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Sam Darnold - QB - Player

USC QB Sam Darnold said he has no plans to change his throwing motion.

Some scouts have critiqued his long throwing motion but Darnold isn't worried about his mechanics. "The motion I have is what got me to this point, and I really haven’t gotten into trouble with it," said Darnold. "My throwing motion is fine." Darnold is at the Combine but won't throw until his Pro Day at USC. Josh Norris had Darnold going to Cleveland with the first overall pick in his latest mock draft.

Source: NFL.comMar 2 - 6:06 PM




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j/c:

It's weird, but I could have sworn I read that he was working w/someone on his throwing motion. Did anyone else see that or am I confused?

I am not sure what to think about these latest comments. Is he unwilling to improve his motion? Is he coachable? Did he not think that he threw too many interceptions and fumbled too much? Is Darnold making some bad decisions leading up to the draft?

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Yea, it’s a mystery for sure. And I like Darnold.

It would’ve been nice to see him throw today with the other guys, but...hey man I dunno.


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And I guess it’s dependent on the player.

If somebody like Rosen said he’s throwing motion is fine, you don’t think twice about it, ya know? But Darnold? He hasn’t even been a QB that long.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

It's weird, but I could have sworn I read that he was working w/someone on his throwing motion. Did anyone else see that or am I confused?

I am not sure what to think about these latest comments. Is he unwilling to improve his motion? Is he coachable? Did he not think that he threw too many interceptions and fumbled too much? Is Darnold making some bad decisions leading up to the draft?


He HAS worked on it.

I'm not going to look it up, but it's been said he's cut over 1/2 second off his release.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

It's weird, but I could have sworn I read that he was working w/someone on his throwing motion. Did anyone else see that or am I confused?

I am not sure what to think about these latest comments. Is he unwilling to improve his motion? Is he coachable? Did he not think that he threw too many interceptions and fumbled too much? Is Darnold making some bad decisions leading up to the draft?


Tweaking it is different than changing it. He did that already:

https://www.dailynews.com/2017/08/15/usc-qb-sam-darnold-raves-about-shorter-throwing-motion/

His QB coach there @ USC said the passes were getting out quicker and the "loop" or rainbow of his motion was shorter. Biggest take away is the other mechanics, like hip motion and etc, he also addressed. Shortening the motion was to avoid future injuries too, so he's done "something" about it, but he hasn't fully changed anything. Or said he was going to "change" it completely.

I think if he can improve those things too, the fundamentals, he'll have a bit better of a crisp/faster release. I mean, it's not Tim Tebow, so I'm not going to worry much. He'll come, do the infamous Tom House meet, get here and have Hue, Ken and etc to aide in those fundamentals. I don't think any team that is to draft Sam is going to want to change his motion, it's who he is.

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I thought he did go to House for a session. There are some with house that preach dont change the motion and then change the footwork,
The acceleration you know work on his not his motion...lol

Im curious hkw they feel about Rosen. Cause they know who their guy is. AJ is key as that would eliminate any health fear with Rosen as he will have hopefully a full year n then off season with our training guys before he wins the 2019 starting job!

True story all. About 1 hour ago at the hospital an aide, big guy, comes waling to my door and yells out "Dawgpound" the nurse was angry at him for saying that n he goes no he's a dawgpound guy pointjng at my Browns neck pillow...and we spent a good 1/2 hour falking Browns,he was excited.

So he said he was from another unit but heard about my pillow n had to see me...lol

He mived here as a kid n hated the Giant Jet fans n teams so he was looking for a team n falling in love with our defense that started the dawgpound.
SO he leaves yelling to the unit, TAKE CARE OF THIS GUY N GET HIM OUT OF HERE!

Got to love it, times are changing!


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I don't want to get into semantics. The two reports seem to be conflicting accounts of what is going on w/his throwing motion.

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The only thing i have seen is someone postulated that that was why he wasn’t throwing at the combine


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I posted that. But, I did so because I could have sworn I read that he was working on his throwing motion. Are you saying I am confused about that?

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Hmmmmm.........maybe I am confused. I could have sworn I read that on one of these threads, but I just did a search and he was working on his throwing motion this past summer. Perhaps that was posted recently and I assumed that he was working on improving his motion after the season and before the draft.

My apologies.

