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Ed made a post about how Bill Walsh said 1 out of every 5 plays ends up in a “scramble” situation for the qb ....
I wonder what that number would be out of every 5 plays today ... it would be interesting to see how that number has increased over the last 20 years in 3 year increments ...
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I think everything varies. There is no blueprint that is the only blueprint to follow - other than picking elite talent.
If 1 in 4 plays breakdown in today's NFL - it doesn't matter if you have the right QB. Neither Manning brother was a scrambler - they both have multiple rings. Brady is not a scrambler - he is perhaps GOAT. . . . If Rosen is that good, it won't matter that he's not a scrambler. If Darnold turns the ball over and defenses are too fast for a loopy throwing motion it won't matter that he has good pocket awareness or can extend plays.
Of all the talking points - I think scrambling, while a factor/consideration, is one that falls low on my list of priorities. A similar sort of trait that Darnold has shown that I think is more important is the ability to slide in the pocket without scrambling. jmo
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Stats are for ........
Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Big Ben [since Haley took over,] Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, Jimmy G, Jared Goff, etc.
Being able to make quick reads and deliver the ball on time is a huge asset and is far superior to athletes running all over the place.
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Stats are for ........
Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Big Ben [since Haley took over,] Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, Jimmy G, Jared Goff, etc.
Being able to make quick reads and deliver the ball on time is a huge asset and is far superior to athletes running all over the place. lol, 100 percent agree I think people sometimes forget about the most important aspects of the position. Accuracy, anticipation, ability to read defenses before the snap, and ability to make a quick read and strike after the snap. Release speed and arm strength are check marks, that after viewed as strong enough, become less important than the rest of these traits
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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 ... Good one ... I wanted to know out of curiosity’s sake ... how much “heavier” the pass rushing has gotten ... It doesnt change the SKILLS ive ALWAYS VALUED as mot important .. not even a little ... And not u .. but 88 in particular ... don’t confuse scrambling with POCKET MANIPULATION ... i value POCET MANIPULATION way more than i do scrambling ... Joe, manning, Brady ... they couldn’t scramble to save their lives ... but they MANIPULATED THE HELL out of the POCKET with just 3 or 4 steps in whatever direction they could move to ... Thats way more important than scrambling to me ... And if u NOTICE ... i said i wanted the STAT over a 20 year period in 3 year increments ... thats the PROPER WAY TO USE STATS in this case ... 
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....
Last edited by edromeo; 03/26/18 11:08 AM.
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Stats are for......
(is that like a new greeting?)
Being able to make quick reads and deliver the ball on time are requirements for high level QB play. But it is not mutually exclusive from being able to lol, "run all over the place."
A list of QBs that can escape from pressure and make plays would include Ben, Goff, Garapollo and Kirk Cousins. They are guys that can do both along with a bunch of guys that weren't mentioned.
Also, when posters are speaking specifically about 1 trait it shouldn't be grounds to make assumptions about their views about other traits.
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One way to look at the list of QBs a list of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning and Matt Ryan it kinda suggests that if you can't "run all over the place" you need to be a HOF caliber QB.
Last edited by edromeo; 03/26/18 11:36 AM.
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And not u .. but 88 in particular ... don’t confuse scrambling with POCKET MANIPULATION ... i value POCET MANIPULATION way more than i do scrambling ...
I can never tell with half your posts .... are you agreeing with me then? Scrambling isn't that important, but pocket manipulation/sliding in the pocket is more valuable and not the same thing??? You seem to spend so much time wanting to talk down or laugh at other posters it's hard to know what you were trying to say.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I think we agree ... my take is that as long as a QB can manipulate the pocket .. hes mobile enough for me ... if they can “scramble” or run .. dont matter to me ... it sounds like u agree that the pocket manipulation is whats important ... so i think we agree ... not sure how much value u place on “scrambling” (see below) or running ...
I wasn’t trying to be an ass for once ... i know .. hard to believe ... *L* ..
To me .. pocket manipulation is staying in the pocket ... scrambling to me means escaping the pocket .. so for me ... no their not the same ...
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We agree 100%.
A little off topic but what's most important to me in a QB is really simple: Accuracy, Reading a D (intelligence) and anticipation (throwing the receiver open and not waiting to see the WR has separation).
