DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Holocaust Denier Arthur Jones Wins Illinois GOP Congressional Primary, Says He’s Merely an 'American Patriot’

The message was sent loud and clear though. That’s what you seek to be missing in all of this.

This bill was right up there with challenging the holocaust denier in Illinois.. it has nothing to do with substance. It accomplished nothing.

My only guess is that you want the GOP to be more like the DNC.. and make a big show PRETENDING to not have a bunch of racists in their party.. when in fact, both do. But I will give credit where credit is due, the DNC is much better at keeping theirs hidden.

It sent a clear message when they didn’t even want to hear it.

You can downplay the significance all you want, that inaction is being talked about nationally. So is this loser running under the gop banner.

And my point is "the message" is going to be whatever you claim it to be.

Same situation: you interpret it as being sympathetic to white supremacists.

I interpret as a an act that has no business taking place in that venue because that venue is meant for hammering out laws.


Just because I don't think it's the correct function of that body, doesn't mean I am sympathetic to white supremacy.

Swish, there's a real danger when you mix social movements and statements with the power of gov't. It will bleed over, it will mix. Right now you may think that would be ok... but societal views change. Our history shows that.

It's the same kind of mindset that they used to justify slavery and make Jim Crow law.

Yes, I get white supremacists are the subject of the current mood and I'm not saying anyone should be sympathetic to them. I'm looking past them. I'm looking toward a future where it's a different topic, it's a different mood in the country, and maybe it's you or me that ends up in the crosshairs of this legislative virtue signaling. If we already established that it's ok to mix those things, what are we going to do when we get a legit Hitler or Stalin 2.0, and they've changed the mood and the power structure of this country? You have to see such a thing is possible.


Honestly man, I really wish sometimes that it would be possible to have a conversation. An actual dialogue not based on trying to "win", or viewing it as a power struggle. A forum where there's some room to just throw some ideas out, kick them around, especially if they are disagreeable. An actual exchange of ideas. This whole all or nothing approach doesn't get anyone anywhere.

accept that mindset is still alive and well.

its why your whole post just doesn't make any sense, or at least isn't reflective on what american society is currently.

social movements and power of government?

thats like peanut butter and jelly. social movements is what defines the people and its government. was it not a social and political movement that FOUNDED this very nation?

come on dude, you are seriously trippin hard right now

i mean, what is this?

"I'm looking past them"

as if you're the only one who doesn't have that goal? you don't think i would desire to look past them?

i CANT. you understand that? its easy for you to act like that, because they aren't targeting YOU, they are targeting people who look like ME.

seriously. you're talking about not trying to "win", but isn't that how ANYTHING gets changed? by the WINNING argument?

guys like Arthur jones are the biggest threat to minorities, and has been that way since the end of slavery. charlottesville?

thats crap wasn't aimed at you, that crap was aimed at people that look like chs, myself, and clem.

yet you're gonna sit there and try to claim that we should be looking past it?

we still got politicians blatantly catering to the racist of the country.

so have an actual dialogue of what, when you can't even acknowledge basic facts? we got people who still can't even denounce white supremacy without playing what about.

its like when rich people try to claim that "money isn't everything".

easy to say that when you already have money.

i've been dialoguing.

The country that rapidly privatized their resources, created a prison-labor complex and gave corporations tax cuts and subsidies is the party of the Left?

Couple of points than I gotta bounce which sucks cuz it's getting good.

First, with all due respect, no, you haven't been dialoging. going low interjecting comments about me attending Klan meetings is not dialogue. (And I know you don't mean deep down). Purposefully misconstruing and misrepresenting a point I've made, or arbitrarily assign motives you know are't mine isn't dialogue. That's viewing an interaction as purely a power struggle.. not an exchange of ideas.

Which leads me to your next point.. power.

Yes, winning and being in power is a way to affect change. I agree 100%. It's also the fastest way to affect change. It's also the fastest method to achieve based upon how much of your morality you are willing to suspend in order to achieve it (i.e. like killing anyone who disagrees with you). The problem with using the force of your power to make that change is that you have to continue to use or at least constantly threaten to use that force. That's what turns in to oppression. In that circumstance, once the person in power slips up, they quickly find themselves out of power.

Another way to affect change is through consensus. Consensus takes much longer and requires greater sacrifice over a long period of time, often where the people making those sacrifices never live long enough to see the fruits of their labors. But the benefit of consensus is that when the winds change for the worse, it's significantly harder to force those changes on people.

There's pros and cons to both paths. The problem is finding the collective wisdom to show us which is the right one to go down and when.

And as for looking past... please don't take that to mean "get over it". I'm talking about, I guess, a more philosophical approach to a rule set or guidelines on how we tackle issues. I really believe there has to be consideration for the future and how what we implement today can be turned against us tomorrow. I have less of a problem with the solutions people I disagree with propose and more of a concern with the means by which they are willing to achieve them.

