DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft The case for Saquon Barkley part 2

It's $15 million across three years. That's $5 mil a year. We have 75+ million in cap space. Barkley would get roughly $5 million a year as well, and we'd still have enough to sign 14 more guys for similar deals.

I honestly don't think we'll go for Barkley, but we'll probably pick one up in the second round.

It hasn't changed that much. You think running backs are obsolete? Tell that to the Rams, Jags and Cowboys. In his rookie season Zeke DRAGGED the Boys to the playoffs. You think they even sniff the playoffs without Zeke? You think the Rams do anything at ALL last year without Gurley? He was in contention for MVP! Teams have gone to the nickel and dime D's as their base D because of all the pass-happy offenses. That means teams can run the ball again.

How did Seattle win the Super Bowl and become a great team for a while? They played great D and they had BEAST MODE! How have they faired since he left? Not very well.

Running the ball is as important now as it ever was. I would trade 50 meatheads for one Emmitt Smith type runner.

I absolutely think we will pick one up in the second round and he pans out we will cut hyde next year.

My point is, your not going to pay three RB 5 million a year each if not more (depending on what they reneg. duke too). Its just not gonna happen, nor would it be wise. Why would you spend 5 million on a guy that's only going to touch the ball 5 times a game if that?

Figure Barkely would get 15-20 touches, duke would get 10 touches (rec incl). that's 30 touches right there. In a passing league, a CAP league (no matter how high or below we are), that's just insane.

Fun fact: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Ben Roethlisberger have been the starting quarterbacks for the AFC team in 14 of the last 15 Super Bowls. Now name all of those teams' running backs.

I get what you're saying with the three teams you mentioned... kind of. Two of those teams also got new head coaches and upgrades at QB. Kind of complicates things, doesn't it? We'll see what those teams build and whether they can maintain that success.

It's not that RB isn't important. It's that: they're not as important as QB (no position is, not even close), they don't last as long, they're more prone to get injured, and there are so many talented ones out there that they can be found later in the draft (or free agency/trades.)

Example, PFF's #3 graded running back was Kareem Hunt, a rookie 3rd round pick. (Todd Gurley was #1 fwiw.)

Who was responsible for drafting Kareem Hunt? John Dorsey. https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/9/21/16344020/andy-reid-gives-john-dorsey-credit-for-kareem-hunt

Trust that Dorsey and the coaching staff will put the QBs through the paces. This means private workouts, interviews, medical reports, watching tape, talking to former teammates/coaches, etc. The idea that even two QBs will grade out the same is already kind of dubious; 3 or more is just not going to happen. This is THE chance to get a franchise QB. We have the #1 overall pick and have the choice to take whoever we want. The idea that we're going to pass up that opportunity to draft a RB, and then take whichever QB is left is just kind of nuts.

Duke might be next to go and we take Barkley.

As long as they get a REAL stud RB I really don't care what round he is drafted in. IF one of these guys IS a REAL franchise QB then, of course, you TAKE him. I've said that all along. In that case, I am for moving up to #2 because in my admittedly ill-informed opinion Barkley is the best running back in this draft by quite a lot. I believe he may be one of those really special backs. I HAVE been wrong before.

You brought up tiny ben. He had the Bus his first few seasons and a couple other really solid backs. He HAD a running game to help him out as a young QB. Back then Stealers meant D and a run game.

Seattle won a Super Bowl quite recently and would not have done so wit;0 hout Beast Mode. A championship can still be won playing great D and running the ball. Of course with solid QB play as well. I agree that QB is the most important position. I just think RB isn't as obsolete as some people think it is in the "modern" NFL. Especially the first couple years of a franchise QB's development. Keeps them from getting their asses handed to them.

What should happen and what will happen is seldom the thing that happens with the Browns. When the Browns signed a HB of the low caliber that is Hyde I already knew they gave up on having anything resembling a real run game. Discussion is over on Saquan at this point. Any talks of us having a running game this year are over too IMHO.

This entire FA was all about getting to mediocrity. There is a lot of activity but other than Landry who is a high paid #3 WR we didn't sign anyone all that special.

We are passing on a generational talent and BPA for need pick. That is always a recipe for a miserable draft result.

Well said Spirit!

These team with great defense don't do well unless you also have a great running game to eat up the clock and keep your defense rested.


If you had a team who built an offensive line specialized in Run Blocking and gave them someone like Saquan and a Short yardage FB you would destroy most defenses in today's NFL because they have all drafted to stop the pass and are not that great at stopping the run.

You pair that run game with a very fast throwing and and quick decision maker like Rosen and I don't even think you could stop it because there are too few teams who have a defense that can stop it.

