DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Rosen

The thing about Rosen is he has missed a lot of games due to injuries and concussions.

You can’t help a team if you are on the sidelines.

It’s like Bradford when he came out. Everyone gets excited about the talent, but the injuries are a big red flag.

Sam Bradford had a major injury that required surgery leading into the draft.

I feel that the closer the calendar gets to the draft Josh Rosen will start to shoot up the draft boards. If the Browns medical team is satisfied with him I think they will draft him. If they are concerned with him medically (concussions) they will draft Darnold.

Here is a very good fansided article about the Browns and Rosen.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2018/03/20/cleveland-browns-consider-josh-rosen/

Thanks for the article. I know some people think I am biased and I guess I am..............because for the life of me, I can't believe there is even a debate on who the best qb in this particular draft is.

I do not think it is even close.

Bruce Feldman
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Am told the #Browns & the #Giants worked out QB Josh Rosen today at #UCLA.

PDX and I were discussing the USC vs UCLA game this year. At the time, I couldn't find the complete game. I have it now. It's about 3 hours long, but it's crystal clear who the better qb was in that head-to-head match-up.

I have no idea why, but I just have this feeling our FO is going to overlook the obvious.

Oh I certainly HOPE they get it right. But blind faith isn't my specialty. lol Color me snake bit.

But what I won't say is that there is only one answer. While my choice would certainly be Rosen, that doesn't mean he's the only QB in this draft that I feel has a good shot in the NFL.

While it's certainly been debated at length and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, the fact that Mayfield doesn't seem to be able to keep his emotions in check certainly crosses him off of my list. I understand that emotions can be a good thing, but when you intentionally bean an opponent in the head with a football and run from the cops, those are where the line is crossed from emotion to a lack of self control. That's just my opinion.

It's just too much of a gamble for me with such a huge investment when there are such other great options available.

Barkley is not my choice at #4 either but I could understand the pick.

Judging by the comments on this forum, no one has actually taken the time to watch this or other game videos other than those who did the research earlier, such as bonefish.

Don't educate yourselves. Just put your foot down and speak w/an authoritative voice while not bothering to take the time to actually educate yourselves.

Give it up VERS. Like I said before. This seems to be like politics or religion, VERY hard or impossible to change someones mind. I'll accept the fact that Darnold has a cleaner injury history and less background "noise" than Rosen if the other posters will accept that Rosen is the better Pro typical QB right now. We are all projecting. Does Rosen get injured a lot in the NFL? Can Darnold adapt to the NFL, Under center, multiple reads, and throw into tight windows, Can he get rid of the fumbles ? Those are the projections.. I'll take my chances with Rosen but I'll pull for Darnold if they pick him instead.

With no injury history, Rosen would be hands down the better choice. Those concussions are such huge red flags these days it's difficult to see past them. Which is why I'm glad they don't rely on forum chatter to make these choices.

jc

Figured I would take a look at the two plays that led to his concussions this past season. Unfortunately, they seem to be all but impossible to find. Any vids that speak directly of his injury show still shots (not even stills of the injury). Any highlight footage from either game (Washington, California) show nothing. I know he was "removed" from Washington game, one would think there would be video of the suspected play when the injury occured.

Anybody?

Rosen is Bernie Kosar mobility wise.

there's two reasons to hesitate on Rosen, and it is the fact that you dont know if he can stay healthy.

i'm not even worried about his leadership anymore. my homeboy said something that made a lot of sense. while he's opinionated, the things he comments on gives him credibility in the locker room.

sure, it might tick off the trump supporters, but the trump supporters aren't lining up to catch passes on the field from Rosen, or blocking for him, or playing defense on his team. so if anything, he's going into the nfl locker room with some capital to play with.

but his health, or ability to stay healthy, is a major concern. it could easily turn out that he stay relatively healthy his entire career, or he could be just another sam bradford. all the talent in the world, but can't stay on the field enough to actually show it.

but other than that, the only nitpick to his game is that he isn't as mobile as you want your modern nfl QB to be, so does he possess the ability to extend plays, especially at the nfl level where everything is much faster than it is in college?

pure passing ability, he's the best in the class and it isn't really close.

That's not true.

Why do people have to resort to making things up about a player just because they want another player?

I have tried real hard to not bash other qbs recently. I gave my initial opinions on them, but I haven't ran around here and continued to force-feed their issues. And I sure as heck don't make stuff up about them.

