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Ogbah is one heck of a 4-3 DE that makes everyone around him better. Just out of curiousity does anyone have Garrett's numbers with Ogbah starting/playing. compared to his numbers when Ogbah was out with injury.
I know he led the 2016 Browns in sacks as a rookie. Was better in 2017 for his 10 games. Most teams ran away from him. But he did cause 2 fumbles and recovered one of them. His improvement from year one to year two was very noticeable. He was able to keep blockers in control with his right arm and manned the edge like a vet. Big drop off when he got injured.
That is why Diam states situational pass rusher cause downs one and two without a doubt Ogbah will be starting and on passing downs he probably will remain on the field most likely moving inside as we would insert Chubb. Ergo situational pass rusher.
I know if we have an injury to one of our starting DEs it would be a big difference. We can utilize a BPA pick on a pass rusher in this deep draft class. I do not see that as a pick at #4.
I thought it was very telling that we did not utilize one of our Berea visits on a DE prospect. If it was something we thought of as a need surely we would have brought in 2 or 3 prospects in for a visit.
As for the kid from GB he was noted as one of the better FS prospects in his draft class. It also was noted that he was forced into CB and was playing out of position. I think it was excellent experience for him. He eliminates need but does not eliminate us upgrading on him.
Personally I think Minkah gets drafted he is going to be one of our starting CBs. Actually from what I read, so does he.
I think it would be Barkley unless he gets taken by the Giants...which for some reason I believe is a ploy so that we take him at one freeing up Darnold for them at 2. Which Dorsey ain't falling for that.
jmho
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Everyone keeps talking about how valuable PASS RUSHERS are .. and i agree .. there HUGE ...
But in todays NFL ... a player with the VERSATILITY and BRAINS Fitz has ... hes a CHESS PIECE like no other ... that’s HUGE ....
There’s not many DB’s u have to game plan for ... there simply isn’t ... well Fitz will need to be ACCOUNTED FOR on every play ... he will be an OC’s NIGHTMARE ...
PLUS ... he will put others where they belong allowing them to make more plays ...
Hes a NO-BRAINER to me ....
No one gives that any credence ...
I POSTED SOME ARTICLES ON HIM ... if u haven’t read them, let me know ... i’ll PM them to u ... I’ve loved this kid from day 1 .. after reading those articles and watching those videos .. I LOVE HIM EVEN MORE ...
He’s OBSESSED WITH FOOTBALL and NOT FAILING .... with his skill set and that drive ... NO BRAINER!!!!!
Hes become a NO BRAINER to me ...
AND I THINK CHUBB IS A real good football player .. this is not a slam on Chubb ... it has everything to do with Fitz’s skill set and the fact we all ready have Og and MG ...
Anyhow ... let me know if u want me to get u those links ...
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I don't think we take Chubb that's why I hope Hubbard drops, Fitz is possible if Barkley goes to the Giants, even if he doesn't I don't know if Dorsey takes him, I also like Ward a lot he is a shutdown CB, who knows after we get our QB we may even trade out?
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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One of Chubb's strengths is that he sets the edge so I don't see how you can say he will be a situational pass rusher.
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So far when it comes to the secondary, they've placed a band aid on a bullet wound. I mean sure, that'll help slow down the bleeding until you can stitch it up but it's not going to close the wound.
From what I've been reading, there's a lot of people who think we signed a lot more talent than we actually did in the secondary. CB and FS are HUGE needs for our Browns!
Some people just don't learn from history. If they can't see where the biggest weakness was from last year outside of the QB, they weren't watching very closely.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Agreed. However, you have three second round picks to fill those needs as well. A top 5 (non-QB) pick should be best player available.....not need.
I like Chubb and Fitz, and won't be upset with either but I hope that guy is the BPA on their board and not a need reach because our secondary still sucks.
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Its also a deep class...after Hubbard there is Sweat (who I like) Aruna and later on a kid named Fitt?
We can upgrade our depth without taking Chubb at #4. I would like for us to upgrade on Orchard and Nassib. Nassib intrigues me still as he seems to be good depth. I think most of the negatives is when he has been forced into the starter role.
Diam I know of Minkah's onfield coaching prowess. I admire Saban and have followed a lot of his moves. I know of Fitzpatrick given the opportunity view film with the coaches and to be involved in the Defensive game planning. It is an amazing honor bestowed upon him.
But as in many things with college, will it be the same in the NFL. Not saying he won't be an asset in that area. Just will it have the same magnitude and how many years would it take.
What I do not like is that our need for CB will throw him at that position over FS and he and his agent would prefer that cause a Pro Bowl Cover Corner makes so much more than a Pro Bowl FS. I see possibly after 6-7 seasons seeing him move over to FS as lets say a Woodson has done before him to lengthen their PRO BOWL Careers.
