DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Do We Do Now?

Didn't know where to put this, so I thought a discussion of potential future moves might be warranted. I will be sick if we don't take a QB #1, hopefully that doesn't happen. I'd also love to grab Allen Robinson.


Cleveland Browns: Trades, free agency, QBs

By Terry Pluto

The Plain Dealer terrypluto2003@yahoo.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Talking to a few executives, they doubt the Cleveland Browns will take Penn State running back Saquon Barkley with the No. 1 pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.

The word "shocked" came up.

The consensus was that John Dorsey was hired to find the long-term answer at quarterback. The previous front office was replaced partly because they failed to do so.

So why would the new general manager have a chance to grab any quarterback in the draft -- that's right, anyone available -- and take a running back instead?

This is not the 2013 draft, where the top quarterbacks were EJ Manuel (No. 16, Buffalo Bills), Geno Smith (No. 39, N.Y. Jets) and Mike Glennon (No. 73, Tampa Bay Buccaneers).

There are real quarterbacks available at the top of the first round. Four are expected to go very high: Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield.

"I also think Mason Rudolph could be a starter on the right team," said one executive. "He could go in the first round."

Rudolph played in a pass-obsessed system at Oklahoma State. He'll have to learn the pro game, much like Jared Goff did. They both came out of the "Air Raid" offenses where a quarterback doesn't huddle up and is seldom under center.

That alone won't scare Dorsey. Last year, he traded up in the 2017 draft to pick Patrick Mahomes at No. 10 for the Kansas City Chiefs. At Texas Tech, Mahomes played in an offense similar to Rudolph's at Oklahoma State.

This is not to say the Browns are drafting Rudolph.

It is to say Dorsey will not write off a quarterback simply because of the offense.

In the top quarterbacks, Allen (Wyoming) and Rosen (UCLA) played in more pro-style offenses where they were under center at least 30 percent of the time.

Darnold (USC) and Mayfield (Oklahoma) were under center in fewer than 5 percent of their plays. Those stats came from Daniel Jeremiah (NFL.com).

I don't see the Browns taking Lamar Jackson, but I bet someone does grab the intriguing athletic quarterback from Louisville in the top 32 picks.

That's right, up to six quarterbacks in the first round -- and it's hard to imagine the Browns refusing to take one with the top pick.

Meanwhile, the addition of Tyrod Taylor allows them to not rush the rookie into action.

ABOUT DESHONE KIZER

After the Browns traded for Tyrod Taylor, it made some sense that they'd deal DeShone Kizer. That's another indication they plan to take a quarterback at the top of the draft.

Kizer was shipped to Green Bay for cornerback Damarious Randall.

Here is something interesting from Ryan Wood and Tom Silverstein, who write for packersnews.com:

"The Packers have long studied Kizer... Hours before the NFL draft's second round last spring, a source told PackersNews.com the Packers were tempted to draft Kizer with their 33rd overall pick, which they eventually used on cornerback Kevin King."

I don't know if Kizer will become a viable NFL starter. I do know it would have helped his career to be drafted by Green Bay a year ago, where he could have been in the same quarterback room with Aaron Rodgers and Brett Hundley.

Then Kizer would not have been forced into action for Game 1 with a terrible team.

But here's an interesting point: Two members of that 2017 Green Bay front office (Eliot Wolf and Alonzo Highsmith) are now with the Browns. And they were part of the group that traded Kizer to Green Bay.

They received defensive back Damarious Randall. They were part of the Green Bay front office that took him in the first round in 2015.

The Browns have to decide if they want to pick up Randall's option (about $8 million) for 2019 by May 3.

If not, he could become a free agent after the 2018 season. It is complicated.

The Browns are desperate for defensive backs. Randall had some clashes with coaches and had hand surgery after the season. He is expected to be healthy by training camp.

