|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Josh Allen, Wyoming
How sound is the shoulder? Allen broke his right (throwing-side) collarbone as a high school sophomore and again as a Cowboys freshman in 2015, when it broke in seven spots and required eight screws and a plate to fix surgically. Then, this past November, Allen suffered an AC joint sprain in his right shoulder that sidelined him for two games. "From that one surgery, he's got a whole bunch of staples in there," one college scouting director said. "So I think everybody's going to take a look [at the combine], MRI him and see what the structure is and see how he's feeling." Said an NFC scout: "That's what everyone's going to poke and prod at, is his shoulders and make sure everything's right." One person close to Allen told me he's pain-free, and he certainly looked healthy during an impressive showing at the Senior Bowl. But it's a QB's throwing shoulder, so teams will gather all the info they can.
Can the mechanics keep improving? Allen probably has the biggest arm in this draft and figures to impress in testing. (Word is he could run the 40-yard dash in the mid-4.6-second range at almost 6-foot-5 and 237 pounds.) But his accuracy remains a concern, even for scouts who point out all the drops that contributed to Allen completing just 56.2 percent of his college pass attempts. There were signs of progress at the Senior Bowl. "I thought his feet were under him a little bit better and he was a little bit more balanced," an NFC executive said. "He's been working with a guru (Jordan Palmer), and I think it helped." Allen's base is one primary area of focus. One NFC scout said Allen often misses high because he's overstepping 4 to 6 inches, then will overcorrect, understep and miss behind. Carrying over what he showed in Mobile would be a good sign as he tries to overcome inconsistent tape. "He's super talented. He's got the best arm I've ever scouted. But I have no idea if he knows what he's doing on the field," an AFC scout said. "He's a great kid, too. He's tough. He's not Carson Wentz, but he's got good intangibles. He kind of scares me the most of all of them, because I haven't seen the improvement from one year to the next."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,292
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,292 |
Don't want an inaccurate QB.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Neither do I. He is even more inaccurate than Lamar. Don't want either.
Also, it's kinda weird that we keep hearing about Rosen's injuries, but no one is talking about Allen's. Shoot, Allen's injuries seem a lot more severe than Rosen's. Wonder what's going on?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,129
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,129 |
Right you are, I had no idea Allen had SEVERE collarbone break, lots of screws....Rosen and his concussions scare me more, BUT our doctor has got to have huge say on whether this guy is even draftable....GO Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
the idiots wish to sell the 2018 draft.if they tell all the Browns are taking Allen. That leaves the real QB prospects. Rosen,
Darnold, Mayfield still available for the Giants. Also could bring in Jets for draft suugestion for QB for Barkley. See if the Browns are dumb asses taking Allen with the #1 pick that leaves great stories for others n they get written about. These guys always give us the dumb pick. I aint buying. What was the dumb pick they had us taking last year???
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
I think Allen is going to be just fine in the NFL ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Something I heard on the radio yesterday, and was able to confirm. Josh Allen was not 1st team QB in the Mountain West last season. And he was not 2nd team QB in the Mountain West last year. He was honorable mention. So the #3 QB in the Mountain West conference is in discussion for the first pick in the NFL draft? link
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891 |
Just hearing about the severity of the shoulder issues. Knew he was injured this year but that was it. Heard this year it was a sprained AC joint. The other injury history I didn’t know, in the process of trying to find more info.
Last edited by dean_fairchild; 02/28/18 09:37 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806 |
Also, it's kinda weird that we keep hearing about Rosen's injuries, but no one is talking about Allen's. Shoot, Allen's injuries seem a lot more severe than Rosen's. Wonder what's going on?
I think what is going on is that most members of this board (myself included) had no idea about Allen's injury history. As for the media, they are always behind. I am pretty sure we were discussing Rosen's concussions well before it became a popular topic with the media. Thirdly, with Rosen the injuries are his biggest question. With Allen, his accuracy is his #1 question and the injuries are #2. If he shows much improved accuracy at the combine then the injuries will become an issue. JMO
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Here is what I said on 12/8/2017: Allen is oozing with first round talent. I can't wait to see what he runs in the 40, he is every bit as mobile as Mayfield and he's 6'5 230. He has a plus arm and is tough to bring down in the pocket.
Some team is going to fall in love with this kid. He has an outstanding physical skillset. Still remains true, almost all of the knocks I had on Carson Wentz I have on Allen, accuracy issues, competition. All of the same positives as well, Athleticism, big arm, strong, weak talent around them. It's a really odd year because you have carbon copy players in Rosen/Goff and Wentz/Allen, they are very similar prospects in so many ways.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
All this talk about Josh Allen going to us and only us.
Is Hog wash. Oh he has everythingas a QB..."EXCEPT FOR ACCURACY"
But Hue says accuracy is a priority. Dorsey states accuracy is a priority. We are going to draft a QB overall #1 just hairs away in talent from Kizer that we came away with having everything "EXCEPT FOR ACCURACY" Yep, yep thats the ticket.
