DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Rosen Pt. 2

It's really pretty simple Tab. I'm looking at a pattern of "what we know" that shows me he has poor impulse control. I listed things he actually did and you find that to be "shamelessly putting him down". Think about that for a second. lol

I look at his actions and see that there's a risk associated with that type of behavior. You wish to dismiss his actions as though they mean nothing. To each their own.

Then you turn around and try to predict that Rosen will leave the league in four or five years with zero evidence to support it. And I'm the one "shamelessly putting down" a QB prospect? Some people look at the actions of players to gauge the possible risk moving forward. Some refuse to do so.

and isn't that the biggest difference?

i didn't post the discussion of Rosen to knock him. i still think he's the #1 QB in this draft, just based on his mechanics.

but with Rosen, we're speculating about his mindset.

with mayfield, who i do like.....i mean there's hard evidence on mayfield. hell, we all not only saw the video, but his antics on the field as well.

so it's like nothing people say about mayfield and is behavior is made up. there's hard video to prove everything with him.

Rosen's biggest knock mentality is whether he's committed to the game or not. none of us will know that until all of a sudden, he's out of the league, OR making pro bowls left and right.

U don't get that consistent if u don't love the game. That's why I think the risen walking stuff is nonsense. Unless injury ends his career early, he is a 15 year guy.

Mayfield, is a bit immature, probably always will be. It's just his personality. Farve over 40 was still a big immature kid on the field and sidelines. Just a big kid playing a game.

All types play the game. Rosen is a Staughbach personality. Very smart and wants to be involved in a lot of things.

The thing is, you can simply make up accusations and throw them out there about anyone. So without pure speculation, which is exactly what these silly accusations about Rosen are, let's take a look at the reality of the situation. Either Rosen is going to shine or he's going to fail.

Why would someone who is a successful NFL QB, looking at a second contract worth close to 100 million dollars ( what top QB's will be getting paid four or five years from now ), walk away from the game? To actually believe there's any validity to such an accusation makes zero sense.

If the kid flames out, do you really believe we would want to sign him to a second contract anyway?

The kid doesn't jump up and down like his azz is on fire after every first down throw. Some act like that's a weakness. I don't think we need a cheerleader, we need a QB.

People are looking for something to latch onto in order to try to knock who even yourself say is the best QB in the draft. When people don't have something real they can find, they make stuff up.

I'm not saying this will be the case, but you can't dismiss it as a possibility.

Remember Chris Borland? Linebacker out of Wisconsin drafted by the 49ers in the 3rd round of the 2014 draft. In his rookie season he had 108 tackles, 1 sack, and 2 INTs in 8 starts. Then he retired after 1 year, leaving potentially millions on the table, because he saw the risk of brain injury as not worth the millions.

Rosen has 2 documented concussions from college. Given his intellect and his interest in issues, there is the possibility that if he has another concussion or two, he could make the same decision Borland did.

That potential is something a FO has to at least recognize, when they consider drafting him.

Because some third round draft pick from 2014 did it NFL FO's must consider it? Well alrighty then. lol

True, but why is it never applied equally?

http://newsok.com/article/5488431

Here is a story from 2016 regarding Mayfield's two concussions in the final three games.

http://newsok.com/article/5462204
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=14189437

Here is another concussion from 2015 and an accompanying video of the huge hit.

So Mayfield has had at least three concussions himself.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/02/nfl_draft_expert_sam_darnold_josh_allen_rosen.html

Josh Allen has had at least two.

It is interesting that Rosen, because he likes to read, is treated as some sissy who'll run away crying if he gets injured. Reading = nerd = not tough = scared of taking hits. Mayfield more fills the 'meathead' archetype, so the assumption is that he cares little about his own health. Meathead = hyper-masculine = probably likes getting hurt because he'll grow an extra chest hair with each concussion which enhances the steak eating experience.

One thing is worth note, too, and that's Rosen being the best suited to protect himself at the next level. Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and Jackson all, to varying degrees, are scrambling quarterbacks who take plenty of hits. Allen and Mayfield, in particular, have failed to protect themselves and indeed initiated contact on the run. We've seen what happens when that is attempted against NFL linebackers.

Rosen is a pure pocket passer who won't often look to run and will look to slide when he does. He stays in the pocket and gets the ball out quick. Not suggesting a comparison more than it's worth, but a guy like Tom Brady has had sustained longevity for the same reason. He lacks mobility but he is a quick-strike pocket passer.

