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I can't make up my mind on #4. It's between Chubb and Ward for me.
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I'd go in this order:
Chubb
Barkley
Fitzpatrick
Ward
R. Smith
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Really comes down to O or D.
Hope Haley really puts in his Opinion on this one.
Williams has that ego to give in thinking O needs all the help it can get.
I agree that if we go D it will be Chubb...the thought of moving having Ogbah play DE and then have Chubb come in on passing downs, moving Ogbah inside along with Larry!
This will make all our CBs and Safeties into Superstars!
Also I think if we pick Fitz...we will utilize him as a starting CB not Safety. Possibly in his later years of his career he can move to Safety like some CBs before him.
jmho I could see us drafting Chubb if Saquan is gone. Then trading back up to grab a CB later on maybe.
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I'd go in this order:
Chubb
Barkley
Fitzpatrick
Ward
R. Smith
At pick #4 and if we draft a QB at 1 Barkley Chubb Ward or trade it. I would rather draft one of those three instead of trading though.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I'm guessing all those guys will be there at 4.
I'm taking Chubb or trading with Denver.
If we end up with Allen and Barkley I'm going to seriously start to wonder if we have the right man in charge of turning this franchise around.
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Dont forget our Ammo at 33 and 35.
I've been hearing good things about Isiah Oliver...and possibly others.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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My Son has been talking up Oliver quiet a bit lately . I guess there are several Mocks with us taking him .
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I think Garrett is more than just an edge rusher in any passing down defense. He's really a wild card who can attack from anywhere on the d-line, allowing Chubb and Ogbah to come from the edges, and giving us a pass rush like we've never seen here before - even without blitzing. That kind of pressure on 2nd & long, or 3rd & 4 or more would make even an average secondary look great, IMO.
Last edited by Dave; 03/20/18 11:15 AM. Reason: spelling
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Eliot Wolf and Highsmith were involved in drafting Randall.
They went after him hard and fast. It was made clear their plan was him at FS.
Certainly a corner could be in play.
But most GM's when given the choice go BPA. As much as I want Barkley; I just don't believe it is Dorsey's MO. In the past he has looked to later rounds to find backs and has a mentality of run by committee. So with adding Hyde and trying to extend Duke it smells like runner in the second.
You can never have enough good pass rushers. Garrett has had trouble staying on the field. Ogbah is coming off injury.
It just makes sense taking Chubb. First off he is really good. Second he plays a premium position.
In the end you would have to be a real dullard to blow pick One and Four.
Dorsey is not that kind of guy.
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Eliot Wolf and Highsmith were involved in drafting Randall.
They went after him hard and fast. It was made clear their plan was him at FS.
Certainly a corner could be in play.
But most GM's when given the choice go BPA. As much as I want Barkley; I just don't believe it is Dorsey's MO. In the past he has looked to later rounds to find backs and has a mentality of run by committee. So with adding Hyde and trying to extend Duke it smells like runner in the second.
You can never have enough good pass rushers. Garrett has had trouble staying on the field. Ogbah is coming off injury.
It just makes sense taking Chubb. First off he is really good. Second he plays a premium position.
In the end you would have to be a real dullard to blow pick One and Four.
Dorsey is not that kind of guy.
Bone, I highly agree with your post. I mean look at the super bowl teams (Blount, Clement, Dion Lewis) Jay was a 5th round pick, Burkhead went in the 6th round...Shows you don't need to spend a top 5 pick on a RB to get to a superbowl...Heck Bears nabbed Jordan Howard in the 5th round, he went to the pro bowl as a rookie along with top 5 pick Zeke... Garrett and Ogbah like you said have been dinged up....Chubb waving in with both and moving and flexing around should make that front very dangerous...And the world changes once you can apply pressure with relative ease.
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I respect the opinions of guys like you and bonefish. You are two of the best posters on this board. No doubt. So, I there is no disrespect intended here, but I disagree w/both of you about Chubb. I would not draft him if I were the Browns at 4.
That doesn't mean I am correct. It's just my opinion and I hope I didn't offend either of you.