Sashi Brown got fired for waiting n taking A Kizer as their franchise QB. Yep Um sure thats what Dorsey is planning on doing. Cause he wants to get fired.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Josh Allen is a lot more mobile than Baker Mayfield.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
I know Im missing something in this discussion but so what... there is prosaic era separating themselves from accuracy.
??? Nurses are wondering why Im shaking my head.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041 |
Still remains true, almost all of the knocks I had on Carson Wentz I have on Allen, accuracy issues, competition.
All of the same positives as well, Athleticism, big arm, strong, weak talent around them.
It's a really odd year because you have carbon copy players in Rosen/Goff and Wentz/Allen, they are very similar prospects in so many ways. Wentz and Allen are similar but for me Wentz was a much more efficient, productive and from an accuracy standpoint Wentz was much better then Allen. But, Wentz did have a better team around him. Rosen/Goff I think Goff is much more nimble and makes more plays outside the structure of the offense. But Goff was coming from a spread and you couldn't see the pro-style nuances that Rosen displays.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Here is what I said on 12/8/2017: Allen is oozing with first round talent. I can't wait to see what he runs in the 40, he is every bit as mobile as Mayfield and he's 6'5 230. He has a plus arm and is tough to bring down in the pocket.
Some team is going to fall in love with this kid. He has an outstanding physical skillset. Still remains true, almost all of the knocks I had on Carson Wentz I have on Allen, accuracy issues, competition. All of the same positives as well, Athleticism, big arm, strong, weak talent around them. It's a really odd year because you have carbon copy players in Rosen/Goff and Wentz/Allen, they are very similar prospects in so many ways. You didn't think Wentz was accurate in college? I don't know, bro...........I think he was far more accurate than Allen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Here is what I said on 12/8/2017: Allen is oozing with first round talent. I can't wait to see what he runs in the 40, he is every bit as mobile as Mayfield and he's 6'5 230. He has a plus arm and is tough to bring down in the pocket.
Some team is going to fall in love with this kid. He has an outstanding physical skillset. Still remains true, almost all of the knocks I had on Carson Wentz I have on Allen, accuracy issues, competition. All of the same positives as well, Athleticism, big arm, strong, weak talent around them. It's a really odd year because you have carbon copy players in Rosen/Goff and Wentz/Allen, they are very similar prospects in so many ways. You didn't think Wentz was accurate in college? I don't know, bro...........I think he was far more accurate than Allen. Wentz missed a lot of downfield throws, ball placement was a concern for sure. I think you're right but to what degree I am unsure, both had/have accuracy concerns in my estimation. I would agree that Allen misses more than Wentz did. I would not take Allen at 1, he's probably the 3rd or 4th QB I would take because of his accuracy issues.....but I also didn't believe in Wentz. I reflect on Wentz a lot, did I miss something? Then I see what Nick Foles did and I am even more confused. Is that staff in Philly just that special? Did I under rate the philly playmakers? etc.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I was wrong on Wentz, too. I did not want us to draft him w/the second overall pick.
I thought he had some big question marks:
1. He didn't play in many games.
2. Level of competition.
3. His processing looked slow to me at times which resulted into him locking onto some receivers.
I moved him all around my board that year. I ended up placing him in the middle of the first round. I was wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 |
I wouldn't be disappointed if we take Allen but I think we could get him @ 4 or even #6 if we trade down ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
Allen's arm is extremely intriguing. He's got a quick release. He's perfect size. He's got good mobility. With some time and the right QB coach, he could be pretty impressive. He brings a lot to the table.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,311 |
Yes he does.
If he ever gets his footwork under control and consistent (overstrider), he can be the best QB in this draft. I have said it before, do not sleep on Allen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
I would not draft Allen until the 3rd or 4th round. I just dont get the top 5 talk with this kid. Shoulder problem and accuracy problems. I think he falls big time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,311 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
Allen's arm is extremely intriguing. He's got a quick release. He's perfect size. He's got good mobility. With some time and the right QB coach, he could be pretty impressive. He brings a lot to the table. And how do we fix his CONSISTENT INNACCURACY? PFF must have the answer. Jeezuz H. Damn.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
Allen's arm is extremely intriguing. He's got a quick release. He's perfect size. He's got good mobility. With some time and the right QB coach, he could be pretty impressive. He brings a lot to the table. And how do we fix his CONSISTENT INNACCURACY? PFF must have the answer. Jeezuz H. Damn. Anyone that watches tape can tell the difference between sporadically inaccurate and consistently inaccurate. Fix his feet and you'll improve his accuracy. BTW the same thing would have applied to Kizer, but everyone was hell bent on starting him right away to "see what we got". Those same QB experts are wanting to throw him in the trash right now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Except that Kizer's footwork really did improve from college. A lot. However, his accuracy did not.
I am not a fan of inaccurate qbs on any level. I also don't like guys who can't read coverages.
