DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Allen #2

My son quit HS football because playing QB was throwing off his pitching mechanics so much. He decided being a pitcher was more important than being a quarterback.

For someone to say that they are the same... has never plated QB or a been a pitcher at the same time. They are so different it's not even funny. However, because they are close to the same, it causes a lot of issues when kids do both. You have to be pretty rare in nature to look good mechanically throwing a football and being a pitcher.

allen made a throw rolling to his right along the sideline during senior bowl practice that literally made my chin drop. He is a freak but again, concerns with the shoulder and collarbone. Was not a small crack but it was in 7 pieces. this was after he broke it the first time. He improved steadily thoughout the senior bowl week and looked much more fluid through the combines and proday which shows he is far from a finished product. greatest upside to anyone in the draft.

Now also consider he just never had a game where he looks unstoppable and this was against C level competition. I gives a damn that his receivers struggled to get open, he just didnt shine brightly as the star above everyone else. It wasnt that he failed to throw people open he failed to get it in the same area code at times.

Not saying he is destined to fail but for me, I would take 5 QBs ahead of him, and I still think he is a first round QB. Just back end of first not at the top.

At the end of the day, I am happy with Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield although Mayfield scares the crap out of me also.

There is probably a League memo floating around the FO...that reads as follows;

The League will fine you --said-- amount of money if you, leak the information as to who you will be selecting or trading the first selection. This --said-- amount will be equal to, or exceeding to the calculated amount determined of the loss of media , and sponsors revenues.

If they don't know who they like with the first selection by now, then they are in the wrong business imo.

We are still over a week out from the draft.

We know who is going to be the #1 pick before the draft every year. I don't think this year will be different.

So did Matt Stafford, Tom Brady, and Russell Wilson.

I'm about as close to done with this team as one can be. I used to never miss a second, and I've thrown in the towel more times than I've made the time to watch the last few years.

If we take Allen, I may be done.

He's a fine 2nd-3rd round flier - big athlete with a gun who can move, but isn't accurate and can't read defenses. Those guys pretty much never pan out, and you don't take them in the first, let alone in the top 5.

There may actually be some truth to that. It might not be a memo that literally says that, but years back teams used to sometimes announce the #1 pick ahead of time. This took some of the luster off the draft and the league put the kibosh on it. It's reasonable to think that if the team with the #1 pick makes their selection widely known, it won't be looked at favorably by the league.

And yeah, Dorsey knows who he is going to select. It's a safe bet the Haslams know also. The next tier of people (who are likely to know, but not for certain) would probably be Hue and some of the higher level executives and anything that comes out from that group is probably more likely to be smoke than it is to be real. This is why we have some people convinced Mayfield is the guy, others worried we're going to pick Allen, and some even think it could be Barkley or Chubb. (???)

What was it that Dorsey said? If you know who I'm going to take, I'm not doing my job.

I agree, ...but first you must define...WE...because I can can count four different choices for that selection in this thread.

I guess that defines who we aren't by omission.

Good quote

thanks

So per the other thread (see Grateful's post), Hue says Dorsey hasn't settled on which QB he'll draft. Of course Dorsey knows who is he is going to draft. This makes me think Hue really doesn't know who it will be, or it's possible he does and this is his way to not spill the beans. Who knows.

Yeah, I saw that...I came away thinking...nice white washing lol.

Their board is set...maybe not set on which scenario of combinations, but their board is set, which doesn't preclude them from looking at whatsoever offers may come their way.

The right coach, I would hate to comment on that one. I have my doubts on the abilities of a coach who has a 1-31 record as your HC.

If you believe that Allen has the higher upside potential and you are not drafting to not lose but are drafting to win, Allen makes all the sense in the world, IMHO.

Allen is a low floor, high ceiling prospect, with high bust potential. His accuracy is horrible, and his anticipation is seriously lacking.

I cannot imagine a new regime, with the top pick, and 3 other legitimate options at QB, would take that chance.

And his low floor is like BQ low.

lack of poise in the pocket is an understatement in many of his games.
He will rush many throws, which in turn leads to his low completion %.

Lamar Jackson looks like a smooth operator in comparison to Allens tape and has a much higher floor, above that of Teddy Bridgwater imo.

The only way we should consider Allen is if we are set take another position (BPA), or to trade out of one (God forbid, we do) and expect three Qb's to come off the board by our forth selection, thinking to take Allen if he is available, but if Lamar Jackson was on the board in this scenario, then I would take Jackson.

