Sure hope so. Although, I'd rather stay at four or only move down one to the Broncos. I'd like the best non-qb in the draft be-it Chubb, Fitzpatrick or Barkley.
I am fine with Darnold. I'd far prefer Rosen and I'd prefer Mayfield. But Darnold is fine by me. Allen would be very difficult to take. Let's just say that I've lost sleep dealing with the idea of selecting Allen. I haven't for the three other QBs
Who's talking up? ( besides some press wanna be's) I Never hear a GM talking about any draft prospect in a negative light before a draft. Only ONE person knows who he wants and he AINT talking. The rest is pure gossip at a water fountain.
"Just gotta Coach em up" , "I thought they Battled" , " I need to watch the tape"
Who's talking up? ( besides some press wanna be's) I Never hear a GM talking about any draft prospect in a negative light before a draft. Only ONE person knows who he wants and he AINT talking. The rest is pure gossip at a water fountain.
I imagine they all sit together and try to have a consensus (Dorsey, Jackson, Berry, Hightower, Wolfe, Haley, Zampese). It would be stupid with the number 1 pick for Dorsey not to discuss his feelings with these guys.
Unless he's not concerned "these guys" will be around long enough to matter... If they don't like the pick and don't want to coach him, then he'll find someone who does... This is Dorsey's team now.
I don't see how that bluff would have any impact on 4? I don't see other teams rushing to move up to 4 after we didn't draft him. What are they going to do? "Well, the Browns really liked him, he must be good!"
I could see trying to get the Giants to move up 1 slot. Maybe we think they like Allen.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I agree. I do not see the point in "bluffing" with Allen. I think they really like 2 QBs - Darnold and Allen. One of those will be the choice at #1. I would prefer Darnold, but would not lose my mind, as some would, if we chose Allen.
I agree. I do not see the point in "bluffing" with Allen. I think they really like 2 QBs - Darnold and Allen. One of those will be the choice at #1. I would prefer Darnold, but would not lose my mind, as some would, if we chose Allen.
I don't think Allen is even in the picture. I'm not sure how you can take that big of a risk drafting a guy like this with the #1 overall pick when there are better options.
Sorry for the tangent on the Allen thread, but I've contended throughout the process we were going Darnold or Mayfield.
Mayfield makes a lot of sense when I look at the information. The rumors that Mccloughan was talking up Mayfield to Darnold at the combine and then the Browns hired him? And now nary a peep about him?
Mayfield had a two day visit with the Browns. Have any of the other quarterbacks visited for this long?
I've read that because he drafted Mahomes, that means Allen is the pick. They both have strong arms and that is what Dorsey covets... No it isn't. Alex Smith doesn't have a strong arm, neither does Kevin Hogan, Tyrod Taylor, Drew Stanton....
You listen to Dorsey talk about Mahomes and he doesn't mention arm strength. He never mentions size. But everything he does mention fits Mayfield to a T.
Mary Kay, who I really don't care to quote but will, said yesterday she talked to some upper level scout who said the pick is going to be Allen or Mayfield. It's not going to be Allen, so that leaves....
To make a long story short, the coaches wanted Rosen. The FO wanted Mayfield. The coaches came to Mayfield after the med reports on Rosen weren't good.
Our picks according to this "insider" will be Mayfield and Denzel Ward at #4.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
You read the same thing as I. And that we've been mum on Mayfield in hopes to see if we could draft him at 4. But Dorsey is prepared to take him at 1 and he's been all in on Mayfield this entire time.
I hope it's true. I guess we'll know in a week and a half.
Its a decent microcosm of Allen as prospect. You see him sail a couple of throws. You see him rip a 20ish yard deep out from the opposite hash that gets dropped. You see him throw a rip a ~25ish yards in the air corner route against the hole in cover 2 that gets dropped. You see him break free pressure on 3rd down and scramble for a 1st down. You see him force a some balls into coverage that get broken up and almost intercepted. Then you see him boot right and throw back across his body for TD for the win as time expires.
I wouldn't put much stock in that. Dorsey is notoriously close to the vest when it comes to the draft (this should be taken as a positive), and I highly doubt someone in a position to know would anonymously relay information about our #1/#4 picks on a message board.
I agree. I do not see the point in "bluffing" with Allen. I think they really like 2 QBs - Darnold and Allen. One of those will be the choice at #1. I would prefer Darnold, but would not lose my mind, as some would, if we chose Allen.
I don't think Allen is even in the picture. I'm not sure how you can take that big of a risk drafting a guy like this with the #1 overall pick when there are better options.
I have trouble seeing how some have Allen as the #1 QB in the draft when the vaunted Mountain West conference has him at #3.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
Before Allen took over in 2016 as QB at Wyoming, they were 3-9 in 2014 and 2-10 in 2015. They went 8-6 and 8-5 the next 2 years and a bowl game, I would say that he turned that program around.
