DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft So.. Draft is over and UDFA's are here.. whats the grade for Dorsey?

The most general response repeated countless times over the years by more coaches and GM's then I care to recall has been "best player available for our team"

If anyone genuinely thinks they don't mean "fills a need" by that statement (in addition to scheme fit) than I don't know how to convince you otherwise. I doubt many who've been in the league long would ever say "we drafted for need" with how generally poorly that is looked upon by media and fans, but it is still the nature of the beast.

THROW LONG had a thread "What will happen" where everyone took their shot at predicting the first 4 picks. Here was mine;

1. Darnold
2. No clue (QB, Chubb, Nelson, Barkley, Trade)
3. Mayfield
4. Ward or Trade to target Ward

The one thing I got right was Ward. My reasoning was that Ward was in for visits twice, Dorsey and Williams covet man CB with speed and ball skills, and in the video series "Building the Browns" there was a clip of a Browns scout greeting Ward at the OSU pro day and they greeted each other like old friends. That told me they were concentrating on Ward. Add to that I think Chubb and Ogbah are roughly equal so that adding Chubb didn't improve the starting DE as much as provide depth at an already strong position. It all made sense to me that Ward was our guy all along.

I also think they tried to do a short trade down thinking that Ward would still be there, but couldn't get a deal they liked, so they just took their guy.

Now, to grades

Mayfield - B+ (still stinging from not getting Darnold)
Ward - A (they got the guy they wanted)
Corbett - B- (he's a good player, but not sure how he fits)
Chubb - A (good pick, Penny was my guy here, but he was gone)
C Thomas - B (improved depth at DE)
Callaway - C (going with FL here, steal of the draft or a bust, split the diff)
Avery - A (good 5th round pick)
Ratley - B (don't really know him, decent 6th round flier)
S Thomas - C (think they wanted Nelson, this was a fall back pick)

It has stood (Proven) the test of time.



This has Proven to be flawed thinking.

And Denver has Von Miller.

So, grades then:

Baker Mayfield- B+ ; My QB "1b" from the time this madness started. I originally thought "If you don't grade a QB higher than Baker, then take Baker with the second 1st round pick." Admittedly, that was when I was assuming Houston's pick would be in the 10-12 range but they continued to bomb. Still have to give it close to an A-range grade since Baker proved the media and their never-ending second round grades on him wrong.

Denzel Ward- B- ; without question the best CB in the draft and definitely a position of need, but I don't grade like the internet. He was guaranteed to be there so this cannot be much higher than above average. You should see my grades of the Steelers' ...errr...draft...anyway...

Austin Corbett- B-; Once again, a player who should have been taken in the top 40 and was, but not a LT. I believe they will try him out there but ultimately he does not have the kick and foot speed to man the spot. Then again, Chris Hubbard is an undersized swing tackle and Coleman is still developing himself, so...an "above average" bump for need regardless of eventual position.

Nick Chubb- B+- Again, no "A" here because he was expected to go in the 2nd round. However, a big above average jump as he can run between the tackles and is an ideal pairing with Duke. Better speed and vision than Crowell.

Chad Tomas- D+- Yes he can kick inside on passing downs but his pass rush is only nominal and his motor is idling. I know I'm not a scout but he was a 4th round rotational base/goal line end at best. Over-drafted a full round in my humblest of opinions. Top 70? Not good enough.

Antonio Callaway- C+- Risk definitely outweighs reward, but with so much risk, not by much. Admittedly, I feel Kiper's grade of a round one talent is overblown as Callaway does have consistency issues with catching a ball that's not within 1 foot of his chest, but he does have the lightning-in-a-bottle capacity.

Genard Avery- A+- A possible top 100 type talent in round 5. Value: A+. Consistency issues with our LB corps and two highly paid linebackers? One linebacker coming back from injury? A comical lack of depth at the position? You get the point. Need: A+. Whether or not he develops...