If you have WRs like Gordon, TP, and Landry who will lay a BD out with a run block down field and a guy like Saquan would eat them up all day long.

I makes me so sad to never have a GM capable of drafting the great players that are available to us and are always doing cutesy things to try and prove how smart they are and then wonder why it never works.

Has Dorsey drafted in Cleveland and I missed it?!

I'd be making peace about Barkley NOT being here. It'd be a nice pickup but IMO for a team this starved of talent it's kind of a luxury pick that high. At least I see it that way...

The funny thing was I was in the middle of posting that Gurley, Elliott, and Fournette will be the rebuttle. And here it is. Between the 3 of them they've only won 2 playoff games and none of those games were won because of the running back.

You could make the same claim about quarterback. None of those teams make the playoffs without a quarterback, either.

No one is discrediting a good running game. And I think it's funny the thinking by some is we aren't looking to have a good running because we may not be taking Barkley #1. And your Lynch example pretty much debunks your "theory" as he wasn't even drafted by Seattle.

I would also contend that to have a good running game you also need good blockers, so that is as equally important as the position itself.

And the REAL stud thing doesn't seem that necessary as the running backs in the most recent super bowl were James White and Ajayi. I think maybe even Dion Lewis was listed as the starting running back instead of White.

This is really simple, people.

Barkley IS NOT the ONLY RB in this draft that will produce a solid Running Game.

PERIOD

j/c

Some posters keep talking about the possibility of not taking Barkley as if he is the ONLY RB in this draft who could possibly improve the Browns running game. I get it, he's the best RB in this draft, and there is a possibility he has a transcendent talent, but that is not assured. This is a deep class at RB. If we pass on SB in the first, there are still some very good RB options in the 2nd and later rounds. Dorsey has a history of finding good RB after the first. Just last year he drafted Kareem Hunt in the 3rd round, and Hunt was the 3rd best RB in the NFL in 2017. KC's running game was very effective, with a 3rd round pick.

Not drafting Barkley is not the end of the world, and it doesn't guarantee the the Browns will be unable to move the ball on the ground. If Dorsey thinks he can improve the team more by drafting someone else at the top of the 1st and still improve the running game with a later pick, I think his record shows he can.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of Barkley as a Brown. And if that's what they do, I am on board. I think there will be a run on QB at the top of the draft, and if there is, he will be there at #4. But even if he is, if Chubb is too, they may go with the DE. Personally, I would prefer Barkley to Chubb.

But I don't buy this argument that the choice is Barkley or a terrible running game.

FWIW

https://twitter.com/nflnetwork/status/974297279229132800

Here's a video of Ian Rappaport believing that the Browns won't take a QB at 1. So there's hope Barkley fans!

EDIT: He is a reporter, so who knows, maybe he has inside info. He thinks Barkley 1, left over QB at 4. Seems crazy to me, but he says "he senses the Browns aren't in love with any of the QBs"



I'm still not buying it, and I think it's the wrong move

Brown sbeing browns and not learning anything...

You cannot pass on franchise players like Zeke, Bosa, DW, Clay Mathews, Ngata, Julio Jones etc etc

We cannot pass on this type of players, period...

Saquan is at the same level, if not higher, than Miles was last year, so I don't even know what's this discussion about honestly.

He's, hands down, the best player in the draft, there should not be any questions or regrets...

So on a talent starved team they should avoid taking the most talented player in the draft. Gotcha. That just makes perfect sense.

OR just maybe since the Running game is at least a third of the entire offense you could draft the best player in the draft who happens to also fill the biggest need of the Browns.

Of course Since we have the big steaming pile Hyde it's pretty obvious we won't be doing anything meaningful to improve our running game in this draft. The rest of the HBs in this draft are not really any better than Hyde anyways. I mean there is Saquan and then there is just bleh at HB in this draft.

at #4 we are either trading back and then taking a CB(Joshua Jackson) or WR(Courtland Sutton) or staying at 4 and drafting chubbs at DE or Denzel Ward at CB.

What a tragedy it would be if we took a RB #1 overall.

It'll be interesting to see where he stands in RB stats come January of 2019.

Read me off the list of no talents on this team, please!

And then identify for me the most talent starved position on the Browns since their rebirth. Hyper boil much?

Maybe not to some on this forum but certainly to me the running game in the AFC North is VERY important especially when the weather gets cold and the winds are fierce. SB would pay off huge towards making our offense deadly and at the end of the day the team who scores the most points wins. Saquan will definitely score points.

Chubb is a good player but he isn't Myles Garrett. I really like him though =)

Fitz won't be drafted by us because we just signed a guy who will now be our starting FS. Sorry Fitz fans but he won't be a Brown on his first contract.