Concussions are obviously an issue for anyone, but it seems something that is a variable too great to control. What we do know, however, is that it's a question that should be applied to everyone - I just don't understand why it's applied so differently to Rosen just because he's smart. It just seems a lame stereotype.

Posting the shortest cut-up for each prospect.

Constant pressure and a ton of drops. Not sure how Rosen even survived.

Are you talking about the game cut-up I posted or his season?

Take ur pick:)

It wouldn’t surprise me ... i dont believe a thing thats come out ...

We know who were taking ... just dont know who else knows and neither does anyone else ...

5 more days then we’ll finally know and the mud will be flying ... *L* ...

Baker Mayfield - QB - Player

According to ESPN's Rich Cimini, "some insiders believe" the Jets have narrowed their choices to Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield and UCLA QB Josh Rosen with the third overall pick.

The Jets traded up to No. 3 with the sole intent of drafting a franchise quarterback and it looks like their choice will come down to Mayfield or Rosen. Of course, that's assuming USC QB Sam Darnold, who the Browns are considering with the first pick, doesn't slip to No. 3. There's been a lot of Mayfield buzz in New York lately, though Rosen remains a consideration. Even if he's available, it looks like the Jets will pass on Wyoming QB Josh Allen.

Related: Jets

Source: ESPN.comApr 22 - 8:49 AM

To me ... this is more common sense than news ... ...

This has been a CRAZY period leading up to this draft. Now I know why Dorsey says he goes media dark for a month leading up to the draft. All the crap thrown out there would drive a person nuts if they actually put any weight on it. Names will be called on day one and two that will have people scratch their heads and run for their computer trying to figure out who the heck that guy is If it was based on the media "Experts", Jimmy could just buy a Draft Guide and fire all the scouts and GM.

Problem is ... pretty much since our return we’d of drafted much better with the draft guide ... *LOL* ... sad but true ....

You never mention his great bowl games.

They don't exist, unless you count 3 years ago over Nebraska or something.

Plus Rosen went 6-5 last year, 6 home wins, 5 road losses.

Our local radio one said yesterday. YOU PAY THESE GUYS TO PLAY, if your just going to draft them on hand size and measurable then why do they play the (swear) games!
He was yelling.


Less than a week ago, Another radio source, natl I think, said there were 10 things that officials were hearing about the draft from Gm's

1 was that Tremaine and someone else would go early, too many teams liked them.

But one was the Qb which might drop in this is Rosen.

I know all of Mayfields throws won't be available in the pros. that were there in college.

But all 199 Qb's in college football had the opportunity to go out and win games, and none of these guys won games quite like Mayfield did.
and he'd have won his last game if the D didn't give up 10 yards a carry for at least the first 3 quarters.

I think Mayfield is the best Qb,

and Rosen? Well you only look at the measurable if the success is similar.

Rosen? and Darnold? I think they couldn't win in (win enough) in college, they won't be able to in the NFL.

caveat: I am responding specifically to your comment about pressure and drops.


I asked because the perception that Rosen faced 'constant pressure and a ton of drops' doesn't match up with the advanced metrics.

Even in the Washington game. Rosen does face some pressure....but he shows 2 issues that i saw as a recurring theme in his games.....he doesn't escape free rushers and sometimes his reaction to the pressure is a bigger problem then the pressure itself.

Yea that's the rub. I saw too much pressure in this game and about 5 drops just in the cut ups. Rosen doesn't move as well as the others for sure, but then neither did Payton. Its so hard to really evaluate a QB's success or failure based on just wins and losses do to the talent they have around them. What percentage of a QB's players around him will go on to the NFL ? If u swapped ROSEN and Darnolds players how would they have fared ? What system were they asked to play in and did they have the right players for that system ? No one breaks these variables down to a science that I have seen, but I suspect the Scouts and GM's place a huge amount of weight in these variables to grade guys. My eyes tell me ROSEN is the most polished passer with great mechanics and anticipation. More than enough arm and will be a perfectionist in learning the play book. The other QB's might be able to learn what Rosen already does great and be better QB's down the road do to their movement skills but why project If's and maybe's ? People are concerned about Rosen getting hurt but scrambling QB's have a much better chance in my mind to end up on IR then a pure pocket passer that can simply learn to dump the ball off 0r get on the turf like a Payton, Brady or Warner. Rosen is my first choice but I'll support whoever Dorsey decides on .

