How sound is the shoulder? Allen broke his right (throwing-side) collarbone as a high school sophomore and again as a Cowboys freshman in 2015, when it broke in seven spots and required eight screws and a plate to fix surgically. Then, this past November, Allen suffered an AC joint sprain in his right shoulder that sidelined him for two games. "From that one surgery, he's got a whole bunch of staples in there," one college scouting director said. "So I think everybody's going to take a look [at the combine], MRI him and see what the structure is and see how he's feeling." Said an NFC scout: "That's what everyone's going to poke and prod at, is his shoulders and make sure everything's right." One person close to Allen told me he's pain-free, and he certainly looked healthy during an impressive showing at the Senior Bowl. But it's a QB's throwing shoulder, so teams will gather all the info they can.
Can the mechanics keep improving? Allen probably has the biggest arm in this draft and figures to impress in testing. (Word is he could run the 40-yard dash in the mid-4.6-second range at almost 6-foot-5 and 237 pounds.) But his accuracy remains a concern, even for scouts who point out all the drops that contributed to Allen completing just 56.2 percent of his college pass attempts. There were signs of progress at the Senior Bowl. "I thought his feet were under him a little bit better and he was a little bit more balanced," an NFC executive said. "He's been working with a guru (Jordan Palmer), and I think it helped." Allen's base is one primary area of focus. One NFC scout said Allen often misses high because he's overstepping 4 to 6 inches, then will overcorrect, understep and miss behind. Carrying over what he showed in Mobile would be a good sign as he tries to overcome inconsistent tape. "He's super talented. He's got the best arm I've ever scouted. But I have no idea if he knows what he's doing on the field," an AFC scout said. "He's a great kid, too. He's tough. He's not Carson Wentz, but he's got good intangibles. He kind of scares me the most of all of them, because I haven't seen the improvement from one year to the next."
Neither do I. He is even more inaccurate than Lamar. Don't want either.
Also, it's kinda weird that we keep hearing about Rosen's injuries, but no one is talking about Allen's. Shoot, Allen's injuries seem a lot more severe than Rosen's. Wonder what's going on?
Right you are, I had no idea Allen had SEVERE collarbone break, lots of screws....Rosen and his concussions scare me more, BUT our doctor has got to have huge say on whether this guy is even draftable....GO Browns!!!
the idiots wish to sell the 2018 draft.if they tell all the Browns are taking Allen. That leaves the real QB prospects. Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield still available for the Giants. Also could bring in Jets for draft suugestion for QB for Barkley. See if the Browns are dumb asses taking Allen with the #1 pick that leaves great stories for others n they get written about. These guys always give us the dumb pick. I aint buying. What was the dumb pick they had us taking last year???
Just hearing about the severity of the shoulder issues. Knew he was injured this year but that was it. Heard this year it was a sprained AC joint. The other injury history I didn’t know, in the process of trying to find more info.
Also, it's kinda weird that we keep hearing about Rosen's injuries, but no one is talking about Allen's. Shoot, Allen's injuries seem a lot more severe than Rosen's. Wonder what's going on?
I think what is going on is that most members of this board (myself included) had no idea about Allen's injury history.
As for the media, they are always behind. I am pretty sure we were discussing Rosen's concussions well before it became a popular topic with the media.
Thirdly, with Rosen the injuries are his biggest question. With Allen, his accuracy is his #1 question and the injuries are #2. If he shows much improved accuracy at the combine then the injuries will become an issue.
Allen is oozing with first round talent. I can't wait to see what he runs in the 40, he is every bit as mobile as Mayfield and he's 6'5 230. He has a plus arm and is tough to bring down in the pocket.
Some team is going to fall in love with this kid. He has an outstanding physical skillset.
Still remains true, almost all of the knocks I had on Carson Wentz I have on Allen, accuracy issues, competition.
All of the same positives as well, Athleticism, big arm, strong, weak talent around them.
It's a really odd year because you have carbon copy players in Rosen/Goff and Wentz/Allen, they are very similar prospects in so many ways.
All this talk about Josh Allen going to us and only us. Is Hog wash. Oh he has everythingas a QB..."EXCEPT FOR ACCURACY" But Hue says accuracy is a priority. Dorsey states accuracy is a priority. We are going to draft a QB overall #1 just hairs away in talent from Kizer that we came away with having everything "EXCEPT FOR ACCURACY" Yep, yep thats the ticket.
Sashi Brown got fired for waiting n taking A Kizer as their franchise QB. Yep Um sure thats what Dorsey is planning on doing. Cause he wants to get fired.
I know Im missing something in this discussion but so what... there is prosaic era separating themselves from accuracy. ??? Nurses are wondering why Im shaking my head.
Still remains true, almost all of the knocks I had on Carson Wentz I have on Allen, accuracy issues, competition.
All of the same positives as well, Athleticism, big arm, strong, weak talent around them.
It's a really odd year because you have carbon copy players in Rosen/Goff and Wentz/Allen, they are very similar prospects in so many ways.
Wentz and Allen are similar but for me Wentz was a much more efficient, productive and from an accuracy standpoint Wentz was much better then Allen. But, Wentz did have a better team around him.
Rosen/Goff I think Goff is much more nimble and makes more plays outside the structure of the offense. But Goff was coming from a spread and you couldn't see the pro-style nuances that Rosen displays.
Allen is oozing with first round talent. I can't wait to see what he runs in the 40, he is every bit as mobile as Mayfield and he's 6'5 230. He has a plus arm and is tough to bring down in the pocket.
Some team is going to fall in love with this kid. He has an outstanding physical skillset.
Still remains true, almost all of the knocks I had on Carson Wentz I have on Allen, accuracy issues, competition.
All of the same positives as well, Athleticism, big arm, strong, weak talent around them.
It's a really odd year because you have carbon copy players in Rosen/Goff and Wentz/Allen, they are very similar prospects in so many ways.
You didn't think Wentz was accurate in college? I don't know, bro...........I think he was far more accurate than Allen.
Allen is oozing with first round talent. I can't wait to see what he runs in the 40, he is every bit as mobile as Mayfield and he's 6'5 230. He has a plus arm and is tough to bring down in the pocket.
Some team is going to fall in love with this kid. He has an outstanding physical skillset.
Still remains true, almost all of the knocks I had on Carson Wentz I have on Allen, accuracy issues, competition.
All of the same positives as well, Athleticism, big arm, strong, weak talent around them.
It's a really odd year because you have carbon copy players in Rosen/Goff and Wentz/Allen, they are very similar prospects in so many ways.
You didn't think Wentz was accurate in college? I don't know, bro...........I think he was far more accurate than Allen.
Wentz missed a lot of downfield throws, ball placement was a concern for sure. I think you're right but to what degree I am unsure, both had/have accuracy concerns in my estimation. I would agree that Allen misses more than Wentz did. I would not take Allen at 1, he's probably the 3rd or 4th QB I would take because of his accuracy issues.....but I also didn't believe in Wentz.
I reflect on Wentz a lot, did I miss something? Then I see what Nick Foles did and I am even more confused. Is that staff in Philly just that special? Did I under rate the philly playmakers? etc.
I was wrong on Wentz, too. I did not want us to draft him w/the second overall pick.
I thought he had some big question marks:
1. He didn't play in many games. 2. Level of competition. 3. His processing looked slow to me at times which resulted into him locking onto some receivers.
I moved him all around my board that year. I ended up placing him in the middle of the first round. I was wrong.
Allen's arm is extremely intriguing. He's got a quick release. He's perfect size. He's got good mobility. With some time and the right QB coach, he could be pretty impressive. He brings a lot to the table.
If he ever gets his footwork under control and consistent (overstrider), he can be the best QB in this draft. I have said it before, do not sleep on Allen.
I would not draft Allen until the 3rd or 4th round. I just dont get the top 5 talk with this kid. Shoulder problem and accuracy problems. I think he falls big time.
Allen's arm is extremely intriguing. He's got a quick release. He's perfect size. He's got good mobility. With some time and the right QB coach, he could be pretty impressive. He brings a lot to the table.
Allen's arm is extremely intriguing. He's got a quick release. He's perfect size. He's got good mobility. With some time and the right QB coach, he could be pretty impressive. He brings a lot to the table.
And how do we fix his CONSISTENT INNACCURACY?
PFF must have the answer.
Jeezuz H. Damn.
Anyone that watches tape can tell the difference between sporadically inaccurate and consistently inaccurate. Fix his feet and you'll improve his accuracy. BTW the same thing would have applied to Kizer, but everyone was hell bent on starting him right away to "see what we got". Those same QB experts are wanting to throw him in the trash right now.
Except that Kizer's footwork really did improve from college. A lot. However, his accuracy did not.
I am not a fan of inaccurate qbs on any level. I also don't like guys who can't read coverages.
I am not trying to convince you or anyone of not liking Allen. We all have our opinions. I am simply expressing my opinion that I do not want the Browns to draft yet another huge project at QB.
In some ways yes his footwork did improve, but he still had a problem with over-striding and actually setting his feet.
Toward the end of the season, Kizer was willing to throw the ball anywhere to get it out of his hands. A huge sign that he was overwhelmed. That wasn't being inaccurate, that was total panic.
I'd be okay if we drafted a project QB, if we have a guy we are comfortable starting while we do the work on him. If we are looking to throw someone in the fray right away, Allen isn't the guy I'd be looking at first. He has the highest ceiling in the draft in my opinion, but he's very far from being a week one starter.
You and I were the two most outspoken posters regarding starting Kizer right away. I agree w/you that being overwhelmed probably led to bad throws. How could it not? I do think he is an inaccurate thrower, though.
I really haven't watched a ton of Allen, so I am not the best source to be critiquing him. I didn't like his accuracy, mechanics, and decision making when I did watch him. But, who knows what will happen down the line...........Not even the NFL guys know for sure.
Oh he's still inaccurate, but he's also far from a finished product. I'm really hoping he works hard this off season and gives the coach something to think about when he picks a starter.
When you watch tape on Allen, look at the really awesome throws and then rewind and watch his mechanics on just those plays. Then look at one of his poor throws and look at his mechanics. (particularly his feet)
He throws laser beams when his mechanics are good and the junk happens when his feet are all over the place. That's a pretty good sign that a QB coach can fix him, but some guys take longer to learn than others and you don't know which is the case with him.
my exact thoughts. Wentz was way more accurate. I just dont understand this. Oh hes great at everything except for one thing. His accuraccy. Like that is just a minor thing...ummm guys Accuracy is the most important thing. It also seems like the needed virtue that cannot be easily improved upon n we are going to take this QB really? Ya think this is who we take? Im reading now mock after mock that is who we take leaving all the real prospects for other teams. Smh
Mocks are fun to look at, but at this point it is all BS. The only draft that counts is the one Dorsey conducts in a month and a half.
As we get closer to the real draft, some of these mocks might reflect a little closer to the real deal....especially the top picks....those are a little easier to pin down.
It’s hard enough to stay healthy in the NFL I don’t think you should take a chanc on one that is damaged goods. When they see his X-rays at the Combine he may really drop in the draft.
Allen is a guy I really like, I wouldn't take him at #1, but he is probably my favorite QB in this draft because I think he has the most raw god given talent.
In an ideal world we:
1. Sign McCarron/Cousins 2. Take Barkley at 1 3. Take Allen at 4
Then we get a coach with a backbone who tell the media under no circumstances will Allen play this year..if McCarron gets hurt, Kizer will play, if Kizer goes down, you bring in a guy off waivers(this is what Bellichik would do) and we simply red shirt Allen this year.
Allen is a guy with a lot of talent, what he needs is pateince, time, and coaching. He is a project much like Kizer, Hell I think 2 years down the road Kizer is going to suprise a lot of people...the kid has talent, he just needs a guy like Haley to work with him for a year or two while he sits...I see Allen the same way.,
if the Browns approach this right with Allen, and are willing to take it on the chin to actually develop this kid the right way, I think the sky is limit for Allen.
All the Qb's coming out have questions, but I think Allen has the most God Given talent and thats why i would take him...none of these guys are ready to start day one(not even Rosen, thats hogwash) Allen has the potential if developed right to be the best of the bunch.
Right - when Brady was suspended and Garropolo got hurt in the second game, who did Belli start the next 2 weeks - hmmm - I think it was Jacoby Brissett, who they drafted that year.
If sports performance coach Ryan Flaherty is to be believed, Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen is going to turn plenty of heads at the NFL Scouting Combine.
"Josh Allen has one of the most incredibly gifted arms I've seen in my life and I've been around a lot of quarterbacks," Flaherty said on NFL Network on Thursday (via Michael David Smith of Pro Football Talk). "He'll break the record miles per hour here at the combine. He’ll go high 60s. I think the record’s 66 or something. I think he’ll go 69, 70 miles an hour. And just wait until his Pro Day. He’ll throw the ball 89 or 90 yards."
With that velocity, he'll break DBs arms when he's throwing interceptions. What's with all this love for an inaccurate QB?
I agree a zillion percent. Plus we already have an inaccurate QB in Deshone Kizer.
Not-to-mention:
Josh Allen, Wyoming:
How sound is the shoulder? Allen broke his right (throwing-side) collarbone as a high school sophomore and again as a Cowboys freshman in 2015, when it broke in seven spots and required eight screws and a plate to fix surgically. Then, this past November, Allen suffered an AC joint sprain in his right shoulder that sidelined him for two games. "From that one surgery, he's got a whole bunch of staples in there," one college scouting director said. "So I think everybody's going to take a look [at the combine], MRI him and see what the structure is and see how he's feeling." Said an NFC scout: "That's what everyone's going to poke and prod at, is his shoulders and make sure everything's right." One person close to Allen told me he's pain-free, and he certainly looked healthy during an impressive showing at the Senior Bowl. But it's a QB's throwing shoulder, so teams will gather all the info they can.
Opinion: Allen is going to be a very successful QB in the NFL . Some of you just kill me with the " My guy or the Highway crap " I truly believe there will be several out of this Class that ex-cell at the next level .