I am not trying to convince you or anyone of not liking Allen. We all have our opinions. I am simply expressing my opinion that I do not want the Browns to draft yet another huge project at QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
In some ways yes his footwork did improve, but he still had a problem with over-striding and actually setting his feet.
Toward the end of the season, Kizer was willing to throw the ball anywhere to get it out of his hands. A huge sign that he was overwhelmed. That wasn't being inaccurate, that was total panic.
I'd be okay if we drafted a project QB, if we have a guy we are comfortable starting while we do the work on him. If we are looking to throw someone in the fray right away, Allen isn't the guy I'd be looking at first. He has the highest ceiling in the draft in my opinion, but he's very far from being a week one starter.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
You and I were the two most outspoken posters regarding starting Kizer right away. I agree w/you that being overwhelmed probably led to bad throws. How could it not? I do think he is an inaccurate thrower, though.
I really haven't watched a ton of Allen, so I am not the best source to be critiquing him. I didn't like his accuracy, mechanics, and decision making when I did watch him. But, who knows what will happen down the line...........Not even the NFL guys know for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
Oh he's still inaccurate, but he's also far from a finished product. I'm really hoping he works hard this off season and gives the coach something to think about when he picks a starter.
When you watch tape on Allen, look at the really awesome throws and then rewind and watch his mechanics on just those plays. Then look at one of his poor throws and look at his mechanics. (particularly his feet)
He throws laser beams when his mechanics are good and the junk happens when his feet are all over the place. That's a pretty good sign that a QB coach can fix him, but some guys take longer to learn than others and you don't know which is the case with him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
my exact thoughts.
Wentz was way more accurate. I just dont understand this. Oh hes great at everything except for one thing. His accuraccy. Like that is just a minor thing...ummm guys Accuracy is the most important thing. It also seems like the needed virtue that cannot be easily improved upon n we are going to take this QB really? Ya think this is who we take? Im reading now mock after mock that is who we take leaving all the real prospects for other teams. Smh
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Don't let the mock drafts get to you, tab. They want clicks and they'll change over time. It's all good, my man. Stay strong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,188 |
This is the first time I have heard about what sounds like a serious shoulder injury.
But physicals and interviews are what the Combine are really about. Maybe the 40 for some positions.
Medical verification is extremely important. If that shoulder injury is a perceived problem; Allen will fall like a rock.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,351
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,351 |
For us, IMO, it still comes down to Rosen or Darnold. That is whom I feel we will be picking as our future QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554 |
Mocks are fun to look at, but at this point it is all BS. The only draft that counts is the one Dorsey conducts in a month and a half.
As we get closer to the real draft, some of these mocks might reflect a little closer to the real deal....especially the top picks....those are a little easier to pin down.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 188
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 188 |
It’s hard enough to stay healthy in the NFL I don’t think you should take a chanc on one that is damaged goods. When they see his X-rays at the Combine he may really drop in the draft.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Allen is a guy I really like, I wouldn't take him at #1, but he is probably my favorite QB in this draft because I think he has the most raw god given talent.
In an ideal world we:
1. Sign McCarron/Cousins
2. Take Barkley at 1
3. Take Allen at 4
Then we get a coach with a backbone who tell the media under no circumstances will Allen play this year..if McCarron gets hurt, Kizer will play, if Kizer goes down, you bring in a guy off waivers(this is what Bellichik would do) and we simply red shirt Allen this year.
Allen is a guy with a lot of talent, what he needs is pateince, time, and coaching. He is a project much like Kizer, Hell I think 2 years down the road Kizer is going to suprise a lot of people...the kid has talent, he just needs a guy like Haley to work with him for a year or two while he sits...I see Allen the same way.,
if the Browns approach this right with Allen, and are willing to take it on the chin to actually develop this kid the right way, I think the sky is limit for Allen.
All the Qb's coming out have questions, but I think Allen has the most God Given talent and thats why i would take him...none of these guys are ready to start day one(not even Rosen, thats hogwash) Allen has the potential if developed right to be the best of the bunch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,311 |
Right - when Brady was suspended and Garropolo got hurt in the second game, who did Belli start the next 2 weeks - hmmm - I think it was Jacoby Brissett, who they drafted that year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
Hogwash my Ass.
ROSEN'S got almost PERFECT Mechanics.
He's Day ONE ready. He ain't gonna learn [censored] about NFL Defenses or the speed of the game picking Splinter's outta his ass. GMAFB
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Hogwash my Ass.
ROSEN'S got almost PERFECT Mechanics.
He's Day ONE ready. He ain't gonna learn [censored] about NFL Defenses or the speed of the game picking Splinter's outta his ass. GMAFB One of the things I appreciate about your posts is that I never have to read between the lines.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Hogwash my Ass.
ROSEN'S got almost PERFECT Mechanics.
He's Day ONE ready. He ain't gonna learn [censored] about NFL Defenses or the speed of the game picking Splinter's outta his ass. GMAFB One of the things I appreciate about your posts is that I never have to read between the lines. He reminds me of someone ... hmmmm ... who could that be ... *LOL* ...
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Allen
|
|
