DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Who Are Your Top 5 QB's?

How does that sound like he doesn't like Rosen?

Also..........someone mentioned that Parcells was the last guy to aide the qb search. I'm not a huge fan of Parcells, but the last guy I want making the choice is Sashi. Thankfully, we don't have to worry about that anymore.

IIRC, Polian also Gm'd the Buffalo Bills teams that went to 4 straight Super Bowls, nearly winning the 1st vs the Giants.

Back to what I came to respond:

The only thing that matters when selecting a QB from College is what they did on the field in their career,
I don't care about hand size, height, speed, leaping ability, explosivness, abilities to read, think, know, or any of that,

To me, the only thing that matters is what they did when they were playing, because they had the offense, it was their job to "lead the team to first downs which become touchdowns" (which is what I've been consistent in saying is a Qb's job since 2004 or so)

And when you do that you get wins, and it's the coaches job primarily to use his team vs the other to get the win, but Qb's are a large part of that.

And the thinking that only mearuseables matter, (height, speed, arm strength, etc.) only become even something to consider if you determine:
A: that the player can't compete in the NFL because the measurable prevent it altogether. or

B: You have a coaching/development system in place that allows you to develop a player, which when leading an offense in College, was lesser at running the offense (to first downs which become touchdowns)
and your development system is going to produce a better result, because you can somehow make it better that the lesser "results" player is going to be just as good and now you have someone who does Just as well, but you have better measureables, (height adv, speed adv. arm strength advantage. )

But, I think the Browns don't have that development system in place to the extent to make up for Not selecting the College Qb that has shown the best ability to move a team to tremendous success on offense.

That's why I think the Browns should take Mayfield,

he has shown the most success. I haven't read much of anything from folks trying to say someone else has been more successful leading his offense in college to First downs, Touchdowns, and Wins.

If there is, then I'd listen, but the Browns should take the Best player available, and this year, the best quarterback available.

Who are your 2-5 QBs?

How many people posting in this thread actually posted their top 5 lists?

Darnold
Rosen
Mayfield
Allen
White

So - I think I am finally off the fence.

1. Mayfield. Whether it's with the Browns or another team I think Mayfield is going to be a stud in the NFL. His lack of 1" of height is really the only think that is preventing him from being the consensus #1 pick.... if he was 6'3" he'd be talked about as the best QB coming out of college for 20+ years. Not only do I trust my own eyes when I have watched him - I trust PFF even more. This piece really pushed me over the edge and made me stop over thinking it.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/22/baker-mayfield-advance-analytics-nfl-draft-oklahoma-pff

2. Darnold. Intangibles. Whether it's moxy, instinct, anticipation .... I don't know what you want to call it. I think Darnold takes the second spot.

3. Rosen. I am leary of Rosen because of the concussion - but to rank Allen ahead of him seems to be a reach. I can see Rosen possibly having a short career if he takes some hits. He's too smart to risk long term physical and mental health issues for the sake of a game.

4. Allen. Skys the limit. But there is a risk here for whoever takes him. Seems the epitome of boom or bust.

5. Mason. Sorry, I am not a Lamar Jackson fan. Mason looks more likely to succeed in the NFL than Jackson imo.

Whether it's Darnold or Mayfield we take - or someone else - I'll be rooting for them 100%. I think Dorsey is smart enough for me not to second guess his decision even if it ends up being someone I didn't see or didn't want.

If I'm playing a game today:

Rosen
Darnold
Allen
Mayfield
Rudolph

If I'm drafting for the future of my team:

Darnold
Rosen
Allen
Mayfield
Rudolph

Rosen
Darnold
Mayfield
Jackson
Allen

Darnold
Mayfield
Rosen
Allen
Rudolph

Suck 4 Sam actually WORKED. The Jets WISH they were in this position.