Damion Ratley- C-- He came on quite strong for the Aggies for a minute there, but has no real production beyond a month and a half stretch just in time for scouts who weren't there to see him to notice. A late round grade and that's where he went. Not good value, just bleh... have to keep him below average

Simeon Thomas- D+- I like the athleticism. I like that for a brief flash he showed true NFL potential, but I don't like much else. He was a late 7th/ priority free agent kind of guy. There has to have been someone who was looking to trade up for this pick to at least give us a 6th next year plus the late 7th this year it should have cost to draft him.

I guess a 10-7-5-4-3-2-1 weighted scale ( I lost y'all there, didn't I?) would leave Cleveland at a strong B. I like the Avery pick just enough to soften the Thomas surprise and the Callaway concerns.

Wow. When did Miller switch position? That's B.I.G news right there.

I go with the solid B range.

Hard to grade these drafts immediately, but I did like the way they went.

Mayfield: A little surprised at the pick, I really thought they were going to pick between Darnold and Rosen. It seems like the Browns weren't the only team that had Mayfield ranked at the top of their board. There is a rumor the Jets had him as their top player, and the Rams coach was on record saying he would have sold the farm to get him if he wasn't satisfie with Goff.... I do love Mayfield's growth from 2 seasons ago to his last season at Oklahoma. He got better as a pocket qb, which is great to see. The guy has a gigantic chip on his shoulder, and plays like it. If Cleveland is patient with him, they will LOVE the guy.

Surprised they did not take Chubb at 4, but I can't argue against secondary help, because we are horrible, and Denzel Ward is a great prospect. I have no issue there. I do hope at this time next year, with some improvements to the team, and Mayfield hopefully putting an end to the QB question, we can maybe focus our top pick on another great pass rusher to make a terrifying defense.

I also think Mayfield could sit for the whole year, and most would be ok with it. I think Tyrod Taylor is a guy fans shouldn't sleep on. I think he is one of the few guys who could handle the adversity that comes with being the Browns QB.

Love the pick of Corbett. Haven't really seen him play much, but we need all the OL help we can get, and I feel like this thing worked out perfectly. On top of that, they end up with Nick Chubb, giving us really nice depth at RB.

Not crazy about Chad Thomas. I think we probably could have gotten another good player at that pick. Watched a few Miami games last year and didn't really notice him much.

Taking Callaway is a ballsy move. A lot of people were saying he was first round talent, but the off the field stuff kept him out. I love the AB comparisons. Hope this guy comes in with a good head on his shoulders, because he's really talented.

Don't really know much about the other guys, but I hope this is the draft we look at 5 years from now as the one that turned it all around.

FYI...Chubb will play OLB in Denver's 3-4 defense.

If Keebler turns out to be our franchise QB for the next 15 years and has us in playoff contention year after year then the draft was an A+

If he is out of the league in five years while one or more of the other quarterbacks in this draft are succeeding for their respective teams then the draft is an F-.

It pretty much comes down to how the QB position pans out. We won't know that for at LEAST another year as I don't think Mayfield sees the field this year. At least I hope he doesn't. There is no way to know how good or bad this draft was in that regard.

I would add, that the last time a corner was taken as high as #4 overall was twenty years ago, so Ward becoming a pro bowl top of the league corner will tell a lot about this draft too. Jalen Ramsey was taken 5th overall by the Jags so that gives us an idea of how good he needs to be to warrant the pick... Ward will be the player to watch this year. He gets to guard Brown game one... We will see.

Those two picks will make or break this team and will determine if Dorsey is either a hero or a pariah. His career depends on those two guys making good. God, I hope they do! We really need to end the misery of missed picks!

They took the guys they wanted and now the proof will be on the field. Wins mean everything and there are no more excuses not to win. They have the QB room they wanted. They have the players to get the job done. So starting in September we should see winning Browns football. The rebuild is over, for the most part, the staff has been here a while so it is winning time! No more excuses.

I don't get the WARD has to be a Pro Bowler top of the league corner for the pick to be successful. We didn't have the 5th pick or the 6th or the 7th or the TENTH. We picked him where we had to. If Chubb at 5 doesn't make multiple Pro Bowls was that a bad pick too ? We had and have a lot more quality at DE than we did CB and it was a logical pick. No matter WHERE we had to take him.

