There’s a bit so just click on the link and read, unless of course you’re a trump supporters and need pictures.
I don’t understand how a billionaire complains about something being too expensive.
Not saying a sprinkler system would’ve prevented this death, but it says something that trump fought tooth and nail against this mandate that could’ve possibly saved his residents life.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I don’t understand how a billionaire complains about something being too expensive.
You're smart enough to know how somebody becomes a billionaire... making as much money as possible selling whatever it is they are selling. He was selling apartments.
The article says sprinkler system is about $4/sf, that might be a little low for NYC but it's probably not too far off (and I'm not sure what it would have cost back then, so let's just say it's close enough). Problem with this particular building is that it was already designed and permitted, meaning they were very close to starting construction. To add sprinklers would have been a tremendous re-design cost plus starting the entire permitting process over again which could have cost him a year or more.
You understand the time value of money, you understand that in this market the first one with apartments to sell has a great advantage... Plus, if he was nearing construction, he was probably pretty well into pre-sales, which means for everything he has under contract to date, he either has to eat all of this additional costs or go back to the purchasers and tell them he needs more money risking losing buyers...
All things considered, in this case I can understand why he fought it. In the end it got passed for all future buildings..
Does that cost offset the potential risk of lawsuits and other factors if something were to go wrong.
That’s the heart of the issue. As well as the fact that as much as we know that businesses are to make a profit, you would hope there’s some humanity still attached to it.
So I’m looking at it like this: not only is the sprinkler system there to hopefully save someone’s life, how much would that system save me money in potential property and punitive damages?
We talk about the cost of the sprinkler system.
Ok. How much is it going to cost in repairs now after the fire? What about lawsuits that are definitely coming?
If you’re operating under the assumption that your property isn’t gonna face serious damage structurally or otherwise, then do you really have any business owning and operating an apartment complex?
How many examples do we have in history of a company cutting corners, only to result in loss of life?
I can go on and on.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I don’t understand how a billionaire complains about something being too expensive.
You're smart enough to know how somebody becomes a billionaire... making as much money as possible selling whatever it is they are selling. He was selling apartments.
The article says sprinkler system is about $4/sf, that might be a little low for NYC but it's probably not too far off (and I'm not sure what it would have cost back then, so let's just say it's close enough). Problem with this particular building is that it was already designed and permitted, meaning they were very close to starting construction. To add sprinklers would have been a tremendous re-design cost plus starting the entire permitting process over again which could have cost him a year or more.
You understand the time value of money, you understand that in this market the first one with apartments to sell has a great advantage... Plus, if he was nearing construction, he was probably pretty well into pre-sales, which means for everything he has under contract to date, he either has to eat all of this additional costs or go back to the purchasers and tell them he needs more money risking losing buyers...
All things considered, in this case I can understand why he fought it. In the end it got passed for all future buildings..
Trump was sued for refusing to pay the illegal immigrants he hired to construct the building, and had to pay out a seven figure settlement.
He was also sued for refusing to pay the American contractors hired to build the interior furnishings, and had to pay out a seven figure settlement.
Going out on a limb, but construction costs never seemed like a pressing concern when it came to Trump Tower.
I don’t understand how a billionaire complains about something being too expensive.
You're smart enough to know how somebody becomes a billionaire... making as much money as possible selling whatever it is they are selling. He was selling apartments.
The article says sprinkler system is about $4/sf, that might be a little low for NYC but it's probably not too far off (and I'm not sure what it would have cost back then, so let's just say it's close enough). Problem with this particular building is that it was already designed and permitted, meaning they were very close to starting construction. To add sprinklers would have been a tremendous re-design cost plus starting the entire permitting process over again which could have cost him a year or more.
You understand the time value of money, you understand that in this market the first one with apartments to sell has a great advantage... Plus, if he was nearing construction, he was probably pretty well into pre-sales, which means for everything he has under contract to date, he either has to eat all of this additional costs or go back to the purchasers and tell them he needs more money risking losing buyers...
All things considered, in this case I can understand why he fought it. In the end it got passed for all future buildings..
What's the big deal... he could have had it done and then stiffed the contractor like he is so well known for doing...
Does that cost offset the potential risk of lawsuits and other factors if something were to go wrong.
That’s the heart of the issue. As well as the fact that as much as we know that businesses are to make a profit, you would hope there’s some humanity still attached to it.
Yes. There are dozens of over-and-above things we could do to residential and commercial buildings to make them safer and we generally don't do them.. why? Because it's not required and it's expensive.
State buildings, general office buildings, elementary school buildings, etc are all built generally with what is called Light Hazard Sprinkler systems.. this is the minimal coverage... there is a High Hazard Sprinkler system that uses larger pipe, carries more water, wider disbursement, etc.. it's less than $1/sf more expensive but it would be safer. Know why nobody uses it except in specific applications? Because they don't have to.
The first sprinkler system was invented in the 1800s.. but didn't become common (or required) until almost a century later... why? They were expensive and not required.