#1 Darnold (Far and away the BEST QB in this draft)

Rosen

WAAAAY down the list---Allen

2nd Round MAYFIELD
Rudolph
White
Lauletta

5th Round---WR Lamar Jackson

TT is listed as 6'1 but still your correct. I think Joe was just being nice but already decided his knee wasn't up for protecting a short QB.

I cant seem to find the video I was quoting but this one he talks a little about it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000922130/Joe-Thomas-on-Browns-draft-strategy-I-imagine-they-ll-probably-draft-a-quarterback-in-Round-1&icampaign=%22search-video-joe+thomas%22

I am not listing mine because people are so whacked about "their guy" and aren't even bothering to research.

Whatever....

It's hard to post an absolute top 5 for me because how I view who is the best changes based on what situation I am thinking of. These guys are so good but such different types of QBs. If push came to shove though and we are doing it over all then :

1. Darnold
2. Rosen
3. Mason
4. Mayfield
5. Lamar

I think ALL 5 of these guys will have a great NFL career. ALL OF THEM. I think HOW great will depend on if they are matched up to the right offenses.

The reason I rank Darnold #1 is because I think he can succeed in ANY offense. I think he can succeed with a less than great offensive line. I think he can do OK even with avg receivers.

I love Rosen's intellect and crisp clean technique. He is deadly accurate and the best pocket passer in this draft BAR NONE. The thing is I see a sharp drop in passing quality when he has to scramble compared to Darnold. When I think of how often is a pocket going to be clean and controlled in the NFL I think it hurts Rosen a bit more than Darnold.

Mason is the best deep ball passer in this draft and it's not even close. In a vertical passing game he is the best of this draft. He is extremely good at reading defenses and adjusting pre and post snap. He does it even better than Rosen IMHO. The problem is that because of footwork issues he doesn't have the accuracy that Rosen does in the short to mid field passes and those passes are the majority of the game for most teams. To me his game style is perfect for the Browns.

Mayfield is a very good QB who is deadly accurate under 20 yards and decently accurate past 20 yards. I think he is a charismatic leader on the field who gets his team to play hard. He has issues with his maturity though that is very worrisome and his height is a concern for many. I think he can be successful but I also think he needs the right coach to pair up with to get the most out of him.

Lamar is the best dual threat QB to come out in years. I am not a fan of QB who run the ball a lot though because they tend to get hurt and end up with a much shorter career because of it. I don't think he should be a first year starter. The team that drafts him should take the time to fix his footwork and build up his passing game. I think if they do that he will adjust and become a successful QB and extend his career by years.

If Lamar Jackson is available in the 4th round. I don't care who we draft as our QB, I'd like to take Lamar as a QB as well ALA Redskins with RG3 and Cousins.


5th round (and a WR) is really devaluing the guy IMO

#1a. Josh Rosen. He has to be #1. He has pro typical QB size and arm strength, can make all of the throws. Most pro ready day 1 since he came from a pro style system. Reads defenses and makes throws with anticipation. Reminds me of Eli Manning when he came out of Ole Miss.

#1b. Sam Darnold. Again pro-typical size and arm strength, can make all of the throws. Play maker. Throws well on the run. Good leadership skills. Attacks defenses down the field. Reminds me of a cross between Philip Rivers and Ben Rothlisberger.

#3. Josh Allen. Again pro-typical size and arm strength, can make all of the throws. Actually strongest arm in the draft without question. He is the most boom or bust player in draft. Has looked incredible at combine and pro day. Could easily be best QB taken or biggest bust. Reminds me of Jeff George.

#4. Baker Mayfield. Intangibles are off the charts. Leader on the field with good arm strength. Throws with anticipation. Reminds me of Johnny Manziel.

#5. Mason Rudolph. Another QB from the Oklahoma State spread offense that throws the ball all over the field. Has good arm strength and can make all of the throws. Throws with great touch. Reminds me of Brandon Weeden.

One of these things doesn't belong here.

"Throws with great touch. Reminds me of Brandon Weeden."

LOL

Alright, by now I have a bit of a buzz and I am dropping the guard a bit. I will play...........sort of.