Drafting Allen is not exactly drafting to win. Too big of a gamble. The bust potential is there. While he may have the highest ceiling of the top QBs in the draft, he also has the lowest floor. He is the least ready to play in the NFL right now, and it will take a lot of work to get him there, if he can get there.

Drafting Allen is more like trying to show everyone that you're the smartest guy in the room.

[quote=Voleur] If you believe that Allen has the higher upside potential and you are not drafting to not lose but are drafting to win, Allen makes all the sense in the world, IMHO. [/quote

Do you know who unquestionably had the highest upside potential in the 2007 draft?

JaMarcus Russell.

High ceilings mean nothing if the odds of getting off the floor are slim to none.

Allen sitting behind eli for 2 or 3 years makes the most sense.

I hope this Allen talk is just to try to get the Jets to swap picks. First it was rumored we wanted Darnold and so did the Giants but they haven't bit so know it's rumored we want Allen to entice the Jets. I wonder if maybe the FO is looking at Mayfield or maybe one of the non QBs at #1.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Neil/status/986617154811387904

If Mayfield is the guy Dorsey wants, fine, I don’t like him as the face of the Browns but will trust what Dorsey sees. On the other hand he can be had, IMO with a small trade down, IE the jets, so why not do that?

Josh allen would make an awesome TE.

What if Josh Allen were black?

(That's my Jeopardy answer.)

lol

honestly though, if allen was black, he wouldn't come close to being considered #1 overall.

he'd be getting the Kizer treatment. with his numbers be worse than kizer, probably wouldn't go past the 3rd-4th round.

I believe that the success of the Cleveland Browns in 2018 has less to do with Hue Jackson and more to do with the HC Haley and the DC. Hue Jackson has had 32 games to show his abilities to lead a team. He has failed. I hope he has learned something. I believe the Browns have more talent on the roster in 2018 than 2019. All that being said, Hue Jackson has to win and win big now. A 5-11 season with the commitment the team has made to improve is not good enough in my opinion. I hope Hue Jackson succeeds beyond my wildest dreams. I am not confident of it though.

As for Josh Allen making no sense for the Browns, I still do not follow the reasoning you have given. If he is such a horrible prospect, why is he being associated with the top of the NFL draft even when the Browns take Darnold with the #1 pick? Are other teams more sense for him? Is having Josh Allen prosper in New York make the Cleveland Browns any better for having passed on him? If you believe that the #1 overall pick should be a QB, not named Allen, and they should sit behind Tyrod Taylor for the 2018 campaign, your logic for not taking Allen is destroyed by your own argument for taking another QB at #1.

Every one of the QBs in the draft have potential to be busts. I do not even know where the smartest guy in the room comment comes from.

For the Giants it makes sense. Makes no sense for the Browns.

No one has the bust potential of Allen. Of the top QBs in the draft he has the worst odds of becoming a franchise guy. Inaccurate, stares down receivers, poor decisions. He wasn’t even 1st or 2nd team in the Mountain West conference.

When you have the pick of any QB in the draft and you take Allen, you are trying to show you know more than all of the evaluators who have other guys rated higher. Huge gamble passing on guys for Allen. He is not ready, not close. I doubt one year will be enough. Draft him we better extend Taylor.

The next week will feel like a month . . .

Browns notebook: Former GM Phil Savage among those who believe Josh Allen-to-Cleveland buzz

Published: April 19, 2018 - 10:20 AM

By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal/Ohio.com
Former Browns General Manager Phil Savage is buying into the hype that Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen could be drafted first overall by Cleveland on April 26.

Savage explained his reasoning Wednesday when he was asked during a conference call which quarterback he thinks the Browns will pick at No. 1.

“If you asked me that a week ago, I’d give you a different answer than I’m going to give you right now, but in my estimation, with Tyrod Taylor being in place as the starter for 2018, I think they do have time to work or develop behind the scenes one of these quarterbacks that they take,” said Savage, the executive director of the Senior Bowl and an analyst for SiriusXM NFL Radio. “And in that division, in that environment weather-wise, AFC North, I think it could conceivably be Josh Allen when it’s all said and done.

Savage explained his reasoning Wednesday when he was asked during a conference call which quarterback he thinks the Browns will pick at No. 1.

“If you asked me that a week ago, I’d give you a different answer than I’m going to give you right now, but in my estimation, with Tyrod Taylor being in place as the starter for 2018, I think they do have time to work or develop behind the scenes one of these quarterbacks that they take,” said Savage, the executive director of the Senior Bowl and an analyst for SiriusXM NFL Radio. “And in that division, in that environment weather-wise, AFC North, I think it could conceivably be Josh Allen when it’s all said and done.