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I respect the opinions of guys like you and bonefish. You are two of the best posters on this board. No doubt. So, I there is no disrespect intended here, but I disagree w/both of you about Chubb. I would not draft him if I were the Browns at 4.
That doesn't mean I am correct. It's just my opinion and I hope I didn't offend either of you. What WOULD YOU DO at 4 when you've just secured your QB of the Future at #1 and your #1, #2 Best Players in the Entire Draft are BOTH sitting there at 4 in Barkley and Chubb? IF you say Barkley, you're shying away from the thought of Building from the Inside-Out. Which is fine. IF you say FITZ, you're shying away from your BPA Board as high as the 4th pick in this draft. Which is NOT fine.
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What WOULD YOU DO at 4 when you've just secured your QB of the Future at #1 and your #1, #2 Best Players in the Entire Draft are BOTH sitting there at 4 in Barkley and Chubb?
IF you say Barkley, you're shying away from the thought of Building from the Inside-Out. Which is fine.
IF you say FITZ, you're shying away from your BPA Board as high as the 4th pick in this draft. Which is NOT fine.
Fitz is clearly not the BPA on YOUR board. We don;t actually know who the best players are on the Browns board.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I could give two craps about best available player on my board ... i care about WHOSE GOING TO HELP MY TEAM THE MOST ...
IMO thats Fitz ... i want my QB on D ... i’ve stated my other reasons many times ...
I value FOOTBALL INTELLIGENCE ... i wonder how teams factor that into the equation when evaluating a football player ... never thought of that in the age of measuring everything ... wonder how they measure it and how much weight it has in the equation ...
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What WOULD YOU DO at 4 when you've just secured your QB of the Future at #1 and your #1, #2 Best Players in the Entire Draft are BOTH sitting there at 4 in Barkley and Chubb?
IF you say Barkley, you're shying away from the thought of Building from the Inside-Out. Which is fine.
IF you say FITZ, you're shying away from your BPA Board as high as the 4th pick in this draft. Which is NOT fine.
Fitz is clearly not the BPA on YOUR board. We don;t actually know who the best players are on the Browns board. Exactly.
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I could give two craps about best available player on my board ... i care about WHOSE GOING TO HELP MY TEAM THE MOST ...
IMO thats Fitz ... i want my QB on D ... i’ve stated my other reasons many times ...
I value FOOTBALL INTELLIGENCE ... i wonder how teams factor that into the equation when evaluating a football player ... never thought of that in the age of measuring everything ... wonder how they measure it and how much weight it has in the equation ...
One of the smartest things Mike Pettine did as HC was bring in Jim Leonhard. He was at the end of his career, probably the slowest guy on the defense, but his football intelligence improved the defense. His last year in football was with the Browns in 2014. He joined the Wisconsin coaching staff and was named defensive coordinator in 2017. It took him just 2 years. I predict he will either become a college HC within 5 years, or transition to the NFL and become a HC within 10. My point is, football intelligence is a powerful thing.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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I'm sure you have said it but - How does Fitzgerald in your eyes help our team the most.
Btw what I was looking for in my thread.
But this is sincere in me asking. I'm curious as to how you lay this out.
Also do you think he will be our FS or our starting CB.
I know he is Super Football Intelligent which is his special gift. He can still make the calls from CB as well as FS.
I see him as a better asset starting out at CB. Maybe later in his career when he loses a step I can see him being a Pro Bowler in those years at FS. Just thinking out loud!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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The other two realistic picks are Chubb and Barkley ... some say Ward so lets throw him in their also ... Chubb - we all ready have Ogbah and MG ... u can always use GREAT EDGE RUSHERS ... but if he comes here ... what are we going to do on 1st and 2nd downs? ... hes a GREAT PLAYER but here ... he’d be rotational on 1st and 2nd downs ... one of those guys is coming off the field .. If we had a weakness inside .. it’d be more feasible to me .. but we don’t .. why would we want to move one of those guys inside on 1st and 2nd downs when we have some good guys for that slot all ready ... Barkley - we have Hyde and Duke and this draft class is LOADED at RB ... Even after what we’ve done in FA we still have MASSIVE HOLES in our secondary ... right now we need two starting caliber cb’s and our FS hasn’t played the position in 3 or 4 years and we have NO CLUE how good he’s going to be ... crap ... Fitz has as much time as an NFL FS as dude we got from GB does ... We have Hyde and Duke all ready ... and we can get one a lot closer to Barkley in rnd 2 than we can Fitz in rnd 2 ..... Ward - he doesn’t have Fitz’s brains or versatility ... I would play Fitz at FS to start with the goal of hopefully having him be our version of what Troy was for the Stilers for far to long .... If we need to start him at CB this year .... then so be it ... OUR SECONDARY IS BY FAR OUR BIGGEST NEED as of right now .... and we could get BOTH OUR QB’S for the next 10 - 15 years HOPEFULLY in the first 4 picks this year ... I actually see no shot of us drafting Fitz at this point ... its OK ... i’m Used to being dissapointed ...  ...
