DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Lamar Jackson part three

Razor said

"Durability is always going to be an important factor in teams choosing a franchise QB. Running QBs tend to have a hard time making it in the NFL or having a long and healthy career."


But the same can be said for ALL QBs, ad while Lamar definitely has the ability to run, he is not a running QB. Obviously his passing numbers back that up

Over 4000 yards rushing and 50 rushing TDs in 3 years of college beg to differ.

This isn't College ... Just sayin'

what about his 9000 passing yards and 69 passing TD's?

lolololol.

will FL and pit like that post? probably not.

passing #'s for career (best to worst):

Baker mayfield:

14,607 yards, 9.8 per pass, 131 TD's, 30 int

Lamar jackson:

9043 yards, 8.3 per pass, 69 TD's, 27 int

Josh Rosen:

9340 yards, 8.0 per pass, 59 TD's, 26 int

Sam Darnold:

7229 yards, 8.5 per pass, 57 TD's, 22 int

Josh Allen:

5066 yards, 7.8 per pass, 44 TD's, 21 int

Added games played to give some context to the stats.

Beg to differ from what? I said he obviously has the ability to tun, but his passing numbers show he has the ability to throw the ball too.

Well - what other "passing" QBs average 1000 yards a year on the ground.

Not saying it is bad or good but is sure seems to me based on those numbers that he runs (designed runs) much more than any of the other top QBs in this draft. As such, I would label him a running QB who can also throw - how's that.

How is he a running QB who can throw, when he has thrown for more yards than many of the " passing" QBs.

I think the more fair thing to say is he is a passing QB who can run and the rest are passing QBs who CANT run

Also in his last year there was a concerted effort to stay away from the designed runs a bit more and keep him in the pocket, ad he showed he can be quite sucessful doing that

It doesn't change the fact that he averages rushing for 1000 yards per season. Which is what the point was when someone says he isn't a rushing QB.

Like I saying in the other thread. Some people can't see past his ability to run.

What’s a running QB?

I asked that in the other thread and you didn’t respond, like others who didn’t.

When ppl use the term running QB, it implies that they aren’t good at anything else.

Is Aaron Rodgers a running QB? He’s ran more than Mariota, who dawg duty said is a running QB.

Tell me how a QB who runs for 1000 yards per year on average for four seasons isn't a rushing QB. Then I'll play. Name NFL QB's who average rushing for 1000 yards per season for at least four years.

And I don't plan to move the goal posts here. The discussion about QB's rushing the football has nothing to do with passing. They are separate things. It implies nothing when you discuss how much your QB runs with the ball.

Sounds a duel threat when combined with his passing numbers.

We’re talking about everything here.

Name another QB? What does that even mean? So because he’s the only one to ever pull those numbers means he’s a running QB?

I’d understand if that’s ALL he had. But it’s not even close to being the case.

Just because a dynamic QB doesn’t means he’s a running QB, because again, saying he’s a running QB implied that’s all he’s good at when it comes to football discussions.

Rodgers has run approximately 500 times in 10 years with almost 5000 passing attempts during that time. Jackson ran over 600 times and had just over 1000 passing attempts in 3 years. So, Aaron runs the ball appoximately 9% of the time (mostly scrambles, I would presume). Lamar runs approximately 38% of the time.

How many of Lamar’s runs were design runs compared to scrambles?

Again, nobody wants to actually define what a running QB is.

I’m still waiting.

Agreed - dual threat would be a better term.

It's been defined. A QB who runs for 1000 yards a year is most certainly a running QB. As Hammer posted, a QB who runs 38% of the time is a running QB.

So if you’re calling Lamar a running qb, are you blatantly admitting that you don’t care about the fact that he had better passing numbers over everyone but mayfield?

How does a running QB having better passing games than pocket QBs?

Once again, what does his passing have to do with how much he runs the ball? It doesn't.

In the context of what defines a running QB, it absolutely does.

A running QB is not that same as a QB who can run.

Is Russell Wilson a running qb, or a qb with the ability to run.

He’s a dual threat. Lamar is a dual threat.

