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Those chart at least make me feel a "little" better about Josh Allen. Surprised that Josh Rosen scores so poorly in the Red Zone though.

His best receiving threat in college was Jordan Payton.
Take that for what it’s worth.

Jordan Payton was Josh Allen’s best receiver? You mean Josh Rosen? If it’s a vote for Josh Rosen not having much to throw to, who did Allen have to throw to?

Not arguing, Honestly don’t get your post.

Excl stated this...”Surprised that Josh Rosen scores so poorly in the Red Zone though.”

My reply was related to that. Rosen had Jordan as his ‘best’ receiver. Not much of a red zone threat.
I don’t know who Allen had to throw to but I can say with certainty that he was throwing against lesser defenses than Rosen either way.
I’d go so far as to guess that Rosen threw against more NFL DBs and LBs in single games than Allen threw against in an entire season.

U dont watch much pac 10 football do u .... ...

I know you're joking. But it's a legitimate question. I mean, Josh Allen played against inferior competition and didn't look like a superstar out there.


He never even was like 1st team MWAC. He was 2nd team in MWAC last year.

Look at other small school QBs. They all have awards. Tony Romo, Jimmy Garappollo, Carson Wentz, Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich, Ben Roethlisberger. They all have these big time awards.

Josh Allen doesn't have anything to his resume other than 2nd team MWAC.

I do watch Pac 10 football. They may not play a lot of D but they put a lot of defensive players in the NFL each year.
A little quick research. In 2017 Rosen faced USC who fielded Adoree Jackson, a first round draft choice CB for the Saints, and Leon McQuay, an undrafted CB picked up by the Rams. In that game he also faced Stevie Tu’ikolovatu, a DT chosen in the 6th round by the 49’rs.
One game, three NFL caliber defensive players. I didn’t even check to see if Stanford or Washington or any other team had more.
So now the question is, did Allen face at least three NFL caliber players last year? I honestly don’t know.

It was only a joke ... but ... ok ... i’ll play ...

If u want to ask those questions ... thats fair .. i get it and can see it ...

But then u open up ALL THESE QUESTIONS if you want to be fair ....

- how many nfl caliber players did Allen have on his team compared to Josh ...
- who were their coaches and what were their experiences ...
- were they behind or ahead a lot ...
- what kind of o did they run ...
- what kind of d did usc play against them ...

Not that it matters .. i get your point ... but Josh did not play against Adoree Jackson last year unless they scheduled the Titans by accident .. ...

There’s so many variables ... its one of the reasons why in football .... i’ll quote Mel Kiper here ... ...

STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ...

Sorry. I meant Rosen faced those guys in 2016. Jackson and the rest were 2017 draft picks. My honest mistake.
Look I’m not arguing necessarily. I will say I don’t want Allen at 1. In my mind Rosen is the better prospect.
All the coaching and everything of course is different. That can’t be argued. I was merely showing that my assumption of Rosen playing against more NFL talent was correct. Which it was. The rest I don’t care to argue. It’s a dead horse at this point.


FYI Jackson went to the Saints not the Titans.

Them damm dead horses are everywhere around here ... their littering up the place ... *LOL* ...

Its all we gots this time of year ... in a month we’ll have a few new horses ...

www.cfbstats.com does a good job breaking down situational and split stats


Rosen is also playing WITH a lot more NFL talent, if you’re gonna use the arguement Rosen is playing against better talent you can’t ignore the fact he’s playing with better talent too.

Ummmm, No - Jackson was drafted in the 1st round by the Tennessee Titans with the 18th pick.

My bad. Not sure why I got that in my head. Either way, my point stands that Rosen likely faced more NFL talent in one game than Allen faced in his season.

Yes Rosen did play with better talent than Allen. In two seasons Rosen’s only NFL level receiving threat, to my knowledge, was Jordan Payton... and we’ve seen his NFL play. So it’s not as though UCLA had a great NFL worthy offensive roster around him.
Who’d Wyoming play again?
Apples to apples Rosen has faced more NFL talent. Period. That was my only point.
Could Allen turn out to be the best QB in this class? Sure. So could Rosen, Darnold, or White or anyone else we’re not even thinking about. Another Cousins type guy that surprises everyone.

Just an fyi in case you are unfamiliar with PFF's metrics. They don't grade the outcome of the pass itself so the positively graded throws and adjusted completion percentages in the RZ factor in WR drops, QBs being hit while throwing, spikes, throw aways and batted balls.