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It is all about good football talk.
I only get frustrated when it is obvious that people don't do the research and spout nonsense.
I expect different points of view and welcome it.
Honestly Vers. I am surprised more people aren't all over Rosen. I love the guy. I just like Darnold a hair more.
As far as Chubb. I think there is a strong argument for 3 or 4 guys.
My guess though is Dorsey would take Chubb.
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Chubb - we all ready have Ogbah and MG ... u can always use GREAT EDGE RUSHERS ... but if he comes here ... what are we going to do on 1st and 2nd downs? ... hes a GREAT PLAYER but here ... he’d be rotational on 1st and 2nd downs ... one of those guys is coming off the field ..
If we had a weakness inside .. it’d be more feasible to me .. but we don’t .. why would we want to move one of those guys inside on 1st and 2nd downs when we have some good guys for that slot all ready ...
I would like to refute this thought that having 3 "starting caliber DE/edge rushers" is not that feasible. Even though we have never really had this luxury, when I think of 3 or 4 of the best rushing teams in the last few years, they are PERFECT examples of why having 3 stud DEs is key: Kansas City: Had Tamba Hali and Justin Houston... even with this combo, drafted Dee Ford in the first round. Denver: Had Vonn Miller and Demarcus Ware as starters... drafted Shane Rey in the first round. Philadelphia: Had Brandon Graham and Vinny Curry... drafted Derek Barnett in the first round. Defensive ends are generally bigger guys (250-290 lbs) whose primary job is to sprint as fast as they can play after play after play. For these giant men, this is taxing, and often, even though they are well conditioned, they can only go a few plays at a time before needing to come out for a play or two. The best combos of edge rushers always have 3 guys who are rotating to keep fresh and provide constant pressure. As has been stated, we have 2. Now it is time to bring in #3. I am a fan of Chubb and would love to have him at 4, but even if we don't get him, there are quite a few more edge rushers that can be had later in the first (a trade up from 2nd round or trade down from pick 4) or even possibly in the top of the second round. Personally for me, Harold Landry to me, looks like he could be a homewrecker!!! He had an amazing 2016 season, but was hampered with injuries in the 2017 year. I think he could be had in the 15-20 range.