Many draft sites have him dropping in their mocks...usually they are indicative of what they hear through the grape vine. I have found usually the top 10-15 are very accurate by the time the draft rolls around.
But it makes me think his value in the draft drops when he's considered a CB. Also that the NFL does not put as much value in his On field coaching abilities as much as you have.
Don't get me wrong. I think it is very advantageous having a free safety who has a prowess at calling the coverages.
Like lets say a kid named Russell did in the past. Actually Minkah's skill set is what is going to force him to the role of CB not FS. Just thinking out loud.
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I guess I'm a little different when it comes to BPA. I actually think that's a pretty vague term that really doesn't mean much. I think players are more rated in clusters which put them so close the difference is almost non existent. Especially very early in the draft.
Now that may not be true at each position. I'm sure there is probably a gap between the first and second rated CB, FS, QB, WR and so on. But when you try to determine which player is #1, #2 and #3, I bet those grades are so close that BPA really holds little meaning.
I believe there is clearly a QB or maybe even two QB's worthy of the #1 pick. But when it comes to #4, there may be a handful of players that would be suited at that pick. That there BPA is virtually identical.
By the time you reach the mid point in the second round I would say that changes. I just think that BPA is something that some fans put too much stock in at the top of the draft.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Let's see where they go on draft night. Personally, Fitz was the guy I wanted early in the process, but Chubb and Ward have grown on me as well. If I had to guess based on where things are at after the NFL people way in (who I admit know WAY more than I do), I bet they go like this.....
Chubb
Ward
Fitz.
Again I am happy with any of them, but I don't think Fitz is at the top of anyone's board in the NFL, and very likely won't be the first DB selected. Chubb on the other hand might go 2 overall, and won't make it out of the top 6. I know Barkley is the consensus BPA, but Chubb to me is ahead of him on a lot of team's boards.
My point being, if Fitz isn't in that first cluster of players (and I personally don't think he is on our board imo) then you draft Chubb. I think Ward is in that first grouping so you might get your wish there.
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One of Chubb's strengths is that he sets the edge so I don't see how you can say he will be a situational pass rusher. We have MG and Og ... 1 of those 3 is either SITTING or playing out of position on EVERY SINGLE PLAY ... Thats what i mean by situational ... not that he will only play on passing downs .. Chubb is one hell of a football player ... NEVER ONCE HAVE I SAID HE WASN’T ... i made it a point to say how good he is the first 15 - 20 times i talked about it .. He just doesnt make sense for us ...
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Agreed. However, you have three second round picks to fill those needs as well. A top 5 (non-QB) pick should be best player available.....not need.
I like Chubb and Fitz, and won't be upset with either but I hope that guy is the BPA on their board and not a need reach because our secondary still sucks. U said it right there my friend ... WTF ... u just said it ... If Fitz and Chubb are rated CLOSE ... how the hell do u not take the guy who FILLS THE GLARING NEED and will also PLAY ON EVERY DOWN .... How do u not choose that guy? ... especially if u draft the other one ... that picks going to either be sitting out or playing out of position or hes going to force a pretty damm good player (MG and Og) to either sit or pLay out of position ON EVERY SINGLE PLAY ..... Come on man ... you just said it ... u didnt realize it but u just made this a NO-BRAINER ... I dont see how u can justify taking a guy that will be “situational” ... it makes no sense to be playing one of those 3 out of position on every play there all in together or having them SITTING OUT ... I think u have to get more out of your the 4th pick in the draft ... and like i said ... u just made my argument bro ... 
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I have no idea if Fitz is in that first cluster. If he isn't, the future will certainly show us why he should be.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Go read this article tab ... this kids talented and driven ... its a wining ass combo .... Bro ... when he was in pop warner his team was in some huge tourny at Disney .... they were in the championship game ... he was yelling at his teammates for going swimming cause he said they’d be tired ... he refused to join them ... that was in POP WARNER BRO ... He’s driven ... he went to Bama cause he said he wanted to be challenged on and off the field ... he knew off the field he would be in a spot he knew nothing about but he knew going there to such an unfamiliar place (hes from Jersey .. *L*) ... would make him a better person in the long run ... His HS coach kept telling him he’d never play as a freshman at Bama ... his response never changed from day 1 ... i’ll work harder coach and play as a freshman coach ... witch he did .. thats UNHEARD OF at Bama ... True freshman red shirt .. he played and contributed ... Dudes special in so many ways ... read the article tabber ... we both know what this combo of talent/brains and drive means ... his attention to detail is LEGENDARY ... Its all their bro ... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27416...-nfl-stars-bodyPlease go read it ... its not just a fluff piece .. it reveals a lot about the person and what drives him ... and whats special is just how driven he is ...
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Ok,I get ya now.
