DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Allen

j/c:


https://twitter.com/Andy_Benoit/status/977215361757007872

That's fine. No player has it down. But there are things you can improve, and things you can't. Generally guys who are innaccurate in college, don't become that much more accurate in the NFL.

Generally guys with a below 60% completition percentage in college, don't increase that percentage in the NFL.


Obviously no one knows what Allen will become as he progresses, but we can take guesses. My guess is that Allen, who doesn't show the traits that I find most important for a QB, won't improve upon those enough to be a very successful NFL QB.

You can improve upon things, but in general, you are what you are. Allen is a mega armed QB, who is inconsistent, not very accurate, and doesn't seem to find the open guy and deliver

Favre completed 52% in college and 62% in the NFL so no one can be sure how a player will continue to develop. A lot of fans have made statements on what can be fixed and what can't. It's amazing how many QB experts we have on this board. I just hope Dorsey and company make the right decision.

Sure, but watching Josh Allen. He's shown to be inconsistent (and his decision making has shown to be questionable, which I think I mentioned earlier about accurately delivering the ball to the correct player)

How does it make sense to select a guy who has shown these things, based off the fact that he's A) Tall B) Has a very strong arm and C) Seems to be athletic/fast


I guess it's why I don't care for Pro-Days or any of that. I watch the games and decide there.

Folks keep comparing him to this guy and that guy. I see the Big Ben references. I saw Big Ben in College. He was the best player in the MAC (over Josh Harris of Bowling Green). He clearly was a really good player. I don't see anything like that in Josh Allen. I just see a tall guy, who is athletic, with a rocket arm.

Like a poor man's Jake Locker

I actually have the opinion that a QB can have TOO strong an arm. It causes more problems than it's worth. They throw so hard no one can catch it or balls bounce off the WRs' hands. They turn short easy passes into extremely hard balls to catch. In some cases like Farve they break their WRs fingers.

Allen lacks accuracy, ball placement, and touch on his passes. Your just not going to fix all that. He will continue to be mentally lazy and just try to throw it into places he shouldn't and rely on his arm to muscle the ball into dangerous places and trust the CBs have too hard a time catching it to intercept it.

There is no way this guy belongs in the first round.

Darnold at 1, Allen at 4. Book it.

I don't think he is in play, but if we pick Josh Allen we are hopeless.

With that said, it is crazy how strong this dude's arm is.

Jemarcus Allen sure can throw it hard and far.

Great game of catch we're watching.

Give me Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold instead

i agree

lol.

I'm listening to Ryan Clark on ESPN talk about how he had him the furthest down on his list and now he's the highest on his list (after a pro-day).

Christ........... These people are nuts. Have they seen the guy actually play real football?

That's going to be a crowded backfield!

He can throw it 75 yards!

I really , really really want to respond to what is being posted here as absolutes about this kid , or any other of the FINE prospects coming out this year . I just hope these remarks are archived ..

I could see Denver moving up to Two if we pass on him .. Sometimes I just can't take anymore , My fingers get the best of me ..lol

If that is the case, who do you expect us to pick at 12 and 22?

Me too because I think the kid is going to be way better than a lot of posters are saying.

I need to see him on the white board, though.

Allen needs a lot of coddling, he needs a system that caters to his skills. He is huge, he is athletic…look at how he stacks up to Cam Newton. I think that if he gets a system around him where he can use his athleticism, maybe not to the extent that Cam did, but maybe????

He needs a Franchise to sell out and use his skills, if they want him to be a drop back passer, they are going to be very disappointed.


Cam:
40 – 4.59
Vert- 35
Broad – 126
3 Cone – 6.92
20 shuttle – 4.18


Allen:
40 – 4.75
Vert- 33.5
Broad – 119
3 Cone – 6.90
20 shuttle – 4.40

Allen can throw it a mile, but a couple of his deep throws today would have been either incomplete or intercepted. I am not sold on his accuracy, and that is vital in today's NFL. I think that he is going to have to be "built", more than any of the other top 5. (which is weird, considering his experience under Center, and with calling audibles and protections)

Once and if he learns to throw with anticipation, Allen will be fine, his accuracy will improve as his footwork improves. You watch the tape you can see the disconnect between his feet on his bad throws. It took Elway forever to learn to throw with anticipation. Favre took awhile too, both were QBs who needed to see it open before throwing it, just as Allen is. His decision making should improve through time, he sounds like a dedicated hard worker. Even Marino struggled with throwing with anticipation in college, by the way he was another QB who never threw for over 60% in college.