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The other two realistic picks are Chubb and Barkley ... some say Ward so lets throw him in their also ... Chubb - we all ready have Ogbah and MG ... u can always use GREAT EDGE RUSHERS ... but if he comes here ... what are we going to do on 1st and 2nd downs? ... hes a GREAT PLAYER but here ... he’d be rotational on 1st and 2nd downs ... one of those guys is coming off the field .. If we had a weakness inside .. it’d be more feasible to me .. but we don’t .. why would we want to move one of those guys inside on 1st and 2nd downs when we have some good guys for that slot all ready ... Barkley - we have Hyde and Duke and this draft class is LOADED at RB ... Even after what we’ve done in FA we still have MASSIVE HOLES in our secondary ... right now we need two starting caliber cb’s and our FS hasn’t played the position in 3 or 4 years and we have NO CLUE how good he’s going to be ... crap ... Fitz has as much time as an NFL FS as dude we got from GB does ... We have Hyde and Duke all ready ... and we can get one a lot closer to Barkley in rnd 2 than we can Fitz in rnd 2 ..... Ward - he doesn’t have Fitz’s brains or versatility ... I would play Fitz at FS to start with the goal of hopefully having him be our version of what Troy was for the Stilers for far to long .... If we need to start him at CB this year .... then so be it ... OUR SECONDARY IS BY FAR OUR BIGGEST NEED as of right now .... and we could get BOTH OUR QB’S for the next 10 - 15 years HOPEFULLY in the first 4 picks this year ... I actually see no shot of us drafting Fitz at this point ... its OK ... i’m Used to being dissapointed ... ... I do agree with Chubb. As much as we all say, you can't have enough rushers - but we're pretty set there with Ogbah (who is very underrated and not talked about that much) and Garrett. If you're not a fan of Randall at FS, then I still think Minkah is your best bet. I'm warming up though to trading down from 4 and looking at Ward. With the extra ammo, we could easily get BACK into the first round and look at Dj Moore or even Ridley. Moore/Ridley, Gordon (with both fingers crossed he has knocked off the rust, is in better shape and for the love of everything - hasn't screwed up AGAIN) and Landry would sure look nice in a group that also in the talks of being the weakest link.
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It didn’t work out well for KC ... they haven’t been able to stop the pass in for ever .... NOW .... Who did Denver and Phili have in their secondaries compared to KC or MORE IMPORTANTLY us today ....  Each situation is different ... We have MASSIVE HOLES in our secondary ... Denver and Phili DIDN’T ...
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It is all about good football talk.
I only get frustrated when it is obvious that people don't do the research and spout nonsense.
I expect different points of view and welcome it.
Honestly Vers. I am surprised more people aren't all over Rosen. I love the guy. I just like Darnold a hair more.
As far as Chubb. I think there is a strong argument for 3 or 4 guys.
My guess though is Dorsey would take Chubb. I have no problem w/you liking Darnold more. I think we probably just have a different value system on quarterbacks. I value accuracy, pre-snap reads, reading coverages, and mechanics very high. If I had to guess, you probably have athleticism, making plays outside of the pocket, toughness, and a gunslinger mentality more than the traits I listed. It's all good. It's friendly debate. Edit: I really have no idea what Dorsey and Hue will do in the draft. And I really don't know enough about Chubb to make an intelligent comment. I've been focusing on the QBs, RB,s and DBs.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 03/21/18 06:44 PM.
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Like I said I totally get liking Rosen.
Not an easy selection.
I just like Darnold and for many reasons.
The big one for me is accuracy on the move and under pressure.
Both are accurate. Rosen is a pleasure to watch throw the ball. However, I don't rate one more accurate.
Rosen also is no statue. He can move in the pocket.
But to my eyes he does not have the escape-ability in the pocket that Darnold has. And I don't think he is as accurate when things break down.
In the end I would be thrilled to land either guy.
Not so happy if they take Mayfield or Allen.
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Like I said I totally get liking Rosen.
Not an easy selection.
I just like Darnold and for many reasons.
The big one for me is accuracy on the move and under pressure.
Both are accurate. Rosen is a pleasure to watch throw the ball. However, I don't rate one more accurate.
Rosen also is no statue. He can move in the pocket.
But to my eyes he does not have the escape-ability in the pocket that Darnold has. And I don't think he is as accurate when things break down.
In the end I would be thrilled to land either guy.
Not so happy if they take Mayfield or Allen. If Rosen is flushed, he's screwed. He's fine manuevering the pocket. Once outside it not so good. I understand the He's NFL READY stuff. I FIRMLY believe that 2 years from now Darnold will be a STUd and Rosen will be an above average QB in NY.
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If Rosen is flushed, he's screwed.
He's fine manuevering the pocket. Once outside it not so good.
How did Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do outside the pocket?
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If Rosen is flushed, he's screwed.
He's fine manuevering the pocket. Once outside it not so good.
How did Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do outside the pocket? Yeah, or Matt Ryan? Drew Brees is nothing special outside the pocket too. Most important attribute for NFL QBs IMO is accuracy, throwing with anticipation, and ability to make reads and quickly deliver. It's why these older NFL QBs are so good. I remember Tom Brady saying something like, why would he retire. He knows all the answers. Those are the traits that matter the most.