I don't have a problem with any of these guys (Chubb, Fitz, Barkley, Ward) at 4 but I would prefer Chubb.
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I get it...I understand it. All got a story but the kid is a leader with out a doubt. Ok you convinced me regarding if we decide to go on the D side of the ball for #4 I hope its Fitzpatrick over Ward or Chubb.
I still think nothing would make this team Better than us drafting Barkley. He is special and I don't know the Brown in me says lets do it with a special RB!!
But just remember the last time I said...Ok you convinced me...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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We are going to have options at #4. It's going to be a hard decision.
We are going to have to choose between 2-3 really good players or decide to trade down.
In the end, I think the trade down option is the route we take. Somebody is going the make us a offer we really can't refuse.
Dorsey is here for the long run. I think he will like the idea of picking up another first rounder for next year where we should be picking in the middle or lower of the draft.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I think Dorsey is going to use Buffalo to get the Broncos to move up for Allen and surrender their #40 in the 2nd round.
We still get the first positional player in this draft. and have 33, 35 and 40 at the early end of the 2nd round. And I can see us parlaying another earlier 2nd with somebody their we are targeting by using our #64 and 4th rounder.
As stated several times we got plenty of Quantity and the opportunity for Quality. Time to get us some drafted studs. Something we don't hit on normally so possibly we are desensitized with this opportunity at hand.
This is the YEAR it all changes!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think Dorsey is going to use Buffalo to get the Broncos to move up for Allen and surrender their #40 in the 2nd round.
I would love it if Dorsey could make that happen.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I think Dorsey is going to use Buffalo to get the Broncos to move up for Allen and surrender their #40 in the 2nd round.
We still get the first positional player in this draft. and have 33, 35 and 40 at the early end of the 2nd round. And I can see us parlaying another earlier 2nd with somebody their we are targeting by using our #64 and 4th rounder.
As stated several times we got plenty of Quantity and the opportunity for Quality. Time to get us some drafted studs. Something we don't hit on normally so possibly we are desensitized with this opportunity at hand.
This is the YEAR it all changes!
jmho There are numerous possibilities. I said that in my post. I just presented one of them. You presented another, somebody else might mention another. I just don't consider the 12th pick a crap pick. I don't mind staying put. It just depends what is being offered.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't like the idea of missing out on Chubb but if we get a future first and still stay in range of Fitz and Ward I'd be good with it.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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40 might be too steep of an overpay for Denver to swallow but as long as it's their first 3rd rounder (71) and not their second (99...though at a 104 pt value that will likely be their first offer), then that's still a great trade (and a free day 2 pick).
For some reason I think Dorsey is looking at DT's more than DE's (but maybe that's just because of the 4 published private workouts we've had with non-QB, 1st-round prospects, 2 are DT's- Hurst and Vea).
Meh, with his medical Hurst may fall to 33 anyway.
On a side note, has anyone else noticed the enormous amount of late draft/ URFA meetings we've had with DB's and WR's?
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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I don't like the idea of missing out on Chubb but if we get a future first and still stay in range of Fitz and Ward I'd be good with it. I feel the same, but everything has a price. I don't know what that price might be, but I am sure Dorsey has one in his mind,.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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To me ... buffalos the team ... but no way do i want to drop to 12 ... for me ... buffalo would have to get to 7 or 8 ... TB or Chicago ...
Not sure how they could do that and still have enough left to move up to 4 ...
I would want to make sure i got Fitz or Ward so i would prefer 7 but would settle for 8 ...
Indi could be a spot also ... they need bodies and lots of them ...
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I would be OK with going to 12, but only for a totally unreasonable trade.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Of course there are different scenarios and possibilities I guess. None being valid and none being impossible.
As for picking 12 and not 4 DIFFERENCE??? well at 12 we should get the 7th positional player in this draft at 4 we will get FIRST...there is a pretty big difference in Quality. Doesn't mean the guy at 12 won't be good. But there is a difference.
Again if we ASSume are guys don't have a clue evaluating as in our past drafts there might not be much of a difference.
But if we have actually built a a good staff for the personnel department. The advantage should be big.
jmho
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Ugh .... I am watching the the 2011 draft on NFL Network.
Watching Christian Ponder go off the board because of a good Senior Bowl gave me this really sick feeling in the pit of my gut.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ugh .... I am watching the the 2011 draft on NFL Network.