One more note about UCLA receiving talent I meant to add but didn't want to post until I found the graphic:

I thought I already posted this^^

need a link, disregard

Spread QBs:





Later round spread QBs:

(sleeper late round QB/udfa)



Non-spread:

J/c

Baker Mayfield - QB - Player

An "NFC quarterbacks coach" told MMQB's Albert Breer Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield is "the most accurate signal-caller he’s ever evaluated coming out of college."

"He doesn’t miss throws," the coach continued. Mayfield has been knocked for his size (6-foot-1) and the offense he ran at Oklahoma, but he is exceptionally accurate and a natural playmaker. He seems destined to be a top-10 selection.

Source: MMQB Apr 5 - 10:23 AM

I dunno, if he's the most accurate. But Mayfield is definitely very accurate. The guy's a very good football player. Love to have him on the Browns.

He's only an inch and a half shorter than Mitch Trubisky. The guy can play

Your pretty good at this qb stuff bro ...

Non-Spread QB raw counting stats + 2017 PFF Adjusted comp%*+ espn QBR

QB...................YR..Yards...Atts....Pct........Y/A...TD..INT...PSR.....QBR
Josh Allen..........16...3203.....373....56........8.6...28...15.....145........74 (#26 NCAA)
Josh Allen..........17...1812.....270....56.3......6.7...16....6.....128........53 (#75 NCAA)
Career..........................................56.2
2017........................................PFF ACP 65.7

Lamar Jackson...15...1804.....247.....54.7.....7.4...12....8......128........72 (#27 NCAA)
Lamar Jackson...16...3543.....409.....56.2.....8.7...30....9......149........85 (#4 NCAA)
Lamar Jackson...17...3660.....430.....59.1.....8.5...27....10......147........85 (#4 NCAA)
Career...........................................57
2017.........................................PFF ACP 73.3

Josh Rosen........15...3670.....487.....60.......7.5...23....11......134........68 (#39 NCAA)
Josh Rosen........16...1915.....231.....58.3.....8.3...10.....5......139........58 (#67 NCAA)
Josh Rosen........17...3756.....452.....62.6.....8.3...26....10......147........66 (#45 NCAA)
Career...........................................60.9
2017........................................PFF ACP 74.6

Sam Darnold......16...3086....366.....67.2.....8.4...31.....9.......161........86 (#45 NCAA)
Sam Darnold......17...4143....480.....63.1.....8.6...26.....13......148........75 (#3 NCAA)
Career..........................................64.9
2017..........................................PFF ACP 71.3

*PFF Adjusted Completion Percentage factors in drops, spikes, throw-aways, batted balls and hit while throwing*

SI posted film analysis of Allen- changed protection package but didn't react to LB blitz, also locks on receivers/ no anticipation.....I'm jumping ship- USC all the way.....GO Browns!!!

Is this sorta what you're alluding to?

Josh Allen


I like to think this is why he's not going to be our #1 pick... If he is, we're in deep doo doo.

I'll put this here for anyone who is interested. I think some have already read this. I haven't finished and I didn't want to lose the link.

NDT Scouting

Great link. Ty.

I read the parts of this report that were posted on Twitters here and there.
Reading through the top guys now.

Plenty of convo worthy observations....but most are too locked onto 'their' guy and seem to post only towards that agenda.

I know a lot people have their favorites. I'm probably considered to be in this group you name, but I believe most of us are receptive to other possibilities.

I think it's when people get attacked and slammed for their opinions by certain posters that ruins it for everyone. Plus a lot of things are just fabricated as reasons for not liking a player. I've been told "thousands of short quarterbacks fail," "Mayfield is inaccurate because he throws to wide open spaces," and "Mayfield has an impulse disorder." None of these things are accurate.

I think when people see untruths such as these, they end up fighting harder for their own guy.

I might have posted this somewhere else but couldn't find it...

Another fun link...


qbase

For the record, I have said he lacks impulse control. YOU are the one who decided that comment equates to me claiming he has a psychological 'disorder.' I stand by my statement, he has repeatedly shown that he acts on impulse without thinking through the consequences. Maybe he grows up, maybe he doesn't. I still don't want that to be the face of the franchise.

That said, he is one of the top quarterbacks and the most accurate. I would grudgingly accept him.

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZjxsNEXkAA9Hv6?format=jpg[/img]

I'm kind of curious as to how those numbers compare to the NFL. I'm sure there is some disparity between the two levels, but I'm not sure it would necessarily be as great as one might expect.

When looking at teams vs. the Browns in particular, I imagine the "Beyond first read" share would be quite low (last year especially).