Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
W
Dawg Talker
OP Offline
Dawg Talker
W
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
Hi all - with there being a good chance we take 1 or 2 corners in this class (and perhaps early), what type of cornerback does Gregg Williams favor? Reading up on some of the prospects, it appears some are really good at man-to-man but struggle in zone or vice versa. I know we played our corners almost exclusively off the line of scrimmage with 5-10 yard cushion but I think that was more an indication of talent then scheme preference.

I've seen where Ward, Alexander, Hughes are physical and play more man where as Jackson is best in zone.

Thoughts?


I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Likes: 87
I think that Minkah Fitzpatrick should be in this conversation.

Most I know are assuming that he is being looked at for FS, but what if we think that he can play the corner?
Then I would have to put him at the top of that list, even above Ward.
Maybe he still ends up at Safety, who could know at this point, but if you think that a prospect can play on the corner, then his value is elevated.

I Like Jackson, and have seen some mocks with him falling to the second round. I don't foresee much of a chance in that happening.

Most likely we will be addressing the position in the 2nd round with one of the 33rd or 35th selections.

After the ones you mentioned.
I like
Carlton Davis and Isaiah Oliver in that order in that draft range.

@64 Duke Dawson is a prospect I like, but I think that he might be getting overlooked somewhat, by the deepth of this years class.





Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,101
Likes: 3
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,101
Likes: 3
Fitzpatrick has said he prefers to play CB. Jus' sayin.


1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654
Likes: 510
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654
Likes: 510
We just need more athleticism and more of an ability to play straight man IMO. I think this is our #1 goal in this draft after grabbing the QB.

Would not be surprised with Ward at 4


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,341
D
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
D
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,341
Holton Hill is intriguing as a later pick but he may go as early as the 2nd. Kameron Kelly is another big dude - both are stated to fit as press man corners.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,218
Likes: 211
Hall of Famer
Online
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,218
Likes: 211
Did we all miss Wojo's question? He didn't ask about which corners we like, he started the thread with the question "What is Williams looking for in a corner?"

I think ideally, Williams would corners who can press the Wr.
He wants to get pressure on the Qb but you can't do that if your corners are playing 10 yards off the LOS. The DE beats the tackle then the Qb takes the quick easy 5 yards.

We didn't do that last year because if we had tried that with that crew of Cb's then you would have seen why Peppers was playing so far back.


Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,618
Likes: 240
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,618
Likes: 240
I think Ward is going to be our 2nd first round pick.


Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Originally Posted By: wojo_dew
Hi all - with there being a good chance we take 1 or 2 corners in this class (and perhaps early), what type of cornerback does Gregg Williams favor? Reading up on some of the prospects, it appears some are really good at man-to-man but struggle in zone or vice versa. I know we played our corners almost exclusively off the line of scrimmage with 5-10 yard cushion but I think that was more an indication of talent then scheme preference.

I've seen where Ward, Alexander, Hughes are physical and play more man where as Jackson is best in zone.

Thoughts?
Good post and good questions.

It depends on how you look at it.

I think everyone would like to believe that the their DC wants to play pressman and disrupt WRs at the line......but is that Gregg's MO?

Let's throw out this years schemes because of personnel and look at his schemes the year prior:



Another way to look at it is what types of CBs does he like? But its hard to know because we don't know how much say he had in bringing in CBs at his previous stops. BUT EJ Gaines was player from a previous team that played under Gregg and was brought to the Browns.

EJ Gaines:
http://www.nfl.com/player/e.j.gaines/2543823/combine

Quote:
Strengths

Looks the part with good muscularity and thin ankles. Fills aggressively and supports the run. Likes to hit. Plays with confidence and carries a swagger. Good attitude and football demeanor. Competes hard and brings energy to the field. Good eyes and route recognition. Has experience matching up with slot receivers in nickel coverage and has returned punts. Very good career production on the ball. Proven special teams coverage defender.
Weaknesses

Is short and short-armed. Plays a lot into the boundary. Shows some tightness in his hips. Average transitional quickness -- lacks ideal burst and acceleration to recover and close ground. Can do a better job disengaging from blocks. Most of interception production stemmed from tips and overthrown balls (not created). Average hands.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://withthefirstpick.com/2014/03/19/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-e-j-gaines-cb-missouri/

Quote:
System Fit

Gaines is a zone corner and that is certainly his best fit. That is what he was trained to play at Missouri and while he has experience in man, he is far better in what he brings to the table for zone. He has a good grasp on how to play it and what he can do there to help a team.

Gaines has shown he can play man and there is potential to work with, but he needs to get more attuned to small details and get the most out of himself on every play and not give up any steps by simply not being in a good position to start the play.

Gaines seems best suited to help as a depth corner at least initially, but he does appear to have the long term ability to play a starter in a zone scheme if he can keep getting better physically and just eliminate some bad habits.

Gaines’ skillset and comfort playing deep could also have him get some consideration as a free safety or, should he have a long career, could be a second act in his career.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654
Likes: 510
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654
Likes: 510
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
I think Ward is going to be our 2nd first round pick.
yep, i've thought this for a while too


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
I'll just throw this out there, Tre'Davious White as part of the Bills trading up for the 4th pick.