Ok, so I see Mayfield as the second best option..

Ward was a solid pick..

Corbett was a contrarian pick when compared to the more obvious selection of C. Williams.

Chubb was a logical choice given what was available and what was likely to be available at 64..

Chad Thomas was a reach at this point. Not a lot of mentions, so not as bad as John Hughes, but a reach at this point.

Callaway, I thought was a round early for a risky pick. I also think we were trying to get in front of Cincinnati.

Avery was a solid choice. I remember Mayock making a mention of him a few minutes before he was selected, and how much he liked him..

Ratley... we will see.. I hope he has better hands..

Thomas was the first if many that appear to have ability with a checkered past the necessitated a downward change in schools.

B, not what I would have done, but I will be optimistic..

Final draft grades cannot be graded until the players drafted reach their 2nd contract but the initial grades I would give for each selection.

#1 Baker Mayfield - F. I see Mayfield's talent on par with Johnny Manziel and Colt McCoy. Teams just do not spend #1 overall draft picks on sub 6'2 QB's. I just feel that #1 overall picks should be pro typical style QB's like Darnold/Rosen/ or even Allen for that matter. Not short project QB's.

#4 Denzel Ward - B. As a corner Ward is a good pick, best corner in the draft. Very fast, ran a 4.3 40 at the combine. That speed will be a welcome addition to the secondary. I only give the pick a B because in round 1 teams should take best players available and not need. Taking Ward they passed on Bradley Chubb one of the best overall talents in the draft.

#33 Austin Corbitt - C-. The Browns selected him to possibly play tackle when most talent scouts say he is best suited to play inside. If he does not make it at tackle the very next pick Will Hernandez was selected and he is a much better guard than Corbitt. I hate picking a player for versatility inside of just taking a solid player at a position.

#35 Nick Chubb - A. Best pick in the draft. Chubb had a very productive college career and had very good combine. 4.52 40 with 29 reps on the bench press. Chubb is a good between the tackles runner with enough speed to bounce outside at times. He is the type of back that has had success here in Cleveland in the mold of a Kevin Mack and Leroy Hoard.

#67 Chad Thomas - B-. Is a solid built and athletic DE.Has potential as a pass rusher and can play the run well. Needs a better motor in the NFL than what he had in college. He would be dominate in games and then disappear in others. That is his only knock.

#105 Antonio Callaway - A-. If not for off the field issues Callaway would have been a 1st or 2nd round pick. He has the potential to be an All Star receiver if he can put his past behind him and just play football.

#150 Genard Avery - A-. Another very solid pick. Can play multiple positions as a linebacker. He has the physicality to be a solid Mike vs running teams and pass rushing ability to play the Sam linebacker. The 5th round is a good spot to draft versatile players.

#175 Damion Ratley - B+. Ratley is a big receiver but still fairly raw. Has a large catch radius and 4.45 speed for a 6'3 receiver. Needs to learn all the routes since he did not run all routes at a&m.

#188 Simeon Thomas - B+. Thomas is another versatile player that can play corner and safety. He brings good size to the secondary and has some production in college leading his Louisiana Lafayette team in pass break ups the last 2 years. He also has some off the field issues that scar the selection.

I think the Browns reached at the top of the draft and tried to attempt to out smart the league and take players well before they were slotted or they went against conventional wisdom. But, later in the draft they took players with huge upside and got what looks like very good value. I would give Dorsey a D for the draft overall because with 2 picks in the top 4 he could have had a pro typical QB (Darnold/Rosen) and 1 of either the 2 consensus best players in the draft (Barkley/Chubb) and did not get any of them. The draft was set up for them to make a huge statement and it quickly became a huge let down.

The true grade for this draft won't be known for a couple of years, but...

Although for the most I like most of the players that we drafted, I felt that we reached with almost every pick.

I'd give us a C at this point with the hope that Dorsey knows something about each player that other teams didn't.

