DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Waffle House shooting leaves 4 dead, several wounded in Tennessee

I'd say give them non-lethal weapons.

But again, this is only if there's a ban on guns. In my plan I'm proposing, there is no ban. Just a bunch of guns being destroyed and taken off the streets. And a lot less people allowed to carry one.

And furthermore, that person who's lost their right to carry a gun, and gets pulled over and found to have possession of one, will now do some serious jail time.

This should help cut down on those people who illegally obtain a firearm too.

Ok, but cops can't have guns. A swat team can have a secured and monitored gun safe, but cannot use those weapons unless it's in a time of emergency.

Good for you! I for one am glad my father was able to protect us as children if needed. Im not fond of being a victim, so ill take my chances with my firearm.

probably? maybe? sounds like a way of saying you realize with no gun you have a 0% chance. with a gun, even at 1% chance to protect my family, ill take it over 0.

You realize violent criminals are already banned from having firearms right???? What part of that don't you get. Your laws, will do nothing from preventing a violent criminal from getting a gun, because ALREADY DO NOT WORK.

So, again 0% chance to save your family is ok with you. You have no problem with not being able to protect as a parent.....wow.

I used to work for a alarm system company. When you alarm goes off, they call your house first, if no answer or you don't provide the passcode, they dispatch the police. that takes anywhere from 2-5 minutes. It then takes anywhere from 2-15 min for the police arrive. Its takes a second to end your life your childrens lives.

So your defense is to scream, huh? Scream for neighbors who are armed? screamed for the police who armed?

That's your answer to being a husband and father "to let your family die". Wow, I wonder did your father in law know this when he gave away his daughter?

wow, so glad you know what I think or how I act. or what training in firearms I have or have not. or any military experience I have or have not. ASSumptions much? I may not be Rambo, but I know you are victim.

Honest question, would African Americans be ok with only the police and government having access to firearms? Jews?

You're the one making assumptions with this home invasion scenario. I'm answering honestly. I don't have a gun. Nothing will change that.

You never answered my question about what good a gun will do your family if it's locked in a gun safe somewhere in the house?

Are you going to have it holstered on your side 24/7 in the living room playing with your beautiful baby and wife?

And I'm going to put this in all caps so you can read it and remember it.

IN MY PLAN, GUNS GET TAKEN OFF THE STREET AND DESTROYED. SO YES, CRIMINALS CAN ALREADY OBTAIN A GUN ILLEGALLY, BUT IT BECOMES HARDER AND MORE EXPENSIVE TO DO SO WHEN MY PLAN HAS DESTROYED SO MANY OVER TIME.

Supply and demand!

No, and that's why I said they should have non-lethal weapons.

But again, THIS IS ONLY THE CASE IF THERE IS A BAN. My plan does not call for a ban.

Sorry for all the caps, but Willit just seems to miss certain points.

That's exactly why they wouldn't have guns. While all swat members are cops, not all cops are swat team members. If Americans can't have guns then no leo should have a gun. ICE is already a Gestappo lite, could you imagine if no one had a gun?

And lets also remember Willit, that in your Rambo scenario, when those guys kick in the door, you have to react very quickly, unclasping the holster latch, pulling the gun, and turning off the safety, all while trying to get a clean shot and not hitting your family.

Meanwhile, those violent people are coming in after breaking down the door, and will be ready to fire.

Your scenario is ridiculous.

And calling me a victim is ridiculous. I'm a victim today I suppose, and I'll be a victim tomorrow. I will not have a gun in my home.

You do realize there's around 350,000,000 guns currently owned by citizens in the U.S. More guns than people.

How much impact do you really feel your idea will have at this juncture?

I absolutely answered your question. I stated that without a gun you 0% chance, with gun even if only 1% - I will take it.

A lot of times the invaders have scouted your home, they would know I am armed - thus knowing I have a firearm inside. Chances are, they would skip my door and go to the next.

maybe, maybe not. Depends. I have had my firearm on me inside my home so its not out of the question.

I knew exactly where our gun was growing up, and how to use it if need be. it wasn't an issue and was easily attainable.