Opinion: Allen is going to be a very successful QB in the NFL . Some of you just kill me with the " My guy or the Highway crap " I truly believe there will be several out of this Class that ex-cell at the next level .
I agree. Some people seem to have their heels dug in. I try to keep a open mind. At this point I don't know who I want or who the Browns should take.
I agree on the QB's, I think there are 3-4 at the top who are about the same. Each brings something a little different.
There are some other QB's I would be very happy with if things were different and we whet QB shopping in round 2 or later..
Mason Rudolph, Riley Feurgson, Luke Faulk are three that I like.
Opinion: Allen is going to be a very successful QB in the NFL . Some of you just kill me with the " My guy or the Highway crap " I truly believe there will be several out of this Class that ex-cell at the next level .
Well with me its not been my guy or the highway...Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield anyone they pick.
Note, no Allen, not because if my way or the highway. I want our QB to be accurate...of which is not a virtue of Allen! Look at film of his deep out. That is what will keep him off our list of QBs at #1 Jmho
If you want to get into it , bring it on . I don't have the time to post as much as I use to ; so if I get the boot , I'll survive !
You sir are the Classic example of the " Pot calling the Kettle Black " ( old Spanish proverb ) . I routinely go out of my way not to respond to your posts directly . I can only remember a couple of negative responses over the last few months & non of those directed at you . Think I owe Devicedawg an apology for popping off .
You , of course have the right to your opinion . Unfortunately YOU seem to think that it is a one way street at times .
Don't like what I post ; don't respond to it .. Thats kinda how I TREAT the vast majority of your writings !
No prob Eo . I have spent the last two years watching him and his team .. I have watched him grow / regress and mature at times . I believe ( solo my opinion ) that he has some of the best upside of any in the draft . I also like White and Furgeson .. I am not in the main stream .. lol
If you can watch the second have of the Senior Bowl , do . Watch what happens when he petitions the Coach to put him back in , and having a talk with himself also .
If I want Mayfield we can take Barkley#1 then Mayfield at 4.
This I don't get. How do you know that the Giants don't take Mayfield or the Colts don't trade down or take Mayfield?
QB has to be number 1. If Barkley falls to us at 4, great, otherwise, move on.
The guy's a really good player, but these quarterbacks this year are better than last year's crop. Identify our guy, pick him.
QB is the biggest impact player we can get. Let's choose the one we want most, we haven't done that since Tim Couch. No excuses for why the QB fails, we have our choice, pick the best
1. Barkely 2. Rosen 3. Darnold 4. Mayfield 5. Allen
If we were stupid enough to pass on a quarterback at #1 and Rosen and Darnold came off the board before we picked at 4 I would certainly take Allen before I took Mayfield.
I admit being an Allen fan .. I believe that there are several QB's in this draft that will succeed at a high level in the NFL .. I believe that most of us have a favorite and become nit-picky about the other four or so in this class.. I plead guilty .. I have been finding faults with Rosen , Darnold , Mayfield , ect , ect ..
With that velocity, he'll break DBs arms when he's throwing interceptions. What's with all this love for an inaccurate QB?
LOL What's with "What's with all this love for an inaccurate QB?". I can marvel at a Ferrari as well... not real practical, can't really afford it, but it's still an incredible work of engineering. Josh Allen is a freak, doesn't mean I think we should draft him. Are there other QBs as gifted physically? Absolutely NOT.
I'd like Josh Allen better if they didn't show his "know my name" spot every commercial break.
He's a project with a big arm. I don't think we need another project. Yes, he has the nebulous "upside," but I don't think this fan base/organization has much (any) patience at this point.
He has better work ethic than Jamarcus Russell, but I'm not sure he's that far ahead of him from a mental/processing standpoint. I think he will progress in that area, but he's a decent bit behind the other guys.
Josh Rosen is almost perfect in his mechanics. It is amazing how he gets over his base on almost every throw. If Allen had Rosen's mechanics, people might be talking about him as a definite #1 overall.
Did anyone see Allen throw a bad pass today? Everything I saw was crisp and on point.
I saw Rosen bounce a slant pass.
Allen definitely improved perceptions and maybe draft stock. Darnold not throwing didn't help. Mayfield was a bit off...deep ball was underthrown and a couple of the mid-field passes were behind. Rosen's deep ball was beautiful. His shorter throws to the right side line were way off.
Here is how I would rank everyone today based on the throwing drills I saw.
1. Allen 2. Rosen / Mayfield
Guys who didn't really impress me today were Rudolph and Jackson.
Darnold loses out a bit too since he didn't throw ( also ran the slowest 40 out of the top prospects).
I was underwhelmed by Mayfield. Allen was definitely #1 for me, Rosen's beautiful deep ball (x3) put him #2 for me and Mayfield #3. Then Jackson. Of the other guys I thought White and Lauletta were more impressive than Rudolph, who I was a bit disappointed with. Lauletta, however, kinda seems like Kessler pt2.
BpG, I agree that Allen is similar to Wentz and Rosen to Goff. I would take Allen #1 overall. I believe he is an AFC North type of QB. The other QB's in the draft do not fit what I believe is needed in an AFC North QB, Size, Arm, ability to make a play when needed. I watched the Allen Senior Bowl second half performance. He showed he can make the reads, the throws and score points. That is what is needed for a Cleveland Browns QB.
I just moved Allen ahead of Rosen. He supposedly has a great attitude, and man, what a freak! No interest in Darnold. My dream scenario is to get him and Barkley. Watching the combine is great!
Josh Rosen is almost perfect in his mechanics. It is amazing how he gets over his base on almost every throw. If Allen had Rosen's mechanics, people might be talking about him as a definite #1 overall.
Might be? He'd be the most exciting prospect in a long time.
Unfortunately it's the Browns luck that the 2 years they have the #1 there's no clear #1 like there is almost every other year... then again at least it's not Jamarcus Russel or Blake Bortles, so count our blessings I guess haha
I just moved Allen ahead of Rosen. He supposedly has a great attitude, and man, what a freak! No interest in Darnold. My dream scenario is to get him and Barkley. Watching the combine is great!
I don't think it's a good idea to place so much importance on the Combine and to ignore actual game reps.
Oddly enough the QB that looked least accurate to me on tape (Allen) I thought by far threw the ball the best at combine from both an arm strength, footwork and ball placement.
Allen looked confident in drop and just let the ball rip. Dude has a hose. His ball placement was more consistent then the others and he didn't have any really wild misses that I saw. It makes sense that he looked good though...the combine throwing sessions are based on 3-5-7 step drops and Allen comes from that type of offense.
But, again on tape Allen was the least accurate of this class.
Oddly enough the QB that looked least accurate to me on tape (Allen) I thought by far threw the ball the best at combine from both an arm strength, footwork and ball placement.
Allen looked confident in drop and just let the ball rip. Dude has a hose. His ball placement was more consistent then the others and he didn't have any really wild misses that I saw. It makes sense that he looked good though...the combine throwing sessions are based on 3-5-7 step drops and Allen comes from that type of offense.
But, again on tape Allen was the least accurate of this class.
This is probably going to sound wrong, but I think Allen looked the best because he is the most used to not thinking and just letting it rip. That's great in a pitch and catch situation. Less so when defenders are involved. He is talented enough to get away with it a lot of the time in college. I'm not so sure in the big leagues.
Oddly enough the QB that looked least accurate to me on tape (Allen) I thought by far threw the ball the best at combine from both an arm strength, footwork and ball placement.
Allen looked confident in drop and just let the ball rip. Dude has a hose. His ball placement was more consistent then the others and he didn't have any really wild misses that I saw. It makes sense that he looked good though...the combine throwing sessions are based on 3-5-7 step drops and Allen comes from that type of offense.
But, again on tape Allen was the least accurate of this class.
This is probably going to sound wrong, but I think Allen looked the best because he is the most used to not thinking and just letting it rip.
I'm not taking anything away from the kid. Whatever the reason; he had the best combine throwing session to my eye.
I wish all the combine QBs would just go out there and sling it.
However this year the no clear #1 is due to equal in excellence not the unworthy variable.
Im all over the place. I think if we take a QB at #1 it will be Rosen.
If we take Barkley #1 we will get Mayfield. Possibly Allen if he can prove that his inaccuracy can n has been fixed. I am souring on Darnold but we still have many days to pass.
I am curious on one thing I hope a poster can provide a list. That is of who is the agent of these QBs are? It means a lot cause after all this and we are successful I dont wish to lose our QB from their 2nd contract.
There is an agent I would stay away from as he handles QBs n screwed us in the past. I cant think of his name but if mentioned I would know him!
hehe I was thinking of Condon...it seemed personal with him. But Rosenhaus will make it tough also why I was hoping for lifetime Browns fans to be our guy...hard to let grand pa down...lol
However this year the no clear #1 is due to equal in excellence not the unworthy variable.
Im all over the place. I think if we take a QB at #1 it will be Rosen.
If we take Barkley #1 we will get Mayfield. Possibly Allen if he can prove that his inaccuracy can n has been fixed. I am souring on Darnold but we still have many days to pass.
I am curious on one thing I hope a poster can provide a list. That is of who is the agent of these QBs are? It means a lot cause after all this and we are successful I dont wish to lose our QB from their 2nd contract.
There is an agent I would stay away from as he handles QBs n screwed us in the past. I cant think of his name but if mentioned I would know him!
I just moved Allen ahead of Rosen. He supposedly has a great attitude, and man, what a freak! No interest in Darnold. My dream scenario is to get him and Barkley. Watching the combine is great!
I don't think it's a good idea to place so much importance on the Combine and to ignore actual game reps.
Gosh Dang it. I hope we're just blowing smoke with this Allen crap.
A PROJECT, an INNACURATE Project with a metal plate, screws and Staples in his throwing shoulder doesn't sound like Top 5 material to me.
I’ll wait and see what Dorsey does, willing to trust what he does more then my own opinion, he’s paid to do this, even if I don’t agree or like the pick. I’ll wait to see how the kid plays whoever it is.
Not a big Prisco fan, but i like what was said about the Whiteboard stuff in regard to Allen as that was my biggest concern with him. The arm talent and athleticism is undeniable and having watched a number of his games, I think the inaccuracy issue is overblown with him as well.
If he's the guy, you're gambling waiting until 4. You don't just have the Giants to worry about, you also have any team with a need at QB who's willing to trade up. I'd love to think we could take Saquon at 1 and still get our QB at four, but can we really take the chance he'll be there? (Whoever it may be.)
Love to take him at #4 , but not willing to chance it !
The kid didn't get the same kind of Coaching playing for Wyoming that some of the other elites did. As you know I have been on the kid for two years now . One of the take a ways form the Senior bowl and combine are going to be his coach ability's.. There is a resone why he is getting a lot of chatter now .He to will leave it all on the field ( lie Mayfield ) I have told folks to go back and watch him in the third quarter in the Senior bowl ..
So u attribute his improvement from the end of the year to the senior bowl to coaching ... then again the appearant jump he took at the combine ... u attribute that to coaching also? ...
Love to take him at #4 , but not willing to chance it !
The kid didn't get the same kind of Coaching playing for Wyoming that some of the other elites did. As you know I have been on the kid for two years now . One of the take a ways form the Senior bowl and combine are going to be his coach ability's.. There is a resone why he is getting a lot of chatter now .He to will leave it all on the field ( lie Mayfield ) I have told folks to go back and watch him in the third quarter in the Senior bowl ..
ONE quarter of football means SQUAT.
You keep harping on this 3rd quarter of the Senior Bowl. I watched it too. Multiple times. And what exactly was I supposed to come away with watching ONE QUARTER of football?
I'm not trying to be mean. But I see a QB from Wyoming, who hasn't played ANYTHING CLOSE to anything even close to what a Rosen or Darnold has played concerning competition. Yeah I know all about Wentz.
I see a QB who is CONSISTENT in INNACURATE throws.
I see a QB that has a STEEL PLATE, SCREWS and STAPLES in his throwing shoulder. Does that not concern you at all?
There is absolutely no way Allen should be drafted in the first round. Any team that does so deserves to be fired IMHO.
Would you take The Red Nosed Reindeer at 4?
I would but I would prefer to trade back since I feel most people underestimate him and it's always a good thing to pick up extra draft picks when you can.
As I said previously though I find it very suspicious that there is so little chatter about him except from the Steelers who are all over him. It's like teams are deliberately trying to keep him from rising so they can have him fall into a range they can draft him while they overhype other QB's to pressure the bad teams at the top of the draft to bite on lesser QB's.
There is absolutely no way Allen should be drafted in the first round. Any team that does so deserves to be fired IMHO.
Would you take The Red Nosed Reindeer at 4?
I would but I would prefer to trade back since I feel most people underestimate him and it's always a good thing to pick up extra draft picks when you can.
As I said previously though I find it very suspicious that there is so little chatter about him except from the Steelers who are all over him. It's like teams are deliberately trying to keep him from rising so they can have him fall into a range they can draft him while they overhype other QB's to pressure the bad teams at the top of the draft to bite on lesser QB's.
Well considering how much teams mess up on drafting a QB I'm not worried about them agreeing or disagreeing with me since my track record is generally better over the past decade
Josh Allen does not scare me as much as he has in the past, this was from me watching him throw at the combine, he looked accurate but there is the film. I seriously doubt he will be a Brown I just wont join the FIRE HIM CREW lolwhich I was in. Im narrowing it down to Rosen and Mayfield now. So Allen climb up from the 4th QB to the ahem 4th QB 😁
Kwhip .. I have tried to explain why the chatter on Allen .. I given you some reasons on his improvement since his last regular season game . Now if your not having any of it fine .. But I believe what I believe .. I have stated that there are several very good choices in this Draft .. If you just prefer that I not post because I might see it Your way , just say so ..lol
Yep .. I have been advocating Ferguson as a late rounder in a two QB draft , which I Have been advocating also . Have made several posts on the subject .I think the kid would be a developmental steal .