ABOUT FREE AGENCY

1. The Browns used their surplus salary cap room and their rich chest of draft picks to add three veterans before free agency opened: Landry, Taylor and Randall. The cost: Picks 65 and 123 in 2018 and a seventh-rounder in 2019. The Browns and Packers reportedly will flip some fourth-and-fifth round picks.

2. The Browns also dealt Kizer. That leaves them with Cody Kessler, Kevin Hogan and Taylor in the quarterback room right now. Hogan was drafted by Dorsey in the fifth round of the 2016 draft. But Dorsey also cut him, and he was picked up by the Browns.

3. No AJ McCarron for the Browns. Just be glad the Browns didn't deal the second- and third-round picks at midseason to the Cincinnati Bengals for McCarron. After the season, McCarron won his case to be a free agent.

4. Yes, the Browns added Taylor (a far more experienced quarterback) for less (a third-round pick) than it would have cost them to deal for McCarron.

5. Evan Silva tweeted the fourth-round pick sent to Miami as part of the package for Landry can be traced back to punter Andy Lee. The Sashi Brown front office traded Lee to Carolina for that selection.

6. So the Browns still have their two first-round picks and their three second-round picks in the draft. They no longer have a third-round pick.

7. Despite adding Randall, the Browns still need defensive backs. Two free agent names: Trumaine Johnson and Bashaud Breeland. Johnson played for current Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams when both were with the Rams. Breeland was with Washington when Browns consultant Scot McCloughan was their general manager. Malcolm Butler also is a possibility.

8. Landry is mostly an inside slot receiver. The Browns need another big wide receiver. There's always Terrelle Pryor, who is a free agent. The Browns must make sure his surgically repaired ankle is sound. That led to his disappointing 2017 season in Washington -- and eventual surgery.

9. Do the Browns pay huge money for Landry? He is not a big-play receiver. But as I wrote, 220 of his 400 career catches were for first downs. He has played every game in his four-year pro career. They have the money and need his durability.

10. Yes, the Browns have Josh Gordon. But Gordon has not played all 16 games since his rookie year of 2012. He has dealt with some type of suspension in every other season. I want more receivers.

11. Allen Robinson is the hottest name as a free agent receiver. He's coming off ACL knee surgery. The previous two seasons, he caught 153 passes good for 20 TDs. He's only 24. Despite the knee surgery, huge dollars will be coming to the 6-foot-3, 211-pound receiver. I wonder if the Browns will spend big for him. I bet they do more bargain shopping with someone such as Pryor, especially after the trade for Landry.

12. After all the deals, the Browns still should have at least $80 million left in salary cap space.

13. I wonder if seeing the Browns add some talented veterans will convince Joe Thomas to come back and play in 2018. He has been trying to decide if he'll play one more season. Thomas tweeted: "Browns are en fuego! Here's to John Dorsey!!"

14. On one of his podcasts in late February, Thomas said: "Tyrod Taylor is the most underrated guy in free agency ... I like him better than all those second-tier guys."

15. Thomas was talking about free agent quarterbacks after Kirk Cousins -- even though, Taylor was not a free agent. But Taylor is now a Brown, and that should make Joe Thomas very happy.

Link

Now that's encouraging!

It would be interesting to know, past Cousins, who Thomas thinks is first-tier and second-tier.

They still need a corner and I prefer another WRer. I think RB has to come through the draft and I would prefer another IDL.

Breeland and any mid tier WRer in FA. May even take a flier on Carlos Hyde. Not a fan of Tre Boston.

we need to:

1. Zero in on the best QB to draft at the top
2. Sure up the secondary
3. Acquire/draft a RB


Those are the top 3 IMO. Whether it gets done via trade, FA, or draft

Barkley at 1 and Mayfield at 4.

Tyrod Taylor gives the Browns a better bridge QB than AJ McCarron

By Bud Shaw, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Tyrod Taylor is an upgrade for the Browns in practice and in theory -- the theory being this regime would target former Bengals quarterback AJ McCarron in free agency.