I guess if I had one suggestion/criticism... stop alienating people so casually if they don't agree with you from the outset. If you want to go the "power" route, than so be it, but understand that means you are setting the terms of the game. And that means others are going to play to win just as hard as you.

I don't know if the aftermath is going to be worth it because I honestly don't know what the aftermath looks like.

I have a bit more commentary on tribalism and group identity but I've got to jet. Hopefully I can pick it back up over the next couple days.

In then end, got nothin but love ya bro. Pit and OCD... eh... I don't know lol Just kidding, I'm sure they're good guys too.

my dialogue doesn't just include this thread.

this isn't the first time we've had these convos, at least as far as the board as a whole goes.

consensus kinda of works, kinda doesn't. power and influence has always been the way.

for example, even though MLK had a great message, it didn't come to a "consensus" until he got shot. the influence after that made people go "ok, this is out of control now"

but without that, there's no telling how long we would've gone before the civil rights act gets passed...if ever.

you get that right? think about it bro. that got past in 1964. how many people are alive and well that remember those days? it wasn't that long ago, and that mentality still exist today.

"Consensus takes much longer and requires greater sacrifice over a long period of time"

man please. how long have we've been fighting to get treated as equals? people are tired of waiting, bro. straight up.

i didn't set the terms of the game. i was born into it, so i play by the same set of rules they do.

And yet he has proven you wrong day by day by just being the president

did you say last jan - he wouldn't make summer? Then fall, then by surely he wasn't going to make xmas.....

lol

j/c

When you poop in your own toilet and refuse to flush it, pretty soon you start blaming the stench it causes on your neighbor.

Our wisdom post for the day.

It doesn't take much to do better than your posts.

what?

It was obviously the wife.

And that could be. Point being, it's till your toilet and it's still coming from your house.

I said the wife, not my wife. ive been telling the neighbor lady to stay out.

honestly man, your analogy missed the mark more than I do the toilet at 3am after a 40 to 3 browns loss.

Not really. You need to get the stench out of your own house before you go talking about the stench in the houses of others. I can see how you would miss the point. Sometimes the most obvious of things can be over people's heads though.

The only stench I smell is that original post of yours.

See what happens when you don't flush your own toilet? Don't say I didn't warn you.

ummmmm.......20k.

Holocaust Denier Racks Up Votes in Illinois Primary

https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-ro...-477529603.html

Art Jones, a Holocaust denier, received more than 20,000 votes in Illinois’ 3rd Congressional District race.

Jones ran uncontested in the Republican primary setting up a race between Democratic winner Dan Lipinski in November. Incomplete results show Lipinski receiving over 45,000 votes to challenger Marie Newman's 44,000.

Jones, who years ago was associated with the Nazi Party, got 13,158 votes in suburban Cook County and 3,023 across 10 Chicago wards and 4,093 in Will County.

Jones has been a perennial candidate on Chicago’s Southwest Side.

Pritzker, Rauner to Face Off in Battle of the Billionaires
Here is the breakdown of votes for Jones by wards:

11th Ward: 371

12th Ward: 61

'Literally Blood is Flowing' at Some Polling Places: Clerk
13th Ward: 468

14th Ward: 198

15th Ward: 25

16th Ward: 12

18th Ward: 82

19th Ward: 1,220

20th Ward: 4

23rd Ward: 539

The Illinois GOP worked to disassociate itself from Jones after it was revealed that he alone would represent the Republican Party in the Congressional District.

"I am running for this office because I am concerned about the future of our country," Jones' website reads. "I am not now, nor have I ever been a follower of any political party, though I am a registered Republican."

Just for comparison, in 2014 general election in this district, the republican got 65k votes.. now this dude was running unopposed so I'm sure folks weren't compelled to vote one way or the other... but it will be interesting to see how many he gets in the general.. I sure hope it's a lot less than the 65k.. otherwise it's confirmation that the party publicly distancing themselves from him had no impact on the voters.

for comparison, hillary lost some states by less than 100k.

20k is significant if you at it from a big picture standpoint.

but then there's people acting like these sorts of people didn't help trump.

anyway, yes, it would've helped if the GOP actually ran a candidate. if this loser could get 20k, imagine what a somewhat decent republican congressmen might have got?

it wouldve at least saved the party, and its conservative base, from some embarrassment.

but thats why i said before, it will be interesting to see how many votes he gets, win or lose.

message has been sent loud and clear.

obviously when your stench smells like roses, your point is pointless.

Did you get that from a Jr. High School student?

I'm in total agreement Swish.. in the 2014 election where the GOP got 65k, the democrat got like 120k.. it was almost double.

So no, the GOP is NOT going to win this district regardless of who they run but you should still try to put up a candidate who can articulate your beliefs.. It actually does reflect on surrounding districts and the nation as a whole... it's not enough to let this guy run under your banner unopposed and say, "Well, we don't like him so it's all good."

The state GOP has denounced Jones and says it will try to field an independent to run.

That is no way to treat a Patriot.