Ferguson and White are appealing to me as 2nd QB guys. White would probably cost us a 3rd so that might be too much if we go QB round 1
Yea, he seems to have gained some traction. I don't know that I would want to draft a 2nd QB before round 4. Lets pick up 3-3 other guys to help win before we draft a project QB.
I like Ferguson and Faulk as potential 2nd QB prospects.
I would add 3) Ability to throw a short pass with touch
He does it all the time. He's as good as any QB in the draft with velocity and touch. It's a false narrative based on a few balls that maybe were thrown with too much velocity. All of these guys are human, none of them throw perfect passes every time.
I really like both Rosen and Darnold, and I think both will be pretty safe picks and good QBs...
But I can't get this mental picture of Gordon running a skinny post and Allen rifling him a pass, hitting him in stride before the safety can get there, TD!!!
I get excited thinking about it! I'd be fine with any of those 3 QBs though, just not Mayfield.
The most impressive thing I saw from Allen at the combine was how easily he threw the deep out at the combine. More impressive then the bombs he launched. Those outs looked like he was throwing a 15 yard comeback, effortless power. Even on his deep ball he didn’t like he had to really torque to get it out there. I know his accuracy is a question, and it still is for me. This guys potential is only limited by his his own ability to learn and grow. I noticed he was a little late with his anticipation on his throws but he gets away with it cause he doesn’t need even a fraction of the time to get the ball there. I think that’s something that gets better with time, and experience.
I’m both awed by this kid and concerned at the same time.
I don't think the Wonderlic (as a useful tool) has as much to do with gauging how smart you are as it does to making sure you're not prolifically stupid.
I don't think the Wonderlic (as a useful tool) has as much to do with gauging how smart you are as it does to making sure you're not prolifically stupid.
I think it might not even show that.
I think it just shows how good you are at taking tests.
Dan Marino scored a 16... I'd still take him at QB :-P Blaine Gabbert got a 42.
Looking at a list of QB scores in history I can't really find any kind of correlation with score and success.
I don't think the Wonderlic (as a useful tool) has as much to do with gauging how smart you are as it does to making sure you're not prolifically stupid.
I think it will be important for Lamar.... he comes across very infantile, IMHO, if he scores low it will be a Vince Young reminder...
NFL.com's Kimberly Jones considers Wyoming QB Josh Allen the quarterback who "helped himself the most" at the Combine.
After measuring in at 6-foot-5, 237 pounds, Allen put on a show with his arm and tested well athletically. Allen's arm and athleticism have never really been in question. It's his accuracy that's the issue. For his part, Allen says he's been "working on his footwork and 'toning down' his stride length." It's rare for quarterbacks to truly overhaul their mechanics. Allen is going to be high risk, high reward, likely in the top 10 and perhaps much higher.
I am not bad-mouthing Josh Allen here. I want to be clear about that. But, I have heard several reports that are similar to that one.
I find those odd because I don't think there was ever any question about Allen's arm strength and his athleticism. I think we all knew he would blow people away at the Combine in those two areas.
I think the question remains if he can be accurate in game situations. It's totally different than throwing against air. I put very little importance on the accuracy of qbs at the Combine and Pro Days. I mentioned in another thread that I am far more interested in the guy's footwork and how fast their set-up and release are.
With all the concerns regarding Allen, it seems to boil down to two main concerns.
1) Accuracy ( Which apparently you can't coach ) - Although Allen looked pretty accurate at the senior bowl and at the combine.
and...
2) His ability to read a pro defense.
Whichever QB goes 1,2,3 or 4 this year COULD be determined by Allen's score on the wonderlic.
A couple of things.
--You can improve accuracy to a degree. Fixing a guys lower body will improve his accuracy. However, there are just some guys who are inaccurate.
--Throwing against air w/no rush is not a good test for accuracy.
--The Wonderlic test has no correlation to being able to read post-snap coverages.
That last one.
You don't think Intelligence has anything to do with Processing Information?
Explain, Lucy.
Sorry, I missed this post earlier.
Processing speed is a different type of intelligence than recall, memory, analyzing, and synthesizing.
Those types of intelligence traits really help qbs read the defense pre-snap. They help w/film study, recognizing tendencies, understanding down and distance, where you are at on the field, time on the clock, etc.
Processing speed is a completely different animal.
Oh, and one more thing. I think it's about time the NFL comes up w/a better intelligence test than the Wonderlic. LOL
I hope it does. I know next to nothing about it, but man..........that would be HUGE if it actually works because that has been one of the things that haven't been coachable in the past.
I imagine you can dial up literally ANY situation you want to put your guy in and as many times as you want him to experience it. That's really something that only game experience could give you in the past. May not be exactly like game play but hey...
That vr stuff is COOL AS HELL .... someone said IF it catches on .... NO WAY IT DON’T ...
Like tab said ... its all ready being used for all sorts of military stuff ... they been using some version of it for over 25 years ... my cousin works for GE and worked on this stuff with the military ...
And as technology improves it only gets better ....
Just speculating.. the trade for Taylor makes a Barkley/Allen combination more likely.
Why?
I see people opining that the Browns will take Barkley at #1, and then their choice of QB at 4 .... but what guarantee that their 1st, or even 2nd QBs might not be gone by 4? Why take the chance that 2 teams that want QBs don't trade up to 2 and 3, and take our #1 and #2 options? Why take that chance that the Giants don't take the guy we want at 2?
I suspect that the Colts #3 overall could be in play with the Broncos and/or Jets, just as our 4th overall could be. The best thing that could happen, for us, is for QBs to go 1-3, and not to the Broncos or Jets. Then we could trade down from #4 to either 5 or 6 ..... and add some serious value, while sill getting either Barkley, Chubb, or Fitzpatrick.
Heard one of the Giants beat reporters on the radio. He is convinced that if Darnold is there at #2 then the NYG will take him. If Darnold is gone then they will take Saquan FWIW
Giants believe they can be a playoff team this year. Hell - they were projected to be one last year. Lot of injuries last year hurt their cause and horrible HC. They just traded for a LB which tells me they are not rebuilding for which a QB would most likely be their pick. I believe that they believe Eli is still good enough and with an impact player in the draft (ie. Chubb or Barkley), they can get back to the playoffs.
Following your train of thought ; When will they ever be picking this high in the Draft again ?? You would think thy would go ahead a pull the trigger on their next Franchise QB , NO ?
Not arguing or anything, I live here in New York so watch a lot of the Giants, imo if they don’t fix thier O-line they will be hard pressed to make the playoffs.
Following your train of thought ; When will they ever be picking this high in the Draft again ?? You would think thy would go ahead a pull the trigger on their next Franchise QB , NO ?
Agreed. In the last 3 drafts we have earned the #2, #1, and #1 picks. The plan is we won't be seeing a top 5 pick for several years to come. We won't be having the opportunity to take our choice of QB for the foreseeable future.
We can sit here as fans, and call the top 3-4 QBs roughly equal, but we are not staking our professional reputations on that call, we don't have the microscopic view of these guys, and we don't have the experience of evaluating talent for a living. There are differences between them, and the guys we are trusting to make the decision will have them graded out far more deeply than we do. If they like 1 guy more than the others, and I'm sure they do, they can't afford to pass up this opportunity to pick THEIR quarterback of the future.
Just speculating.. the trade for Taylor makes a Barkley/Allen combination more likely.
I agree with this. With Taylor coming in and the comments being made around us giving him additional $, I'd give him (potentially) the biggest weapon in the draft. We grab a QB at #4 that actually sits behind Taylor for 1(2?) seasons and we have a little less pressure on that QB.
If we take a QB @ 1, we have an immediate QB controversy (especially if the reports are true about us restructuring TT's contract). You don't draft a QB at 1 and sit them on the bench, how does that help our team at all? Maybe next year (the Browns motto).
If our guy is gone at 4 and the Bills haven't already moved up to 3, grabbing both of their 1st rounders wouldn't be a bad deal either (assuming their guy is still there).
March 14th is gonna be a lot more telling once we actually start seeing the contracts of these players we got via trades, obviously moreso TT's. I'll be interested to know how many years Taylor gets for his contract.
The biggest knock on Allen is his accuracy. Some have said that accuracy trends in college tend to carry over into the NFL, implying that Allen will likely not improve. I decided to go here and plug in some names of successful NFL QBs over the years. Here are some of the names followed by their college completion percentage;
Dan Fouts - 50.4% Joe Montana - 52.0% Brett Favre - 52.4% Joe Namath - 54.3% Josh Allen - 56.2% Dan Marino - 57.6%
Completion rates may not be the truest measure of accuracy, but there are some interesting names in the same range as Allen.
(edited to add) I'm not advocating Allen, just making a point that his accuracy issues in college don't automatically mean he can't be good in the NFL.
The biggest knock on Allen is his accuracy. Some have said that accuracy trends in college tend to carry over into the NFL, implying that Allen will likely not improve. I decided to go here and plug in some names of successful NFL QBs over the years. Here are some of the names followed by their college completion percentage;
Dan Fouts - 50.4% Joe Montana - 52.0% Brett Favre - 52.4% Joe Namath - 54.3% Josh Allen - 56.2% Dan Marino - 57.6%
I have liked Allen from the beginning, switched to Darnold then I saw your post and it made me feel pretty good about my first take on Allen ... I would love to see Allen as a Brown with the time to develop a little, if it's Darnold I would be ok with that too ...
I really don't get the whole "take the guy that needs to sit" for a year or two and let him learn behind TT. How do U know TT is the answer already. He hasn't played one game here. Will be in a new system with different players. No know has a CLUE of how it will turn out with him. Maybe he has injury game one.. Then you gonna trot Allen out there ? Or Mayfield ? GMAB. You draft the guy that has the most talent right now and if he beats out your starter, then GOOD.. That's whats SUPPOSE to happen !! I don't want to see Kesler and Allen or Mayfield this year at all. They aren't CLOSE to being ready. When was the last time we had a QB play 16 games ? Plan for the WORST, hope for the best.. Pick your most NFL ready QB at one and be done with it.. If we don't go Rosen at one we are making a HUGE mistake.
It still concerns me that Allen has had the injuries to the shoulder, any news from his medicals at the combine?
I personally don't need to see ANY medical.
I KNOW he's got a throwing shoulder full of Metal, Screws and Staples. I don't give a BM about any medical. I know it's there. Don't waste your time showing me the medical.
The biggest knock on Allen is his accuracy. Some have said that accuracy trends in college tend to carry over into the NFL, implying that Allen will likely not improve. I decided to go here and plug in some names of successful NFL QBs over the years. Here are some of the names followed by their college completion percentage;
Dan Fouts - 50.4% Joe Montana - 52.0% Brett Favre - 52.4% Joe Namath - 54.3% Josh Allen - 56.2% Dan Marino - 57.6%
Completion rates may not be the truest measure of accuracy, but there are some interesting names in the same range as Allen.
(edited to add) I'm not advocating Allen, just making a point that his accuracy issues in college don't automatically mean he can't be good in the NFL.
You can't use those stats because somebody else mentioned Favre's comp pct in college and was told it wasn't a good comparison because it was "too long ago" (1990). If Favre is too long ago, then so are all the others on your list. So is Terry Bradshaw, whom you didn't mention, but was around 50-52% in college. I then mentioned Matt Stafford at 57% in 2007 at Georgia and I was told that one could always find exceptions to any rule and that it didn't diminish the rule. So just forget it, Josh Allen can't be the pick for the Browns because 56% comp pct in college.
.. Every time I make one of those absolute ( sure thing comments )I get burned , lol ..
.. The only absolute in this draft ( in my opinion ) is drafting " A " QB in the first . I have my favorite , but I am no football Guru by any stretch of the imagination ..
.. there are going to quiet a few up-set posters by the time the Draft ends ..lol .. You know , the ones that will never post again !
I'll give you Rosen, but despite your thoughts, Mayfield will be ready to go week 1. I wouldn't trust Allen or Darnold in that position, but the thinking Mayfield will need to sit a few years is just erroneous.
The biggest knock on Allen is his accuracy. Some have said that accuracy trends in college tend to carry over into the NFL, implying that Allen will likely not improve. I decided to go here and plug in some names of successful NFL QBs over the years. Here are some of the names followed by their college completion percentage;
Dan Fouts - 50.4% Joe Montana - 52.0% Brett Favre - 52.4% Joe Namath - 54.3% Josh Allen - 56.2% Matt Stafford - 57.1% Dan Marino - 57.6%
Completion rates may not be the truest measure of accuracy, but there are some interesting names in the same range as Allen.
(edited to add) I'm not advocating Allen, just making a point that his accuracy issues in college don't automatically mean he can't be good in the NFL.
You can't use those stats because somebody else mentioned Favre's comp pct in college and was told it wasn't a good comparison because it was "too long ago" (1990). If Favre is too long ago, then so are all the others on your list. So is Terry Bradshaw, whom you didn't mention, but was around 50-52% in college. I then mentioned Matt Stafford at 57% in 2007 at Georgia and I was told that one could always find exceptions to any rule and that it didn't diminish the rule. So just forget it, Josh Allen can't be the pick for the Browns because 56% comp pct in college.
There, I added Stafford. The site doesn't list Bradshaw. I had originally looked for Unitas and Otto Graham, but they weren't listed either.
The thing is I don't think you look at completion % to judge accuracy.
A lot of things can attribute to completion % that wouldn't necessarily mean he's an inaccurate passer. In that, I think you have to look at the tape and although I'm impressed with his deep ball, I feel his overall accuracy is lacking.
And also with that, many people have said just look at the lack of talent around Allen. However, Billick made a good point when they drafted Kyle Boller. They took the lack of talent into consideration and thought he'd perform better with better talent around him. They were wrong and drafting Boller was a mistake that ultimately got Billick fired.
So because Kyle Boller never got better, the same will hold true for Allen. That's complete BS. A lot of QBs got much better from a completion % standpoint when they reached the NFL. In fact, a number got better just from staying in college for 4 years vs 2 years. In other words, experience matters with regard to such things.