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I don't know why, but my perception is that Sam Darnold has fallen behind this week. I've always wanted Rosen over him, but I think now I would want Lamar Jackson and maybe even Josh Allen instead of him.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I don't know why, but my perception is that Sam Darnold has fallen behind this week. I've always wanted Rosen over him, but I think now I would want Lamar Jackson and maybe even Josh Allen instead of him.


Your perception of what the media is telling you?


I really don't see how he could have fallen other than what you saw in the interviews disappointed you.


Throwing at the combine and pro-day means nothing when it comes to the most important attributes. Accuracy and anticipation. And IMO it's tough to really judge those except in game situations.


Throwing at the combine and Pro-Day is basically like running routes when there isn't 11 defenders on the field contesting you when you throw the ball. Might as well be playing catch.



Rosen's my number one guy. Baker and Darnold are 2 and 3. Allen 4.

Combine doesn't change that for me. I see arm strength and durability as boxes to check. Manning and Brees and Brady didn't have rocket arms.



I read this stuff on Allen, and I just start thinking Paxton Lynch

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It was the interviews that I saw.

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Originally Posted By: PeteyDangerous
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I don't know why, but my perception is that Sam Darnold has fallen behind this week. I've always wanted Rosen over him, but I think now I would want Lamar Jackson and maybe even Josh Allen instead of him.


Your perception of what the media is telling you?


I really don't see how he could have fallen other than what you saw in the interviews disappointed you.


Throwing at the combine and pro-day means nothing when it comes to the most important attributes. Accuracy and anticipation. And IMO it's tough to really judge those except in game situations.


Throwing at the combine and Pro-Day is basically like running routes when there isn't 11 defenders on the field contesting you when you throw the ball. Might as well be playing catch.



Rosen's my number one guy. Baker and Darnold are 2 and 3. Allen 4.

Combine doesn't change that for me. I see arm strength and durability as boxes to check. Manning and Brees and Brady didn't have rocket arms.



I read this stuff on Allen, and I just start thinking Paxton Lynch


I do not see Darnold falling back but I did see Allen improve his stock today.


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Originally Posted By: Day of the Dawg
Originally Posted By: PeteyDangerous
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I don't know why, but my perception is that Sam Darnold has fallen behind this week. I've always wanted Rosen over him, but I think now I would want Lamar Jackson and maybe even Josh Allen instead of him.


Your perception of what the media is telling you?


I really don't see how he could have fallen other than what you saw in the interviews disappointed you.


Throwing at the combine and pro-day means nothing when it comes to the most important attributes. Accuracy and anticipation. And IMO it's tough to really judge those except in game situations.


Throwing at the combine and Pro-Day is basically like running routes when there isn't 11 defenders on the field contesting you when you throw the ball. Might as well be playing catch.



Rosen's my number one guy. Baker and Darnold are 2 and 3. Allen 4.

Combine doesn't change that for me. I see arm strength and durability as boxes to check. Manning and Brees and Brady didn't have rocket arms.



I read this stuff on Allen, and I just start thinking Paxton Lynch


I do not see Darnold falling back but I did see Allen improve his stock today.


I think all these QBs (Rosen, Darnold, Allen, and Mayfield) were always going high.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
It was the interviews that I saw.


Fair enough. Just keep in mind, these guys are very young. And Manziel was pretty good at an interview.

I'd rather have a guy uncomfortable around a camera and comfortable as heck on the field winning football games than the other way around.


It's like my buddy. Wasn't school smart. Had trouble finding the words in a discussion sometimes. But when he was on a playing field, he just got it. He was a really good LBer. I think he still has some records in CT for tackles. And he was an even better Lacrosse Player

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Originally Posted By: PeteyDangerous
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
It was the interviews that I saw.


Fair enough. Just keep in mind, these guys are very young. And Manziel was pretty good at an interview.

I'd rather have a guy uncomfortable around a camera and comfortable as heck on the field winning football games than the other way around.


It's like my buddy. Wasn't school smart. Had trouble finding the words in a discussion sometimes. But when he was on a playing field, he just got it.


I understand that. If given both choices though, and both are good players, I'd take the guy who is very polished.

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The first time i saw it, whoever post said:

I would guess that he isn’t throwing because he is changing his motion. They made it clear they were just guessing (at least to me ). Perhaps someone repeated it more as a fact and then it took off from here.

