DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Roster Breakdown Continued (with PFF Grades)

Playing 3 LBs the whole game says more about the difference between the 3rd Safety vs the 3rd LB and is less a commentary about Peppers/Kindred ability to take a one of the LBs off the field.

For Kindred/Peppers to cover TEs, RBs and slots then someone else has to play FS and SS.

Peppers inability to make plays as an extreme FS doesn't say much to me one way or another about his ability to cover TEs, RBs and the occasional slot receiver.

I disagree w/that take. Typically, corners play more in nickel and dime defenses than back up safeties.

The answer why that is so is obvious. Generally speaking, corners are better cover guys than safeties.

Next year might be an exception. When we run dime defenses and maybe even in some nickel situations, Randall might move to cover corner and Kindred and Peppers will man the safety positions.

I also want to clarify something I said earlier. I brought up ed and cfrs talking about how our Mike wouldn't play much and specifically how cfrs said he would 5 percent of the time.

I was not dissing them. I got that line of thinking. I disagreed w/them a bit at the time and said I thought it would be around 32--36 percent of the time, but we all agreed that the dude would play less than half the snaps.

Nickel sub-packages can be fielded by removing a LB for a CB "nickel" or for S "big" nickel.

Either way playing a 3rd LB in nickel situations isn't a commentary on the starting SS and FS because they are already on the field. Playing a 3rd LB in nickel is a commentary on the 3rd LB vs 3rd S vs 4th CB.

It is a commentary and an evaluation and there is no doubt about that.

Adding Randall at FS and Gaines, Currie and Mitchell at CB makes he competition for nickel coverage playing time much tighter.

Collins/Kirko vs Peppers/Kindred vs Mitchel/Taylor/Calhoun

Yes, I agree w/that.

We aren't there yet, but Dorsey has certainly improved that unit.

I also think that Schobert played pretty well last year, and made it hard for the coaches to take him off the field.

Love it.

Adding Tyrod and Juice are huge upgrades for an offensive unit that was kinda lost,from the personnel standpoint, last year.

Tyrod is a huge bump from Kizer and from the QBs that have played for the Browns for awhile.

Landry is 180 from Britt, Higgins and Louis. Plus, he'll provide veteran leadership to Coleman.

But for the receiving corps to reach its potential then 1) Gordon is going need to stay clean (and focused) 2) Coleman is gonna have to stay healthy and fulfill some of his potential. 3) Njoku is gonna have to continue to develop

I think Landry can help with Coleman. Gordon? I think everyone is hopeful with their fingers crossed. Fells should speed Njoku's development.

Shon Coleman is a bigtime question mark. I think the hands on work from Joe Thomas is gonna speed up his development.
And bringing in Fells was a blocking TE was a smart move.

I don't think you lose anything going from Crow to Hyde at RB.

My main question marks are:

WR depth
LT

Draft:

Would love to see Saquan Barkley dropped into this offense

Would target an X receiver

Keep an eye out for developmental OL

I expect big things from this offense compared to years past ...

We have lots of OFFENSIVE BRAIN POWER in the building and they have some toys to play with ....

And were not done adding yet ...

I might consider making this specific post multiple times in every thread regardless if I have something to say on the thread topic or not. And that is...

When you are replying to someone please click on their "Reply" icon under their name instead of using the "Quick Reply". The quick reply references the original thread starter and that confuses exactly to whom one is responding.

It's only one-more-click and it removes a lot of confusion in the middle of a discussion.

Unless you use the quick reply directly under a posters comment instead of at the bottom of the page. Like I just did replying to you.

Fixed it.

I wondered the same thing about Vitale FB until I realized he's ERFA. Maybe Ogbah still listed as injured?

Ogbah definitely not traded or anything. But yeah, broken foot he is still listed as injured even though he should be completely ready for training camp.

Why would even start Peppers....Peppers was the worst player of the team, even worst than Kiser...

Smart move would be to sign Eric Reid to play FS(81.4 Pff), start Kindred (82.1 PFF) in SS , and draft an ILB/OLB (Edmunds or Roquan)...

:-)

Let's not get silly... but yeah, Peppers was awful. He should definitely do better as a SS, but potential should never earn you the starting spot.

Kindred played well last season. Why we're tossing him aside for a guy that didn't earn diddly last season is very confusing.

What did you think of Kindred during his rookie year?

he was not the starter... whats your point?

You have a point in there.... but Kindred has been evolving and developing something Peppers hasn't.

And to Kindred's defense, he never looked has bad has Peppers, he would be cut if he did.

And regarding the whole Peppers position discussion, I think Peppers was drafted to play FS, and honestly think he would be an even worst SS than he is at FS.

He just stinks

well the point is why would you bench kindred for a unknown? kindred is still devoping too... the problem is the way the team was built....

Kindred, an actual safety in college, started 5 games.
He struggled when asked to play outside of his ability as deep 1/2 field safety.

Most of the board thought he was terrible.

This year he played a role more in keeping with his ability at SS and has played well.

He progressed, he improved and was put in a better position. (kinda like Joe Schobert)

Peppers, a rookie completely new to safety position, played in very extreme deep safety role (even by normal FS standards). Williams asked Peppers to play that extreme deep safety role to protect the CBs.
Peppers started 13 games and was not benched for performance.