I simply quoted Billick who said they felt the lack of talent around him in college skewed his stats and that he was actually better than his play and stats suggested. Many people have stated here that Allen is being hindered by the talent around him.
The issues with Allen are not just completion percentage.
It is also decision making. In addition it is also anticipation.
Allen like most high caliber arm guys fall back on their arm to make it all happen. They want to see the open and gun it in there. He doesn't anticipate open. He waits for open and often makes poor decisions.
All those factors contribute to completions.
I love Allen's potential. But potential can be a dangerous illusion.
We now have Taylor.
What has to be decided about Allen is will he reach his potential?
That is where evaluation becomes tricky. Because you are betting on how his brain works.
In my opinion as a quarterback today Allen is in fourth place or lower.
Behind Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and maybe Rudolph.
Allen would have to be very convincing in his private workout at Berea. And I mean he would have to show many attributes to move ahead of the pack.
The thing is I don't think you look at completion % to judge accuracy.
A lot of things can attribute to completion % that wouldn't necessarily mean he's an inaccurate passer. In that, I think you have to look at the tape and although I'm impressed with his deep ball, I feel his overall accuracy is lacking.
I agree with this. My only point was that to judge a QB strictly by his comp pct would be a mistake. There are circumstances affecting that stat which are beyond the QB's ability to affect. If some of our QB gurus on this board, or NFL insiders, or experts in the media say he has accuracy issues based on having watched his tape, then I'm fine with it, and I would defer to their judgment. Other than a few highlights, I have not watched Allen play. And surprise-surprise ... he looks really good in his highlight film.
Much of the chatter coming out of the Combine was about the strides Allen had made since the end of the season .. Disclaimer , Allen is my pick .
Did Dorsey draft Mahomes in KC?
I just looked it up. Yes, Dorsey was still the GM in KC when they traded up for Mahomes.
I mention that because Allen kinda gives me a similar feeling as Mahomes. Super high ceiling, just needs a little bit of time to groom, but will still require a high draft pick to get him. Dorsey pulled the trigger on Mahomes (even moreso, traded up), I could see him do something similar in grabbing Allen at 4, now that he has Taylor to weather the storm out of the gate.
The thing is I don't think you look at completion % to judge accuracy.
A lot of things can attribute to completion % that wouldn't necessarily mean he's an inaccurate passer. In that, I think you have to look at the tape and although I'm impressed with his deep ball, I feel his overall accuracy is lacking.
I agree with this. My only point was that to judge a QB strictly by his comp pct would be a mistake. There are circumstances affecting that stat which are beyond the QB's ability to affect. If some of our QB gurus on this board, or NFL insiders, or experts in the media say he has accuracy issues based on having watched his tape, then I'm fine with it, and I would defer to their judgment. Other than a few highlights, I have not watched Allen play. And surprise-surprise ... he looks really good in his highlight film.
I'm just wondering, did you guys read this sentence in my original post?
"Completion rates may not be the truest measure of accuracy, but there are some interesting names in the same range as Allen."
I know what you guys are saying, I said so in my original post. I was just pointing out that, when most of Allen's detractors point to his completion percentage as evidence of inaccuracy, that his completion percentage is in very good company.
Much of the chatter coming out of the Combine was about the strides Allen had made since the end of the season .. Disclaimer , Allen is my pick .
See, I don't get this. It's hard to see much in the way of strides until the bullets start flying and things get uncomfortable for him.
That's how you really know. Because throwing at the combine, and even working out at the combine, is not the same thing as being put in real football situations. You can use it to practice your technique, etc.
But real football is what matters the most. The one, in the games. So it's hard for me to change that much of my opinion about a guy based off the combine, etc.
It's why the film matters the most. Combine can emphasize what you think, but if what you see doesn't show up on the tape, that you're taking a real risk.
So yeah, I really don't trust these "strides" that Allen has made
Man honestly I trust our new think tank. You can make sense for any of the 4 QBs which was 3 Im adding Allen now to the group.
These guys: Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolf., the consultant I forget his name, Haley, Hues, QB coach...we will have A GUY. I will trust that guy. We also have TT to progress as well.
You know what? The first TIME we got the QB position FIXED!
As we inch closer to draft day, this guy is starting to get a lot of "to the Browns at 1" chatter... and I hate it. I hope it's just chatter without any substance. I can't see how this guy can be the #1 overall pick.
As we inch closer to draft day, this guy is starting to get a lot of "to the Browns at 1" chatter... and I hate it. I hope it's just chatter without any substance. I can't see how this guy can be the #1 overall pick.
The 3rd best quarterback of the Mountain West conference can't be the overall #1 pick in the draft?
Yes, he was not 1st or 2nd team conference QB last year. He was honorable mention.
His feet, decision making, which leads to his inaccuracy at times, other times his throws are outstandingly accurate, especially on the run. Problems a lot of QBs have coming out. Watch the two early throws vs Hawaii he made to the opposite hash, ropes that were on the money, perfect throws, both dropped. Those type of throws are what’s gonna get him drafted higher then most want. Whether he deserves it, only time will tell. He’s got a long way to go.
I feel that Josh Allen is the perfect QB for the Cleveland Browns. He is 6'5" 233lbs. In the AFC North, a QB needs to have size to him. I understand people who are apprehensive about Josh Allen's college completion percentages. I would mention that Josh Allen threw the ball down field often in college. His completion percentage suffered a little because of it. I would like to mention that he is a winner. His team was 7-3 in his senior season and won a Bowl game. This cannot be said of Darnold. As a final plug for why I think Josh Allen is the correct QB for the Cleveland Browns, I give you HoF QB John Elway. John Elway did not complete 60% of his passes in the NFL until his 11th season in the league (1993). John Elway had taken his team to playoffs 6 times and had a 7-5 record before he completed 60% of his passes in a NFL season. We have better receivers in Cleveland than Josh Allen had in Wyoming. I believe that building a team to win the AFC North should be the only goal of the Cleveland Browns. I believe Josh Allen is the best player for that purpose.
I believe that building a team to win the AFC North should be the only goal of the Cleveland Browns. I believe Josh Allen is the best player for that purpose.
Yes I have Petey. I think that Josh Allen is the best option for the Browns. I could also mention the success rate of NFL QB's who start an NFL game prior to their 22nd birthday. This list of failed QB's gives me apprehension about Darnold. Rosen is not an AFC North QB nor is Baker Mayfield. If you believe that the Browns should take a QB at #1 overall. I believe the obvious choice is Josh Allen.
Yes I have Petey. I think that Josh Allen is the best option for the Browns. I could also mention the success rate of NFL QB's who start an NFL game prior to their 22nd birthday. This list of failed QB's gives me apprehension about Darnold. Rosen is not an AFC North QB nor is Baker Mayfield. If you believe that the Browns should take a QB at #1 overall. I believe the obvious choice is Josh Allen.
Why the heck aren't Baker Mayfield or Josh Rosen AFC North QBs?
I watch the film, and it's not even close. Rosen and Mayfield are far and away better QBs than Josh Allen. I don't care what a combine or pro-day shows. The game is what matters. Real defenses.
When that happens, Allen is inconsistent and not accurate.
I love the kid. It will be fun to watch him progress and become a better QB. I think he will. I don't think we'll see him do that in Cleveland. I don't think our FO see themselves in the position to take the risk.
"Inconsistent and not accurate", yes... but not as bad as people make it seem. Most also agree that he can be much more efficient with something as simple (and coachable) as proper footwork and balance.
TBH, I question the few points of completion percentage being some "kiss of death". Trade 2-3 completions per game for a QB that can throw any pass, to any part of the field, at any velocity? Sign me up.
I hope he lands in a good position to grow as an NFL QB... I just hope it's not with a different team in the AFC North.
j/c...I think the fact that we got TT raises Josh Allens grades for us to possibly draft him. He will get 1 possibly 2 years to tweak his game to perfection. If he proves to be coach able and easily comfortable to change. He could be the kid we go with??? Not my choice just trying to think about what our guys come up with.
I will ask this question as I'm asking it with all the other prospects.
Does anyone have a schedule of Allen coming to Berea for his private workout.
His feet, decision making, which leads to his inaccuracy at times, other times his throws are outstandingly accurate, especially on the run. Problems a lot of QBs have coming out. Watch the two early throws vs Hawaii he made to the opposite hash, ropes that were on the money, perfect throws, both dropped. Those type of throws are what’s gonna get him drafted higher then most want. Whether he deserves it, only time will tell. He’s got a long way to go.
My flaws for Allen are his accuracy and his lack of production and efficiency while playing at a lower level of competition.
Baker Mayfield is too small for the AFC North. Rosen is too fragile. I believe all the QBs in this draft class have flaws to their games. I believe that the Browns could go with a QB later in the Draft like Rudolph. However, I believe the Browns need to draft a QB #1 overall and my opinion is you go with the tangibles, size, strength, mobility, and speed. If you wish to consider the intangibles such as coachability, leadership, success (winning big games), etc... I think that Josh Allen is not behind any of the other QB prospects in this either. We do not want another short cocky QB like Manziel. I do not think we need a young turnover machine like Darnold. We had one in Kizer. I do not think we want Rosen who could not come through when it mattered in college. Rosen is not a good fit in Cleveland and the AFC North in my opinion. I vote Allen #1 overall no matter what.
Baker Mayfield is too small for the AFC North. Rosen is too fragile. I believe all the QBs in this draft class have flaws to their games. I believe that the Browns could go with a QB later in the Draft like Rudolph. However, I believe the Browns need to draft a QB #1 overall and my opinion is you go with the tangibles, size, strength, mobility, and speed. If you wish to consider the intangibles such as coachability, leadership, success (winning big games), etc... I think that Josh Allen is not behind any of the other QB prospects in this either. We do not want another short cocky QB like Manziel. I do not think we need a young turnover machine like Darnold. We had one in Kizer. I do not think we want Rosen who could not come through when it mattered in college. Rosen is not a good fit in Cleveland and the AFC North in my opinion. I vote Allen #1 overall no matter what.
Voleur
Jamarcus Allen #1? That would be the most patethic thing the Browns could do
Baker Mayfield is too small for the AFC North. Rosen is too fragile. I believe all the QBs in this draft class have flaws to their games. I believe that the Browns could go with a QB later in the Draft like Rudolph. However, I believe the Browns need to draft a QB #1 overall and my opinion is you go with the tangibles, size, strength, mobility, and speed. If you wish to consider the intangibles such as coachability, leadership, success (winning big games), etc... I think that Josh Allen is not behind any of the other QB prospects in this either. We do not want another short cocky QB like Manziel. I do not think we need a young turnover machine like Darnold. We had one in Kizer. I do not think we want Rosen who could not come through when it mattered in college. Rosen is not a good fit in Cleveland and the AFC North in my opinion. I vote Allen #1 overall no matter what.
Voleur
Jamarcus Allen #1? That would be the most patethic thing the Browns could do
Mayfield is short...he is not small. Your reasoning is irrelevant regarding Mayfield...kid is tough so is his body...220+ built like a RB.
Tell me about it. He's played more than any of these guys, only games he missed were as a true freshman at Texas Tech. A team that he walked on and won the job for.
He's 6'0 1/2 Inches. Merely at most two inches shorter than Trubisky.
I'm on the record .. I think is going to have a Stellar career ( with the right team ).. Thought the same about Brian Leftwich until Del Rio got his hands on him .. whilst into soul bearing ( lol ) I was also a big RG3 fan ( coming out of college ).. So was Toad , ha ha..
Baker Mayfield is too small for the AFC North. Rosen is too fragile. I believe all the QBs in this draft class have flaws to their games. I believe that the Browns could go with a QB later in the Draft like Rudolph. However, I believe the Browns need to draft a QB #1 overall and my opinion is you go with the tangibles, size, strength, mobility, and speed. If you wish to consider the intangibles such as coachability, leadership, success (winning big games), etc... I think that Josh Allen is not behind any of the other QB prospects in this either. We do not want another short cocky QB like Manziel. I do not think we need a young turnover machine like Darnold. We had one in Kizer. I do not think we want Rosen who could not come through when it mattered in college. Rosen is not a good fit in Cleveland and the AFC North in my opinion. I vote Allen #1 overall no matter what.
Voleur
Jamarcus Allen #1? That would be the most patethic thing the Browns could do
Jamarcus Russell.
Taking Josh Allen with the first would be like what the Raiders did taking Jamarcus...
I think only Rosen and Darnold should be taken #1, Mayfield and Lammar with the #4, Allen IMHO is a 2nd round Qb maybe low 1st round.
Browns will conduct private workouts with Sam Darnold and Josh Allen this week in conjunction with their Pro Days
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns will not only attend the Pro Days of Sam Darnold and Josh Allen this week, they'll also conduct private workouts with those players in conjunction with their pro days, league sources told cleveland.com.
They'll also conduct private workouts with UCLA's Josh Rosen and Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield who had their Pro Days last Wednesday and Thursday when the Browns were busy overhauling their roster in free agency. Browns general manager John Dorsey and Hue Jackson skipped those workouts.
But they'll be in attendance at the Pro Days of Darnold Wednesday at USC and Allen Friday at Wyoming, which will be run by their QB trainer Jordan Palmer.
All four quarterbacks, who will also come to the Browns facility for pre-draft visits, are in the discussion for the Browns at No. 1 overall even though they've declared Tyrod Taylor their starter for 2018.
The Browns will be especially interested to see Darnold throw since he didn't do so at the NFL Scouting Combine last month. He's expected to throw despite heavy rains in the forecast and no indoor fieldhouse.
"(The Browns) asked why and I gave them a pretty good answer in my opinion,'' he told cleveland.com at the combine. But he also said he had no regrets about that decision and that he was eager to display his skills at his Pro Day.
"(It will be) just kind of what they saw on film, that I'm accurate, I can throw on the run and I've got some zip on the ball,'' said Darnold. "So they're going to see all of it and I think they'll like what they see.''
Darnold, a strong candidate to go No. 1 to the Browns, acknowledged that they grilled him on his turnovers -- 22 interceptions and 21 fumbles including 14 lost in 22 starts at USC.
