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Opinions change as one gets more information. However, I really don't know who made the call to draft Kessler and neither do you.
The real question is why is it important?
Is it because you want Sashi back?
Is it because you want Hue fired?
I love when you think you are being clever? It's very revealing.
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Legend
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It was divine intervention. You're just going to have to take my word on it.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Opinions change as one gets more information. However, I really don't know who made the call to draft Kessler and neither do you.
The real question is why is it important?
Is it because you want Sashi back?
Is it because you want Hue fired?
I love when you think you are being clever? It's very revealing.
You constantly clutter the board proclaiming how right you were on past opinions - and you provide no links that you so desperately demand from others. Those long-in-the-past opinions that no one really cares about and no one remembers...except, of course, for you. Most of us let it slide because it's just you being you. THEN, you get called on the carpet...with links to you own post...contradicting your very word...and you back pedal and proclaim that your accuser wants Sashi back? Ridiculous.
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What new information did you obtain as it relates to Kessler?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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As I said, Sashi was fired because of his overall body of work. He was part of the group that passed on several franchise-caliber QBs.
I'll say it another way.... If Sashi was fired solely because of his/the group's decision to draft Cody Kessler where they did, then the whole "but Sashi was the one who was fired" argument in this thread would hold some weight. Plus, if your argument hinges on who Haslam fires and when, it's probably not a great argument.
It's funny you bring up what a HC is expected to say. Hue hasn't shown much hesitation in throwing players under the bus. He did this several times last year (including his shiny new QB of the year, Kizer). Hue said the "Trust me" comment because he wanted Cody.
I'll end this post the same way I ended the other one, because it's important to the tone I'm trying to get across in my posts. I'm glad Hue is still here. I think he can be a good coach, despite what he's shown us the past 2 years. I'm glad Dorsey is now sitting where Sashi was before. Putting the Cody Kessler pick on Sashi because he's gone and Hue is still here is misleading/inaccurate.
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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If Hue is the one who blew the QB's picks, why was Sashi the one who was fired? The math just doesn't add up.
You're assuming Sashi was fired because he didn't get the Browns a quarterback. You're assuming Sashi lied when he said he was relying on Hue's expertise on quarterbacks. You're assuming Hue didn't want anything to do with the quarterbacks we've had the past 2 seasons. This is why your math doesn't add up. You're making assumptions.
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j/c YO PLYBACKHere .. this is what i’m talking about ... i read like 2 posts between Vers and Memp I believe .. Haven’t read any since ... if u do read them and theres anything new please let me know ..  .. Thanks .. 
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Mike Kaye
‏Verified account @mike_e_kaye
The conditional nature of the #Jaguars trade with the #Browns, per league source: Kessler has to be on the active 46-man roster for six games in order for Cleveland to receive a 2019 seventh-round pick from Jacksonville.
2:00 PM - 28 Mar 2018 Kessler Kessler is one of two QBs on the roster right now, so I think this has a pretty good shot at happening.
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I think we're both reaching the conclusions we want to reach but there's a caveat to it. Firstly I didn't say Hue didn't want anything to do with any of the QB's that were drafted. What I did say was the Hue supports our players. He talks positively about them. In general that's what coaches do.
Conversely you're saying that Hue is lying when he said he didn't really have any input into the QB decisions in the draft process. So that cuts both ways.
So what I'm actually trying to do is look at the evidence based on the results. We all saw the QB's that were drafted. We all saw the QB's we passed on and traded out of draft picks to select.
We saw who was fired and we saw the very first priority Haslam gave to Dorsey. "Get us our franchise QB". It's obvious that Haslam saw what the problem is. He saw what needed to be addressed. Unlike any of us Haslam had both men reporting to him and knows exactly who made the decision to select the QB's and who made the decision to pass on the QB's we passed on. Neither of us know that.
So why would Haslam keep the guy who made the wrong decisions about drafting a QB when he knew what the problem was? Why would he name priority #1 finding our franchise QB if he didn't see that as the biggest need?
To buy into your line of thinking, I would have to believe that the guy who failed in the QB decision making is the man he kept and the guy who held no responsibility for it is the guy he fired. See, in my world looking at what transpired means a lot more than dueling quotes.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It's pretty much the same Diam. To paraphrase..... The guy who has screwed up drafting a QB was retained while the guy who had no responsibility for it was fired. lol
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think we're both reaching the conclusions we want to reach but there's a caveat to it. Firstly I didn't say Hue didn't want anything to do with any of the QB's that were drafted. What I did say was the Hue supports our players. He talks positively about them. In general that's what coaches do.