Taylor is the anti-DeShone Kizer for his ability to limit turnovers. He doesn't take many chances. After watching so many Browns drives die in the red zone, that's the good news. The bad? He doesn't take many chances.

But we can say he's better than what they had in 2017 and better than the veteran we thought they might trot out behind center next season. As long as he's just a placeholder, there is not much fault to find in the deal that sent a third-round pick to Buffalo for a quarterback who immediately increases the QB room win total from zero to 23.

Trading for Taylor shouldn't change draft strategy. It might even fit together more seamlessly now, assuming (which is always dangerous) the idea is to draft prototypical size and upside in USC's Sam Darnold or Wyoming's Josh Allen and give them the fighting chance this organization never gave Kizer.

Darnold or Allen could actually sit and learn for a year with little or no drum beat for them to be forced into the huddle to attempt to win for a coach who lugs a 1-31 record into his third season.

Hue Jackson needed Kizer to win games, or so we thought. The stress of whether he would keep his job didn't leave Jackson's face until after he knew he had ownership support in the overzealous pursuit of McCarron.

The Browns would've (unhappily) given up second-round and third-round draft picks in that deal for McCarron. Now they get a better quarterback in Taylor for the lesser of those two picks.

Couldn't they have procured McCarron for money alone and kept that pick? Maybe, but McCarron is less proven than Taylor and also less talented.

Did McCarron not interest GM John Dorsey as much as he interested Jackson? Hard to say. But if the Browns got the impression McCarron was leery to sign here knowing the Browns wanted to pick a quarterback at No. 1 or No. 4 next month, that's good because it means that is still the plan.

We can't know for sure until we see what happens in free agency with McCarron and in the draft. What we can say is the Browns have answered half of the quarterback equation for 2018. They can now draft, develop and be patient with a quarterback whose talent gives him a chance to be the answer here for a long time.

Tyrod Taylor wasn't going to be that in Buffalo. He isn't that here.

Darnold, Allen, Josh Rosen or Baker Mayfield could still be that for the Browns.

Now there is no reason to rush a rookie quarterback, but just as much reason to draft one.

Running back vs. QB at No. 1 for the Browns really isn't that difficult

By Bud Shaw, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Ki-Jana Carter is a successful businessman. He also has done some work as a sports blogger.

He was a Heisman Trophy runner-up at Penn State who tore up his knee in his first preseason with the Bengals. He'll turn 45 in September.

I mention that only because in the 23 years since Cincinnati picked Carter at the top of the 1995 draft, no running back has gone No. 1 overall. It's happened just twice since 1986. The other time: guy named Bo Jackson.

This "Where Are They Now?' has been brought to you by the Committee Against Drafting a Running Back No. 1.

Let's be clear. Carter ripped up his ACL. He might've been great. This is not a slam on him. It's about the position he played.

It's about longevity, attrition and value.

We're not saying Saquon Barkley won't have a longer, more distinguished career than Carter. In making the case for the Browns to finally take their quarterback at No. 1 and not let any other team dictate the choice, we won't cast a net over Carter and Barkley (or even Blair Thomas) and claim they're even remotely the same kind of running back.

We won't further cast that net over the only other Penn State player to go No. 1 overall (Courtney Brown) and question Nittany Lions DNA.

(Though, we are tempted to mention the year (1998) the Bears took Penn State's Curtis Enis No. 5 overall. But only because, he, too, tore up his knee after one start and retired at age 24.

The first two picks in that '98 draft were quarterbacks. The Colts got Peyton Manning. The Chargers got Ryan Leaf. So QBs hunting is a scattershot exercise, too.

I thought I'd mention that before you did. But even if we can't agree on the consensus best quarterback in the 2018 draft, we can at least agree a quarter century (almost) is a long time and that maybe -- just maybe -- teams don't draft running backs No. 1 for good reason.

Since Carter, 14 quarterbacks have gone No. 1. The rest of the count: four defensive ends, three offensive tackles and a wide receiver.