Whoa - better passing numbers than Darnold and Rosen - don't think so. Allen maybe, but not Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, or Rudolph.

Of QBs in the top 5, yes. I literally posted the numbers. And look at this past season.

I’m a Rudolph fan btw (thx to Razor) but the draft gurus don’t have him in the top 5.

Oh yea side note: Rudolph over Allen.

Well I would say RG3 WAS a running QB too.

Yep it's that time of year, where people push the lower QB's up the Chart and knock the top ones down ...

RG3 is a dual threat.

The only QB that came into the league that could be considered a straight up running QB was Vick.

And that was with the falcons. He ended being a true dual threat with the eagles.

Just out of curiosity , is there anyone on the Board who thinks Lamar is going to end up on the Browns roster ???

A running QB is a loser like Otto Graham. A passing quarterback is a winner from Oklahoma like Brandon Weeded.

Nope. Very few if any actually think he even ranks in the top 3 QB's in this draft class.

I'm not even sure those arguing his case do.

Vick actually ran 40% of the time in his 2 years at VA Tech.

Also, your stats posted above are misleading because you do not factor in games played. Clearly Jackson played more games and it stands to reason that Darnold 11 games less) and Rosen (7 games less) would have better total passing numbers than Jackson if they played the same number of games.

I can't speak for everyone but I would guess more than 90% would hope not including me ...

It’s not misleading at all, which is why I also specifically stated to look at their last year stats.

And do you want to know s big reason why Rosen has less games played?

Injury. Lamar didn’t miss a game.

Fixed it for you. Plus Mason completed 65% of his passes his senior year even though he threw twice as many deep balls as anyone else. I mean if your going to ignore Mason's production then there is no reason not to ignore any player's production.

Lamar only had 59% completion percentage. The questions that will remain is can he produce that extra 50 rushing TDs and 4000 plus rushing yards and remain in one piece. I mean it's his running game that makes him special. He has an OK passing game but let's be honest it's his rushing ability that makes him special. Defenses love to put a hurting on rushing QBs in the NFL. Lamar doesn't have the biggest frame either so you have to worry if what makes him special will end his career early.

It's a big concern for teams drafting in the top 15. You might not think it's fair but it's a real concern that has a strong impact when it comes to risk assessment.

Sometimes I read posts and wonder if the poster is confusing Lamar Jackson with Baker Mayfield.

Yes, absolutely. Lamar certainly has better passing numbers in some categories compared to the other top QB prospects.

Once thing I look for is did their completion percentage go up each year and did they end at over 60%. So I think it's important to look at their career to see how they improve.

edit
btw was happy to read you have warmed up to Mason =)

I think Rosen will lose his spot as the #1 overall because he takes too many hits in the pocket that lead to injury even though everyone knows he is the best pure passer.

Even though Lamar didn't get hurt most teams won't care because they will look at his frame and wonder how he will avoid getting crushed if he tries to run as much in the NFL as he did in college.

The fact is that depending on which numbers you look at Lamar only ran the scrambled between 23% (from another poster based on Trent Dilfer) or 27% based on profootball focus. (I posted in the other Lamar thread and in the QB film thread).

The rest of Lamar's runs were called run/read-option.
Personally I think Louisville offense was suboptimal because Petrino didn't install Run-Pass Options into his offense.

No NFL offense calls anywhere near as many read-option plays as Louisville did.

I think if we're all honest we can admit that Lamar will not run as much in the NFL as he did in college for the reasons above.

Talking specifically about scrambles and not designed runs: From watching the games, it seemed like Allen was far more apt to bail form a pocket early as compared to Lamar. From my eye Darnold looks to scramble about as often as Lamar.
There is an argument to make about that the quality or lack in their respective OL pass protection was the reason for the scrambles.

We know thatyou believe NFL teams will be wary about Lamar's injury risk. Maybe your assumption on how team think is right and maybe its wrong.

I disagree that Lamar will be considered a higher injury risk then the other QBs nor do I believe that injury risk is based on size (Goff, Watson) or injury (Wentz,Watson) or style (Wentz, Pat Mahomes, Watson) play as big a factor for NFL teams as they do in your mind.