J/c General comments on Rosen/Baker

Rosen has as good of a chance to be the pick as any other prospect.
I'm not the type that gets hung up on 1 prospect and thinks all the other prospects can't succeed. There different types of QBs that have won SBs and made it the hall of fame.
Situation matters. And I believe the Browns have finally created a situation where a young QB can be developed properly.

I can see a path for Rosen to be successful the same as I can see a path for Baker to be successful. Both have their strengths and question marks....

I agree that Rosen is the best 'pure passer' in this draft class. His throwing fundamentals are rock solid, practically teaching tape stuff. When kept clean he puts the ball on the money...and ran an offense with more 'pro-style' concepts then the other prospects.

For me Rosen's weaknesses/questions stem from his struggles to avoid pressure and to create positive plays especially in the face of free rushers..."playmaking" for lack of a better word. Also for me his production didn't match his skillset..... for a QB with his skills I expected more production and more wins.

You put Rosen in a good scheme with good talent and keep him well protected I can easily see him being a 4,000 yard passer as a rookie. His game reminds me a lot of Winston/Cousins.


Baker's production and efficiency at the college level is staggering even for a 'spread' system that features RPO's. Better efficiency then any prospect I can remember. On the field he's a mature and accurate passer and a good decision maker. He has some ability to avoid pressure and make a play. My questions with Baker stem from the transition from a spread RPO offense to a "pro-style" offense and how much will his accuracy being impacted throwing to covered receivers with less defined reads (i.e. not wide open). To be clear I'm not saying he can't do it....only that we didn't see him do it enough on tape because of his scheme.

But here recently plenty of spread QBs have made the transition to NFL concepts and have made the transition quickly. And as the NFL moves to more spread and more RPO's the question of transition may become less and less important.

Baker reminds me of Case Keenum/Jeff Garcia (when he was playing well) with a sprinkle of Jared Goff. Like with any QB if put in the right scheme I think he could be productive right out the gate. I think he's a good fit for the Jets Shanahan style offense.

Anyone else find it weird that the only QB, of the four that will be drafted at the top of the draft, that we haven't been linked to over the past several days is Josh Rosen?

Maybe there was some truth to the early rumors about John Dorsey not liking him.

Or Josh Rosen has privately said that he won't sign with us, but the NFL wants the illusion of competitive balance maintained.

Completely made up, but it's hard for me to explain Dorsey's apparent disinterest otherwise.

Ever since Hard Knocks came out, the product on the field has seemed to take on more and more of a "reality tv" feel. It seems at times that somewhere in the league offices someone is manufacturing storylines.

Or, perhaps Rosen is our top Qb and we are going to pick him #1 overall and Dorsey is a master illusionist.

That'd make my day

Touché.

I'm surprised I haven't looked into Dorsey's modus operandi with the pre-draft smoke and mirrors. I guess last season sapped my enthusiasm.

We'll find out soon.

https://twitter.com/KyleKellyCLE/status/989239578061168643

If true, I have no faith in a front office that discards Josh Rosen and seriously considers Josh Allen.

Its all speculation from the media.

Dorsey runs a tight ship, his guys aren't out there swapping proprietary draft information.

I think that has been the case for the lsat few times, but now these guys are in the facility talking to people. The entire front office knows who has been talked about and in what context.

I don't think Dorsey has or will lift the moratorium on leaking information just because the media circus is in town.

Imho the media is still speculating.

I don't think there has been a moratorium on leaking information. I think there has been a moratorium on who the team will pick first overall.

Just to be clear...maybe we have our wires crossed...i'm saying that Wyche and other media guys are still just guessing when it comes to details of the Browns QB search and I don't think Dorsey's staff is giving them anything meaningful.

But that won't stop the media from speculating based on what they're told. The media will get blood from a stone.

Do you think Dorsey/staff are giving media solid information now?

I think they're giving them both good and bad information and have been for awhile. That's why no one knows what's going on.

You could be right. But I don't think Dorsey staff is giving them anything.

The media does what the media does.....

Of course the staff has discussed all the top QB prospects and many other scenarios

Yet Browns will be Browns...

Amazing how Josh Rosen is falling out of consideration while being the best QB of the bunch by far, just because of his positions...