Conversely you're saying that Hue is lying when he said he didn't really have any input into the QB decisions in the draft process. So that cuts both ways.
So what I'm actually trying to do is look at the evidence based on the results. We all saw the QB's that were drafted. We all saw the QB's we passed on and traded out of draft picks to select.
We saw who was fired and we saw the very first priority Haslam gave to Dorsey. "Get us our franchise QB". It's obvious that Haslam saw what the problem is. He saw what needed to be addressed. Unlike any of us Haslam had both men reporting to him and knows exactly who made the decision to select the QB's and who made the decision to pass on the QB's we passed on. Neither of us know that.
So why would Haslam keep the guy who made the wrong decisions about drafting a QB when he knew what the problem was? Why would he name priority #1 finding our franchise QB if he didn't see that as the biggest need?
To buy into your line of thinking, I would have to believe that the guy who failed in the QB decision making is the man he kept and the guy who held no responsibility for it is the guy he fired. See, in my world looking at what transpired means a lot more than dueling quotes. only need to apply some common sense.... not so hard...
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Ugh. Ok.
I never said Hue drafted the quarterbacks. But, he had a say and Sashi said he relied on Hue for the position. So I'm not saying Hue is lying in this instance...
There's an article in the Athletic (pay site) that hints that Hue wouldn't take this job without have a say in the QBs. I'm sure they all worked TOGETHER to bring a QB to Cleveland... thus Hue was apart of the decision to sign RG3, to draft Kessler, to draft Kizer, to cut Osweiler. I have reservations about Hue being involved and I still do.
And again, you're assuming firing Sashi was because he didn't get a quarterback. Why do you assume "Get us our franchise QB" as uttered by Haslam to Dorsey means that Hue was innocent in the whole process? I believe the botched McCarron deal proves Hue was involved.
You know, we are all going to have our opinions because like you said none of us really know. But I believe the evidence supports Hue being involved from day one. I also don't believe that him still being here proves his innocence. I guess you can assume that if you want, but the evidence just doesn't seem to support it.
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Ugh. Ok.
I never said Hue drafted the quarterbacks. But, he had a say and Sashi said he relied on Hue for the position. So I'm not saying Hue is lying in this instance...
There's an article in the Athletic (pay site) that hints that Hue wouldn't take this job without have a say in the QBs. I'm sure they all worked TOGETHER to bring a QB to Cleveland... thus Hue was apart of the decision to sign RG3, to draft Kessler, to draft Kizer, to cut Osweiler. I have reservations about Hue being involved and I still do.
And again, you're assuming firing Sashi was because he didn't get a quarterback. Why do you assume "Get us our franchise QB" as uttered by Haslam to Dorsey means that Hue was innocent in the whole process? I believe the botched McCarron deal proves Hue was involved.
You know, we are all going to have our opinions because like you said none of us really know. But I believe the evidence supports Hue being involved from day one. I also don't believe that him still being here proves his innocence. I guess you can assume that if you want, but the evidence just doesn't seem to support it.
The only thing I would be inclined to argue is the release of BO. That, imo, screams "Sashi alone in a room with a phone". I don't have any evidence, just my impression of the situation (it was around the time of the Haden release, and Jackson's body language said he wasn't happy with it).
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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The question actually becomes, did Dorsey take Hues input and use it? Did he go the route Hue wanted at the QB position?
See, both of these men reported to Haslam. Only Haslam knows which man wanted which QB's. Only Haslam knows which man was right or wrong about the QB position. I don't believe Haslam simply pulled a name out of the hat when he chose to fire Sashi.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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See... based on how Osweiler performed in preseason, I think Hue was on board with him leaving. I would think they had a conversation about him.
I agree, that on the surface Sashi didn't care about Osweiler. He was only excited about the 2nd round pick. Then Hue said let me take a look at him, we could use a starter. I think at some point Hue decided he was going to start Kizer...making Osweiler expendable.
In my mind, the first two years were used on the young guys to gain experience. Get the young players experience, see where you're at and fill in the gaps through free agency... I believe that's what we did, only with a different man at the top.
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The question actually becomes, did Dorsey take Hues input and use it? Did he go the route Hue wanted at the QB position?
See, both of these men reported to Haslam. Only Haslam knows which man wanted which QB's. Only Haslam knows which man was right or wrong about the QB position. I don't believe Haslam simply pulled a name out of the hat when he chose to fire Sashi. Dorsey? You mean Sashi I assume... We signed RG3 and passed on Wentz. Two things Hue wanted. Hue also said his #1 attribute for a QB is accuracy. Kessler was probably the most accurate QB and I'm sure Hue was on board thinking he could coach up the rest of his game while RG3 played and McCown backed him up... I often wonder how things might be different if neither RG3 or McCown were injured... one can wonder I guess.