But I am sure you will twist that around to be meaningless. Your bias towards Allen is incredibly transparent.
I understand what you are saying. But that last line is very confusing. What possibly bias would Petey or for that matter myself have regarding Allen outside of the fact we think that at this moment HE SUCKS as a QB. What is transparent? again yes, Petey and I both think he sucks that most certainly is transparent. I guess you can say we both have a Bias opinion on the Browns taking a SUCKY QB. In that situation I guess your claim is true.
I understand the kid can progress but the risk is great and Accuracy is a big thing to overcome, I would be fine if it was decision making or something of that nature. But ACCURACY is to me and I think most NFL GM/Personnel men the most important variable in a NFL Prospective QB. Its also the hardest to turn around.
Its like lets say 40 time speed wise is the MOST important variable for X position. And you got a guy who is 5.2 speed. Do I expect improvement? Yes possibly he can be instructed to the point that he will become 4.7 speed. But its a position that you are looking for 4.4 to become great.
There is just so much you can improve on Accuracy as a QB.
Man, I hope we shock the NFL and pick Mayfield...I would love that pick to no end!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
But the kid just isn't close to being accurate enough to be successful in the NFL. Yes, his high ceiling could be Favre but his low ceiling could be Brady Quinn.
For the record that quote was made by me not Petey.
Yes, I see and actually agree with that statement. They actually are so so similar. How can we trade one and then pick another not at 52 but at #1. Actually more similar than one would think.
I forgot about looking at Kizer. The pick of Allen just doesn't make sense in many ways. Probably #1 would be they are very very similar QBs and we just traded one. Allen would simply be Kizer 2.0 and one year behind.
very good point there DaveyD
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Show me 1 big arm QB who has not had some accuracy issues. Some overcome it (Favre, Stafford), and some do not.
This kid has superb athleticism, can extend plays, is intelligent, hard-working, a leader, has won some in college, and has one of the best arms to come into the NFL.
Comparing him to Kizer and Quinn is utter nonsense. Nothing like either, especially the latter. Watch him throw vs either of them and it is night and day. His throwing mechanics are spot on. Quinn and Kizer had/have horrible arm mechanics. He gets his footwork straightened out, his ceiling is higher than anyone in this draft - in my opinion.
Is this the one about how some guy's brother in law is (was?) an employee for the Giants? Even if he is legit... how would he be plugged into John Dorsey's thinking?
I wouldn't put much stock in that. Dorsey is notoriously close to the vest when it comes to the draft (this should be taken as a positive), and I highly doubt someone in a position to know would anonymously relay information about our #1/#4 picks on a message board.
I don't put a lot of stock in it, but it was believable....more so than most.
I also read somewhere that there is a push to change Mayfields mind about not attending the draft. Word is that there is a team who wants him hoisting their jersey on draft night.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Show me 1 big arm QB who has not had some accuracy issues. Some overcome it (Favre, Stafford), and some do not.
This kid has superb athleticism, can extend plays, is intelligent, hard-working, a leader, has won some in college, and has one of the best arms to come into the NFL.
Comparing him to Kizer and Quinn is utter nonsense. Nothing like either, especially the latter. Watch him throw vs either of them and it is night and day. His throwing mechanics are spot on. Quinn and Kizer had/have horrible arm mechanics. He gets his footwork straightened out, his ceiling is higher than anyone in this draft - in my opinion.
Having said that, I hope the Browns take Darnold.
Well, from what you are saying at least Kizer had the excuse of bad mechanics, and could improve on that...
If Josh's throw mechanics are spot on, why is he so inaccurate?
I think Kizer was a better prospect than Josh.. Honestly don't know why his stock is so high, except for the Jordan Palmer's endorsement, INMHO he would be a 2d round pic at best.
I wouldn't put much stock in that. Dorsey is notoriously close to the vest when it comes to the draft (this should be taken as a positive), and I highly doubt someone in a position to know would anonymously relay information about our #1/#4 picks on a message board.
I don't put a lot of stock in it, but it was believable....more so than most.
I also read somewhere that there is a push to change Mayfields mind about not attending the draft. Word is that there is a team who wants him hoisting their jersey on draft night.
Could be. If I had to guess, I'd say that team would be the Jets.
I'll be very surprised if the Browns take Mayfield at 1. Completely shocked, in fact. But, you never know.. that's the exciting part about the draft.
I'm with Peen on this... I'm not saying it's true, but I'm saying it was said and it sounds entirely plausible.
I've wondered for weeks why did we sign Mccloughan right after it was reported he was talking to Dorsey about Mayfield. Did we want him as another voice in the room to support Mayfield?
