Again, while it’s disgusting he was even involved in that, as I stated, paying her off isn’t a crime.
Where the crime lies is where the money came from.
So his lawyer is the one who paid the money...supposedly anyway. Well, where did the money come from? If it came from either him or trump directly, then other than being tabloid embarrassing, it’s not illegal.
But did he use campaign money to pay her off? Remember, Cohen is the deputy finance officer for the RNC. If he used money from there to pay hush money to ANYBODY, that’s campaign violations and possibly other charges.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
This isn’t directed toward anybody in particular, but I’ve learned that with conservatives I need to post from *some* conservative sources for any of them to even consider my points.
So here:
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
If Cohen paid $130k to Stormy Daniels to help Trump win the white house, that is well above the $2700 contribution limit. It doesnt matter that he didn't pay direct to Trump, as it would be considered an in kind contribution. Key to this case would be proving intent.
They seized computers, documents, financial docs and Cohen's phone looking for bank fraud, wire fraud and election finance improprieties along with other items.in Trumps reply tonight, it's absolutely amazing how stupid he is
Feds Raid Office of Trump Lawyer Who Paid Off Stormy Daniels. This Is a Big Deal. The search of Michael Cohen's office, explained. Ken White | April 9, 2018
MEGA/Newscom MEGA/Newscom The very big news of the day: FBI agents raided the law office of Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump's lawyer who was involved in payment of $130,000 to adult performer "Stormy Daniels" for a nondisclosure agreement. Some reports suggest they also raided his home.
Recently I've been listening to the podcast Slow Burn, about Watergate. There's a fascinating theme throughout it: When you're living a historical event, how do you know? How can you tell when a development is a big deal?
This is a big deal. It's very early on, but here's some things we can already tell.
1. According to Cohen's own lawyer, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York (widely regarded within itself as being the most important and prestigious U.S. Attorney's Office in the country) secured the search warrants for the FBI, based on a referral from Robert Mueller's office. Assuming this report is correct, that means that a very mainstream U.S. Attorney's Office—not just Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office—thought that there was enough for a search warrant here.
2. Moreover, it's not just that the office thought that there was enough for a search warrant. They thought there was enough for a search warrant of an attorney's office for that attorney's client communications. That's a very fraught and extraordinary move that requires multiple levels of authorization within the Department of Justice. The U.S. Attorney's Manual (USAM)—at Section 9-13.320—contains the relevant policies and procedures. The highlights:
The feds are only supposed to raid a law firm if less intrusive measures won't work. As the USAM puts it:
In order to avoid impinging on valid attorney-client relationships, prosecutors are expected to take the least intrusive approach consistent with vigorous and effective law enforcement when evidence is sought from an attorney actively engaged in the practice of law. Consideration should be given to obtaining information from other sources or through the use of a subpoena, unless such efforts could compromise the criminal investigation or prosecution, or could result in the obstruction or destruction of evidence, or would otherwise be ineffective.
Such a search requires high-level approval. The USAM requires such a search warrant to be approved by the U.S. attorney—the head of the office, a presidential appointee—and requires "consultation" with the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. This is not a couple of rogue AUSAs sneaking in a warrant.
Such a search requires an elaborate review process. The basic rule is that the government may not deliberately seize, or review, attorney-client communications. The USAM—and relevant caselaw—therefore require the feds to set up a review process. That process might involve a judge reviewing the materials to separate out what is privileged (or what might fall within an exception to the privilege), or else set up a "dirty team" that does the review but is insulated from the "clean team" running the investigation. Another option is a "special master," an experienced and qualified third-party attorney to do the review. Sometimes the reviewing team will only be identifying and protecting privileged material. Sometimes the reviewing team will be preparing to seek, or to implement, a court ruling that the documents are not privileged. (Robert Mueller is aggressive on this sort of thing; he already sought and obtained a court ruling that some of Paul Manafort's communications with his lawyers were not privileged because they were undertaken for the purpose of fraud—the so-called "crime-fraud exception" to the attorney-client privilege.)
3. A magistrate judge signed off on this. Federal magistrate judges (appointed by local district judges, not by the president) review search warrant applications. A magistrate judge therefore reviewed this application and found probable cause—that is, probable cause to believe that the subject premises (Cohen's office) contains specified evidence of a specified federal crime. Now, magistrate judges sometimes are a little too rubber-stampy for my taste (notably, recall the time that a magistrate judge signed off on a truly ludicrous gag order forbidding Reason from revealing that it had been served with a subpoena for information identifying commenters). But here, where the magistrate judge knew that this would become one of the most scrutinized search warrant applications ever, and because the nature of the warrant of an attorney's office is unusual, you can expect that the magistrate judge felt pretty confident that there was enough there.