1. Josh Rosen. This will be my only choice. We have the first overall selection and I don't need to think beyond this. Also, I don't want to offend anyone who likes the other qbs. I know that sounds untrue, but I promise.........it's true.

Here is why I like Rosen.

I have a list attributes I like in a professional qb.

1. Accuracy
2. Post snap reads
3. Pre snap reads
4. Anticipation........which can be linked to post snap reads
5. Pocket awareness
5. Leadership/toughness
5. Arm strength
8. Athleticism
8. Mechanics

There are more, but that's it for now. Please not the 3-way tie at 5 and the 2-way tie at 8.

I like Rosen because he is one of the most accurate qbs I have ever seen. I like him because I have seen him go through progressions. I like him because he doesn't need cards and for all 11 to see the play call. He can make the pre-snap reads on his own. I love his pocket presence and how he stands in the face of the rush and delivers the ball on time instead of bailing the pocket like every other qb prospect in this draft does.

I am going to emphasize two points that some might understand.

1. Accuracy: Throwing the ball in a place where the receiver can keep running is so freaking huge and this guy does it as good as anyone. Very similar to Jimmy G and Brady.

2. Pocket presence: This has a few elements. First of all, don't drift unless you have to. Stay in the pocket and then move forward if your tackles do their job and steer the outside rushers deep. Use lateral moves to buy time. Don't leave the pocket too early. Sense pressure. And most of all and this is the one thing no one has given Josh credit for.......is stand in the face of the rush and deliver the ball on target even though you know you are going to get creamed. The rest of the qbs in this draft take off way early. That's cool in college. Not so good in the NFL.

Sorry, ya'll...............I don' think this contest is close.

What of QBs 2-5?

I'm not really sure. Like I said, we have the first overall pick so it doesn't matter all that much.

I like different things of each of those qbs, but I think they are all projects. It's hard for me to rank qbs when I'm not sure if they can make post-snap reads, throw w/anticipation, or even make pre-snap reads. I will never say they can't, it's just that I can't say they can when they haven't been asked to do all of those things.

Purdy good stuff.

We'll do what we did last year with Kizer after we took him.

We'll all talk about the one who's actually on our team.

Hopefully all the testosterone laden egos will settle down then, INCLUDING MINE. Lol.

Exciting times. FINALLY we're going to have a QB worth talking about.

Cough***Sammy***Cough. Hehehe

Darnold
Rosen
Allen
Mayfield
Jackson

Darnold
Rosen
Mason
Allen
Jackson
(no Mayfield, please)

My quick list was
1 DeShaun Watson
2. Baker Mayfield
3. Ryan Tannehill
4. Aaron Rogers
5. Drew Brees
6. Andy Dalton
7. Russell Wilson.
As Qb's I'd like to see added to the Browns today.

I'm a big supporter of the idea of taking Mayfield #1 overall, with this pick, but I don't think you can say he is, (or if at 6'3 would be) the best Qb to come out in the draft in the past 20 years.

The biggest argument for Mayfield is his on field accomplishments, but I find it really hard to put those accomplishments side by side with what DeShaun Watson did in College and say Mayfield has the advantage.

Mayfield should be the pick, I'll admit I think he probably won't be, but he "should" be, because he's the best option, and he's right there in front of you,
Just select him, and move on.

But I still say they should have selected Watson, a year ago and not be this position.

No way is Mayfield the best to come out in 20 years, but it could be close and he could prove all of us wrong.

Mayfield is the guy I'd select with the #1 overall pick, and I think it would put you in a good position competitively.

They should be Jumping at the chance to select this guy, He's worth trading up for, and they don't have to.

Sorry - but only Razor is allowed to call Rudolph by his first name. I think he is related somewhere, somehow.

Who Are Your Top 5 QB's?

Who are your QBs 2-5?