Trump building, as far as I know, was built to the prevailing code that was in place at the time... so I don't see why he would be subject to a greater threat of lawsuits than any other building that caught on fire.
Property damage is insured. I'm sure he might have gotten better insurance rates with a sprinkler system.. I don't know what the difference is, not much on that end of the business.
Quote:
If you’re operating under the assumption that your property isn’t gonna face serious damage structurally or otherwise, then do you really have any business owning and operating an apartment complex?
How many examples do we have in history of a company cutting corners, only to result in loss of life?
Many, that's why they are constantly changing the code... but all an apartment owner or any owner is required to do is comply with whatever the code says at the time.. we are already 10 years ahead of that in what we COULD do but it takes a while to get things put into the code...
Quote:
As well as the fact that as much as we know that businesses are to make a profit, you would hope there’s some humanity still attached to it.
Let me go back to this for a second.. you have a BMW right? One that you frequently brag how fast it will go.. how fast have you had it? 120? 140? I'm sure it will go that fast. Do you think BMW made that and made it street legal because they give a crap about your humanity? Sure, they comply with all of the code requirements like air bags, ABS, they probably even go above and beyond in some respects for safety... but they build it that way to make a profit because people will pay $70k for it but they would NEVER pay that for a car built like a tank that gets 50/mpg but won't go over 70 mph... THAT would be caring about your humanity.
You’re comparing a personal purchase to operating an apartment complex.
Excuse me if we won’t be seeing eye to eye on this.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I don’t understand how a billionaire complains about something being too expensive.
You're smart enough to know how somebody becomes a billionaire... making as much money as possible selling whatever it is they are selling. He was selling apartments.
The article says sprinkler system is about $4/sf, that might be a little low for NYC but it's probably not too far off (and I'm not sure what it would have cost back then, so let's just say it's close enough). Problem with this particular building is that it was already designed and permitted, meaning they were very close to starting construction. To add sprinklers would have been a tremendous re-design cost plus starting the entire permitting process over again which could have cost him a year or more.
You understand the time value of money, you understand that in this market the first one with apartments to sell has a great advantage... Plus, if he was nearing construction, he was probably pretty well into pre-sales, which means for everything he has under contract to date, he either has to eat all of this additional costs or go back to the purchasers and tell them he needs more money risking losing buyers...
All things considered, in this case I can understand why he fought it. In the end it got passed for all future buildings..
That's being pennywise and pound foolish. Typical Trump, over promise then under deliver..
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/09/1808:56 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
J/C whataboutisms....Many U.S. civilians have a AR-15 right? One that they frequently brag how much fire power it has. How many rounds per minute can it fire? 200? 400? I'm sure it will fire very quickly. Do you think Colt made that and made it legal to civilians because they give a crap about your humanity? Sure, they comply with all of the code requirements like safety switches, & trigger locks, not fully automatic, they probably even go above and beyond in some respects for safety... but they build it that way to make a profit because civilians will buy them.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
J/C whataboutisms....Many U.S. civilians have a AR-15 right? One that they frequently brag how much fire power it has. How many rounds per minute can it fire? 200? 400? I'm sure it will fire very quickly. Do you think Colt made that and made it legal to civilians because they give a crap about your humanity? Sure, they comply with all of the code requirements like safety switches, & trigger locks, not fully automatic, they probably even go above and beyond in some respects for safety... but they build it that way to make a profit because civilians will buy them.
None of what you posted changes how things actually work. He opposed mandating sprinkler systems in the entire city of New York. That would mean every builder would fall under the exact same cost increase.
We both know those increases are passed on to the consumer which means in the end, it costs the builder nothing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
J/C whataboutisms....Many U.S. civilians have a AR-15 right? One that they frequently brag how much fire power it has. How many rounds per minute can it fire? 200? 400? I'm sure it will fire very quickly. Do you think Colt made that and made it legal to civilians because they give a crap about your humanity? Sure, they comply with all of the code requirements like safety switches, & trigger locks, not fully automatic, they probably even go above and beyond in some respects for safety... but they build it that way to make a profit because civilians will buy them.
Only if you put it in full semi automatic!
What's so funny?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
J/C whataboutisms....Many U.S. civilians have a AR-15 right? One that they frequently brag how much fire power it has. How many rounds per minute can it fire? 200? 400? I'm sure it will fire very quickly. Do you think Colt made that and made it legal to civilians because they give a crap about your humanity? Sure, they comply with all of the code requirements like safety switches, & trigger locks, not fully automatic, they probably even go above and beyond in some respects for safety... but they build it that way to make a profit because civilians will buy them.
Only if you put it in full semi automatic!
What's so funny?
He thinks he is smarter than you because he understands the difference between semi automatic where a shot is fired each time the trigger is squeezed vs. Full auto that will fire burst as long as the trigger is squeezed. So he attempted word play with "full semi automatic", then laughing at those he thinks don't get the simplicity of guns.
Truth is he is probably the guy that gets in his automatic ford Taurus and pretends to shift with a stick while making vroom vroom noises... Same mentality.