It's quite possible we draft a CB at four.

I can't say I know what the weakest link is but if our running game isn't then it's pretty darn close.

I think Hyde might be Duke's replacement though and it's still possible we take Saquan at 1 or 4.

Benjamin Allbright Verified account
@AllbrightNFL
As I talked about with @NathanZegura earlier this week...if you're the mock drafting type, you should probably start considering Denzel Ward at #4 overall.

Twitter

I look for us to add a running back later in the draft. With Hyde signed I would expect either Chubb or Fitzpatrict at 4. If they trade down, maybe Ward or Davenport. Pretty sure it will be a QB at 1.

Agreed. As very tempting as Barkley is, I would pass on him, take the QB at #1, trade down from #4 a few spots and pick Ward, CB...

If Saquon is there at #4 and we do not take him, consider me first in the line to get Dorsey fired.

Barkley is by far, BY FAR, the best player in this draft. We should take him at #1 or #2 (via trade).

QB QB QB QB how many years are we going to pass on our franchise QB!!!!

Not this year. This year we get our franchise QB

Think your right !... Also think a bunch of Dawgs are going to Scream and shout cause it wasn't their Man ..lol You know the I'm never going post again and I'm through being a fan .. Stomp their feet and pout ..lol

Yeah, I'm trying to chill out and make sure I don't do that. Pretty much preparing myself for Josh Allen..............

Define franchise QB. Who is a franchise QB? Then show how any one of flawed set of College QBs available match up. Rosen - concussions .. Darnold - Crazy windup ... Allen - Accuracy .. Mayfield - height/maturity

There is no QB in this group that matches a true draftable franchise QB. There is no Peyton Manning, no RG III, no Andrew Luck, no John Elway. There is not even a Bernie Kosar or Michael Vick in this group. There is no surefire, Royal Flush, hands down Franchise QB in the in this draft. There are some decent starters, with experience, but everyone QB in the listing has flaws, which is why there is no sure favorite.

We traded for a decent, young, competent NFL starting QB. Let's roll with it and see what he can do.

I am pretty confident Mason will end up as a true franchise QB and Rosen too if he can avoid concussions in the NFL.

Rosen does look like the most ready QB coming out but his concussion problems have me concerned. If he got them in college he stands a good chance of getting them in the pros where the players are bigger, faster and stronger. I myself prefer San Darnold but will respect whomever our FO chooses to draft.

In this QB class there is someone for everyone. I honestly think they want to trade out of the Number 1 spot and pick up a ransom of picks.

Every prospect has flaws as a QB. No Andrew Luck? Someone want to tell me how Andrew Luck's career has turned out?

Take the QB you prefer at 1



And for God's sake, this is a historic running back draft where you could easily get a starter in the 5th round.

Barkley is not as special as some make him out to be. He lacks the patience to allow lanes to open. His power comes and goes. Compared to guys like Chubb, Guice, Michel ect...He looks awful ordinary as a running back.

People who believe the Browns running game will die if they pass on Barkley..
Ridiculous.

I'm not saying there are no good draftable QBs in this draft.
What I'm opposed to is the term FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK as though there is someone in this draft that is the can't miss, Holy Grail of Cleveland Browns Football. I do not see anyone in the draft who is the Andrew Luck/Peyton Manning team carrying, can't miss Super Star. I see a bunch of Chad Penningtons. Pennington wasn't bad, but not a HoF, can't miss, #1 All Time Super Star. I just don't see anyone in this draft who is so special that they can not be passed on. I do see some potential NFL starting Quarterbacks, some college Quarterbacks who could become decent NFL starters.

I realize there are only 32 NFL starting Quarterbacks in the world. The Browns have just traded for one them. If we are looking for a possible starting QB, fine .. say so. I guess I object to seeing FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK label put on college kids with the expectation of them being candidates for the Hall of Fame right now.

JMHO

Diam is one of a very few who question Barkley and running between the Tackles. Legit concern. He always seems to bounce it outside, but he's deadly at doing it.

Barkley or bust at #1 is just ignorant.

You DO NOT leave talent the likes of Darnold or Rosen on the board when your Starting QB is the likes of Tyrod Taylor.

QB is going #1 to Cleveland. The pick is NOT FOR SALE.

With the QB secured, we could do ALOT worse than a nucleus of Darnold or Rosen and Barkley. CHUBB will play a role in this.

We could also do ALOT worse than Darnold or Rosen and Guice or Keryon Johnson.

What we CANNOT do is move down so far that we lose out on Barkley, Chubb Or Minkah-Fitzpatrick.

The ONLY way I see us taking Ward is with a trade down. NO WAY we'll take him at 4 over Chubb Or Barkley.