4. The search warrant application (the lengthy narrative from the FBI agent setting for the evidence) is almost certainly still under seal, and even Michael Cohen doesn't get to see it (yet). But the FBI would have left the warrant itself—and that shows (1) the federal criminal statutes they were investigating, and (2) the list of items they wanted to seize. Much can be learned for those. Assuming Michael Cohen doesn't release it, watch for it to be leaked.
Again: This is a big deal.
It's early times. Watch for the search warrant itself—that will show us what crimes they are investigating and what documents they think are probative of that crime. Watch also for what Michael Cohen's lawyers do in the struggle to compel arbitration with Stormy Daniels in a federal court in Los Angeles—the search warrant dramatically complicates whether Cohen can, or should, submit to any questions in that case. Be skeptical of the surge of misinformation and inaccurate legal takes that are certain to drop. But watch. This is historic.
(A version of this story originally appeared at the Popehat blog)
But do enjoy yourselves, you will eventually bring down the President of the United States of America.
Don't put this on me. Don't you freakking DARE try to put this on me. I am doing no such thing.
I am neither enjoying this, nor am I taking some active role in the life trajectory of this latter-day PT Barnum.
I'm just some schmuck on a message board reporting/opining the news with his peers. I'm not making this happen in any sort of way.
This isn't happening because I'm somehow willing it to be. This isn't happening because some nefarious 'Obama-loyal deep state cabal' is working to undermine a sitting president.
No, this is happening because the law of our land never takes a day off... and my POTUS carries a stink around him that has The Law's bloodhounds sniffing everywhere.
This is happening because of who he is. This is happening because of how he is. This is happening because of what he is. This is happening because of [all of the above] AND where he now finds himself.
(ooopsy.)
He should have kept his sketchy, rule-skirtin' semi-legal azz in the private f#ng sector, where stuff like this has a chance of slipping beneath the radar.
Feds don't play. Feds be for real. All the time. No days off. At Mar-A-Lago or anywhere else.
No, 40- Clemdawg isn't doing this to your POTUS. Neither is Swish, Pit, Gage, Portland, PDX, PDF, Rocket, OldCold, Spiral, or [insert random sensible Browns Fan's name here].
Swish... can yyou u explain what the big deal is with paying off a former porn star to not talk?
Collusion with the Russians I get and is a huge deal.... but I don't get the big deal of paying off a porn star to cover up an affair...what am I missing?
Paying hush money is small potatoes compared to what they might find in this discovery. Was reported on msnbc that this thing has been going on behind the scenes for at minimum weeks, possibly a few months.
Main Justice would have to ok this. THe Judge who issued the warrant would have to be thoroughly convinced there was enough evidence of a crime and enough to believe other less invasive measures were not an option.
And basically as of the time they served the warrants, Cohen can not represent Trump in any capacity. This will be the case for the foreseeable future.
A third party legal group will go through the evidence gathered, remove anything not relevant to the underlying investigation, remove everything that might be covered by atty/client privilege, and all that remains goes to the prosecution for discovery. Speculation says that not much will be privileged and a lot will be relevant.
This is very bad for Cohen. Trump, the Russians, Manafort, money laundering, bank fraud, wire fraud... that's a hole lot of relevant discovery and it might lead to much more.
I wonder if Manafort cracked and has cut a deal that we don't know about yet. He worked with Cohen and Trump. This might be about much more than Stormy Daniels.
I got a couple attorney friends getting phone calls today ... one will be honest and admit they have thier warts ... one however ... will be interesting to see witch way she decides to squirm her way out of it ...
Drip....Drip...Drip.....LOL A Treasure trove of payouts and bribes just before the election no doubt. Not to mention the tax returns.
If Mr. Twitter had half a brain he'd immediately ban all military style assault weapons and institute a federal gun registry, call for a single payer healthcare program for all legal citizens and shut down his twitter account. His reality show ratings would jump 20 points. It's all about the ratings right?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I've always thought that Cohen would be the guy that has all the hidden secrets. I honestly never thought they'd find a way to crack attorney-client privacy
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I've always thought that Cohen would be the guy that has all the hidden secrets. I honestly never thought they'd find a way to crack attorney-client privacy
which is why this is such a big deal. i've been watching a ton of different legal analyst from a bunch of news sources, and the common theme is this:
its VERY hard to get a judge to sign off on a warrant like this, which means that the investigation teams brought a very solid case, with evidence, to convince a judge and US attorney that they needed a warrant to search cohen.
For this to be a witch hunt, they sure are finding actual witches.
for this to be a nothing burger, it sure looks like a double bacon nothing burger.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The news that the FBI raided the offices of President Trump's personal attorney Michael Cohen Monday caused many people to wonder how such a raid could be justified given the protections afforded under attorney-client privilege.
"If by raiding the office of @realDonaldTrump's attorney, the @fbi violated Trump's attorney-client privilege, this is about to get really ugly," tweeted conservative Fox News host Laura Ingraham.