I read many things and no doubt it's not everything, but I've never seen anyone comment that we hired a guy who quickly said Mayfield was his #1 QB. And it was reported on 2/10 that he was still his top QB.
Granted, maybe not all of this is true... but with Highsmith and Wolf, what need did we have to hire McCloughan other than having another voice for Mayfield in the building.
The ultimate decision on QB is technically with the owner. If Haslam doesn't sign off on it then we aren't drafting him. But Haslam said he was going to stay out of the way.
Highsmith is also a fan of Mayfield. He's even liked tweets about Mayfield being the top QB. Maybe this is all smoke and not sure why he'd even do that...
I think this is one of the most awesome drafts we've ever witnessed because we are less than 10 days away and we have no idea who the #1 pick is... heck it could still be a position player like Chubb.
I'm not taking what I read from some Giant's scout as gospel, but I think it is entirely possible that the first pick in the 2018 draft is Baker Mayfield. I don't understand how anyone could be "shocked" that he'd be the pick. He was the heisman trophy winner and was easily the best QB we've seen coming out of college since Andrew Luck.
My opinion is the pick is, was, and always has been Darnold. Everything else is due diligence, smoke screens, and people making stuff up.
Ok I'll admit that this probably oversimplifies things. I'm sure there are dissenting opinions. What I mean by this is that Darnold is the pick, and at any given time we've had the discussions, Darnold would have been the pick all along. Not everyone in the Browns organization has to like it. At the end of the day, Dorsey calls the shots and he is going to pick Sam Darnold.
It might even be true that some guy on a message board has a brother in law who works for the Giants, and he really was told that Mayfield is going to the Browns.
It's still hard to tell what that means. Maybe the Giants brass really thinks that. Maybe the Giants want Darnold to fall to 2. Maybe they want other teams to think that is a possibility, thereby increasing the value of the 2nd pick. Maybe it's just disinfo, trying to sniff out leaks, or putting it out there for whatever reason. Maybe this anonymous poster isn't being honest about his connections. You just don't really know.
As I stated, his footwork is his biggest issue with accuracy. He has a tendency to over stride and as a result, his ball will sail. That is correctable with repetition.
I always thought the misinfo was that we wanted Darnold.
Things stand out to me. For instance what Dorsey says about Mahomes it sounds just like Mayfield. When Dorsey says if you know what I'm doing I'm not doing my job.
I've followed Allbright since the email incident and he seems wired in. He's been saying Darnold since day one. But his source is someone on the coaching side of things. If legit, these "new leaks" are obviously from the front office side of things.
I have resigned myself to the notion that Darnold is the pick, guys like bone have talked him up that I think he's going to be very good player, but I still believe Mayfield is the prize.
I haven't give up hope on this, however... The one thing that I keep going back to is the hiring of McCoughlan. Why? We have Highsmith and Wolf, how many top execs do we need? Why hire a guy who says Mayfield is the top QB without blinking an eye. Why bring that controversy into the fold? Why? Why hire a guy who is trying to convince the organization to draft a quarterback when that quarterback isn't the one you really want to draft? Why?
Maybe I'm just thinking way too hard about this. Maybe that's just a smokescreen and Mccloughan doesn't care that much for Mayfield. Maybe we want teams to think we are going Mayfield and we'll end up with Darnold or Rosen. Maybe the pick is Rosen and everything we see and hear is us trying to convince everyone else we aren't taking him and we will take Chubb 1 and Rosen 4?
Everything is still on the table....
I'll be disappointed if we don't draft Mayfield, but I'll be excited if it's Darnold or Rosen. I really don't see how it could ever be Allen. I'll throw up if that's the case.
Reading your post, I wonder if you were fine with the drafting of Kizer last season? None of the QB's in this year draft have proven a thing at the NFL level. All the hype is just projections on potential. If Allen is there at number 54 in the 2nd round, would you take him? We all know that Allen will not make it to the second round. For a QB who you have said SUCKS, he will most likely be taken early in the NFL draft. The Browns can not play it conservatively with this draft. They have to draft BOLDLY and with an eye on winning.
Few analysts think Darnold will play day one or would be ready to play day one in the NFL. Many believe that Darnold will benefit from sitting a year or two behind a veteran QB. The #1 overall pick is not a place to have a player sit for a year or two IMHO. If you feel some compulsion to sit a QB a year or two, Allen has a higher upside in my opinion than Darnold so you will not lose if you do sit him a year or two as is projected for Darnold.
Allen is the choice in my opinion. He has always been the choice in my opinion based on size, pro-style offense in college, arm strength, and mobility. I would not be upset with the Browns if they take Darnold #1 overall. I just would not do it if the choice was mine to make. I believe the upside to Darnold is at best Matt Ryan. I believe the upside for Allen is Ben Roethlisberger. Ask yourself who you would rather have as an AFC North QB if my upside comparisons come to pass?