In a dialogue with "Talk It Out" readers this week I heard from many fans who want Barkley at No. 1 especially after he excelled at the scouting combine. Their reasoning: the top four quarterbacks on many mock draft lists all have issues - Josh Rosen (durability), Sam Darnold (turnovers), Baker Mayfield (height) and Josh Allen (inaccuracy).

So why not take Barkley No. 1 and then take a QB at No. 4?

Sure they have flaws. They're college quarterbacks. They play the hardest position in sports. That's no reason to shy from identifying, drafting and developing a talented quarterback who can lead your franchise for the next 10 years.

The Browns have a new front office of John Dorsey, Eliot Wolf, Alonzo Highsmith and consultant Scot McCloughan. Andrew Berry is a well-respected holdover. To think they're no more capable of discerning the differences between QB candidates than we are is self-serving fantasy. The Eagles made that determination about Carson Wentz and boldly traded up for him.

The Browns don't have to do anything except stay where they are and draft their franchise QB.

They are up there for a reason. The T-shirt listing all the starters since 1999 is longer than the train of a wedding gown. I'm surprised fans aren't clamoring in unison for a remedy at the game's most important position.

The best-available player notion has always been skewed toward the needs of the team making the pick. Besides, positions are ranked by value. Always have been.

Despite the recent production of Leonard Fournette, Ezekiel Elliott and Todd Gurley - all taken high in the first round - don't fool yourself. More great running backs are found deeper in the draft than are franchise quarterbacks. It's not close.

This draft is a good one for quarterbacks. It's good and deep for running backs.

I wouldn't take Barkley at No. 1 or No. 4, but then again Dorsey probably won't ask my opinion. As a sports blogger, Ki-Jana Carter might not be the best one to ask either. Surely, he believes he would've been dominant with better health.

And I doubt I changed your mind if you deciphered all the numbers from Barkley's combine workout and now dream of drafting a cross between Jim Brown and Gale Sayers.

But I would like to know what the Bengals would say all these years later. Their starting quarterback in 1995 was Jeff Blake. They took a running back No. 1. The No. 3 overall pick that year: Steve McNair.

The difference, obviously, is the Browns could get a QB at No. 4.

But it might not be their favored QB and, having done their diligence, that's a risk they can't afford.

Link

Here's my wish list:

Sign Allen Robinson
Possibly sign Edge Rusher
Draft Rosen/Their top QB
Draft Saquon/Minkah/Chubb
Draft CB (Jaire/Oliver BPA)
Draft WR (Chark/BPA)
Draft RB/FS (depending on #4 pick)
Draft Inside Pass Rusher
Find developmental OL
Possibly draft/sign MLB

What's next?

I'm signing Chase Daniels. We need a #2 after this year when Taylor's Contract Voids and the Rook takes over.

Is Shelton safe? I'm watching this one.

I'd still go after Robinson. Excellent protection if Gordon slips.

Get Breeland in here at CB and go to the draft.

Darnold or Rosen at #1
Minkah-Fitzpatrick at 4
Isaiah Oliver at 33
Keryon Johnson at 35

Get DL depth in FA and Draft
Get LB depth in FA and Draft

Revamped Secondary
QB of the future
STUD WR Core
Solid RB
Solid #2 QB for 3 Years

Taking one of the top QBs and not Barkley would be a huge mistake. A team that has just 1 win in two years needs to win now not later. So the Browns are going to take a QB at 1 and let him sit for a year or two instead of a game breaking RB that can start right away? I don't Like that plan.

I understand. I completely disagree.

I agree with Bud Shaw (maybe the first time ever) to refrain from taking a RB 1st overall. We need a QB. We've needed a QB since Bernie Kosar. Why screw up our first opportunity to take one at #1 now that we have the chance?

Take the QB at #1 overall. Then get Chubb at #4 if at all possible, (the Colts could trade out of #3 to a QB needy team).