Grade - I

Incomplete. Will update in 3 years.

I'm very happy with Mayfield. Happy with Ward.

After that there are a lot of talented prospects that I have no idea about.

I'd give it a B- mostly for not manipulating the board a bit more. Not sure if the trades weren't there or if having to trade down too far for the players they had valued.

I think anytime you go QB in the first round there is a bit of a gamble (so it's hard for me to give teams an A) so regardless of who they picked, there is uncertainty there but as MOST analysts said, of all the QBs picked, Mayfield has on paper the best situation to walk into in terms of talent at OLINE and skill positions.

In terms of Corbett, the math is simple...he either wins LT job at some point this year, he takes over for Tretter (a lot of scouts said he can play center and did so in the Senior Bowl practices) or Zeitler is looking for new team in 2019.

I would have been happy with any of the running backs left on the board so if they value Chubb that highly, I'm good with it.

Didn't like Chad Thomas pick or last two picks especially with some of the guys left on the board. I love Avery and the Calloway pick is extremely risky. Ward needs to be a pro bowl CB within 2-3 years.

It becomes an A in 2-3 years if Mayfield develops into top 15 QB, Ward is pro bowler and Chubb is significant contributor.

Ward is the guy that MUST turn into a Pro Bowl type talent. If he's anything short of that, it's a bad selection

I might not call it a bad selection if he is a little short of pro-bowl, but no doubt he needs be able to stand on the island and show up.

Read the SI article on the Browns draft .. the Ward pick is explained. It involved being very high on Ward and Ogbah. They felt if the Browns had cover corners last year, that Garret and Ogbah would have had many more sacks.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/30/baker-mayfield-cleveland-browns-draft-mmqb-peter-king

Thanks. I also found it cool how Dorsey listed the 4 QBs

What?! Garrett and Ogbah? And I thought we didn't have any real players on this team?

Aren't I supposed to refer to someone's sig on here for the 1000 time?

I think Dorsey has a very weird concept on what real players are, and look like...

How can anyone think for a minute that adding Tyrod, Landry and Hyde will make us competitive....

Not impressed really. On paper our O isn't that much better than it was this past 2 seasons.

Though we can't judge this draft for a few years, I think we did ok, especially in the later rounds. People hating on Mayfield. Majority of the NFL GMs must be crazy since its come out that majority of GM's had Mayfield as the number 1 QB. People who say he's JFF show how little they know about football and just have mob mentality. There is nothing about their games that are similar other than they are mobile, which actually Mayfield is much better throwing on the run. He has the tools, he's got playmakers. The question is the line, I'd venture to say it'll be priority to get an LT next season somehow. The reach for me was Ward, we could have traded down to 10-12 and still picked him. But he's who we wanted. My two fav picks are Avery and Callaway. Callaway is better than Coleman if he's out of his immature phase and ready to work. Given he just became a father, I would like to think he is. He an Avery were picked way past where they should have been based on talent

Problem is that doing OK is not enough. Doing Ok is what we have been doing the past drafts, leading to a team full of no names average players.

Imagine what we could have been if we,for example, had traded the #1 and #4 for OBJ and Nick Foles...

Without seeing how these guys pan out, Id give this draft a B-.

I like Nick Chubb and I love Ward. The tackle and the D end we took are very sketchy picks.

While true, I think the difference here is the people making the picks have a much better track record than who've we have had before. Thats why I think they deserve benefit of the doubt and a wait and see before we can truly judge.

I can give you that, but the thing is that this has been the excuse for all our drafts....

I expected a run of the mill, no surprises draft. I would even be on board if we traded the 4th this time.

Saquan, Rosen, Darnold, Chubb... That's all we needed from the draft board in the 1st round.

i agree with that, I would have rather traded down from 4 instead of taking ward. That was a reach I think, or I would have taken Chubb at 4 and jackson at 33 or something like that

Actually, no we couldn't have.

1) There were teams high on Ward, Denver and Tampa included.