"I answered it to the best of my ability,'' he said. "Obviously turning the ball isn't something you want to do as a quarterback and ... I thought I answered it pretty well. I said 'I'm aware I turned the ball over a lot this last season and I'm doing a lot this offseason to clean it up.'''
The private workout will be a chance for the Browns to dig deep into Darnold's skill set and also put him on the board and determine his processing speed.
"We're going to always look at all of those things, as you know,'' Jackson said at the combine. "There's all kind of different variables that a guy's had to deal with, players leaving, systems, all kind of things. So we just have to sort through it all to understand it. And we will. We'll dig into that and understand why those things happened, and we'll give the player an opportunity to explain to us why they happened.''
Sam Darnold: NFL Draft 2018 video profile
As for the fumbles, Jackson said, "you've got to see where that's coming from. Is it because the guy's not protecting the ball? Maybe somebody's hitting him on the arm. Maybe it's his grip. There could be a lot of different reasons why those things are happening. But again, as you just mentioned, it's something we have to find out about.''
Darnold and Allen have both been training the past few months with Palmer, the younger brother of Carson Palmer. A former QB for the Redskins, Bengals, Jaguars, Bears, and Titans, Jordan Palmer was coached in Cincinnati by current Browns quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese and the two have remained close, meaning the Browns will have plenty of good background on Darnold and Allen.
Palmer has been working with Darnold on the turnovers and other issues, and with Allen on his footwork to improve his 56.2 completion percentage.
Allen's more stable base resulted in a sensational combine workout in which he dazzled scouts and coaches with his cannon arm.
Allen felt good about his Browns interview and his combine workout
"The ball comes off his hand with effort velocity,'' analyst David Carr said on NFL Network during the workout. "The guy can just rip it.''
NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said, "This kid has a better arm than (Carson Wentz).''
"They're just asking how I'm working to fix it and (I'm) giving them the answer that I usually give to the other coaches and that's working with (QB trainer) Jordan Palmer, working on my base, my footwork, short front stride, all that jazz and hopefully I went out there today and showed the improvement."
Allen drew a big "ooh'' from inside Lucas Oil Stadium when fired a 70-yard pass at the combine
"That was crazy,'' he said. "Yeah, it was really cool. They had some fans inside the stadium this year and I'm happy that they were able to get out here and kind of see the talent that's going to be entering this NFL Draft. Just happy to be a part of it." NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah said Allen "won the day,'' and Mike Mayock said he "takes my breath away with some of the throws he makes."
"Felt good," Allen said. "The first throw got away from me and I was thinking about that for a little bit, but not a lot of nerves. Just super anxious to get out there and start throwing the ball again. It had been a few days. I felt like I put the ball where it needed to be and I think I tested pretty well. I think an overall pretty good performance."
Allen hoped to improve even more on his footwork between the combine and his Pro Day.
"Obviously, I'm still going to be working in California, trying to improve and so when we get to Pro Day, hopefully we'll have a better showing there."
The pro day is a perfect vehicle to showcase Allen.
Everyone will be gushing.
Allen will light it up. He has eye popping arm strength.
He looks the part. Big guy with athletic skills. Mind boggling that he didn't get a scholarship to big time football school.
You want to build a quarterback from a clay; he will look like Allen.
The first time I watched his tape; I was are you ffing kidding me? This guy has a sonic arm.
But the more you watch you start to think oh oh.
Derek Anderson could throw with the best of them. Weeden as well. The problem was where?
Allen I have said since November is a hard guy to evaluate. Unless you are really into his roster and know the issues that exist; you can not make a honest assessment.
Will he be forever, what the tape shows? Or, is the tape misleading?
Can he reach his potential? Or, will his potential just be a symbol of failure?
With Taylor set to be our QB this year Allen might be intriging to the Browns if they can sit him for a year. I think the Browns are leaning towards Darnold but Allen could sneak in ahead of him with a strong pro day.
and he was 28 going on 29. What a horrible decision to draft that clown. So pissed at that pick when it was announced. I wanted Wilson that year, too. Still pisses me off thinking of it.
With Taylor set to be our QB this year Allen might be intriging to the Browns if they can sit him for a year. I think the Browns are leaning towards Darnold but Allen could sneak in ahead of him with a strong pro day.
I was actually leaving towards Allen for a while, but the more I thought about it Darnold is younger and further along in development than Allen. Allen is more physically gifted but I feel Darnold is a much better prospect overall.
Qbs who can't achieve at least 60% completion percentage in college are almost always doomed for failure in the NFL. There is no reason to get hoodwinked by Allen's big arm because half the time he isn't going to get the ball to his receivers and that is unacceptable.
Our private meetings will be big for these guys but probably more so for Allen. Wish I was the fly on the wall.
Cool thought we take Allen at 4 then auction him off!
While I agree the private meetings will be a big factor in choosing a QB I don't agree with taking Allen at 4 and then auctioning him off. This would keep us from drafting an impact player at #4 and for what? More lower draft picks or future draft picks? How has that worked in the past? We need players now. Besides how would that look if Allen turned out to be the next Rothlisberger and we had him and let him go?
The thing is that arm strength is only so important. Once it's shown your arm is strong enough, arm strength becomes less and less important.
More important is accuracy and your ability to read the defense pre-snap and your ability to make your reads and deliver quickly.
That's what frustrates me when I listened to Mary Kay Cabot's Facebook Live thing she did yesterday when she said she likes Josh Allen.
There's nothing that Josh Allen's pro-day can really show us. He's shown us that he has a strong arm and is good at catch. Maybe he can show us he changed in a game of catch. But I've seen, on film, that he's not very accurate in actual football games. When defenses are coming at you, he's not accurate.
They can say mechanics is the reason or whatever. That's fine, but when the game starts, how do we know you won't go back to your same old natural habits?
This guy is way too dangerous, with the mere upside of him having a strong arm/being fast, to be our pick at 1. It's just crazy. I mean, I can see arguments for Baker Mayfield over Josh Rosen. I can even see Sam Darnold.
But my god, after those three, the talent drop off is significant.
I'm just scared we'll screw this up and draft the next Paxton Lynch. Cause that's what I see Josh Allen as. Paxton Lynch. Another guy with this powerful arm, who's athletic, and can make plays with his feet.
I'd be more on board with Allen if he showed more touch in the range that most NFL passes go. And, I'd have liked to see it when he had to throw over and around people, not in shorts to uncovered receivers.
It has been proven many times over you can not just look at today. This is not about what they are right now. No young guy comes into the NFL and has it all down.
I have seen one: Andrew Luck.
All the others you have to project over a two to four year period.
If you looked at all the guys in this draft I can point out areas that need to improve.
The Browns have a starter. The guy they draft will be an apprentice.
The question is which guy will develop into what they want?
You can not write off a kid coming into the NFL because he was not perfect in college.
It has been proven many times over you can not just look at today. This is not about what they are right now. No young guy comes into the NFL and has it all down.
I have seen one: Andrew Luck.
All the others you have to project over a two to four year period.
If you looked at all the guys in this draft I can point out areas that need to improve.
The Browns have a starter. The guy they draft will be an apprentice.
The question is which guy will develop into what they want?
You can not write off a kid coming into the NFL because he was not perfect in college.
None of us know what Allen will become.
That's fine. No player has it down. But there are things you can improve, and things you can't. Generally guys who are innaccurate in college, don't become that much more accurate in the NFL.
Generally guys with a below 60% completition percentage in college, don't increase that percentage in the NFL.
Obviously no one knows what Allen will become as he progresses, but we can take guesses. My guess is that Allen, who doesn't show the traits that I find most important for a QB, won't improve upon those enough to be a very successful NFL QB.
You can improve upon things, but in general, you are what you are. Allen is a mega armed QB, who is inconsistent, not very accurate, and doesn't seem to find the open guy and deliver
Our private meetings will be big for these guys but probably more so for Allen. Wish I was the fly on the wal[color:#l.
Cool thought we take Allen at 4 then auction him off!
While I agree the private meetings will be a big factor in choosing a QB I don't agree with taking Allen at 4 and then auctioning him off. This would keep us from drafting an impact player at #4 and for what? More lower draft picks or future draft picks? How has that worked in the past? We need players now. Besides how would that look if Allen turned out to be the next Rothlisberger and we had him and let him go?
Dont worry just a brain fart not to be taken seriously. Although basically the Giants did something similar in 04.
Favre completed 52% in college and 62% in the NFL so no one can be sure how a player will continue to develop. A lot of fans have made statements on what can be fixed and what can't. It's amazing how many QB experts we have on this board. I just hope Dorsey and company make the right decision.
Actually With Allen my concern is decision making not accuracy.
My belief is each case is different and you can not make generalizations.
Not all short guys will be bad.
All guys who throw under 60 percent will not improve.
If you do not dig into each case and look deeper; you will loose out on players.
That is why so many undrafted guys make it.
If these players are what they are; then why have position coaches?
Once they turn pro is when learning begins.
Sure, but watching Josh Allen. He's shown to be inconsistent (and his decision making has shown to be questionable, which I think I mentioned earlier about accurately delivering the ball to the correct player)
How does it make sense to select a guy who has shown these things, based off the fact that he's A) Tall B) Has a very strong arm and C) Seems to be athletic/fast
I guess it's why I don't care for Pro-Days or any of that. I watch the games and decide there.
Folks keep comparing him to this guy and that guy. I see the Big Ben references. I saw Big Ben in College. He was the best player in the MAC (over Josh Harris of Bowling Green). He clearly was a really good player. I don't see anything like that in Josh Allen. I just see a tall guy, who is athletic, with a rocket arm.
I actually have the opinion that a QB can have TOO strong an arm. It causes more problems than it's worth. They throw so hard no one can catch it or balls bounce off the WRs' hands. They turn short easy passes into extremely hard balls to catch. In some cases like Farve they break their WRs fingers.
Allen lacks accuracy, ball placement, and touch on his passes. Your just not going to fix all that. He will continue to be mentally lazy and just try to throw it into places he shouldn't and rely on his arm to muscle the ball into dangerous places and trust the CBs have too hard a time catching it to intercept it.
There is no way this guy belongs in the first round.
Accuracy is the most important quality for an NFL QB.
1. Favre in college was how long ago, the college game has changed and how to view the stats.
2. How long did you have to dig up a QB to sort of make your point which frankly I'm not sure what it was. I guess that miracles can happen...lol Curious what QB you are championing???
3. Yeah I know there are a lot of experts on the board, I guess I would resemble that remark. I'm a K.I.S.S. person. I look at footwork, I look at release I look at spiral and speed of the throws to determine a good QB from a bad one. I don't look at the stat completion % but I do look at it to see if my opinion of accuracy when I watch them in games is valid.
4. If a Lamar Jackson is not accurate some of that is technical and possibly can be taught. Some of it is just a natural ability. You see the target and the hand/arm coordination hits the destined target. You can determine that by watching the games. If you do not possess that natural ability you can be coached by the best accuracy will not PWANG arrive out of no where.
This doesn't mean said QB cannot hit a career streak and get a team in the playoffs. See Jaguars.
But it will be very hard to win a SB (Championship) with a QB that is not consistently accurate.
I wish for us to obtain a QB who will be very accurate, not sometimes accurate. But the type of QB that will be in the pocket, make the correct decision and see that wide open WR and without much pressure on him...HIT IT WITH SUCCESS. We deserve such a QB. The top 3 Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield are all such QBs that I would deem Accurate.
Yeah some posters get a little too annal on some technique issues. Such as Darnold he has a slight loop in his release but not a bad one. And from what I see his release is still quick time wise when he throws the ball.
The reason that is an issue is "TIME" if it delays the time of the release the NFL DBs will see (not too often in man as they could have their back to the ball) especially in zone the QB start his release and they will then break on the route. If that release takes too much time they can defend the pass well. But if the release time is fast...moot point.
jmho some here have good knowledge if you need to know credentials some are quick to let you know...lol
I really , really really want to respond to what is being posted here as absolutes about this kid , or any other of the FINE prospects coming out this year . I just hope these remarks are archived ..
For the record I have stated that Allen is the only one that intrigues me on the Accuracy issues.
1. he didn't have any NFL quality, nor did he have the best coaching.
2. I liked the change and results after going to these QB camps pre-combine. Because of that I am very curious on his possible development especially since we will not be looking to play the kid for at least the first year.
Allen needs a lot of coddling, he needs a system that caters to his skills. He is huge, he is athletic…look at how he stacks up to Cam Newton. I think that if he gets a system around him where he can use his athleticism, maybe not to the extent that Cam did, but maybe????
He needs a Franchise to sell out and use his skills, if they want him to be a drop back passer, they are going to be very disappointed.
Allen can throw it a mile, but a couple of his deep throws today would have been either incomplete or intercepted. I am not sold on his accuracy, and that is vital in today's NFL. I think that he is going to have to be "built", more than any of the other top 5. (which is weird, considering his experience under Center, and with calling audibles and protections)
Once and if he learns to throw with anticipation, Allen will be fine, his accuracy will improve as his footwork improves. You watch the tape you can see the disconnect between his feet on his bad throws. It took Elway forever to learn to throw with anticipation. Favre took awhile too, both were QBs who needed to see it open before throwing it, just as Allen is. His decision making should improve through time, he sounds like a dedicated hard worker. Even Marino struggled with throwing with anticipation in college, by the way he was another QB who never threw for over 60% in college.
I really , really really want to respond to what is being posted here as absolutes about this kid , or any other of the FINE prospects coming out this year . I just hope these remarks are archived ..
Archive them. And THIS.
I can't stand the SIGHT of Mayfield.
Allen has NO CLUE how to throw with Anticipation.
Great arm. Superb kid.
And Archive THIS also.
Allen goes to the Denver Donkey and rekindles the Kosar vs Elway rivalry.
I really , really really want to respond to what is being posted here as absolutes about this kid , or any other of the FINE prospects coming out this year . I just hope these remarks are archived ..