No, it actually doesn't. you just think it does. You have no idea how easy it is to make a gun do you? Heck, you can 3D print one in less than a day. Who is going to collect those guns you are taking away btw? You?

There won't be an immediate impact obviously. We'll have to combine my plan with other efforts like gun buy-back programs. Get them off the street any way we can. We'll have to get creative.

And I'm not talking about all those guns obtained legally which are sitting in your safe. Chances are those will not be touched as long as you remain a law-abiding citizen. But the other guns, the ones coming from criminals who were arrested, charged, and convicted, will now be destroyed. And yes, that includes your guns obtained legally if you're convicted of a crime as well.

Over time, this plan might work. Combined with other programs.

I think it would take as much time to have an impact as any other plan or legislation. Even a complete ban like other countries have done take time.

Tell that to the countless people that have suffered this scenario.

You think that lots of times home invaders scout out a home before invading it? Where do you get this data from? Is it from the numerous home invasions you've had experience with?

That is a ridiculously false statement.

And I'm truly glad you didn't blow your own head off knowing where the gun in the house was when you were a kid, with it being easily obtainable. So many other kids manage to find it and have accidents.

I would like for you to 3D print me a gun today. Since it's so easy. This actually has me laughing out loud, quite literally.

Go out and buy yourself a 3D printer and make me a gun.

And no, I won't be taking away the guns from the criminals to be destroyed. That'll be the cops. See when you're arrested, your firearms will be seized and put in lockup. When you're convicted and put in jail, those firearms will be destroyed. It's quite simple.

I'm pretty sure it's countable.

Countless implies too many to count. Which is wrong.

Keep Laughing buttercup:

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Joint Regional Intelligence Center released a memo stating "Significant advances in three-dimensional (3D) printing capabilities, availability of free digital 3D printer files for firearms components, and difficulty regulating file sharing may present public safety risks from unqualified gun seekers who obtain or manufacture 3D printed guns," and that "proposed legislation to ban 3D printing of weapons may deter, but cannot completely prevent their production. Even if the practice is prohibited by new legislation, online distribution of these digital files will be as difficult to control as any other illegally traded music, movie or software files."[13]

Link

The fact that they are illegal to produce shows how little we care for the 2nd amendment btw

You see, those of us responsible enough to learn about firearms, train with firearms, and actually respect firearms - teach children about them.

Millions of children hunt and have access to firearms, its the ones that are not trained, and not taught how to handle them that have the accidents.

I grew up in a hunting community. My older brothers had shotguns in their cars and took them to school. Teachers would go hunt with students. We had a firearm under the coffee table loaded at all times. A firearm is only as dangerous as the person using it, you know that right?

How do you get through the day with your heart bleeding all the time.

No, it only shows how little gun laws effect those not willing to follow them.

lol one doesn't invalidate the other.

Lets get one thing straight: (Not intended for you mac)

the right to own a gun is NOT given by government, it is a God given RIGHT. EVERY American born in this country is born with the right to own a weapon. Infact, the entire Bill of Rights are those God given rights spelled out that every American is given by God at birth.

Now with that out of the way:

The ownership of weapons is necessary to a free society. Our system of freedoms and government does NOT work without armed citizens. They are the backbone of America.Our military makes up less then 20% of our total defense in this country.

https://www.ammoland.com/2015/08/largest-standing-army-in-the-world/



12.7 million armed men and woman are a BIG deterrent to foreign nations that would dare try to invade this country. Your living in a dream world if you think our military is the only thing keeping other countries from invading us...,a nations military can be planned for, scouted, worked around...12.7 million armed citizens is a whole different matter entirely....

The right to own weapons is the main reason the USA has not had a foreign invasions since 1812...if you take way peoples guns, the United States has enough Oil, Natural Gas, Gold, Silver, etc that other nations will invade us knowing the citzens are unarmed and they will gang up on us and simply outlast our military...

12.7 million armed Americans means THE ENTIRE WORLD would have to gang up on us at once to defeat us...take away our guns? Russia and China could do it on their own.

thankfully our government and the guys in the Joints Chief of Staff are not stupid enough to disarm one of their most valuable defense assets...that of the American citizen.

As long as foreign nations exist, and as long as we value freedom...the armed American citizen will be necessary...