2) You need a trade partner. There weren't any teams within the next 10 picks who wanted to trade up with the Browns and make it worth while.


I'm not saying I'd make the same pick, but to say we could trade back and still get Ward is incredibly shortsighted.

If you can't trade out of the #4, then you draft Saquan 1st and Mayfield @4

We've already established that Mayfield wouldn't make it to 4 (maybe not even to 3 based on rumors with NYG/NJY)

If we really wanted to maximize picks, taking Mayfield at 1, Chubb at 4, the best CB at 33 and Chubb at 35 is probably the way to do it

Listening to Grossi on 850AM. . . Sure he's not a great source and has written some spurious stuff. But I figure he does hear some of the insider stuff that we have no clue about - whether its through a source or 2nd hand.

On Mayfield - he said the whiteboard stuff blew the FO away, he handled that better than any QB in this class and was as impressive as any QB draft prospect from any year. He also said Darnold was not so impressive on the Whiteboard.

On Chubb - said the Browns FO did not have him rated "that high" as a pass rusher. I guess the implication was that they rated him highly - but not as highly as others as an out an out edge rusher ....

On Barklay he said the Browns probably wouldn't have taken him at #4 if available - he said Barklay isn't a great fit for what the FO want to do at RB.

Take it for what it's worth. Another review of the Browns draft here: https://www.themaven.net/nfldraftscout/news/rang-grading-the-afc-dUQ-l8Y140WAIV-uOSTeyw/

Cleveland Browns

It takes bold moves to turn around a franchise with the losing streak Cleveland has endured and that is precisely what general manager John Dorsey and his staff provided, nabbing lightning rod quarterback Baker Mayfield at No. 1 overall and then this draft's premier cover corner, Denzel Ward at No. 4. Neither measures big in size, but as playmakers they are both huge. Nevada tough guy Austin Corbett was asked to slide inside to guard at the Senior Bowl but he starred at left tackle for the Wolfpack (like Joel Bitonio) and might get a chance to stay outside in Cleveland. Regardless of his ultimate position, Corbett has the build and makeup of a longtime NFL starter, as does Georgia running back Nick Chubb, who may very well push free-agent addition Carlos Hyde aside as the Browns' featured back. A very good draft could prove great if Miami defensive end Chad Thomas and Florida receiver Antonio Callaway can focus on football. Callaway reminds me a lot of Tyreek Hill, who overcame off-field issues to emerge as one of the most dangerous all-purpose players in the NFL for the Chiefs after Dorsey selected him in the fifth round two years ago.

Grade: A

This thread gets an F.

Only we were stupid enough to draft Mayfield, us and maybe the Bills...

Actually if Mayfield was picked before that would be a blessing...

We fired a GM because he passed on Deshaun, but hired one that preferred Mahomes to him...

Dorsey is a smart ass

Wow. Still throwing your toys out of the pram. Still totally convinced you know more than Dorsey. Everything I see makes me pretty convinced you want to be right more than root for the kid you didn't want.

Well, so far I have been right most of the times.

Dorsey is the next on the line of smart asses that make what is easy hard, that's the problem with the Browns..

Making easy stuff look hard, and hard stuff impossible

All of this sounds fantastic. They had exactly the same opinion on Chubb as I did. Like him, don't love him.

and by Barkley not being a fit, they probably mean, we aren't going to give a rookie running back the 2nd most guaranteed money in the history of running backs.

This sort of confirms what I've heard about Mayfield. The word was that he was a white-board savant and knew his stuff inside and out. Watch the session he had with Steve Mariucci he you'll get a peek of his football intelligence. It reminded me of when I watched Carson Wentz go through a whiteboard session. Couple that with his accuracy and leadership, and you could see why he was hard to pass on. Those are the three things you really want out of a QB.

I think there was a good chance they may have took Barkley at #4 if he was still on the board.

Plan B could have been Ward knowing Nick Chubb would most likely still be there in the second rd.

Not at all. He's a football guy and he likes BM. Thinks he's the best QB in the class. You don't. It's as simple as that.