I had not heard anything from the mainstream media

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Originally Posted By: Jester
The first time i saw it, whoever post said:

I would guess that he isn’t throwing because he is changing his motion. They made it clear they were just guessing (at least to me ). Perhaps someone repeated it more as a fact and then it took off from here.

I had not heard anything from the mainstream media


Darnold said in his interviews that he is not changing his throwing motion.

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I've always preferred Rosen and still do. I am now at the point where I think I would take Mayfield next. He has really impressed me this week, and was bigger than I thought. Darnold is a good prospect, but I worry about his decision making, and I would want him to change that goofy throwing motion. If he doesn't want to then I wouldn't consider taking him.


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j/c:

I think Darnold may have fallen a bit this week. His decision not to throw in a year where every other qb is throwing was odd and combined w/him saying he isn't changing his motion makes one wonder about where his head is at.

Compare that to Rosen, who has a much, much better motion and is working w/Tom House to even get better.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

I think Darnold may have fallen a bit this week. His decision not to throw in a year where every other qb is throwing was odd and combined w/him saying he isn't changing his motion makes one wonder about where his head is at.

Compare that to Rosen, who has a much, much better motion and is working w/Tom House to even get better.


Darnold is working on things with Jordan Palmer. Palmer is very highly regarded too. It's not like he isn't working on cleaning up his mechanics. He probably is making small improvements without actually changing it. Little things to improve what you're doing without reinventing the wheel.

Surely he told reporters pretty much what he was probably told


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From what I understood Darnold was working on keeping the ball up and not dropping it, also keeping both hands on the ball, but didn’t read where he was working on the motion itself. Wether that’s actually the case I can’t truly say. But that’s how I read it. I

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Darnold was my choice of the college QBs but I just don't understand why a QB would not want to compete against the other QBs? I think that decision may hurt him in as far as being taken #1. Dorsey and co. are looking for competitors. Not a good look.


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I think we're all saying the same thing....just using different terms Darnold is certainly working on 'cleaning stuff up' with his throwing process in prep for his pro-day.

I get it....still dont like that he didn't throw...and no i don't think it will lower his grade....i justed wanted to see him throw side by side with the other guys.

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Who knows ... maybe Dorsey all ready told him ... or maybe Hue texted him that he’s going #1 ... naughtydevil ...




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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

It's weird, but I could have sworn I read that he was working w/someone on his throwing motion. Did anyone else see that or am I confused?

I am not sure what to think about these latest comments. Is he unwilling to improve his motion? Is he coachable? Did he not think that he threw too many interceptions and fumbled too much? Is Darnold making some bad decisions leading up to the draft?




If there's any tinkering to be done with Sam Darnold's throwing motion, it'll be up to the team that drafts him to do so. The former USC quarterback isn't changing anything, despite scouting concerns that his delivery can be too elongated.

"I'm not trying to change my throwing motion at all. I think I get the ball off pretty quick. There is kind of a wind-up, but I think I get it off quick and that's what matters," Darnold said.

NFL.com



“It’s the No. 1 priority of a quarterback is to protect the football,” Darnold said Friday. “I’m aware of that and I’m aware of how much I turn the ball over and that it’s not OK. I’ve been addressing it this offseason and I’ve been working on keeping two hands [on the ball] in the pocket at all times. The only time I let go of the ball is to throw it. That’s something I’ve really been working on, and also keeping it tight whenever I tuck it and run.”

cleveland.com


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

I think Darnold may have fallen a bit this week. His decision not to throw in a year where every other qb is throwing was odd and combined w/him saying he isn't changing his motion makes one wonder about where his head is at.

Compare that to Rosen, who has a much, much better motion and is working w/Tom House to even get better.


Here's an article from July 2017 describing Darnold working with Jordan Palmer. Palmer does a good job explaining Darnold's throwing motion and what they worked on to tweak it a bit.



DANA POINT — When Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN’s longtime NFL draft expert, published his first 2018 mock draft, he pegged Sam Darnold as the top selection.

It included one footnote about the USC quarterback.

“He does have an unorthodox, long delivery, however, that will have to be retooled,” Kiper wrote.

Analysts over the past year have remarked on the loopy motion Darnold makes when he throws a pass, akin to a baseball player playing long-toss by grabbing the ball out of his mitt and dropping his arm back to start a windy circular movement.