PS: NFL Safety Sean Taylor was the victim of a home invasion...had he had a gun instead of a Machette he would probably still be alive today, instead he was a victim and shot in his own home.

I sleep with a loaded 45 next to my bed, and can produce a loaded 12 gauge pump Mossberg in less then a minutes notice....I won't be a victim...thats for damn sure.

I haven't done so yet, but I plan on researching statistics of gun accidents in the home vs home invasions.

And like I said, I'm glad you didn't blow your head off. That doesn't change the fact that other kids do.

Or they take the gun to school and shoot other kids. All because they knew exactly where that gun was in the house and it was easily obtainable. And they knew how to shoot it too because daddy believed his kids should be trained with firearms and know exactly how to handle one.

No... god did not give that right to you. Our founding fathers did when they put it in the constitution. Which I would like to have amended. So in effect, it was the government which provided you that right. Not god.

And your government can take it away.

The rest of your post wasn't worth reading after that first paragraph. I'm not big on using propaganda-type graphics and memes to try and make an argument.


But again, regardless, my plan is not calling for a ban. I'm compromising and saying that you lose your right to own a gun once convicted of a crime and sentenced to time. Your guns are then destroyed.

Oh and I believe the UK, Japan, Norway, and Australia all have much stricter regulations on guns, even bans on guns, with very successful results. And all have much the same freedoms and governments we do.

You're just too 'Merika to see it.

Good luck with your militia minute-man.

That's "Murica".

My bad. Normally I say "America RA RA cheerleader BS".

To which is then followed up with "Since you hate America so much you can just get out."

And I find that to be funny. Can you imagine where we'd be if our forefathers followed that advice? Women wouldn't have the vote. There would have never been civil rights.

Our nation only gets better when people fight to make it better instead of running.

Yeah, and if women had taken that advice and left, that would suck. I'm rather fond of women.

I agree with you. You fight to change the things you believe in. Clearly things aren't working so well for our country right now, and I would like to change those things. Any plan I create is going to have it's flaws, as I'm not perfect. But it opens a discussion.

This article here lays out what other countries like the UK, Japan, Norway, and Australia have done for gun control.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...s-a8216301.html

It's worth a read. Whether you agree or not.

I just can’t imagine living in so much fear I’d need to be strapped all the time. Home invasions? Where do you live that this is so prevelant you feel the need to sleep with a 45 on your pillow? Move for crying out loud. Could you imagine living in constant fear of your home being invaded by armed bandits? It must be exhausting.
I’m a gun owner. I also understand that the likelihood of my front door being kicked in by ski masked thugs is so infinitesimally small that carting a gun around with me in the kitchen would be like me bringing my own life vest every time I flew to Maui. You know, in case the plane goes down in the middle of the ocean and I’m separated from my seat cushion.

I agree Portland.. had this conversation before and the answer I always get is that they aren't in fear BECAUSE they have a gun on them.. which implies they would be in fear without it..

I don't understand the need to have a pistol on you when you go to Target at 3:00 on a Saturday afternoon... I don't look at everybody else as a potential criminal just looking for the opportunity..

If I see somebody out in town with a gun strapped on their hip, it's not like it bothers me.. but it's not like it makes me really feel any safer either...

We're never going to agree on gun control. I do realize that gun owners will end up having to make some concessions. I also understand and have seen what other countries have done.

But I'm simply not a person who fits into the box of having a political party or follow along a party line. I'm also not someone who begrudges others of having a differing view. I tend to give what I get.

While we may disagree you seem to be pretty civil with your tone. Some posters here? Not so much. So as long as you approach me in a civil manner I will reciprocate in kind.

I would have to go with a saying that has served me well. Whether it applies to work, vacations or about anything else in my life.

"It's better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it."

And honestly, where I live I rarely carry a gun. I understand people who do, but I'm just not in a situation where I feel a need to carry one very often.

hahaha, ok. Wanna take a little extra research. Most school shootings are not by kids.

the kids that do accidently shoot themselves too, are typically because the FIND a gun, have never seen one or held one, and are curious of the gun.