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If Rosen is flushed, he's screwed.
He's fine manuevering the pocket. Once outside it not so good.
RE:Rosen outside the pocket How did Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do outside the pocket? If Rosen is going to be as good Peyton and Brady sign me up. For me, i would have liked to see much higher production and efficiency if a QB is limited in their ability to make outside the pocket/"2nd reaction" plays. The delta between Rosen and the other prospects in their ability to avoid free rushers and make plays outside the pocket is wide. These days every post seems to need a caveat. So, commenting on this imho defecient aspect of his game doesn't mean that i think he will fail. On the contrary i think Rosen along with the other top 3 will be successful.
Last edited by edromeo; 03/22/18 07:00 AM.
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If we are going to compare Rosen to Brady and Peyton, couldn't we also compare Darnold to Favre?
I'm not saying either will achieve such lofty heights, but the similarities are there.
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I like the Darnold to Romo comp. Baker is more Favre.
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If we are going to compare Rosen to Brady and Peyton, couldn't we also compare Darnold to Favre?
I'm not saying either will achieve such lofty heights, but the similarities are there. I don't like all of these comparisons, but I would much rather have Brady and Manning than I would Favre.
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j/c...I thought this was a Chubb thread...oh wait it is.
There are plenty of QB threads out there...lol 
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Go Browns!
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j/c...I thought this was a Chubb thread...oh wait it is.
There are plenty of QB threads out there...lol Yeah, wonder if the plans on Bradley Chubb are gone now that the Giants just traded away JPP. Seems crazy to me that they did that. Maybe the rebuild is beginning though and they go QB. EDIT: Oh well, if the Giants go Bradley Chubb. It'll be Barkley or Fitzpatrick. And i'm all in on Barkley baby. I'm not a Ohio State Fan, so there's no nostalgia toward Carlos Hyde. And Denzel Ward seems to be a player from the next tier (although a good one). Fitzpatrick seems like a FS to me. Depends on how much we like this new guy I guess. Fitzpatrick would be a good one too. But I'd rather go Saquon Yeah, give me Barkley, and let's get this offense rolling!
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 03/22/18 10:33 AM.
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Factoring JPP gone now in NY, Chubb going there is a very legit possibility.
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Yep, Chubb might be off the board for us
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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@AdamSchefter
Both @LRiddickESPN and @Realrclark25 said on SportsCenter that Bradley Chubb is a better football player than last year's No. 1 pick, Myles Garrett
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@AdamSchefter
Both @LRiddickESPN and @Realrclark25 said on SportsCenter that Bradley Chubb is a better football player than last year's No. 1 pick, Myles Garrett  I like Bradley Chubb. But he's no Myles Garrett. Myles Garrett is a better athlete, and has the football skills to match. Chubb might have a better motor I guess. But I still say our guy, Myles Garrett is the better pick
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 03/22/18 12:26 PM.
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One things for sure .. Chubb is NO WHERES NEAR AS FLEXIBLE AS MG ... I’ve never seen anyone bend/contort their body the way he does when going around the “corner” on a tackle .... Its incredible what he does .. reminds me of Gumby ... I got it though .... if we take Chubb ... we can then trade Ogbah to whoever takes Fitz ... PROBLME SOLVED ...
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Maybe I am dead wrong but I don't see Chubb in a three four defense which is what the Giants are going to put in.
If the Giants were not in the hunt for a QB they sure had a bunch of guys at Darnold's pro day. Maybe just due diligence.
If they don't draft a QB now with the second pick while they have the chance. They could be looking for a QB for years to
come.
The second pick is kind of a today or tomorrow pick for the Giants.
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I got it though .... if we take Chubb ... we can then trade Ogbah to whoever takes Fitz ... PROBLME SOLVED ... lol. See, I see it easier to have three DE's than two FS's. I don't really see Minkah being worth it at 4 as a CB. Def FS though. He'll be a very good FS. Not the prospect that Jamal Adams was last year, but one step below So if we pick up Minkah, obviously we didn't think THAT much of Demarius Randall (or Deshone Kizer).
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