J/C whataboutisms....Many U.S. civilians have a AR-15 right? One that they frequently brag how much fire power it has. How many rounds per minute can it fire? 200? 400? I'm sure it will fire very quickly. Do you think Colt made that and made it legal to civilians because they give a crap about your humanity? Sure, they comply with all of the code requirements like safety switches, & trigger locks, not fully automatic, they probably even go above and beyond in some respects for safety... but they build it that way to make a profit because civilians will buy them.
Only if you put it in full semi automatic!
What's so funny?
He thinks he is smarter than you because he understands the difference between semi automatic where a shot is fired each time the trigger is squeezed vs. Full auto that will fire burst as long as the trigger is squeezed. So he attempted word play with "full semi automatic", then laughing at those he thinks don't get the simplicity of guns.
Truth is he is probably the guy that gets in his automatic ford Taurus and pretends to shift with a stick while making vroom vroom noises... Same mentality.
Actually, I believe it was in regards to this video I believe.
even though there's an actual physical system that could've possibly prevented this, thoughts and prayers are more effective.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
even though there's an actual physical system that could've possibly prevented this, thoughts and prayers are more effective.
To bad their was nothing that could have been done for Kate Stienle ... Jamal Shaw Jr or any of the other of thousands of DEAD AMERICANS at the hands of ILLEGALS ....
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
None of what you posted changes how things actually work. He opposed mandating sprinkler systems in the entire city of New York. That would mean every builder would fall under the exact same cost increase.
We both know those increases are passed on to the consumer which means in the end, it costs the builder nothing.
You clearly didn't read my post, doesn't surprise me.. with so many on here, trying to put logic in a Trump post, that stops short of calling him the living satan, is like trying to squeeze a basketball through a garden hose, they won't hear it, they won't listen to it, they just plug their ears and scream "NAAAAAH! NAAAAAAH! NAAAAAAH!"
You’re comparing a personal purchase to operating an apartment complex.
Excuse me if we won’t be seeing eye to eye on this.
I don't expect to see eye to eye with anybody on the left with much of anything that has to do with Trump. Because, while I find him a pretty repulsive human being in most regards, actually thinking beyond the blind hatred means we will often disagree.
And I'm comparing a personal purchase of a vehicle vs a personal purchase of a place to live.. you do understand these apartments are sold and not rented right? Do you also understand that the apartments in this building sell for anywhere between $1.8 million and $8 million right? This guys apartment was valued at about $2.5 million. These are not poor people, they have options as to where they live.. they chose to purchase an apartment in a building that was built before sprinklers were required.
If it comes out that the Trump company that owns and manages the building has done ANYTHING illegal or even unethical, then I will address it... objectively. As of now, the fact that he didn't put systems in that are above code doesn't make him evil, it makes him about the same as every other property owner (public or private) in the country.
You are correct. He didn't do anything wrong or illegal. I'm still confused as to why he objected to new buildings being required to install sprinkler systems when the issue came before the city because of what I said in my earlier post.
But I think you got a little carried away with your earlier rant. I never said anything about him being evil or implied anything in my post above.
They have medication for that Bud. lol
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I'm still confused as to why he objected to new buildings being required to install sprinkler systems when the issue came before the city because of what I said in my earlier post.
And as I stated in my previous post, his building had already been designed and permitted.. so I can understand not wanting to go through redesign and re-permitting.
I also did not see an article that explained exactly what he was fighting against. I'm not being sarcastic but if you have one, let me know. Was he fighting to NEVER have to put sprinklers in high rise residential? If that's the case, then he was wrong. If he was fighting against retrofitting them into all existing buildings, then I can understand that because that is a LOT more than $4/sf. Typically most regulations get passed and don't have to be implemented until there is some kind of major renovation. That's the way ADA is, you didn't have to go through and change all of your bathrooms, but if you renovated one, it had to go back as ADA compliant.
Sprinklers are a good idea, they should be installed in all buildings, Trump is an ass.... but at least we agree he didn't do anything illegal (yet).
I have heard today a story that there were "no working smoke detectors" in the unit. That could be a couple things... most large buildings have hardwired smoke detectors with a battery back-up. Some older buildings, especially homes, just have battery smoke detectors. So I will have to wait and see the results of this because if the smoke detectors weren't working, it could be Trump Tower's fault, it could be the homeowners fault.. just have to wait and see. If it's Trump Tower's fault, they will pay dearly.. as they should.
I would think since the apartments are bought and not rented, it would be the responsibility of the owner. But like you, I'm not sure what the laws are in New York.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I would think since the apartments are bought and not rented, it would be the responsibility of the owner. But like you, I'm not sure what the laws are in New York.
Yea but the power would come from the primary building power and the smoke detector would be connected back to a main building fire alarm control panel.. I'm sure NYC has dealt with this before as to where the apartment owners responsibility ends and the building owners responsibility begins.... But I haven't heard much about it since I first heard it a few days ago.