Archive them. And THIS.

I can't stand the SIGHT of Mayfield.

Allen has NO CLUE how to throw with Anticipation.

Great arm. Superb kid.

And Archive THIS also.

Allen goes to the Denver Donkey and rekindles the Kosar vs Elway rivalry.

Darnold vs Allen. Hmmmmm.

It'll be interesting. But I really don't think Allen is the right QB to go number 1. He's not who I want, that's for sure. I think he'll take a lot of work before he's a good NFL QB.

But a lot of these guys could be good. The ones I feel best about, I've made clear though. Very clear. Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold. One of those I want at number 1, and Rosen is the one I want the most

It is nice to see no one is falling for the hype after today. Refreshing.

This is a good response to a bad joke.

One thing Allen does do well, imo just as good as anyone who’s ever played, is throw on the run. It’s evertless and accurate when he throws on the run, scrambling in either direction.

Nothing Allen does should be considered accurate. I've never seen a highly touted QB miss as many throws as him (and he misses some by a mile).

See, he can make some really difficult throws on the run. But his consistency when making throws on the run doesn't impress me. Does this make sense?

And that's why i'm gonna disagree. Because I don't think he's as good as anyone who's ever played at throwing on the run. In fact, I don't think he's the most accurate thrower on the run in this draft

He is a project QB that will need to sit and learn for years. That by definition is a 3rd round grade or worse. This idea that you jump a QB up a few rounds just because he can throw hard is stupid.

But he's 6'5, 240 Pounds, with huge hands too............

That's nice and all but doesn't really matter that much. ANY QB who can throw the football 52mph has plenty of ball velocity. Any QB who can throw it 50 vertical yards can throw it long enough. Almost all QBs who play in college can do those basic things. Physically nothing else is really required.

The most important thing is that they have the Brains to read defenses Pre and Post Snap, Field Vision, Reaction Time, and Ball Placement skills while meeting those basic physical qualities.

That big arm is quite possibly the LEAST important part in finding a franchise QB.

My original post, was a joke. I've made pretty clear that I have Josh Allen as my 4th QB on the list. He's a project, with questions beyond accuracy.

But, arm strength does mean something. Once you pass the test, you're good to go IMO.

But guys like Kellen Moore and Graham Harrell never stood much of a chance to make it in the NFL because their arm strength wasn't enough. You want a guy with some arm strength because they can deliver the ball faster in those tight windows. Most college QBs don't have the ability to do that IMO.

But, as you said, once it's strong enough, the benefit starts decreasing. It's like a check box. "Strong Enough", check, great. Moving on

Aye man I think we are on the same page on this issue =)

In any case I don't wish ill on the kid. I just don't want us to make a reach when we have high quality choices that are a lot safer.

Is it just me or yesterday when Allen did those few scrambling throws he looked like he was going in slow motion.

Comparing those same type throws from Darnold, Darnold was going ALL OUT like he had 4 guys coming to take his head off.

Arm strength is interesting. It was considered very important for quite awhile. Then, many of us began saying that arm strength is overrated. And it was.

However, I think arm strength is becoming more important than it was several years ago. The players are so much bigger and faster now. DBs and LBs can make up a lot of ground quickly. Training techniques to help develop quick twitch actions is a true science. The windows in the NFL are smaller and they close more quickly than ever before. Thus, I think having a strong arm is more helpful than it was even just several years ago.

Nice take.

One thing I kept hearing Mayock say during the combine while Allen was throwing was that Allen waits to throw too often because he knows he can throw fastballs. The problem I see is if this was his MO in college it’ll get him killed in the pros. Waiting in the pros means taking more hits and more sacks. To add, if he was waiting in college it’s my guess he was processing information slowly. Therefore he was late on throws but could zip it in anyway. If that is the case his processing of info on the pro level isn’t going to speed up without a lot of practice reps.
I like the guy. Just not with the 1st or 4th pick.