It'll be interesting. But I really don't think Allen is the right QB to go number 1. He's not who I want, that's for sure. I think he'll take a lot of work before he's a good NFL QB.
But a lot of these guys could be good. The ones I feel best about, I've made clear though. Very clear. Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold. One of those I want at number 1, and Rosen is the one I want the most
One thing Allen does do well, imo just as good as anyone who’s ever played, is throw on the run. It’s evertless and accurate when he throws on the run, scrambling in either direction.
One thing Allen does do well, imo just as good as anyone who’s ever played, is throw on the run. It’s evertless and accurate when he throws on the run, scrambling in either direction.
Nothing Allen does should be considered accurate. I've never seen a highly touted QB miss as many throws as him (and he misses some by a mile).
One thing Allen does do well, imo just as good as anyone who’s ever played, is throw on the run. It’s evertless and accurate when he throws on the run, scrambling in either direction.
See, he can make some really difficult throws on the run. But his consistency when making throws on the run doesn't impress me. Does this make sense?
And that's why i'm gonna disagree. Because I don't think he's as good as anyone who's ever played at throwing on the run. In fact, I don't think he's the most accurate thrower on the run in this draft
He is a project QB that will need to sit and learn for years. That by definition is a 3rd round grade or worse. This idea that you jump a QB up a few rounds just because he can throw hard is stupid.
He is a project QB that will need to sit and learn for years. That by definition is a 3rd round grade or worse. This idea that you jump a QB up a few rounds just because he can throw hard is stupid.
But he's 6'5, 240 Pounds, with huge hands too............
He is a project QB that will need to sit and learn for years. That by definition is a 3rd round grade or worse. This idea that you jump a QB up a few rounds just because he can throw hard is stupid.
But he's 6'5, 240 Pounds, with huge hands too............
That's nice and all but doesn't really matter that much. ANY QB who can throw the football 52mph has plenty of ball velocity. Any QB who can throw it 50 vertical yards can throw it long enough. Almost all QBs who play in college can do those basic things. Physically nothing else is really required.
The most important thing is that they have the Brains to read defenses Pre and Post Snap, Field Vision, Reaction Time, and Ball Placement skills while meeting those basic physical qualities.
That big arm is quite possibly the LEAST important part in finding a franchise QB.
That big arm is quite possibly the LEAST important part in finding a franchise QB.
My original post, was a joke. I've made pretty clear that I have Josh Allen as my 4th QB on the list. He's a project, with questions beyond accuracy.
But, arm strength does mean something. Once you pass the test, you're good to go IMO.
But guys like Kellen Moore and Graham Harrell never stood much of a chance to make it in the NFL because their arm strength wasn't enough. You want a guy with some arm strength because they can deliver the ball faster in those tight windows. Most college QBs don't have the ability to do that IMO.
But, as you said, once it's strong enough, the benefit starts decreasing. It's like a check box. "Strong Enough", check, great. Moving on
One thing Allen does do well, imo just as good as anyone who’s ever played, is throw on the run. It’s evertless and accurate when he throws on the run, scrambling in either direction.
See, he can make some really difficult throws on the run. But his consistency when making throws on the run doesn't impress me. Does this make sense?
And that's why i'm gonna disagree. Because I don't think he's as good as anyone who's ever played at throwing on the run. In fact, I don't think he's the most accurate thrower on the run in this draft
Is it just me or yesterday when Allen did those few scrambling throws he looked like he was going in slow motion.
Comparing those same type throws from Darnold, Darnold was going ALL OUT like he had 4 guys coming to take his head off.
Arm strength is interesting. It was considered very important for quite awhile. Then, many of us began saying that arm strength is overrated. And it was.
However, I think arm strength is becoming more important than it was several years ago. The players are so much bigger and faster now. DBs and LBs can make up a lot of ground quickly. Training techniques to help develop quick twitch actions is a true science. The windows in the NFL are smaller and they close more quickly than ever before. Thus, I think having a strong arm is more helpful than it was even just several years ago.
One thing I kept hearing Mayock say during the combine while Allen was throwing was that Allen waits to throw too often because he knows he can throw fastballs. The problem I see is if this was his MO in college it’ll get him killed in the pros. Waiting in the pros means taking more hits and more sacks. To add, if he was waiting in college it’s my guess he was processing information slowly. Therefore he was late on throws but could zip it in anyway. If that is the case his processing of info on the pro level isn’t going to speed up without a lot of practice reps. I like the guy. Just not with the 1st or 4th pick.
This is a good point. Many qbs wait to throw until the receiver comes open. I think there are only two qbs in this draft that throw w/anticipation. One does it extremely well and the other has shown flashes, which at times leads to picks...but, I get the read he was making.
Mayock just kept saying it over and over but kinda brushed it off as being okay because of his arm strength allowed it. I just kept hearing ‘red flag’. I was surprised that Mayock didn’t point out the downside.
Or he could simply need more experience working on timing and anticipation. I think in a few years (3, 4, 5?) this kid will be lighting it up and will be a 15 year starter. His ability to sling it quickly when he sees an opening is not a negative. He's going to burn a lot of defenses with that quickness and big arm.
I didn't listen to it, but waiting to throw until the guy is open results in a lot of problems for NFL qbs. We saw it first hand w/Kizer last year. Weeden was atrocious in that regard.
Throwing w/anticipation is complex because it isn't just about knowing which option your receiver will choose on the stem of the route tree, but also what the defensive player's responsibilities are in certain coverages and how fast the closing speed is of individual defenders. Heck, you even have to consider if your receiver tends to round cuts or makes quick, precise cuts.
I think it's a huge qb trait that isn't talked about as much because it's harder to recognize and explain by most analysts.
I think it's directly tied to a QB's ability to read defenses and to KNOW where he is going with the ball before he even snaps it. At least in general anyways. This is what allows you to throw with anticipation vs not being able to read the defense and only throwing once you see them open.
Aye man I think we are on the same page on this issue =)
In any case I don't wish ill on the kid. I just don't want us to make a reach when we have high quality choices that are a lot safer.
Yup. Same page.
A very risky prospect. And definitely not who I want to take at 1.
He could end up being an excellent player. But too dangerous for me.
My rankings are what they are, and just because I definitely don't want Josh Allen, doesn't mean that I don't think he's a 1st round prospect or anything like that. I just see 3 or 4 players better than him.
Everyone, in the right situation can work out. We're picking our guy at 1 though, and I want the cream of the crop. That's why I've been an adament no about Josh Allen. Doesn't mean he can't be successful, just, I'd like some other guys much much more
I saw the same thing. In comparison Darnold's feet were much quicker in those drills. I thought the camera angle that was shown of Allen's pro day was much better than what they showed of Darnolds....it was a bit difficult to see if Darnold hit his receiver in stride without slowing down sometimes.
Darnold's movement was crisper. He moved smoothly. Naturally.
Allen is a guy you want to like. He is physical stud. Presents himself very well. Seems like a really good kid who will work hard. Passionate about football.
However, I can not ignore the tape. He did not play in a high profile league. He didn't dominate against lessor competition. He was inconsistent in accuracy.
I love his potential but I would not pick him number one. No way I take him over Darnold.
I believe Darnold is the better prospect than Allen and I think he is the one we should take. Allen with his size and arm strength is intriguing but the concerns that have been brought up about him on these posts are real and legit. Basically, those concerns are what we saw with DK. We don't need to repeat.
Its a transition that all college QBs will have to make. In college the windows were 5 yards separation. Also the over matched teams they would play. None brought this out than Leinhart of USC. Man the kid just sat in a pocket for 4-5 seconds and would hit wide open WR after WR. He then simply could not make that adjustment into the NFL.
Its something you might get a glimpse here and there if you look long enough. I now I champion Mayfield and some will poo poo him cause he is throwing to open WRs. But if you watch all his games all his reps there are enough small window throws that he makes for one to nod their heads in that he will make that transition.
I have not looked at any other QB as much as I did Mayfield for me to add their names to the list. All I can say is he has the accuracy and NONE HESITATION to fit a ball in that small window which in the NFL will be more the rule than the exception.
One has to figure in Drops with the strength of arm advantage as strength of arm will give that QB a split second loner on his throws. But one has to factor in what increase of drops would be seen.
Drew Brees is a perfect example of good arm but not a guy who throws bullets. For that deep out that we both use as a barometer of NFL QB, Drew will make his decision faster and release the ball sooner so that it gets out there.
I remember seeing a layover of both Drew and Colt on that deep out. The velocity seemed to be similar but the big difference is that Drew was getting rid of the ball a half second sooner than Colt making the outcome to be one of ease and one of danger.
I believe Darnold is the better prospect than Allen and I think he is the one we should take. Allen with his size and arm strength is intriguing but the concerns that have been brought up about him on these posts are real and legit. Basically, those concerns are what we saw with DK. We don't need to repeat.
Agreed. The accuracy, consistency, and decision making questions I have with Allen just make me nervous.
As someone said, he wasn't even All-Mountain West, period, in 2017. He was second team All Mountain West in 2016. He's not even regarded as the best in his own conference. A conference regarded as weak. Doesn't mean he's a bad prospect, but those kind of things are a bit alarming.
And if accuracy is the deciding factor you have to go Rosen all day. I still take Darnold, or Allen even (if I'm picking anywhere but #1) because of the durability concern.
Just a little history and it's not even the same sport but it's pertinent to the topic. Back in the early 60's there was a pitching prospect named Steve Dalkowski who was said to be able to throw a baseball 105-110 MPH. The problem? Couldn't come close to getting it over the plate most of the time. If a QB has a rocket for an arm and can throw it 90 yards that's great but if he never becomes accurate and can never anticipate separation he will never be a top QB. I think everyone on this board knows that but it's worth noting.
I believe Darnold is the better prospect than Allen and I think he is the one we should take. Allen with his size and arm strength is intriguing but the concerns that have been brought up about him on these posts are real and legit. Basically, those concerns are what we saw with DK. We don't need to repeat.
Agreed. The accuracy, consistency, and decision making questions I have with Allen just make me nervous.
As someone said, he wasn't even All-Mountain West, period, in 2017. He was second team All Mountain West in 2016. He's not even regarded as the best in his own conference. A conference regarded as weak. Doesn't mean he's a bad prospect, but those kind of things are a bit alarming.
He only passed for 200 more yards then Lamar Jackson rushed for. Allen has a ton of question marks. Level of competition. Lack of production/efficiency/accuracy/decision making at said lower level of competition. Injury.
He has huge "plus" categories. Other worldly arm strength. Great athleticism considering his size. Comes from an offense and coaching staff that coached Carson Wentz.
Carson Wentz helped dispel some of the level of competition concerns since he faced the same situations.
But Allen is actually, bigger, more athletic and has a stronger arm.
Like with any QB can you build an offense around Allen that emphasizes his strengths? That doesn't force a power thrower like Flacco into a dink and dunk West Coast Offense with Morningwhig?
Can you devise a scheme, gameplan and passing game that caters to his throwing style? Do you have a plan in place to improve his weak areas? Footwork, decision making and anticipation?
He's not my top QB prospect. But I can understand why he's considered one of the top 5.
Well, I tried to add some knowledge and insight to these qb threads w/out praising anyone or trashing anyone. I was hoping that some might be interested in learning, but again, that isn't the case. Everyone understands the nuances of the position implicitly and aren't interested in learning.
Why? Because I guess we are enamored with Josh Allen. Yes, the source is Dan Patrick, and he doesn't strike me as someone who's entirely "connected". But we just signed Taylor and Stanton which seems to point to letting a rookie sit on the bench.
I can just see a board meltdown if we trade out of #1, only to take Allen #2. Hopefully this is all a smokescreen.
Its a transition that all college QBs will have to make. In college the windows were 5 yards separation. Also the over matched teams they would play. None brought this out than Leinhart of USC. Man the kid just sat in a pocket for 4-5 seconds and would hit wide open WR after WR. He then simply could not make that adjustment into the NFL.
Its something you might get a glimpse here and there if you look long enough. I now I champion Mayfield and some will poo poo him cause he is throwing to open WRs. But if you watch all his games all his reps there are enough small window throws that he makes for one to nod their heads in that he will make that transition.
I have not looked at any other QB as much as I did Mayfield for me to add their names to the list. All I can say is he has the accuracy and NONE HESITATION to fit a ball in that small window which in the NFL will be more the rule than the exception.
One has to figure in Drops with the strength of arm advantage as strength of arm will give that QB a split second loner on his throws. But one has to factor in what increase of drops would be seen.
Drew Brees is a perfect example of good arm but not a guy who throws bullets. For that deep out that we both use as a barometer of NFL QB, Drew will make his decision faster and release the ball sooner so that it gets out there.
I remember seeing a layover of both Drew and Colt on that deep out. The velocity seemed to be similar but the big difference is that Drew was getting rid of the ball a half second sooner than Colt making the outcome to be one of ease and one of danger.
jmho
I've seen you pimping Mayfield for a bit now, and I wanted to say that this has eased my mind on the Browns drafting him. My only knock on him is that I wish he was 4 inches taller. And if you like him that much, then maybe there's something there. I'll be happy with Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield.
My question to you is this, what would you say to the people out there that say Mayfield has reached his "Ceiling" for development? To those that say he is as good as he's going to get?
Why? Because I guess we are enamored with Josh Allen. Yes, the source is Dan Patrick, and he doesn't strike me as someone who's entirely "connected". But we just signed Taylor and Stanton which seems to point to letting a rookie sit on the bench.
I can just see a board meltdown if we trade out of #1, only to take Allen #2. Hopefully this is all a smokescreen.
Ugh, I still can't get over this. There's no way this is possible.
Cleveland Browns Daily, says it's between Darnold and Mayfield.
If we select Allen over Rosen or Mayfield, it would be a real test of my faith in this regime. A real test. I can roll with Darnold. I'd be happier with Mayfield. I'd be happiest with Rosen.
But Allen. Oof. That could possibly ruin my summer
Yeah, I'm with you there. I also don't know where Dan Patrick is getting his sources from, but he's been really, really high on Allen for some crazy reason. He's been saying something to the effect of, "We might have 3 QBs go in the first picks ... Darnold, Rosen and Allen".