Right-wing commentator Kurt Schlichter said "federal agents are stealing and reading communications between an attorney and his client" and radio host Buck Sexton said, "Attorney client privilege is apparently meaningless in this era of get Trump at all costs."
But former U.S. attorney and deputy assistant attorney general Harry Litman said the way the FBI handled the raid actually showed the seriousness with which the Department of Justice treats material that might be protected by attorney-client privilege.
"It’s very unusual for the Department of Justice to permit prosecutors to raid an attorney’s office and that’s because you want to be careful not to get privileged material," said Litman, who teaches at the UCLA School of Law and continues to practice at the law firm Constantine Cannon.
STORY FROM NATURE'S WAY Your body flushes out unwanted materials; here’s how you can help In order to get the OK to raid Cohen's office, prosecutors would have had to get approval from high up — in this case from Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein — and demonstrate to a federal magistrate both probable cause and the need for a warrant instead of a subpoena (such as a concern that Cohen might destroy evidence), Litman explained.
In addition, the probable cause would have to relate to a crime centered on Cohen, not Trump or someone else. "You can’t use it as end run around to get to the client," Litman explained.
There will also be a "taint team" to examine everything before it is handed over to prosecutors to make sure that those conducting the case never see any material that might be "tainted" by attorney-client privilege.
The only way the prosecution would be permitted to examine any material that might otherwise fall under the attorney-client umbrella is if it is determined to be part of a crime jointly undertaken by the attorney and the client. But for the privilege to be nullified, Litman said the taint team would have to get the approval of the court to present the material to the prosecution.
In order to fall under attorney-client protection, the documents just have to be related to Cohen dispensing legal advice or gathering information in order to give that advice, Litman said. But merely having an attorney involved does not guarantee the protection.
"It can’t just be that somebody with the bar degree is in the general vicinity," Litman said.
Based on his experience with cases involving issues of attorney-client privilege, Litman said is likely that the prosecution never sees 80% or more of the documents.
Another reason raids on attorney's offices are rare is that they can easily come back to haunt the prosecution.
"If you go to the attorney’s office and you look at attorney-client privileged material by mistake, you’re in a world of hurt," Litman said. "You’re going to get disqualified from the whole matter and the whole prosecution could go down the tubes."
And if the potentially privileged material is challenged, the burden of proof is on the prosecutors to show that they made "zero use of privileged material" and their investigation was not in any way influenced by it.
"Then, if you lose that fight, it's quite possible that anybody who's seen that document is off the case," Litman said. "So, you’re playing with fire."
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I got a couple attorney friends getting phone calls today ... one will be honest and admit they have thier warts ... one however ... will be interesting to see witch way she decides to squirm her way out of it ...
Exactly. And for the people who support the Left and support the Resistance, and support the Democrats in Congress who have quit representing America out of hate, for them to say they have no hand in this attempt to bring down the President of the United States, is ludicrous.
I got a couple attorney friends getting phone calls today ... one will be honest and admit they have thier warts ... one however ... will be interesting to see witch way she decides to squirm her way out of it ...
Exactly. And for the people who support the Left and support the Resistance, and support the Democrats in Congress who have quit representing America out of hate, for them to say they have no hand in this attempt to bring down the President of the United States, is ludicrous.
Yes. If we all would have just shut up and let the corrupt pile of human refuse lead the country this wouldn’t be happening. I’ll take all the blame.
right, can't believe this dude is saying we should ignore all the crap Trump has been apart of.
but this is what happens when you're loyal to a man/party, and not the country itself.
40 is loyal to party and an individual.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I got a couple attorney friends getting phone calls today ... one will be honest and admit they have thier warts ... one however ... will be interesting to see witch way she decides to squirm her way out of it ...
Exactly. And for the people who support the Left and support the Resistance, and support the Democrats in Congress who have quit representing America out of hate, for them to say they have no hand in this attempt to bring down the President of the United States, is ludicrous.
Yes. If we all would have just shut up and let the corrupt pile of human refuse lead the country this wouldn’t be happening. I’ll take all the blame.
You will also take the blame when due to the constant attacks and false accusations he becomes distracted at a critical time and Americans die.
I imagine President Kennedy being so assaulted during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We may all be dead today.
Exactly. And for the people who support the Left and support the Resistance, and support the Democrats in Congress who have quit representing America out of hate, for them to say they have no hand in this attempt to bring down the President of the United States, is ludicrous.
Right.
40 just wants civil war in the USA, it's obvious. Exactly what Putin, Iran, and N Korea, is hoping for.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
i'm still trying to figure out how Trump managed to blame the dems yesterday on video.