I think there's 3 really outstanding QB's in the draft and I would be happy with any of them. I think they all show above average ability in those 3 areas. I think the knock on Mayfield is his height, but I think he's got enough in the tank of those 3 characteristics that he will overcome the challenge that his height brings.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I’m with u on the qb traits I VALUE the most also ... said since i was 20 years old .. and i’m An old ass man now ...  ... *L* ... ACCURACY and BRIANS ... By accuracy i dont mean completion % .. i mean hitting recievers in stride for YAC ... By brains i mean the entire ball of wax ... pre and post snap reads .. understanding what your seeing pre snap and the ability to quickly proccess game info once the ball is snapped ... U give me a guy who knows where It should go and get it there w/o the reciever breaking stride ... i can work with him ... Look at all the greats ... the other attributes may vary ... but they all have those two traits ...
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How did we go from talking specifcally about the difference between Darnold and Rosen when it comes to playmaking to this current convo?
Last edited by edromeo; 03/26/18 12:26 PM.
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U actually started it ... *LOL* ...
U mentioned that Walsh said that one on five pass plays breaks down and the qb is forced to make a play ... i was curious and wanted to know what the ratio of pass plays that break down today is ... so i asked ...
Now here we are ...
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I’m with u on the qb traits I VALUE the most also ... said since i was 20 years old .. and i’m An old ass man now ... ... *L* ... ACCURACY and BRIANS ... By accuracy i dont mean completion % .. i mean hitting recievers in stride for YAC ... By brains i mean the entire ball of wax ... pre and post snap reads .. understanding what your seeing pre snap and the ability to quickly proccess game info once the ball is snapped ... U give me a guy who knows where It should go and get it there w/o the reciever breaking stride ... i can work with him ... Look at all the greats ... the other attributes may vary ... but they all have those two traits ... So.........how in the hell can you not want Rosen as our qb?
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Concussions is the #1 reason ... I also like Darnold a SMIDGE more ... and i mean a SMALL SMIDGE ... If we take Rosen I will not be upset even a little bit ... i like him ALOT ALSO ... well OK .. maybe a little dissapointed but not upset ... I agree with everything u say about Rosen ... HES GOOD ... hes by far the most NFL ready in this group ... i just like Sam a smidge more ... its not like Sam is innacurate or stupid ...  ...
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Concussions is the #1 reason ... I also like Darnold a SMIDGE more ... and i mean a SMALL SMIDGE ... If we take Rosen I will not be upset even a little bit ... i like him ALOT ALSO ... well OK .. maybe a little dissapointed but not upset ... I agree with everything u say about Rosen ... HES GOOD ... hes by far the most NFL ready in this group ... i just like Sam a smidge more ... its not like Sam is innacurate or stupid ... ... +1
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Roses concussions and the talk about him not being a great teammate or not being 100% on football worry me... I'd be fine with either but I think darnold is safer pick...
<><
#gmstrong
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The talk of him not being a great teammate and not being into football are fabricated stories that have no factual evidence.
That is why I got on some guys for spreading those stupid ass rumors. People read it and assume it's true.
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https://247sports.com/Bolt/The-contrary-...rnold-106589651 Facts about Rosen- rich kid-flown all over country in hs for sports, doesn't need football, fights authority- Dilfer, HS game, hot tub in dorm room- rich/special, political- UCLA/Under Armor contract, BR football and school don't go together- political....negatives- he's been hurt bad in HS and college- shoulders twice and concussions PLURAL....I see him leading league boycott due to concussion issues...or quitting after several hits from grown men who WANT to knock him out of game.....he's NOT what Cleveland needs.....GO Browns!!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
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I think you have taken one too many "hitts" to the head. Jesus!
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I kinda like that he doesn't need it. He does it because he wants to. The guys who need it are the ones who stop working after their first big contract.
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The article is a good read, positive about both players. It's from before the USC/UCLA game so it's a bit dated.
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Jim Mora: “I’d take Sam Darnold if I was the @Browns.” Well, that's a little interesting to hear Mora say this.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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He also said Josh Rosen is the better QB. So he’s basically advocating a team to take the less talented player. Jim Mora is coming off as a total dolt in these interviews.
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He also said Josh Rosen is the better QB. So he’s basically advocating a team to take the less talented player. Jim Mora is coming off as a total dolt in these interviews. Jim Mora? A dolt? Who could have seen that coming.
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Jim Mora? A dolt? Who could have seen that coming. I mean he is unemployed as a coach despite having a potential first pick in the draft leading his team. 
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My favorite Jim Mora memory is watching him take huffs of anomia pills while coaching in the NFL and then stopping the habit abruptly because he didn't want to glorify drug use.
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U actually started it ... *LOL* ...