I don't know if I have ever seen a qb have so many outright untruths used against him before a draft. It's almost like the Draft forum and Pure Football forum are becoming the Political forum.

Timing is everything and right now is NOT the right time to takeaQB #1

the Browns have ZERO weapons on offense. with Thomas gone we have a suspect OL, we have no playmakers or threats at RB, WR, or TE.

Whichever Qb we draft will have the same fate David Carr and Tim Couch had, losing and getting the living snot beat out of them and an early exit from the league.

the Browns need weapons, they need threats...Barkley is that instant threat...he is that guy that comes in Day one rushes for 1300+ yards and also catches 40-50 balls for another 800 or so yards and could score 20 TD.

When your as bad as the Browns have been, you cna NOT afford to pass on superior talent, it doesn't matter what position they are outside of Kicker and Punter...this reaching(like we will do with the # 1 pick because the Browns never learn from their stupid mistakes) will result in another failed QB, and a few guys we should have taken having Hall of Fame Careers.

We should have taken Wentz two years ago, none of the guys in this draft is a Wentz caliber of talent. Honestly this is the year we should try and move down 5. We can get Rudolph who i think could sit a year or two behind Taylor and turn out pretty well.

there is NOT a magic bullet that exists for our Qb problems, we MUST develop one. Browns have shown no patience developing one...had Kizer stayed a year more at ND he would be the top Qb in this draft...Kizer from a talent standpoint is better then any of these guys outside of Allen...better arm, better height, better size, mobile, etc...only thing Kizer lacked is expereince.

Hell this team wouldn't even give a 21 year old rookie one year despite him being the only QB since 2000 to make it throught the whole year...how much time you think rosen gets? if he isn't Manning out the gate, I hope he is ready to pack his bags lol

I must admit sometimes is funny to watch the Browns total fultility...i was hoping Dorsey was the guy to change this, and take BPA, but its not looking like thats the case...

Parcells, Bellichik, both those guys take Barkley at #1 regardless...knowing the math says a similiar rated QB you could get at #1 would be there at 4....thats why Parcells and Bellichik are Super Winning machines and the Browns have sucked for the better part of two decades...

i guess landry, Gordon, and Duke aren't weapons.

Some wish to wait until the team is completely built to draft a QB. You know, when your record is already 8-8 and you have to settle for like the 4th QB in the draft and a long shot to ever make it in the league.

And BLOW your wad having to move up for anything resembling a GOOD QB, much like Miami, Buffalo and Arizona situations.

Some NEVER will understand the importance of a TOP Talent at QB. Not a 22 pick in a Quinn, Weeden, Manziel.

This stuff blows my mind as much as some dude I heard on the radio earlier saying take Jackson at 4. OMG.

I did watch the game last night, and I don't think either guy really separated himself from the other. Rosen definitely had more opportunities, but I don't really hold it against Darnold that he didn't have to do as much due to a special teams TD and a good goal line rushing offense.

Rosen did look like the better rhythm passer. Some of that is due to the nature of his offense. He did have some nice passes, but not really wow passes. When USC blitzed, his line generally did a good job of picking it up, and Rosen made them pay for trying to man up Lasley with a safety w/ no help. But, he had more passes batted down and pretty much laid down in the face of interior pressure a few times. One could argue that there was "nothing he could do" in some of those cases, but therein lies some of his problem. Nothing he could do. He can manipulate the pocket. But, when it's just him and a defender, he's getting walloped. Darnold can still often make things happen in those one on one situations.

Darnold showed some of his looseness with the football on his near turnovers and had some miscommunications with his receivers after things broke down. He did however show his ability to escape pressure and probably had more wow throws. His mechanics aren't the greatest, but he's shown natural accuracy in those non-perfect situations.

Rosen's offense probably transfers to the NFL better and has him "more ready." But, Sam offers the wow factor that people can get caught up in. With Tyrod in the fold, our draft pick doesn't necessarily have to be ready at the jump.

Rosen is the better "on schedule" QB. Darnold is the better "off schedule" QB. I see Darnold's ability to get better "on schedule" as more likely than Rosen getting better in "off schedule" situations.

Having said all that, I wouldn't be upset with either QB.

I'm not sure when he sustained the concussions, but I do know he missed significant time due to two concussions. If he suffers one in the NFL, how long will he be out for? Will he come back even?

How many of our QB's have suffered concussions? plenty. Makes me really hesitate on him. Other than those concussions, I'd be all about him.