Last edited by devicedawg; 03/29/18 04:09 PM. Reason: typo
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I don't know there Dawgs4Life. They seemed to have been pretty hot on him on draft day and like him. Hey if he doesn't make it on the field of play all the better. I'm sure he's good for the QB room and is accurate for practice! Maybe it will rub off on their starter 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Opinions change as one gets more information. However, I really don't know who made the call to draft Kessler and neither do you. FWIW Grossi puts the decision to draft Kessler squarely on Ken Kovash as a pure analytics move after Hue went all in on RGIII. He was talking about it today. This is from an article from a year ago: It’s generally though that Kessler was Jackson’s choice. And maybe he was. But ESPN Cleveland analyst Tony Grossi turned the spotlight on Ken Kovash’s role in Kessler’s selection. Kovash is another analytics guru, and the current vice president of player personnel. “I’ve heard he was Jackson’s choice. I’ve also heard he was the choice of Ken Kovash, the behind-the-curtain analytics expert who was elevated to vice president of player personnel in the front office reorganization. From the start, the New Browns Order pledged a ‘collaborative effort’ on all personnel decisions. One of the benefits of that is to deflect accountability when decisions are questioned.” Link I simply see the "Trust me" comment as another unfortunate remark made by Hue where his heart's in the right place but his mouth engaged before his head gained traction. He was being a good company man supporting the analytics department and their bungled decision to overdraft Kessler. At the time, he simply had no idea how wrong it could go.
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Opinions change as one gets more information. However, I really don't know who made the call to draft Kessler and neither do you.
The real question is why is it important?
Is it because you want Sashi back?
Is it because you want Hue fired?
I love when you think you are being clever? It's very revealing.
You constantly clutter the board proclaiming how right you were on past opinions - and you provide no links that you so desperately demand from others. Those long-in-the-past opinions that no one really cares about and no one remembers...except, of course, for you. Most of us let it slide because it's just you being you. THEN, you get called on the carpet...with links to you own post...contradicting your very word...and you back pedal and proclaim that your accuser wants Sashi back? Ridiculous. So, speaking of cluttering the board........Memphis dug deep to find those comments. The question is why? My guess was to make me look bad. Alright........this is a question for the refs. Would I be suspended for "cluttering the board" if I used the same tactics that Memphis just did and that cfrs has in the past? I mean..........I don't think it's a cool thing to do and I am not enough of a certain kind of person to care about such crap, but man, this could be a lot of fun and very revealing. Y'all wanna play the game of who said what? Let's play! Refs, is it okay if I reciprocate or only certain posters allowed to clutter the board w/such BS? I really don't want to go there, but instead........I'll ask again. Why is it so important to assign blame to Sashi or Hue? Will it make Sashi come back? Will it cause Hue to be fired? What the hell is the motivation of that crowd?
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 03/29/18 07:18 PM.
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All Pro
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Good luck to him as he is getting ready for another team. As he seems nothing but class on and off the field.
May Day, May the 4th Be With You, Memorial Day, and Mother's Day 2026!
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Some QB's work out.. Most don't.
Cody didn't. And the search continues.
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Refs, is it okay if I reciprocate or only certain posters allowed to clutter the board w/such BS?
You may reciprocate.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Thanks. I just made a post in the Fan Feedback forum. I want to make sure I have permission before I start bringing these "old" posts up. I don't want to get suspended for "cluttering" the board while Memphis continues to post for doing the same damn thing.
Btw................I really don't want to do this, but if people want to war, I will war.
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Refs, is it okay if I reciprocate or only certain posters allowed to clutter the board w/such BS?
You may reciprocate. With caution considered.
#GMSTRONG
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Are you both refs? I get the feeling you are.
I want to hear it from a ref?
And again.........why does a post from two years ago before new info becomes available carry so much weight?
Look...........I have no idea if Sashi or Hue made the damn pick. I can express my opinion, but it's just that. An opinion. Just as it is w/every other poster on here.
Memphis edited the post on where I called him out on. He said Hue was using the media to make Sashi look bad. He deleted that part and then unclicked the "edit" button. It's deceiving as can be.
And I still want to get back to this point.................who cares whose fault it was? Sashi is gone. He isn't coming back. Hue is here. That is the only reason I can see for harping on such things......dudes want him fired.
And you know what......if you are fan that hopes the team fails so a guy will be fired..........well........figure it out for yourselves.
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