FBI director Wray - republican Rosenstein - republican Mueller - republican berman - republican Sessions - republican Comey, the guy he fired - republican
yea, thats a lot of Dems there.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I got a couple attorney friends getting phone calls today ... one will be honest and admit they have thier warts ... one however ... will be interesting to see witch way she decides to squirm her way out of it ...
Exactly. And for the people who support the Left and support the Resistance, and support the Democrats in Congress who have quit representing America out of hate, for them to say they have no hand in this attempt to bring down the President of the United States, is ludicrous.
Yes. If we all would have just shut up and let the corrupt pile of human refuse lead the country this wouldn’t be happening. I’ll take all the blame.
You will also take the blame when due to the constant attacks and false accusations he becomes distracted at a critical time and Americans die.
I imagine President Kennedy being so assaulted during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We may all be dead today.
It’s hard to get distracted at the golf course. Head down, elbows straight, calm backswing...quiet please.
Whats wrong Swish ... u upset with your liberal pal Alan cause he isn’t a sheep and speaks the truth as opposed to follow the company line ....
Poor Swishie ... ...
upset at what? some dude on fox news?
lol, we got an actual raid being conducted, and your best defense is some dude on fox news. think about that.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
i'm still trying to figure out how Trump managed to blame the dems yesterday on video.
FBI director Wray - republican Rosenstein - republican Mueller - republican berman - republican Sessions - republican Comey, the guy he fired - republican
yea, thats a lot of Dems there.
He also pointed to the stock market as taking a tumble, really big, and huge loses because of his deplorable actions and the news fallout on this. When the dow jones opened at 24,037.52 and closed at 23,979.10. Dow Jones opened at 24,198.90 today
Last edited by PerfectSpiral; 04/10/1809:50 AM.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
I got a couple attorney friends getting phone calls today ... one will be honest and admit they have thier warts ... one however ... will be interesting to see witch way she decides to squirm her way out of it ...
Exactly. And for the people who support the Left and support the Resistance, and support the Democrats in Congress who have quit representing America out of hate, for them to say they have no hand in this attempt to bring down the President of the United States, is ludicrous.
Yes. If we all would have just shut up and let the corrupt pile of human refuse lead the country this wouldn’t be happening. I’ll take all the blame.
You will also take the blame when due to the constant attacks and false accusations he becomes distracted at a critical time and Americans die.
I imagine President Kennedy being so assaulted during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We may all be dead today.
The man is a walking talking breathing distraction. As for False accusations, name them. Wait, first go watch Fox News.. They'll tell you what they are LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I hope your ass ain’t to sore cause u sure seem to spend a lot of time pulling stuff out of it ...
Like facts? Serving you facts is like throwing holy water on a vampire. Of course you’re avoiding it.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I got a couple attorney friends getting phone calls today ... one will be honest and admit they have thier warts ... one however ... will be interesting to see witch way she decides to squirm her way out of it ...
Exactly. And for the people who support the Left and support the Resistance, and support the Democrats in Congress who have quit representing America out of hate, for them to say they have no hand in this attempt to bring down the President of the United States, is ludicrous.
Yes. If we all would have just shut up and let the corrupt pile of human refuse lead the country this wouldn’t be happening. I’ll take all the blame.
You will also take the blame when due to the constant attacks and false accusations he becomes distracted at a critical time and Americans die.
I imagine President Kennedy being so assaulted during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We may all be dead today.
As for False accusations, name them.
-Collusion -Obstruction of Justice -All the false accusations from the Dossier.
I got a couple attorney friends getting phone calls today ... one will be honest and admit they have thier warts ... one however ... will be interesting to see witch way she decides to squirm her way out of it ...
Exactly. And for the people who support the Left and support the Resistance, and support the Democrats in Congress who have quit representing America out of hate, for them to say they have no hand in this attempt to bring down the President of the United States, is ludicrous.
Yes. If we all would have just shut up and let the corrupt pile of human refuse lead the country this wouldn’t be happening. I’ll take all the blame.
You will also take the blame when due to the constant attacks and false accusations he becomes distracted at a critical time and Americans die.
I imagine President Kennedy being so assaulted during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We may all be dead today.
As for False accusations, name them.
-Collusion -Obstruction of Justice -All the false accusations from the Dossier.
How it all works in a democracy......It's a gov't investigation. It continues. Accusations are not false or true at this point. They're simply accusations until the investigations are over and proves otherwise.
Remember Robert Fiske Jr. & Ken Star? Their investigations lasted from 1994-1998
I'm betting another big hamma is about to fall on the WH soon. You better get used to it.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Donald Trump Specials NOT to be re-elected as president in 2020 4/9 To Serve Full 1st Term 1/2 To Leave Office Via Impeachment Or Resignation Before End 1st Term 7/4
for anybody who wants to know how the warrants got approved and how attorney-client privilege works.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
It's all about the ratings right?
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