As a rookie in 2017, White was PFF's second-rated CB (overall, not just among rookies) and is still on a cost-controlled late first round contract for three more years, with a team option for the 5th year. Doubtful the Bills would have any interest in moving him but desperate times call for desperate measures, and they are desperate for a QB.

Quote:
The Bills ran some form of zone coverage on 73.6 percent of their coverage snaps last season and White saw plenty of success within the variety of zone coverages that Buffalo likes to run, as he held opposing quarterbacks to a 72.6 passer rating on throws into his zone. Where he especially shined was when he had the opportunity to lock on in man coverage. White was targeted 28 times in man coverage and he surrendered just ten catches for a total of 118 yards, holding opposing quarterbacks to just a 58.3 passer rating when targeting White’s man coverage. PFF’s Rookie of the Year had a 25.0 PMI on targets into his coverage when playing man, he had a 19.1 PMI when targeted in zone.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Likes: 87
Originally Posted By: Jester
Did we all miss Wojo's question? He didn't ask about which corners we like, he started the thread with the question "What is Williams looking for in a corner?"

I think ideally, Williams would corners who can press the Wr.
He wants to get pressure on the Qb but you can't do that if your corners are playing 10 yards off the LOS. The DE beats the tackle then the Qb takes the quick easy 5 yards.

We didn't do that last year because if we had tried that with that crew of Cb's then you would have seen why Peppers was playing so far back.


This notion that a CB has to be a specific type to fit Williams defense is a hand that gets far too over played on this board. Not one of the prospected I mentioned would not be a good addition to ours or anyother defense.


Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Likes: 136
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Likes: 136
j/c...

K.I.S.S.

Time to get some Speed on this team...real speed.

I predict, think, expect.

2 CBs with 4.3something speed!

jmho


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,200
Likes: 357
Hall of Famer
Online
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,200
Likes: 357
I'm not sure Williams has a type, at least not body or "skillset"-wise. I think he has more of a focus on guys being confident competitors.

Trumaine Johnson and Janoris Jenkins were pretty different.

Any more it's kind of a matchups game anyways. You can't really have just one type of DB. You've got to be able to cover the Antonio Brown types and the Larry Fitzgeralds.


[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns.
Fiercely Independent.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
I think Ward is going to be our 2nd first round pick.


Wouldn't shock me and I wouldn't hate it.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski

"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield

#gmstrong
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Originally Posted By: wojo_dew
Hi all - with there being a good chance we take 1 or 2 corners in this class (and perhaps early), what type of cornerback does Gregg Williams favor? Reading up on some of the prospects, it appears some are really good at man-to-man but struggle in zone or vice versa. I know we played our corners almost exclusively off the line of scrimmage with 5-10 yard cushion but I think that was more an indication of talent then scheme preference.

I've seen where Ward, Alexander, Hughes are physical and play more man where as Jackson is best in zone.

Thoughts?
My guess would be the preferred 'type' would be tough, physical corners that can be active in run support that are good tacklers. They have to be adept at playing both Cover 2 and Cover 3 zone AND show the ability to make plays while playing zone...break-ups and interceptions...they have to be able to play some man but they don't need to be press-man specialists.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,952
Likes: 763
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,952
Likes: 763
Quote:
Greggggg


Just as an aside, I'd like to state as indisputable fact that the correct and proper number of G's for this name is ALWAYS three, as evidenced by our well-named defensive coordinator, or the illustrious Forrest Gregg.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: wojo_dew
Hi all - with there being a good chance we take 1 or 2 corners in this class (and perhaps early), what type of cornerback does Gregg Williams favor? Reading up on some of the prospects, it appears some are really good at man-to-man but struggle in zone or vice versa. I know we played our corners almost exclusively off the line of scrimmage with 5-10 yard cushion but I think that was more an indication of talent then scheme preference.

I've seen where Ward, Alexander, Hughes are physical and play more man where as Jackson is best in zone.

Thoughts?


Agreed that how we used our DBs was more an indiciation of talent than scheme preference. You can see with how Williams often uses a single deep safety that this lends itself to man coverage with the deep safety. Figure either 5 rushers or sometimes it might be 3-4 rushers + 1-2 short zones (combo coverage.) It's also easy to play cover 3 from this look.

Add in some cover 2 and some odd looks (e.g. safety or cb blitzes) and that covers most of it, but the key here is getting some corners that can play man coverage more effectively. Effective pass rush + press man coverage is a simple and winning combination to build off of but you have to have the players to make it happen.

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
W
Dawg Talker
OP Offline
Dawg Talker
W
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
thanks for the responses. Seems like there is concensus from most of the draft pundits on the top 5 (pick an order and excluding Minkah who almost everyone sees as a safety or slot corner on 3rd down)

Top 5
Ward
Alexander
Johnson
Oliver
Hughes

I've seen these guys be in the top 5 as well...

Meeks - Stanford
Davis - Auburn
Jackson - LSU
Stewart - North Carolina

But I've seen some other guys all over from top 50 to 200 so it's kind of hard to follow

Averett - Alabama
Brown - Alabama
Dawson - Florida
Yiadom - Boston College
Hill - Texas

plus there are another 20 guys from small schools or strictly nickle guys


I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
No Josh Jackson?

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 102
H
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
H
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 102
I think he referred to Jackson as Johnson.

You are also on the clock in the Mock Draft.

DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Corners - what does Greggggg Williams want?

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5