“He’s the biggest body of all [the top-rated quarterbacks in this class]. He’s played in cold weather. To me, the evaluation on him is not really what he would give you this coming weekend but what he’s going to give you 18 months from now. To me, he’s got the highest upside, maybe, but he’s got the most room to grow I think also amongst the four quarterbacks that are here at the top of the draft.”

The four top-rated quarterbacks are Allen, Southern California’s Sam Darnold, Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield and UCLA’s Josh Rosen.

Browns coach Hue Jackson insisted Tuesday they’re all still in the mix for the top pick and that new General Manager John Dorsey has yet to settle on his choice. Dorsey is scheduled to hold a pre-draft news conference at 11:30 a.m. Thursday at team headquarters in Berea.

Darnold had been widely considered the favorite to become the top pick, but in the past few weeks the national buzz linking Allen to the Browns has been constant.

“I think Cleveland is going to stay there [at No. 1] and take either Sam Darnold or Josh Allen,” ESPN analyst Todd McShay said Wednesday during a conference call. “More people in the league I talk to are saying Josh Allen now, but until John Dorsey has said it or the commissioner announces the name, you just never know.”

Allen possesses elite arm strength, and many people in league circles have noted how Dorsey covets the trait. Dorsey worked for the Green Bay Packers when they won Super Bowls with strong-armed QBs Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. He was the GM of the Kansas City Chiefs last year when they traded up from No. 27 overall to No. 10 to pick Patrick Mahomes, who’s known for his ability to throw a football 80 yards or more.

Even before Allen participated in the Senior Bowl in January, ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr. predicted the Browns would draft him at No. 1. Kiper has maintained his stance, even though Allen’s career completion percentage of 56.2 at Wyoming has fueled skepticism about him becoming the top selection.

“He’s a great kid. He takes to coaching, and he’s got super-elite, rare talent in terms of size, arm strength, athleticism,” Kiper said Wednesday during a conference call. “All that working together, if you coach him properly, he could be spectacular. I’ve compared him to Matthew Stafford, Brett Favre.

“Remember, Stafford had his critics, too, because he was only 57 percent coming out of Georgia. People said, ‘He should be a second-round pick. He’s a thrower, not a pitcher.’ I heard the same things about Matthew Stafford when he went No. 1 [in 2009 to the Detroit Lions], and he should’ve gone No. 1. He’s had a heck of a pro career, and he’s been at 66 percent the last three years in the NFL.”

Allen has worked with private quarterback coach Jordan Palmer in an attempt to correct poor footwork that led to most of his accuracy issues in college. He showed improvement at the NFL Scouting Combine and Wyoming’s pro day, but the real challenge will come in games, when it’s not nearly as easy for quarterbacks to avoid reverting to bad habits.

“The ball does spray on him at times,” Savage said. “But if you’re forecasting what these guys are going to look like in 2019 or 2020, then, to me, he may in fact have the most upside.”

Thank God he isn't running our draft anymore! I'd say the actual performance record of Phil Savage should speak volumes in regards to his opinion.

You took the words right out of mt mouth Pit.

Allen would be worse then. the BQ pick, with similar results imo.

At the end of the interview they cut the mic off but I could hear in my mind Phil saying I see everything in him that I loved in Jamarcus 'russell, We almost had Russell but the Raiders backed out,

Unless Dorsey just has true tunnel vision for Allen, the pick is gonna be Darnold. You go to a consensus and I think Darnold is gonna be everyone's 1 or 2 QB when they sit down, I think there will be folks in that room that sees Allen as the 5th or 6th QB. '

I see Dorsey with 3 QBs options and Mayfield's size and Rosen's injuries propell Darnold to that #1.

I like what he said there with, (in the end conclusion) you have to trust your eyes...

You can only do this based on your experience, so yes all of the new aged analytics are a great added resources to your team, but end the end...you have to trust your eyes...and Oh BTW...does he have small hands when it comes to a QB.

Both of theses examples are what many coming up in the new age mindset, concidered of a mythological nature.

7 Days and counting down.

In a bit of an oddity, the only other QB option available & worthy at that (Quinn) pick is now with the Browns: Drew Stanton.

Also, the very next pick after that has also spent time here - and also flamed out. Dwayne Bowe.

One of the traits Dorsey mentioned is accuracy. Allen is not an accurate QB. His ball placement is poor. I don't see how accuracy = Allen.