U mentioned that Walsh said that one on five pass plays breaks down and the qb is forced to make a play ... i was curious and wanted to know what the ratio of pass plays that break down today is ... so i asked ...
Now here we are ...
My favorite Walsh Quote is.
"Champions behave like Champions before they are Champions."
Which for some reason fits Darnold and Mayfield.
jmho
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Today I went back to look at some more Darnold tape.
Sure I saw some bad decisions with poor results.
But he is 20 and has played two seasons.
What else I saw was incredible play making ability. Great reads. Going to secondary receivers. Throws in the air before the guy is out of his break. Superior ball placement.
Terrific instincts while under pressure. Running, keeping eyes downfield, finding the open guy.
Darnold made history at USC in two years as a 19 and 20 year old guy. His record 24-4. Home record 12-0.
I have zero doubts about Darnold. His flaws are correctable. What he brings unteachable.
Let alone what his coach and teammates think about him as a leader.
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The big factor to me is... there's no hurry for him to see the field!
He can get garbage time (which I'm hoping there's less of) for some film to study. Pre season play etc.
It's a luxury we either never had or wanted or was too dumb create.
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Having TT and Stanton insures there is no rush.
Let him develop. When he is ready play him.
It is a perfect scenario for Darnold. This young man holds a boatload of promise. It is my belief he will mature into a great player and be a franchise quarterback.
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All I know is ed who does a great job with the internet and Stats/facts. Keeps showing these stats, I'm thinking to show how bad Allen could be as a pick. But Mayfield is like so so far ahead in all those areas. That I was a closet Mayfield guy...now I'm out of the closet. Man I want that kid.
Darnold is a #2 guy for me in choice.
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Darnold is my #1, but I think I'd be OK with Rosen or Mayfield.
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Darnold is my #1, but I think I'd be OK with Rosen or Mayfield.
Not Allen
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yeah I honestly think we will win with any of the 3. They are good. At first I thought Darnold cause I do think that is who the Browns will take. But the more I thought about it, I was like that is being untrue to myself. I truly favor Mayfield so came out of the closet so to speak...lol 
I see an upside with all 3. I think there is a wide gap after the 3. Allen, Rudolf and Lamar that we should not be thinking about at #1.
I would love to make the trade back with Denver so they can take Allen and we get #40 and still have the first positional player. All for that.
jmho if Darnold is the pick. the next day he will become my favorite QB
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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The only thing that I am cautious about regarding college stats is that they are college stats. And that can be very misleading.
This is about projecting into the NFL and over a career.
There are things I really like about Mayfield.
But there are things that give me pause.
Rosen and Darnold are different quarterbacks when comparing the two. My thoughts are Darnold can do what Rosen does. Rosen can not do what Darnold does.
Mayfield is kind of a smaller version of Darnold. Both can work in and out of the pocket. Both guys can extend plays and make plays with their arm and feet. Both are very accurate. Their accuracy numbers are close but they ran much different offenses.
Allen is a gamble. And I don't think that is necessary.
Lamar in my opinion is going to struggle big time as a NFL quarterback.
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Rosen and Darnold are different quarterbacks when comparing the two. My thoughts are Darnold can do what Rosen does. Rosen can not do what Darnold does.
Love your post man but would you mind elaborating on this point a bit?
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Rosen will always look good throwing the ball. He has beautiful footwork. Front shoulder pointed, on balance, pure overhead delivery, quick release.
But his results are not better than Darnold. He just looks better.
He is a pocket passer who can move enough but he is not a threat outside the pocket. He throws with good anticipation and ball placement. He forces some throws. Trying to make things happen. And actually sometimes you have too. You need to make things happen and it doesn't always workout.
Darnold can play in the pocket. He can deliver the ball on time to the right guy. He can and does go to secondary targets. He can throw guys open with anticipation and good ball placement. He can do what Rosen can.
Where Darnold separates is extending plays. Making plays outside the pocket. Keeping eyes downfield. Making accurate throws on the move. Running effectively when needed. I don't see that ability in Rosen.
Durability and escapeability are not positives for Rosen.
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A lot is made about Darnold's fumbling. I wanted to try and put it into perspective in my own head, so I tried to look for how many fumbles the other top Qb's had - both fumbles and fumbles lost.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find those stats anywhere.
Can any of you stat guru's help me out?
It would be nice to compare Darnold's fumbles to Rosen's, Mayfield's, Allen's and Jackson's
Thanks
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Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Sam Darnold .. Chapter 3 ..
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