I think part of it has to do with him interviewing Jordan Palmer and he raved about how good Josh Allen was. But you have to remember, Palmer is working for Allen right now. He should be out there stumping for his guy, but we shouldn't be taking what he is saying as gospel either. He's not some objective scout giving his opinions on the incoming class.
It will all play out in time. I dont see the point in having a preconceived negative or positive reaction to the QB they pick.
I will judge them on the outcome.
I dunno how you do it then. Cause there are some guys that I just don't want.
Especially at the number 1 pick. This year. When we have the chance to change everything, instead of continued losing over and over and over like we've done for every season since we went 7-9, and every season before that since we went 10-6 and every season before that since we went 9-7 and every season before that since we came back twenty years ago
I've been a coach or instructor for the bulk of my life. I approach all prospects as if i was gonna coach them. One of the few things ive learned is there isn't just 1 way. Terry Bradshaw and Roethlisberger to Montana to Elway to Wilson to Brady to Flacco.
I tend to fall on the Bill Walsh/Mike Shananan spectrum in that i look at what players can do. And all the prospects have aspects of their game that an offensive can build around.
I trust that Dorsey will find a guy that fits into the Hue and Haley's coaching requirements. I believe this organization has a good structure in place to develop a QB. And at the end of the day rhe sutuation is just as important as the prospect, imo.
I trust that Dorsey will find a guy that fits into the Hue and Haley's coaching requirements. I believe this organization has a good structure in place to develop a QB. And at the end of the day rhe sutuation is just as important as the prospect, imo.
Fair enough. Situation is certainly critical. It's just difficult to have that kind of faith to be okay with whoever they get. I'm accepting of a number of guys. Josh Allen is one i'm less accepting of. Cause, from my scouting, he's certainly not deserving of that pick.
We all have a lot invested in this team. And we all desperately want the Browns to become successful.
Obviously Dorsey, Hue, and Haslam are in the same boat there. It's just hard, looking at someone that you definitely don't think is the right choice, and staying calm and being okay with it. Not like I can do anything of course, but I'm quite emotionally invested here, lol.
They are professionals though. I just hope to God that if they whoever they select is the right person. And I'll have a difficult time keeping the faith if they select a guy that I don't think fits our organization.
Yeah, I'm with you there. I also don't know where Dan Patrick is getting his sources from, but he's been really, really high on Allen for some crazy reason. He's been saying something to the effect of, "We might have 3 QBs go in the first picks ... Darnold, Rosen and Allen".
I think part of it has to do with him interviewing Jordan Palmer and he raved about how good Josh Allen was. But you have to remember, Palmer is working for Allen right now. He should be out there stumping for his guy, but we shouldn't be taking what he is saying as gospel either. He's not some objective scout giving his opinions on the incoming class.
Patrick is from the New York area and broadcasts from the home ESPN studios in Bridgeport. He is going to go for anything that pushes the NY teams and drive time ratings.
Ultimately, these QBs will be not judged by where they are drafted, but by their careers. We can say Allen or Jackson aren't worth the 1st pick, but if they stud out while whomever we pick at #1 doesn't, few will remember how they were ranked coming into the draft.
I'm a Darnold guy, with Rosen very close behind. I see Mayfield's talent but question his character. I worry about Jackson's frame. Allen has huge upside but has more to improve than any of the others. Rudolph is a bit of a wild card.
But while I'll be happy with Darnold or Rosen, if they prove to be good while Allen (or any of the others, but this is Allen's thread) has a HOF career, we will be seen as having blown the pick. The truth is, it's all a crap shoot. You can play the odds but can't predict the outcome.
Just a little history and it's not even the same sport but it's pertinent to the topic. Back in the early 60's there was a pitching prospect named Steve Dalkowski who was said to be able to throw a baseball 105-110 MPH. The problem? Couldn't come close to getting it over the plate most of the time. If a QB has a rocket for an arm and can throw it 90 yards that's great but if he never becomes accurate and can never anticipate separation he will never be a top QB. I think everyone on this board knows that but it's worth noting.
Patrick is from the New York area and broadcasts from the home ESPN studios in Bridgeport. He is going to go for anything that pushes the NY teams and drive time ratings.
Yeah, I can completely agree with that as well. I said as much in another post, wondering if the mainstream (spelled, New York/LA) media was trying to talk up Allen so that their LA guys could get to NY teams.
Yeah, I'm with you there. I also don't know where Dan Patrick is getting his sources from, but he's been really, really high on Allen for some crazy reason. He's been saying something to the effect of, "We might have 3 QBs go in the first picks ... Darnold, Rosen and Allen".
I think part of it has to do with him interviewing Jordan Palmer and he raved about how good Josh Allen was. But you have to remember, Palmer is working for Allen right now. He should be out there stumping for his guy, but we shouldn't be taking what he is saying as gospel either. He's not some objective scout giving his opinions on the incoming class.
Patrick is from the New York area and broadcasts from the home ESPN studios in Bridgeport. He is going to go for anything that pushes the NY teams and drive time ratings.
Just to clarify: Dan Patrick is originally from the Cincinnati area.
He no longer works for ESPN, hasn't for 10+ years now. He hosts NBC's Football Night in America Sunday nights during the season.
His radio show is broadcast from Milford Connecticut, in his own studio he helped build, with DirecTV's help, which it airs on TV as well.
I watched/listened to this 'speculation' on his part today, he said he got it from a 'scout friend' of his who he admitted was also just speculating and was in no way supporting this plan. He was merely just passing along a tidbit that might spur some discussion.
Just listed to the podcast an hour ago too. He did say "former scout" which made me wonder why he would have any inside information.
Patrick may be in Connecticut, but that's still somewhat of a "suburb" of New York City. In fact they do shows from a New York Studio occasionally. They may not be a true New York'ers, but I still think they know where their bread is buttered.
Patrick may be in Connecticut, but that's still somewhat of a "suburb" of New York City. In fact they do shows from a New York Studio occasionally. They may not be a true New York'ers, but I still think they know where their bread is buttered.
Bristol (where ESPN Studios and the Dan Patrick Show are filmed) is sort of on the border of the New York and Boston Sports Markets. Half way between New York and Boston, and probably an even distance from the New York State and Massachussetts border.
It's kinda funny. Cause it's right in the battleground of those two markets.
For example, down near me, we're Yankees, Mets, Jets, and Giants. Whereas, I imagine where RockyHillDawg is, it's Redsox and Patriots, hands down. There's some rivers which I consider dividing lines, but that far North, the river boundaries blur
Am I the only one that thinks all of this nonsense Hue is putting out leads to Josh Allen.
"Will not play no matter what".
Incoming disaster.
Sure hope not. I don't know how anyone can think this guy is a number one pick. He wasn't even a particularly good college player in a terrible conference for godsake
Am I the only one that thinks all of this nonsense Hue is putting out leads to Josh Allen.
"Will not play no matter what".
Incoming disaster.
Sure hope not. I don't know how anyone can think this guy is a number one pick. He wasn't even a particularly good college player in a terrible conference for godsake
My hope is that we don't want either Darnold or Allen, but we're trying to create a buzz to entice either the Giants or the Jets to trade up to #1 and take them since we think those quarterbacks are their respective choices.
I've been praying every night we draft Mayfield. Maybe I should just pray we don't take Allen.
I was on Allen early because of his arm strength and athletic ability then I got onto Darnold, so if we would pick either one I think I would be ok with it, but I would take Darnold over Allen. In other words those 2 are above the others IMO ...
My hope is that we don't want either Darnold or Allen, but we're trying to create a buzz to entice either the Giants or the Jets to trade up to #1 and take them since we think those quarterbacks are their respective choices.
I've been praying every night we draft Mayfield. Maybe I should just pray we don't take Allen.
My hope is that we just pick the guy we want most. Be it Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold (all of whom I like).
Just don't select Josh Allen.
I figured his name would fizzle out at some point, and it just doesn't. I just don't get it. It makes me crazy. I mean, am I the crazy one. As I pointed out before, every other small school QB has awards and accolades. They've been the best in their conferences, etc.
Josh Allen, hasn't. In a garbage conference. It's absolutely nuts to think that this guy, who's ridiculously inconsistent, inaccurate, makes poor decisions, is somehow justifiable to be a number 1 pick.
Honestly, it's sad because i'm 32 years old and married, and kind of have a life. But, i'll be losing sleep over Josh freaking Allen. Honestly, i'm ready to start praying. I wish that John Dorsey could just say in an interview, "Don't worry guys, we aren't selecting Josh Allen"
How can you select a football player with the first pick in the draft, who has proven nothing in actual football games other than, he's not that good
Hues comments about the QB sitting no matter what suggest it is definitely one of the two. Saying he is sitting no matter what screams "project" which indicates allen.
Hues comments about the QB sitting no matter what suggest it is definitely one of the two. Saying he is sitting no matter what screams "project" which indicates allen.
(Playing devils advocate against those who argue that Allen can't be a good NFL QB because he wasn't even the best QB in a weak college conference.)
There was a 'meet Josh Allen' type video played during the Senior Bowl broadcast that pointed out that while Rosen and Darnold were spending their HS summers going to QB camps and getting exposed to specialized QB coaching, Allen was working on the family farm. He was never exposed to any type of QB coaching til he went to Wyoming, and there it wasn't the high level specialized kind the other top prospects have received. In terms of that level of coaching, the Jordan Palmer training he has had in the last few months is his first. It therefor follows that his time with Palmer COULD have more of an impact on improving his deficiencies than anyone else in the class.
If that is the case, then taking him in the top of the draft and sitting him for a year or 2 to learn, while a big gamble, could pay off big. You would normally take that type of project in the 3rd round or later, but his arm will have someone willing to take that gamble. I don't think that should be the Browns, they can't afford that big a gamble.
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks scout one of the biggest arms to come out of the college ranks, Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen. The guys speak with his college head coach (6:35) and his trainers leading up to the draft (16:39, 28:12) before they sit down with the former Cowboys QB himself (34:36). Which franchise should pick Allen? How is he fine-tuning his game heading into the NFL? Find out on this Move the Sticks 360 episode.
Sometimes I am succinct, but I will elaborate: He had problems reading coverages, his completion percentage is embarrassing, he has no touch on the shorter throws. He reminds me of a lesser version of Derek.
Lol....don't worry I wasn't asking you to elaborate. The greatness of your previous post said enough for me to know we're not going to have any type of dialogue i'm interested in.
Sometimes I am succinct, but I will elaborate: He had problems reading coverages, his completion percentage is embarrassing, he has no touch on the shorter throws. He reminds me of a lesser version of Derek.
He is the worst performing QB by far being considered in the first round. He scores very few TDs and has a horrible completion percentage. There is nothing besides a strong arm that anyone likes about him. He sucks as a first round prospect.
Allen is a really big guy. He looks the part. He has one of the best arms you will see. He is mobile and throws well on the run. He is incredibly smart. He is showing that he takes well to coaching. He improved all week long at the senior bowl. He looked even better at the combines. Shortened his stride at his proday and was very accurate.
I think he is to big of a risk when i can go with a Darnold and get close to the upside with a fraction of risk. Bills are looking to leap the Broncos for Allen. good news for us.
Bills are looking to leap the Broncos for Allen. good news for us.
While the Bills may have their eye on our #4, I think they may also be discussing trading with the Giants for the #2 to get their guy before their division rivals, the Jets, pick.
Bills are looking to leap the Broncos for Allen. good news for us.
While the Bills may have their eye on our #4, I think they may also be discussing trading with the Giants for the #2 to get their guy before their division rivals, the Jets, pick.
Yup. I fully expect the Giants to either A) Trade down or B) Take a QB. I don't think the Bills traded up in the first place to not get themselves their QB. Whatever teh Bills offer the Giants, will be too much to take a non-qb in front of
right - all the GMs, scouts, and analysts are projecting him that high because he "looks" the part. Not because:
1. Best arm in the draft by far 2. Excellent mobility to extend plays 3. Great size and all that entails (ie. hand size) 4. Played in pro-style offense 5. Intelligence 6. Leadership skills
You’re right, it is a team sport, which is why Lamar did everything because he ALSO played with a lack of talent around him.
Yet offensively, he rose to the top against way tougher competition than Allen played against.
And you want to compare the ACC to....what division did Allen play in again?
Wentz didn’t play in a tough decision either, but atleast he DOMINATED the conference he played in. Allen wasn’t even the best in his own conference, yet he’s somehow better than Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, Mayfield?
He ain’t even better than mason Rudolph. So what good is all those attributes you listed if he can’t even put it together on the actual field. Ya know, on game day, where it actually MATTERS.
If you like Allen so much, why weren’t you advocating for Kizer? They’re the same damn thing. All the measurables, can’t put it together on game day.
The thing with Allen is that I keep hearing he'll improve with better talent around him. However, the defenses he faces will also be better than the ones he faced at Wyoming.
Mahomes was one of the few quarterbacks out there who didn't necessarily "win" that I really liked. Just at a quick glance, comparing both their games in their final year, Wyoming scored more than 40 points only twice while Texas Tech scored 50+ 7 times...against greater competition presumably...
Honestly, I don't really look the talent and level of competition. The #1 thing I kept hearing about Wentz was his level of competition. I mean, if you can play football, you can play football.
I cringe whenever I hear someone say the talent around Allen was suspect and he'll probably be better in the pros. It's not like he was facing NFL caliber defenses with college level talent. Allen should have been better... Perhaps he should have stayed in college another year.
Allen may pan out but the risk of drafting him #1 overall is way too high... it's much higher of a risk than Rosen, or Darnold or Mayfield or even Jackson or Rudolph. Using the #1 pick on Allen just doesn't make sense when you have a better chance of landing a great quarterback by selecting almost anyone else.
YOU need to stop. My post was a direct response to the link to NFL.com you provided about Allen. And I don't care what kind of 'dialogue' you're looking to have.