The #1 overall pick is not a place to have a player sit for a year or two IMHO. If you feel some compulsion to sit a QB a year or two, Allen has a higher upside in my opinion than Darnold so you will not lose if you do sit him a year or two as is projected for Darnold.
Allen may pan out, but do we have the right coach to get him there?
Allen was ranked 7th as in the 7th best quarterback. The other analysts said Allen is not a first rounder.
There is way to much risk with Allen. It would be different if he was in another draft. But it makes no sense to gamble when there are three guys that flat out are better.
I wouldn't even consider Allen at 1. It would be one thing if this were 2013 (where the Chiefs picked first and EJ Manuel was the only first round QB that year, at #16), or if we only had the #4 pick this year and Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield were all off the board. Then you'd have to decide whether that risk is worth it.
As is, it's not going to happen. Why would you take Allen #1.. it doesn't make any sense. We should go with that, and not get caught up in all the smoke and mirrors that said Allen is going #1.
I always thought the misinfo was that we wanted Darnold.
Things stand out to me. For instance what Dorsey says about Mahomes it sounds just like Mayfield. When Dorsey says if you know what I'm doing I'm not doing my job.
I've followed Allbright since the email incident and he seems wired in. He's been saying Darnold since day one. But his source is someone on the coaching side of things. If legit, these "new leaks" are obviously from the front office side of things.
I have resigned myself to the notion that Darnold is the pick, guys like bone have talked him up that I think he's going to be very good player, but I still believe Mayfield is the prize.
I haven't give up hope on this, however... The one thing that I keep going back to is the hiring of McCoughlan. Why? We have Highsmith and Wolf, how many top execs do we need? Why hire a guy who says Mayfield is the top QB without blinking an eye. Why bring that controversy into the fold? Why? Why hire a guy who is trying to convince the organization to draft a quarterback when that quarterback isn't the one you really want to draft? Why?
Maybe I'm just thinking way too hard about this. Maybe that's just a smokescreen and Mccloughan doesn't care that much for Mayfield. Maybe we want teams to think we are going Mayfield and we'll end up with Darnold or Rosen. Maybe the pick is Rosen and everything we see and hear is us trying to convince everyone else we aren't taking him and we will take Chubb 1 and Rosen 4?
Everything is still on the table....
I'll be disappointed if we don't draft Mayfield, but I'll be excited if it's Darnold or Rosen. I really don't see how it could ever be Allen. I'll throw up if that's the case.
Just figure we hired McCloughan for his expertise on all prospects, not just the QBs. We have a lot more picks than #1. He already made his comment about Mayfield to that radio station. The Browns didn't hire him just to confirm that.
Like I said though, we'll see on April 26th. I think it'll be Darnold. If I had to pick a dark horse, it would be Rosen. It's a small chance, but I don't think you can completely dismiss the guy who is the best pure thrower in the draft, who has great mechanics and high football IQ. I'd be shocked if it was anyone else. In one of these threads I suggested the following probability:
Just figure we hired McCloughan for his expertise on all prospects, not just the QBs. We have a lot more picks than #1. He already made his comment about Mayfield to that radio station. The Browns didn't hire him just to confirm that.
I resigned myself to that take as well which is why I didn't bring it up. And maybe that's all it is... but why bring in a guy who you knowingly may not want to draft the guy you want to draft at #1?
I jokingly but not really put Mayfield at 90%. But I think your Darnold 90% is 50/50 Darnold/Mayfield. I don't know how we could overlook the best quarterback in the draft, so I really think Mayfield has been in play this whole time... and he's a "finalist" for the top pick overall.
Actually, nothing will surprise me, but I'll be a little curious if the pick is Allen.
As I stated, his footwork is his biggest issue with accuracy. He has a tendency to over stride and as a result, his ball will sail. That is correctable with repetition.
Now, forgive me if I didn't understand you on the first place.
Throw mechanics, like you define, are considered to be intrinsic to the QB and will hardly change. Also you can have a number of difference throw mechanics and be accurate.
Taking in consideration Kizer, it was believed that the major reason for his inaccuracy his the same that you are mentioning with Josh. There was nothing wrong with Kizer's throw mechanics, problem was the platform.
All this takes us to my point. All in all Kizer was a much better prospect, better career and more accurate... Josh has a better arm, but Kizer also has a cannon.
Allen was a baseball pitcher. He knows how to throw a ball - watch the damn tape. If you cannot tell what proper arm mechanics are, I cannot help you. Smooth,fluid, and effortless is Alleb. Kizer has to muscle up to throw anything with velocity. Kizer poor, Allen good.
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