Imagine, two impact players from the top of the draft. No getting cute trying to outsmart ourselves.

This is your opinion, and that's fine.

We have a chance at picking our franchise QB and I do not like the idea of letting the #2 and #3 picks dictate who we get at QB. A franchise QB trumps a game breaking RB. Always. a QB impacts the game more, and has a longer shelf life.

We can find good RBs later in the draft. A lot of teams do.

Win NOW is such BS and short sighted.

You take the QB ALL THE TIME when there is a LEGIT one.

And there's TWO.

Tons of rumors out there about Shelton getting dealt. I wouldn't like that, but as I have often said the Browns do stuff all the time I don't like..lol. I've followed this stuff to know that when a new regime comes in they are going to dump a ton of players from the previous regime. It's part of the reason the Browns continue to suck constant turnover instead of building upon what we have.

Coming up on his 5th year option.

Move him if not interested in resigning him.

This is what I talked about. We CAN'T resign all these picks and it's coming SOON.

Starting with Shelton and Duke.

.......and there we go Shelton traded to Pats for conditional pick. This is a dumb move....just stupid. Oh well on to the next one.

I get that, but on a team with a gazillion needs THIS year why create another one if you want to "win now"?? If he isn't in the plans let him walk next year and take a comp pick that is likely the equivalent of what the Pats are giving you.

I wonder if we look at Watkins in FA. He had a good year in 2015 with Taylor at QB. It would give Tyrod Taylor a familiar target.

Maybe, it's entirely possible, but personally I think not. But maybe.

We need a QB. We've needed a QB since Bernie Kosar. Barkley may still be available at 4 if not there is Chubb/Fitzpatrick/James or a trade down, WE NEED A FRANCHISE QB!!!

I like him much better than McCarron. So T Twice will carry us. His numbers are better than I thought.

I agree 100% with bonefish.

Bone I also agree with your post 100%. I doubt we were going to resign DS. We got something for him.

j/c

So we still have all of our first five picks...

No 3rd Rd...

GB's 4th & 5th...

A 6th and a 7th.

Sound right?

Exactly. Danny is a good kid and a mediocre player; on a team that went 0-16 where he didn't fit the D scheme. He can and will be replaced fairly easily.

I find that I usually do too.

One more thing. Can we please give our new and for the 1st time, VERY experienced, FO some time to show what they can do? I personally think that we are now in very good hands since lord knows when. Give them some slack.

Yes, give these guys a chance.

No
As a very esteemed poster,who shall remain nameless,would say
"Don't tell other people how to post"

Ahhhhhhhh , what you said ! lol

I am more excited than I have been in a few years about our squad.

He'll do a lot better with the Pats when they're in their 3-4.

Same here, I'm actually excited about the draft this time around instead of dreading it.

Where are you guys getting this Win NOW stuff from?

Watch what FA brings starting Monday. Yeah I know it's Wednesday for ink to paper.

Even BEFORE we turned Shelton into a 3rd, my thoughts were WATCH for a DT coming. A VET. We are so damn young up front.

Alot of you guys are beaten down and think we gotta win NOW to save the franchise. Save the fan base. That's BS.

2 years of BEAT DOWN LOSING can do that. But see the BIG TIME PICTURE.

We are set up for a HAUL of EPIC proportions. This was the PLAN. Let it play out.

Shelton has never been anything special. Going into his final year of which we would need to pick up his 5th year option.

We're NOT picking up that Option. We're NOT interested in long term. SELL him NOW was the prudent move.

We got a 3. Apparently some wanted a #1. Lmao.

Overvaluing players on YOUR team is a National Epidemic.

We did GOOD. More to come.

Watch Nassib too. He may be next. It's ALL about UPGRADING.

Lewis, Higgins, Treggs, Coates, Taylor, McCourty, Campbell, Kindred. GONE within 2 years.

A couple on your list were already released last season. Taylor could easily be next.