I think Allen is not good - HE SUCKS!! - and in a subsequent post, I explained why I feel that way.
Oh when you said to razor that 'you're a better poster than that', don't think I missed the insult toward me.
Now why don't you go and gather up some more stats, and post them here. Meanwhile, I'll be formulating my own conclusions based upon the opinions of QB evaluators that I trust -a couple of them post on this board, in fact.
And my own eyeballs... cuz I know a crappy QB when I see one. I should, I've been a a Browns fan long enough.
Why do I trust their opinions, you might ask? Why, I'd be delighted to tell you. Because they've been right far more often than not with respect to QB evaluations over the years. Say hi to RG3 for me. What's he doing these days, Ed?
Did Elway dominate the Pac10? Did Marino dominate the independents? Did Brady dominate the Big 10? Did Brees dominate the Big 10?
No, no, no, and no and I could go on.
I like Allen because I can project what I think he can be at the next level. You cannot or do not wish too. Fine.
Did Elway dominate the Pac 10? I dunno. He was second in the Heisman Voting though, so i'd say he probably did
Marino holds most records at his school. He was elected into the College Football Hall Of Fame in 2002. I bet he was pretty freakin good
Brees, as someone said, holds a bunch of records.
So you've got Tom Brady, who played football at Univ of Michigan, against Big 10 Opponents. And he did well enough to get drafted.
Guess what, Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. While he proved everyone wrong, there's a reason he was.
If that's all you have, that's pretty miniscule man. Tom Brady.... 1 QB, the greatest find ever, in the entire NFL. And for goodness sake, he was playing tough college competition. Josh Allen, plays at Wyoming. Against MWAC Competition. He didn't dominate. His numbers aren't impressive.
Allen has potential, but is risky as heck for the number 1 pick. Huge Risk
Your taking things toooo seriously mate. Lighten up =) I still think Allen sucks though and I am being very serious. I've already done in depth posts as to why so I don't think I need to rehash it.
Good grief! We are all long-suffering fans of this cursed team. I started out liking Allen, then went to Rosen (on Vers' recommendation), then sorta crushed on Mayfield. Now I am back to Allen.
Why should any of us get so damn mad at someone else for liking a different QB? None of us know who is going to make it and who won't. And lately, I've been reading about the Rudolph kid ....
If this team is willing to let this kid learn, and if he CAN learn, Having Taylor and Stanton would put Allen in a good spot. If they draft him, I'm sure they saw something many don't.
YOU need to stop. My post was a direct response to the link to NFL.com you provided about Allen.
BULL.
You post like a hurt little child.
Are you that brittle that the posting of link causes you to have such a meltdown that you are now attacking me? Get a grip. Get a clue. Stop whining. Stop making [censored] up.
Hold on to something because i'm going to re-post the link for people that are actually interested and aren't afraid and threatened by more information. Move the sticks is going to release these for all the prospects and they're quite informative:
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks scout one of the biggest arms to come out of the college ranks, Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen. The guys speak with his college head coach (6:35) and his trainers leading up to the draft (16:39, 28:12) before they sit down with the former Cowboys QB himself (34:36). Which franchise should pick Allen? How is he fine-tuning his game heading into the NFL? Find out on this Move the Sticks 360 episode.
As far as the rest of your post. Like I said before, I didn't ask and don't care. Its got nothing to do with me nor my post. Move on. Troll on elsewhere.
I do think John Dorsey is seriously considering Josh Allen. Last year he traded up to get Patrick Mahomes. The QB with the strongest arm in that draft.
Couple that with Josh Allen having arguably the best off season of all the QB prospects. Had a real good senior bowl going 9 of 13 for 158 yards and 2 TD. Following that up by having a great combine and pro day. Then news started to spread how much higher he has tested in the IQ tests.
While I prefer Rosen or Darnold I think Dorsey and company are zeroing in on Allen.
1. Elway's first 3 years were comparable to Allen's numbers - who only played 2 years for the most part. Don't think Stanford ever won anything with Elway either. 2. Marino - 79 TDs and 69 TDs and 57.6 completion percentage in 4 years - domination, baby. 3. Brees 90 TDs and 45 Ints.
What do you know 2:1 TD to Int ratio just like Allen and guess what they all played 4 years to Allen's 2 years. You see, they all got better with experience and so will Allen in my opinion.
Just to be clear (again), I am on the Darnold bandwagon, but I am not so down on Allen as a lot of posters seem to be. Better hope Dorsey and company feel the same as you guys, but I am not so sure.
At this point I'm feeling that if they take Allen, I'm okay with it. If they take Darnold, I'm okay with it. If they take Rosen, I'm okay with it. If they take Mayfield, I'm okay with it. Heck, if they're 100% sold on Rudolph, I'm okay with that too because I really think all of them stand a great chance of being very good QBs in the NFL. Though Rosen's concussions still scare the crap outta me.
We'll disagree. Those guys were very good college players by the points that I made. Marino is in the College Hall of Fame, will Josh Allen ever sniff the College Hall of Fame?
Elway was a Heisman Candidate (2nd in voting). Brees won the Maxwell Award and finished third in Heisman Voting. He has records at Purdue.
Josh Allen is going to the NFL with none of that.
There's absolutely no argument, that I can see, that he should be the first overall pick. None. None at all. Like I've said, show me a good small school QB with his resume that's been successful as of late. Cause I can't find any. None.
He might look the part, but that's about it.
If we draft him, I'll suck it up, try to have faith in Dorsey, and try to deal with it. But right now, there's no way I can see how this guy can be selected number 1. No reason at all
You are posting at me that Josh Allen sucks for absolutely no reason and somehow that's my issue?
Its okay. Its your fault. Just move on.
Dude you're just getting annoying with your nonsense the last few days. I have made multiple posts on Allen that have nothing to do with you. If your reading the threads on him then you have seen me backing it up. I don't have to regurgitate everything over and over again every single time I make a post.
If you think his inability to move the football is great, if you think him being inaccurate with the football is great, if you think his inability to score is so great, well then the one with a problem is you. It's okay though just move on.
I do think John Dorsey is seriously considering Josh Allen. Last year he traded up to get Patrick Mahomes. The QB with the strongest arm in that draft.
Couple that with Josh Allen having arguably the best off season of all the QB prospects. Had a real good senior bowl going 9 of 13 for 158 yards and 2 TD. Following that up by having a great combine and pro day. Then news started to spread how much higher he has tested in the IQ tests.
While I prefer Rosen or Darnold I think Dorsey and company are zeroing in on Allen.
Taking Allen #1 will be a gigantic mistake.
Moving down to #2 for Beckham and taking Allen is a bigger mistake.
I cannot, and will not believe that Dorseys Crew is that Damn ignorant to pass on the likes of Darnold or Rosen for a QB that has PROVEN INNACURATE traits.
I don't give a Rats Ass what they THINK they can do with Allen's footwork to increase his accuracy, he STILL won't get above 65% in the NFL. It just DOES NOT happen.
I don't care WHAT Allen does in shorts. He will NEVER Consistently hit a guy in stride and he relies way to much on that arm and WAITS for guys to get open before even thinking about releasing it. That will NEVER fly in the NFL.
Don't matter what they do with footwork, he's NOT going to improve to NFL Standards for a Top QB.
NOONE can improve that Damn much.
Allen is NATURALLY INNACURATE.
For the First Time EVER, if we take Allen I'm going to be EMBARRASSED to be a Browns Fan.
For the First Time EVER, if we take Allen I'm going to be EMBARRASSED to be a Browns Fan.
Just curious ... were U the lead in your high school play for 3 or all 4 years of your HS career... or did all this drama come from a more recent acting experience ....
I do think John Dorsey is seriously considering Josh Allen. Last year he traded up to get Patrick Mahomes. The QB with the strongest arm in that draft.
Couple that with Josh Allen having arguably the best off season of all the QB prospects. Had a real good senior bowl going 9 of 13 for 158 yards and 2 TD. Following that up by having a great combine and pro day. Then news started to spread how much higher he has tested in the IQ tests.
While I prefer Rosen or Darnold I think Dorsey and company are zeroing in on Allen.
Taking Allen #1 will be a gigantic mistake.
Moving down to #2 for Beckham and taking Allen is a bigger mistake.
I cannot, and will not believe that Dorseys Crew is that Damn ignorant to pass on the likes of Darnold or Rosen for a QB that has PROVEN INNACURATE traits.
I don't give a Rats Ass what they THINK they can do with Allen's footwork to increase his accuracy, he STILL won't get above 65% in the NFL. It just DOES NOT happen.
I don't care WHAT Allen does in shorts. He will NEVER Consistently hit a guy in stride and he relies way to much on that arm and WAITS for guys to get open before even thinking about releasing it. That will NEVER fly in the NFL.
Don't matter what they do with footwork, he's NOT going to improve to NFL Standards for a Top QB.
NOONE can improve that Damn much.
Allen is NATURALLY INNACURATE.
For the First Time EVER, if we take Allen I'm going to be EMBARRASSED to be a Browns Fan.
I do think his accuracy % is lower based solely on the style of offense Wyoming ran. Allen throw the ball down the field. Wyoming did not utilize the bubble screen that is so popular in college as much as other QB's in the draft. The bubble screen inflates many college QB's accuracy %.
My main concern with Allen is his teams lack of competitiveness vs power 5 teams. I want to see big time prospects at mid majors raise the level of his team vs superior competition.
I think that is where his senior bowl performance was so important for him.
Where is it written (besides here on Dawgtalkers) that a guy with Jeff George's arm, Alex Smith's brain and Carson Wentz's attitude, who has never had top-flight, big-school coaching, cannot get better in the NFL? I'll get behind whichever guy Dorsey picks, because he is privy to a lot more information. All four (six?) of these guys are intriguing. But I will be ecstatic if we get Allen and either Chubb or Barkley. And Allen working with Stanton and Hue for a year would give him every chance to flourish.
Nothing is more annoying on an internet message board then poster's that fabricate arguments out of thin air. Its one thing to make a mistake. Every does that. But to willfully fabricate to make yourself look right is just about the worst thing you can do on a message board and puts you in a category of people that cannot be trusted.
I was not having a conversation with you in this thread about Allen. That is complete fabrication or you would simply quote it but you can't.
Lampdogg made a troll post in response to a link I posted from the Move the Stick podcast which I've reposted since you and lampdogg launched your personal attacks.
The rest is you guys posting at me about Allen for absolutely no reason. None. Your posts have 0 to do with the link I posted. And I didn't even make any commentary about the link.
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks scout one of the biggest arms to come out of the college ranks, Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen. The guys speak with his college head coach (6:35) and his trainers leading up to the draft (16:39, 28:12) before they sit down with the former Cowboys QB himself (34:36). Which franchise should pick Allen? How is he fine-tuning his game heading into the NFL? Find out on this Move the Sticks 360 episode.
Why does posting the above give you guys to post at me with completely unrelated crap and then the right to attack me? Then claim it was my fault, lol?
Any one following can see exactly what happened and make a judgement for themselves regardless of how you try to spin it in your posts.
But have it. Don't let the truth slow you down. I'm done.
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Originally Posted By: edromeo
You are posting at me that Josh Allen sucks for absolutely no reason and somehow that's my issue?
Its okay. Its your fault. Just move on.
Dude you're just getting annoying with your nonsense the last few days. I have made multiple posts on Allen that have nothing to do with you. If your reading the threads on him then you have seen me backing it up. I don't have to regurgitate everything over and over again every single time I make a post.
If you think his inability to move the football is great, if you think him being inaccurate with the football is great, if you think his inability to score is so great, well then the one with a problem is you. It's okay though just move on.
I do think John Dorsey is seriously considering Josh Allen. Last year he traded up to get Patrick Mahomes. The QB with the strongest arm in that draft.
Couple that with Josh Allen having arguably the best off season of all the QB prospects. Had a real good senior bowl going 9 of 13 for 158 yards and 2 TD. Following that up by having a great combine and pro day. Then news started to spread how much higher he has tested in the IQ tests.
While I prefer Rosen or Darnold I think Dorsey and company are zeroing in on Allen.
Well I wouldn't mind moving up to #10 to get Allen.
Problem is we are getting a QB at #1 and he just isn't in the running for that its not like this is a Gino Smith class or something. Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen are special QBs.
Just say no to drugs. Right now Allen is a drug not a QB.
Agreed, All the QB's in this draft have flaws but with hard work and good coaching they can improve. IMO there are no less than 6 prospects in this draft that can become good to very good NFL QB's. Even some of the 2nd tier guys don't look bad. As always some will do well some not. Time will tell.
Obviously it would be a surprise if Allen went #1 overall or was the 1st QB selected because he doesn't have the production to warrant that selection.
No one even references the games anymore but if you watch Allen's game you can see everything....both the good and the bad. He makes throws that less then a handful of NFL QBs can make. He also misses routine passes that any college QB should make.
Evaluation is about grading numerous factors. I think if people focus on 1 aspect as 'thee' measure of success or failure then imho they are not making a complete evaluation. But, i get that some people believe the 56% = bust. And for those people the conversation starts and ends there. I agree that Allen's accuracy and completion don't warrant the #1 pick. But if you're looking at him as overall prospects he without question has some elite traits. Athleticism. Size. Playmaking.
The team that selects Allen is taking a huge risk. They are betting on potential. Make no mistake Allen's potential is rare. He has similar traits to other 'inaccurate' QBs like Joe Flacco (SB), Cam Newton (NFL MVP). Allen's draft stock is bolster a lot by Carson Wentz. Allen is stronger armed, more athletic version of Wentz both played Bohl's offense that features NFL style concepts and more under center stuff then most other prospects. But Allen didn't have Wentz production. Even in Allen's 'good' year where his qb rating was 145 w/ 28 TDs and 8.3 YPA he still only managed a comp% of 56% and threw 15 ints.
This isn't to advocate for Allen as the top QB prospect. He's not my top prospect, nor do I think he warrants selection at pick #1. But I can see the reasons why he's should be considered one of the top 5 prospects.