Well said.

I've posted some of the plays,from that game, that speak to Rosen's limitations when faced with free rusher.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1413176/edromeo#Post1413176

I would post some of the plays Darnold made in that game when faced with similar free rusher situations but you've watched the game and saw it. Plus, it seems people aren't really into the film breakdown stuff.

I think the chart below gives a good statistical representation of the difference between how they handle free rushers because free rushers would be included as part of this metric:


But like you said, Rosen is probably more "pro-ready". And for me Rosen is the more accurate passer between the 2 of them. I'm still not sure if there is an arm strength difference between them, which I could have watched them side by side.

Whether Rosen's polish trumps Darnold's playmaking is a matter of preference.

Caveat: This is simply guys talking about football specifics.
This does not mean I dislike Rosen as prospect. I think both are good prospects. Just talking in specific aspect of their game.

I have no problem w/your take. It's football talk. We might disagree on a thing or two, but who cares.

What bothers me is that there are so many people just making things up.

I also have no problem w/guys not watching game videos, but when they try to act like experts and disrespect the opinion of those who do.......well, that is a problem.

This used to be fun, but it's not so much fun anymore.

I have some real questions about Rosen. I worry about the concussions he's had in college. I wonder how physically strong he is. He does not look that strong. I am concerned about his leadership abilities.
If I did not have these questions he would be at the top of my list. I am sure the Browns have checked out everything about Rosen and will make the right decision. I have a lot more faith in Dorsey, Wolf and Hightower making the right choice than any of the past Browns regimes.

Farmer wouldn't even have interviewed him but would go #1 overall with it lol. I have more faith as' well, but prove it to me John! I can't get passed the concussions aspect. If I did, leadership questions would be raised. Two things that's no beuno when talking about a potential franchise QB.

I haven't heard much about leadership issues, and I don't knock the guys toughness or strength. He looks the QB part to me. But I do question those concussions. That's it! For those telling me to watch the tape, watch the games, and that he's the best QB, I don't disagree. The dude could have Andrew Luck hype coming into the draft and I'd still have to pause and consider those concussions. A lot of players these days are considering early retirement due to concussions suffered in the NFL. This guy has already had two, that we know of in college. If he gets even one in the NFL, that might be it for him and that was one hell of a wasted pick.

I'm no doctor, but it does seem to me that a history of concussions does make you more susceptible to future concussions. So him being the best overall thrower, athlete, and QB god does not make me up and forget about his concussion history.

That's not making anything up. His concussions are real, and he missed significant time from the most recent one.

Do I still like him and will I be good if we draft him?
Yep! Because I trust Dorsey so far to make the right choice. And He'll have had to see plenty of doctors.

Been that way for along time. No gray area, no middle ground, fight to win the argument not uncover the truth.


This has been going on at this forum for a long time, definitely not new. It's normally why I avoid talking specifics, I'll swoop in, give my take and rarely rebut unless someone asks me to or is just being such a dick that I can't help myself.

I am every bit as aggro as when I was younger I just realize message board supremacy is laughable in life.

The leadership and team chemistry have been talked a lot, how haven't you heard that...

Not saying they are true but its an issue with Rosen....

I think it's been an issue with people making excuses why we shouldn't draft Rosen but their guy instead. Sometimes people create issues where there aren't issues.

Maybe with some but not me. Seems like everyone has a favorite QB to take in the draft. I just want the Browns to get it right for once. I don't care who likes who on this board as it doesn't affect my thinking in the least. There is no perfect QB available but picking at #1 the Browns need to get the best QB. It looks like they are determined to do that.

lol. Agreed. I don't think anyone on here can say that Josh Rosen has leadership issues or love of the game issues or whatever.

That's up to the Browns to figure out, but I dunno how we can, on this message board, really speculate about that given the information we have

The only legitimate concern I see is the concussion issue. There is one thing to consider though. I'd venture to say EVERYONE who has played organized football for any length of time has suffered concussions. They may have not been reported, or even diagnosed. But they have happened. You don't play such a violent sport and not suffer some head trauma.

I played fullback and linebacker in high school and I know I suffered head trauma while I played. Most of my teammates did as well at one point or the other. We are at a point in history that they're looked at closer, reported and the proper precautions are being taken.

I remember when Benjamin Watson played TE here. He started getting concussions and my first instinct was to get rid of him. I felt that the concussions were a big issue. That was in 2012. Watson has played every season since.