Most of the board thinks he's terrible.

So Kindred stunk when he was a rookie playing a different spot. Peppers as a rookie stunk as a rookie playing in a different spot. Kindred moves to his natural spot and looks good in his second year. My question is, why people think Peppers won't play better year too. Sounds like some kind of bias is present.

Ed, I didn't really mean to reply this to you, it was just a general statement thinking about what I have read in the previous posts.

First off all i'm not even saying you should bench Kindred. Based on how Gregg has called his defense with the Rams Peppers or Kindred could slide into the Nickel Linebacker role ala Mark Baron.

But, since you are asking why Peppers over Kindred? My answer would be that I believe the staff thinks Peppers is better.
Peppers was drafted higher. Peppers is more physically gifted. When it comes to man coverage from the SS position I think Peppers is a lot better then Kindred. And when they needed a deep FS they chose Peppers over Kindred. Imho if the staff thought Kindred was better then they would have played him at the deep FS role.

But again, with Randall on the team at FS. Then you can play Peppers/Kindred at the SS and the nickel linebacker Mark Barron role.

This what I mean in my above post.

pretty good answer..

the bias is people think he should have that spot just because he first round pick... not sure if that is going to wash anymore... i hope not lol

Especially since the CBs have been upgraded. They shouldn't need the 'protection' the CBs needed last season.

Man, I really hope we take a QB at #1 and then Chubbs at #4. Chubbs would almost finish out the defense. Plus, with Ogbah back the three of them could generate a real pass rush. Plus again, Ogbah can play rush from the interior as well. So can Garrett.

Last season we had either guys playing new to a position, or out of position or lacking talent, (outside CBs especially), to have much defensive success, and still played well at times. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming season from both sides of the ball.

I understand that it will take some time for these new players to acclimate to the scheme and each other but we should see improvement rather quickly.

We’ve improved in the secondary and the results should be immeidate ...

Problem is ddub ... we didn’t improve near as much as appearantly u and most think ...

We need one if not two starting caliber cb’s and we need a FS IMO ...

If u want to put your faith in a guy who was no WHERES near a stud coming out at FS and hasn’t played the position in 3 years ... thats your choice .... im not good with that with the caliber of player Fitz is ...

If we do take Chubb ... i’ll say I didn’t agree with the pick once or twice and then root like hell for me to be wrong and u guys to be right ...

Then we’ll talk in 3 years ...

I’d definetly rather take Ward than Chubb ...

One more thing ... if we do take Chubb and i think we will ... Dorsey did the same thing in KC ... drafted the 3rd pass rusher and ignored the secondary .... it didn’t work out so well for the3 Chefs ...

Anyhow .. not my point ... if we do go that way ...

Why would u eve3r move Garret inside ... that would be MORONIC ... u dont move GUMBY INSIDE ... GIVE THE MAN ROOM TO OPERATE ....

Randall was the top rated S in his draft class. Just so happened he could also play CB and the Packers were desperate at CB.

I remember his measurables were up there with Earl.

If he came out in this class where would he have been ranked at the FS position ...

Not that i care ... that was a weak ass safety class and FS was the weaker of the two ... then u go on to tell me he was picked to play CB ... im not so sure that really helps your argument ...

He hasn’t played the position since college ... if u think hes the answer ... well your in the MAJORITY ... *L* ...

When we pass on Fitz ... i hope ya’all are right and im wrong as could be ...

Mike Mayock had Randall listed as his #1 Safety prospect in 2015, even ahead of Landon Collins who has turned out to be pretty good and most draft sites had Randall rated as a second round pick.

You certainly wouldn't want to move him there permanent, but I can see a situation where you move BOTH Chubb and Garrett to the inside and put Ogbah and a Nassib on the Outside.

I would even put Nassib ( or whoever) on the defensive right and ask him to neutralize the LT, typically the best pass blocker,... with the inside push and Ogbah coming from the QB's right, the natural instinct will be to roll left.

Difficult for a Right handed QB to stop, pivot and throw back, so you have effectively cut the field in half.

Rotate your coverage to that side, slide the SS down and out to the hashes you have pinned the QB and the passing game to 1/3 of the field. Effective against the RPO offense.

That actually sounds great on paper ... not sure how affective it would be once the ball was snapped though ... a bunch of reasons for that .... Nassib is good at “occupying” a blocker ... *L*

i’d leave MG and Chubb on the outside ,.. MG’s special ... i’m not going to be the one to make him a mere mortal by moving him out of position ... I’m not over thinking that one ... u want to move him to the other side ... thats fine ...

Go ahead and pick witch one to double team ... i’ll Take my chances with the other one ... afterall if we do draft Chubb are we not drafting him cause hes a GREAT PASS RUSHER ...

U want to run stunts every once in awhile ... i get it ... move Chubb around and stunt with him .. i’m leaving Gumby be ...

I’m pretty certain Chubbs going to be the pick ... and i dont think its a good pick with our needs and Fitz out there ... but he certainly is one hell of a football player ... i’ll Look forward to seeing what we do with that front 7 ... i thought we had a pretty good one last year til we lost more of the front 4 and now 7 then played most weeks ...

And Chubb will add to it ... hes a very very interesting piece ... i just dont believe hes the best piece ...