Darnold presented his own baseball analogy after a recent workout. As if he were an infielder prepared to scoop up a grounder, Darnold crouched for a second. He slightly dropped his left arm, ready to simulate the transfer of the ball between his mitt and his right hand. He brought his arm back and mimicked a quick throw to first base.

“It’s just kind of natural for me,” Darnold said.

Through his freshman year at San Clemente High, Darnold was a baseball player. He was predominantly in the lineup as an outfielder for the Tritons, but had also played third base, catcher and pitcher.

Darnold said his windup was akin to NFL quarterback Jameis Winston, who was also a pitcher and outfielder at Florida State. Winston retooled a similarly elongated throwing motion after he was drafted by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2015.

Although Darnold made plenty of throws look effortless in his first season as a starter, leading the Trojans as a redshirt freshman to their first Rose Bowl victory in almost a decade, he eyes adjustments before training camp begins in late July.


He plans for his loopy motion to be a little less so.

Jordan Palmer, his Orange County-based private quarterback coach and the younger brother of USC’s former Heisman Trophy winner Carson Palmer, described it as his “circle.”

“His circle is, when your hands come apart, the ball comes down a little bit, and then it starts to come back up and then it goes all the way up behind your head and it goes forward when you throw,” Palmer said. “Right now, Sam’s circle is bigger than it needs to be.”

WORK IN PROGRESS

Palmer, a former NFL quarterback who runs an offseason training program known as QB Summit, noticed the quirk in Darnold’s delivery after last season and proposed a couple tweaks, though cautioned the changes were not drastic.

“I’m not overhauling or changing anything,” Palmer said. “I’m just trying to help him make something more efficient.”

They started last month.

“He knows the success I’ve had,” Darnold said, “but it’s never enough. You can always get better.”

Darnold first met Palmer as a high school sophomore. He was attending a workout put together by Bob Bosanko, the tutor for a swarm of San Clemente High quarterbacks and Palmer’s offensive coordinator at Mission Viejo High a decade earlier.

They continued to forge a bond the following summer, in 2014, when Darnold was invited to the Elite 11 Quarterback Competition. Palmer was a counselor. They have worked out together since. Palmer lives in Dana Point near Darnold’s parents’ home in Capistrano Beach.

FINDING POSITIVES

For the young passer, a shortened throwing motion offers some benefits. Palmer emphasized two.

With a shortened delivery, Darnold should put less stress on his arm — this fall and in the seasons ahead — serving as a preventive measure against injuries. Jordan noted his brother, Carson, has battled elbow injuries throughout his NFL career, in part due to a heavy reliance on his arm.

A second benefit could come with improved accuracy. A tighter motion could produce passes with a little extra zip and more consistent placement.

“Sam has all the hard stuff,” Palmer said, noting his instinctive style that often sparked breathtaking big plays. “I think this is the answer for helping him execute all the simple stuff over and over again.”

The simple stuff is the high-percentage throws that, Palmer believes, could be completed at an even higher rate — a quick pass to a running back in the flat, just a couple yards past the line of scrimmage, or a stick route, where a tight end hurries about five yards downfield before cutting toward the sideline. Can he deliver every throw on time? Last season, Darnold completed 67 percent of his passes.

In order for Darnold to compress his “circle,” start with his arms.

Before the quarterback prepares to make a throw, he typically uses both hands to hold the ball. As he scans for an open receiver, it rests in front of his sternum. Once he spots an open target, he drops his right arm back.

At this point, Darnold makes his loop. To shorten it, Palmer thinks he can reach a 90-degree angle more quickly, a faster windup developed through repetition this offseason.

“I’ve done it before,” Darnold said, “to create muscle memory to do things or not to do things. I think if I can just continue to work on it, it’ll improve, you know?”

CORE MESSAGE

An accelerated delivery also comes with more hip movement.

On a Friday evening in late May, Darnold gathered with more than a dozen other college and high school passers to work out with Palmer over the Memorial Day weekend.

They stood in pairs, facing each other about 10 yards apart, on one end of the Dana Hills High football field. Darnold was across from Josh Allen, Wyoming’s quarterback.

Palmer introduced one drill he observed three years ago from recently retired Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler. As if he was standing in a pocket, his body parallel to the sideline, Palmer threw a pass, thrusting his right hip forward.

“I want this hip to be in front of the shoulder when the throw is finished,” Palmer told them.

Of course, Cutler had a strong right arm, but he also relied on his hips for some of the strength behind his throws.