There is a reason that in Europe they don't have drunk driving like we do. Or teen alcohol deaths like we do. Children are allowed to drink wine at a very early age in some countries over there. You don't think having knowledge and use of alcohol takes away the stymie of it? thus making it less a big deal to binge drink?

The kids aint shooting up the schools because tey know were a gun is BTW, they are shooting up the schools because they are bullied beyond belief, and your left wing every kid is special policies don't allow the schools identify the mentally ill kids, or do anything about it.

I'm not sure advocating that children drink alcohol is going to bolster your side of the debate.

If God gave a gun to every black baby at birth... we'd finally get gun control from the GOP.

Did I already say you were funny? I think so. But let me reiterate it. You're hilarious. Where do you get your research? Especially about Europe. What in the world do you know about Europe?

Anytime I bring up how Europe handles gun control, you blast me saying that won't work here. So funny. I'll tell ya what, lets let our kids drink at an early age and adapt the UK's regulations on gun control too. Fair?

And you've got the mentally ill thing backwards. It's us "Bleeding hearts" that want to get the mentally ill the care they need. This is done with guidance counselours and teachers in school who can have informative conversations with parents to get their child the help they need. I've had experience with this. Have you? Where's your knowledge come from? Fox News probably.

It's not my side who wants to list mental health as a pre-existing condition to deny coverage. It's not my side that thinks mental illness can be treated with puppies and walks outside.

And bullying is a huge problem! I applaud any program to help stop this in school and society. But do you think there's bullying in other nations? Yep. Where are their school shootings?

I almost always try to be calm and civil. I haven't always done so, but in those occasions I have apologized.

What did Wyatt Earp do in Dodge City and Tombstone when shootings got out of hand?

He banned guns from city limits. How did he get those guns? He took them. And people felt safe, law was upheld, cities prospered.

Seems like a pretty smart man to me.

No, The right to own a weapon(if you can afford or have the means to get one) is a God Given Right...its very obvious you have never read the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers, or The Law of Nations by Emerich de Vattel published in 1758 which is what our Constitution was based on. Did you know George Washington had an overdue by 221 years...guess what the title of that book was...Law of Nations by Vattel

The Founders understood from the get go that the right to own a weapon was one of the God given rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Infact, there was even debate at the Constitutional Convention to even include those God given rights(the Bill of Rights) because those rights were universally understood by everyone alive back then that they were inalienable, born with, and not able to be infringed, they ended up including them anyway for future generations.

Lets be clear here, I never said you had to given everyone a gun at birth, I said a person who has the means(cash, resources, etc) has the God given right to own a gun.

I can't even believe this is even debated. As far back as the Magna Carta and King John its instilled in English Common Law that each man was responsible to arm themselves as best they could to their ability to defend the Crown at any time...came in really useful against the Vikings...The American Constitution and our court law is based and inspired heavily on common law....how is this even debateable?

You will never get the 2nd amendment changed, even 100 years from now the 2nd amendment will stand...as long as freedom reigns supreme the 2nd amendment will stand the test of time...there isn't a flies chance any amendement to change that passes...there is 12.7 + million American Hunters and gun owners that will never vote for that...there is enough restrictions on getting guns as it is...and what have they done to stop anything? Nothing...

All your plan does is take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens and leave them at mercy of criminals who don't follow such laws and will have weapons anyways.

Regardless of what faith you believe in, The Founders of this country stated numerous times that owning a gun is a God given right....This is stated numerous times in all their writings and letters and reflected in the Constitution.

Im telling you, they will never repel the 2nd amendment, that would end up causing an uprising the likes of what hasn't been seen since the 1860's...its not going to happen.

Besides, our government relies on us being armed too much, it gives them leeway other nations don't have in terms of where to put troops at, etc...do you really think any other nation could get by on National Defense with the amount of troops we leave at home? We have our 200+ military bases around the world, most of our active military is not in the USA...we rely on armed citzens for our national defense far more then you think....changing rhe 2nd amendment just simply isn't going to happen...

Wouldn’t a God given right be found in the Bible?
Maybe it’s in Two Corinthians and I missed it.
‘And thou shall arm theyself to the teeth and feareth thine neighbor. So sayeth the Lord.’

We all should go to the range together so I can show you guys my S&W .44 Cheek Turner.