Watching Christian Ponder go off the board because of a good Senior Bowl gave me this really sick feeling in the pit of my gut. I disagree YTown... watching that draft makes me feel VERY hopeful. He was the 4th QB to be taken! Newton, Locker and Gabbert went before him (yuck what a class). I know a good Senior Bowl helped him, but it was mainly teams desperate for a QB getting nervous and just taking a QB for the sake of taking a QB!! We have the top pick, and we will take the top QB on our board. Hopefully the front office is smart and goes with the best QB, and not the best "practice" which I am confident they will. I then see 2-3 QBs going in the next 4 picks! Teams will start to go mad and start reaching. Guys like Lamar Jackson, Rudolph, White and Faulk will be shoved up the board, moving other players at non quarterback positions down the draft for our choosing!! I have made the bold prediction before, and I will claim it again. I predict 7 QBs in the first round!!! The big 4 will go top 5-6. I believe Rudolph will go in the teens (I mocked Redskins taking him at 13). I think teams start to panic, and some team will reach for Jackson also in the teens (I mocked Baltimore trading up to 14 to get him). I believe then, some team will trade into the 28-32 pick to grab either Faulk or White, to secure the 5th year option.
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I don't think anyone questions Fitz's ability or potential impact for any team.
If the Browns keep the fourth pick he has to be considered an option.
Personally I am at the point that I believe you would have to be pretty dense to blow the first and fourth pick in this draft.
The options are close to can't miss.
It becomes all about what Dorsey and his group sees as "fits" for this team.
We are faced with taking players that should be the Best players in the country at their position.
After the first round is when we will find out how good the Dorsey group is at running the draft.
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You said "we'll take the best QB on the board" .. yes, in an ideal world we would. But, IMO, there's a greater chance that we won't.
Heck, nobody even knows who the best QB is.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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We shouldnt confuse poster not knowing who the better QB is from our FO n Coaching staff not knowing.
Unless u believe the pre draft bs that we havent decided yet. We have known for quite a while.
Heck even I think I know who the better QB is n Im an amateur.
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We have MG and Og ... 1 of those 3 is either SITTING or playing out of position on EVERY SINGLE PLAY ...
Possibly. However, I have also read that GW has packages that could move MG inside and play EO and BC on the edge. Imagine....Ogunjobi/Coley/Meder (whoever is in at the time) + Garrett, Chubb and Ogbah. That instantly makes things easier for the LBs and the Corners.
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... GW has packages that could move MG inside and play EO ... Our EO? Oh, wait... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Baker Mayfield - QB - Player
According to ESPN's Rich Cimini, "some insiders believe" the Jets have narrowed their choices to Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield and UCLA QB Josh Rosen with the third overall pick.
The Jets traded up to No. 3 with the sole intent of drafting a franchise quarterback and it looks like their choice will come down to Mayfield or Rosen. Of course, that's assuming USC QB Sam Darnold, who the Browns are considering with the first pick, doesn't slip to No. 3. There's been a lot of Mayfield buzz in New York lately, though Rosen remains a consideration. Even if he's available, it looks like the Jets will pass on Wyoming QB Josh Allen.
Related: Jets
Source: ESPN.comApr 22 - 8:49 AM
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To me ... buffalos the team ... but no way do i want to drop to 12 ... for me ... buffalo would have to get to 7 or 8 ... TB or Chicago ...
Not sure how they could do that and still have enough left to move up to 4 ...
I would want to make sure i got Fitz or Ward so i would prefer 7 but would settle for 8 ...
Indi could be a spot also ... they need bodies and lots of them ... Not at all disputing your thoughts on Fitz, and of course who we take won't be decided here. However, I would point out to you that we rotate D linemen as do most NFL teams so your thoughts that someone would play and someone would sit are a bit off IMO, in the way your framing it. Someone always does get a blow while someone else plays its normal and I personally think having stud DE's is highly desirable, and as many as we can get. The constant pressure will create turnovers and will make the back end better too. Your argument for the DB is better then the one for a RB and equal to the one for a stud pass rusher. Both positions have better value and the shelf life is markedly better. If the Browns move down Fritz very well could be the target, if they pick at 4 then it will likely be Chubb or Barkley??? Watch where they move to if its still top ten then its likely Fitz, if its 5-6-7 it will be Chubb of Brakely IMO.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,351
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
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I'd like to see us take Darnold #1. If we stay at 4 any one of Barkley. Chubb or Fitz would be o.k. with me. I don't think we can go wrong with any of them. IMO our FO is favoring a D player at 4 simply because the RB class is deep and we can get a player who will produce close to what SB will give us. Again, it's JMO.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,982
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
FWIW ...
Josh Allen - QB - Player
A source he "trusts" who is "very well-connected" and "very often right" told MMQB's Peter King the Browns won't take Wyoming QB Josh Allen with the No. 1 overall pick.
It should be a breath of fresh air for Cleveland fans; analytically, Allen barely belongs in the first round let alone in conversation for the No. 1 pick. King published a mock draft in his MMQB article, and sent USC QB Sam Darnold to the Browns at No. 1. We agree and also expect Cleveland to take Darnold.
Related: Browns
Source: SI.comApr 23 - 2:23 AM
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