“Your core is the strongest, most coordinated, most explosive muscle group in the body,” Palmer said. “I want to incorporate that and use all that energy, so firing my hip creates that energy.”

Thus, more emphasis on core would alleviate pressure on the arm, the thinking goes.

Before Darnold’s throwing motion is destined to be scrutinized by countless draft analysts and NFL front offices, perhaps as soon as next spring, his hope is a quicker delivery can first take effect this fall, helping USC to meet its ambitious preseason expectations.

“None of this has to do with the NFL at all,” Palmer said. “This is all about winning a national championship. That is the only thing this guy cares about. We haven’t had a single conversation about the NFL other than to agree it’s there and it’s down the road and it doesn’t even matter.

“He should be dead set on winning a national championship. And that’s all him.”

the OCR Register


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not that it matters it is Rosen who is the QB who went to Tom House...thought it was Darnold...my bad.


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Quote:
"I'm not trying to change my throwing motion at all. I think I get the ball off pretty quick. There is kind of a wind-up, but I think I get it off quick and that's what matters," Darnold said


That's what I saw in his tape. I see the chatter about his long, loopy throw but I don't see that. I see him get it out quickly once he commits.


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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Who knows ... maybe Dorsey all ready told him ... or maybe Hue texted him that he’s going #1 ... naughtydevil ...



Bingo. That's very Observant of you. Lol

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I have posted Darnold with sports science on espn. They quoted his improvement in release time.

This is such a non issue to me in the big picture.

The same was said about Wentz.

Judge his results and leadership. Find out if he fits within the coaching culture.

I am not concerned about Darnold. I knew this microscopic view was going to happen.

Go back a watch what he does under pressure.

Look at his accuracy numbers in the pocket, on the move,
under pass rush pressure.

That is what is important.

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Originally Posted By: bonefish
I have posted Darnold with sports science on espn. They quoted his improvement in release time.

This is such a non issue to me in the big picture.

The same was said about Wentz.

Judge his results and leadership. Find out if he fits within the coaching culture.

I am not concerned about Darnold. I knew this microscopic view was going to happen.

Go back a watch what he does under pressure.

Look at his accuracy numbers in the pocket, on the move,
under pass rush pressure.

That is what is important.


That's where I saw it a month ago. Thanks for the refreshed memory.

He shaved almost a half second off delivery. That's BIG.

I have ZERO issue with his delivery. ZERO.

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I can't count the coaching clinics I have been a part of regarding pitching mechanics. You work with what is there. You can tighten things up. You can't change their entire motion.

There are many ways to do almost anything. You can only do so much. But in the end; what are the results?

I hate Brian Shaws mechanics. He steps closed and throws across his body. But that is him. He got to the Majors and has had success. You would never teach what he does.

Darnold? I don't see a big problem.

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j/c:

Can you imagine the uproar if Josh Rosen would have chosen not to throw at the Combine and said he was unwilling to change something in his mechanics?

We now have people saying Rosen can't throw to his right and that he had a bad Combine.

I can't take much more of this nonsense.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

Can you imagine the uproar if Josh Rosen would have chosen not to throw at the Combine and said he was unwilling to change something in his mechanics?

We now have people saying Rosen can't throw to his right and that he had a bad Combine.

I can't take much more of this nonsense.


I like both Rosen and Darnold and would be very happy with both. I would be less excited for Allen but after yesterday I have started to re think my position on him.

With that said I do feel that Rosen checks the most boxes and if the Browns staff thoroughly confirm that there are no concussion concerns going forward. He should be the pick. I am concerned about his concussion history. I know from my child's college playing days that the number of concussions a person gets and the longer it takes to recover are huge concerns. Once a person has more than one it becomes easier to get more and the longer it takes to recover from a severe concussion the worse the next one will be.

This is an important box that must be confirmed before signing the card and taken his name to the commish.


"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
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Just to be clear. I didn't post that to knock Darnold. I just get tired of all the negative stuff written about Rosen while others get excuses made for them.

I'm telling you.....if Rosen wouldn't have thrown, people would say he doesn't love football and doesn't like to compete. If Rosen would have said he wasn't changing something because what he does has worked well in the past, people would say he is arrogant and uncoachable.

The dude throws, runs, and interviews well at the Combine and people are still dissing him while excusing others.

Last edited by Versatile Dog; 03/04/18 08:26 PM.
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