1. Darnold

2. Rosen

3. Mayfield

4. Jackson

5. Allen

You pick Jackson over Allen? Why? The NFL is going away from running QBs. Guys like Cam and Wilson have cut back on running to prolong their careers.

I picked the same 5. I have Jackson over Allen simply because Allen is more of a project in my mind. He has better tools but I think it will take him longer (if at all) to get to where he can be successful.

Does it seem like some people in this thread really seem to have a problem with Lamar Jackson? Or is it just me?

I haven't seen anyone questioned over there list except for Lamar Jackson.

And since when has the NFL been moving away from so called "running" QBs?

I'm not sure why Lamar is questioned as much as he is. If I were to speculate, it's because he is seen as a run first QB. I've seen enough of his games to know that isn't true. I'm not completely sold on him, but I think he is less of a risk than Allen.

I hereby give all posters permission to call Mason Rudolph by his first name IF you actually felt you needed someone's permission. Let it be so.

I don't view Jackson as a "running" QB. Allen, imo, is wildly inaccurate and isn't much more than a physical specimen.

I'd take Jackson all day long over Allen to lead my team. I could obviously be wrong, but I'd take my chances on that one.

Allen seems a fit for Denver. John Elway seems to like those tall, strong-armed QBs that lack accuracy (see: Brock Osweiler and Paxton Lynch).

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/22/baker-mayfield-advance-analytics-nfl-draft-oklahoma-pff

This is what I saw when watching his tape too. The video in this article says it all for me.

I don't view Jackson as a "running" QB. Allen, imo, is wildly inaccurate and isn't much more than a physical specimen.

I'd take Jackson all day long over Allen to lead my team. I could obviously be wrong, but I'd take my chances on that one.

Allen seems a fit for Denver. John Elway seems to like those tall, strong-armed QBs that lack accuracy (see: Brock Osweiler and Paxton Lynch). [/quote]

Yup. Allen might have a bit of a better arm, but not by much. Allen's as inconsistent as Jackson, so it is a matter of arm strength. And Jackson's Arm, while not Allen's, isn't weak.

Jackson has showed that he's actually a good football player. Allen has shown he's inconsistent. He's had some decent games, and he's made some good plays. But when Jackson gets on the field, he dominates. He's the best player in all the games he's played. Allen plays in a far weaker conference and often doesn't.

Doesn't mean that I don't think Allen can become a good NFL QB. His ceiling is probably higher than Jackson. But Jackson isn't being given enough credit in this black and white world. Allen has a ton of potential, but he hasn't showed that much in college except that potential. Jackson has shown that he's a very very good football player. A team would have to build a bit around Jackson, but he's dynamic and a better QB than many are giving him credit for

My five are
1) Rosen
2) Mayfield
3) Darnold
--------------------- Cut off for guys i'm okay with in play at 1,
4) Jackson
5) Allen & Rudolph


I think all are justifiable as first round picks though

I actually think that Jackson is much more consistent then Allen. Consistent with his accuracy, decision making and playmaking. And i think Jackson production is testament to their difference in consistency. Jackson almost doubled up Allen's passing yards. Allen actually only passed for 200 more yards then Jackson ran for. Then there are a ton of PFF's advanced metrics that even further details the difference in production.

Well said.

I have a different viewpoint on the bolded portion of your post.

I don't think a team would need to build around Jackson anymore then it would for any other QB prospect.

Lamar is actually one of the few prospects that comes from a pro-style passing offense. Louisville, coincidentally, runs the Erhardt-Perkins offense. And I think Lamar's ability to handle pressure and turn would be sacks into positive plays is scheme independent benefit.

I don't think a team needs to build their offense around Lamar any more then they would for another QB. However; I think a team would maximize its offense IF they built around the extra skills that he brings. It may seem like a small distinction but don't believe Lamar needs any special tweaks to the offense to be successful; however, I think the offense benefits from building around Lamar.

I'd agree. I think you just put what I said a better way. That's sort of what I meant earlier. We could say that you elaborated on what i meant