DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Browns select Denzel Ward with the fourth overall pick

Take it for what you will. Honestly, I've long run out of "I don't hate (x player) I just don't think he's a good (x job description)" arguments. You hate the guys. Own it.

It's hard for the pass rush to be there when the team missed both starting DEs for an extended period of time.

Garrett and Ogbah only got four games together. They had an impressive six sacks combined in those games. That's a combined 24 sacks if we extrapolate on the season.

That's as two very young players, one of whom clearly wasn't even 80% healthy.

It's way too early to be desperately wanting to replace the #1 and #32 picks within two years of their arrival. Garrett had a really nice rookie season and Ogbah was on pace to beat his rookie production in spite of missing his helper on the other side.

That's even more impressive when you add in our inability to cover which buys zero time for the rush.

And, again, Chubb wasn't an elite prospect. I don't get why people are so in love with him that they're throwing Ogbah and Garrett under the bus.

We should be excited for these kids. Big things are coming now that we've finally got a secondary.

He had Peppers so deep and the Cb's with so much cushion because GW is an idiot.

We couldn't even defend a screen....

How can you dial so many blitzes with that amount of cushion to the Wr's..

I can't believe this was even posted on a football message board. In case anyone missed it, there's the front seven and then there's the secondary. Our secondary was so poor on talent we couldn't cover a wet blanket laying on the field. In case anyone missed it GW had to go to the well in the FA market and the #4 pick in the draft just to make it competitive.

You do realize that if you don't blitz, that gives the opposing QB even MORE time to pick apart a weak azz secondary, right?

It never ceases to amaze me how so many can't see the forest for the trees.

So you claim. If we had the talent, why all of the FA signings and the #4 pick in the draft? The design of the D last year was based on the personnel. And it was ugly. You can't play players you don't have.

There isn't a myth about shutdown corners existing. What you have is the NFL changing the rules to give WR's a huge advantage. That doesn't stop GM's from drafting what they evaluate as elite CB's.
I forget the CB that was drafted but the write up on the TV screen said he was "grabby" in man coverage, which, as the analyst said ,won't work in the NFL because of the rules.

FL Dawg, I might agree that Chubb maybe the best pass-rusher in the draft as I had him mocked @4, I would have taken Josh Jackson with the second round pick.
But I think the Browns reasoning was they have drafted a bunch of DE's.
My counter is how good are they???

First don't label anything on me that I did not say.
Where did I say I wanted to replace Ogbah?
Oh yeah, I didn't.

I speak about what I see and don't see and the Browns still don't have a strong pass rush.
Want to deny that ?

I get all that about injuries, it's not like I just started watching football.

But when you have quality depth ,injuries don't handcuff you.
You add Chubb and you can rotate these guys all over the LOS.

Save the "desperate" for someone who actually said that.
I maintain you can never have enough good pass rushers/CB's.

" FL Dawg, I might agree that Chubb maybe the best pass-rusher in the draft as I had him mocked @4, I would have taken Josh Jackson with the second round pick."

This is were I was at in the draft .. QB , Chubb , Jackson .

@BDU Our inability to cover was by design.

CB's played with cushions that made for easy completions, and to top that we could not defend the screen pass.

Our Cb's were not that good, I agree, but it could be improved through FA and latter round picks.

GW D sucked, and never lived up to he talent he had. IMHO, most of the problems came from coaching, not players.

I was too ... Even if we passed on Jackson and still take Corbett I would have been okay with that.

Not drafting a CB would not have been the end of the world.

We failed to address the FS position and the sky has yet to fall...lol

I love how some are trying to devalue Chubb now ... That is soooo covenant.

He will be a very good player for Denver as an OLB in their 34, but in a 43 he would have been better.

Anyway I am not buying the crap some are trying to sell on Chubb ... the FO included.

This will be a stain on this draft, to go along with the merid of others in the past.

So you want to draft a pass rusher with the #4 pick to not replace Ogbah/Garrett? That might be worse. You're either pushing Ogbah to the bench (Ya know, replacing him) or drafting someone top 5 to sit. Neither actually makes sense.

What part of using a top 5 selecting isn't replacement?



I... literally just did deny that. Like, that entire post was literally dedicated to denying that.

This, today, from Gregg Williams, via Peter King:

"I’ve got a video of 28 snaps of Myles Garrett pass-rushes last year where he gets within two steps or less of the quarterback when the ball comes out. Basically, we aren’t covering long enough to let him get to the quarterback. Myles and others—especially [defensive end] Emmanuel Ogbah—will get more chances because of Denzel.” Ogbah, Williams said, was a major reason why the Browns went Ward over Chubb. “Ogbah’s a rising star in this league,” Williams said. “He’s got a chance to be Chubb.” High praise."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/30/baker-mayfield-cleveland-browns-draft-mmqb-peter-king

So, yeah, I want to deny it again. I am denying it. We clear on that now? So is Gregg Williams.




I decline to comment on this.



Agreed regarding depth, but you don't draft depth using the damn fourth overall selection.

Disagreed regarding the rotation. This idea that Ogbah/Garrett/Chubb should consistently be playing inside is faulty logic. The selection of Chubb would handcuff the Browns offense, unless Garrett/Ogbah got replaced, so you're advocating....



You're crying about it days later and complaining the pass rush isn't good enough. That's desperate.

Agreed you can never have enough good players - which is why we took a good corner when we've already got two good pass rushers; I ain't the one working so hard to deny that.

Do you understand how DC's scheme their defenses when they have a abundance of talent?
Why be so hard about Oggah if they would have drafted Chubb? I wouldn't have been.
Ogbah wouldn't in on every play anyway.
You can plug these guys inside and in combination .
Why is that hard to understand?
Oh BTW I'm not really concerned with anything Mr.Comegetsome has to utter.
The fact that he actually played his FS 20 yards out of camera shot is enough for me.
I am not inmpressed with anything he has to say unless it's actually factual.

You can go ahead and check out the Chubb thread prior to the draft if you want to see the same exact take I've been giving here. In fact I was probably hedging toward being nice because I thought he was going to be our pick.

FS was addressed. Randall was a top FS pick coming out of college. They moved him to corner.

I do understand, it's you who is struggling. None of those guys could consistently play the interior. At best, that would be a situational sub-package like that which we saw on Garrett's first sack against the Jets. It is not something that would ever be used consistently enough to justify such high selections at the DE spot. The #1, #4 and #32 picks within three drafts is just over the top.

Face it, if the Browns used the #4 on Chubb, Garrett or Ogbah would be benched for most of the game. There is no NFL reality in which all three consistently get on the field.

Dismissing what Williams had to say removes any shred of doubt - You're a hater. There were too many instances in which the coverage created a throw far too quickly and it cost the team sacks. Ogbah isn't the kind of guy you want sitting on the bench. I don't think the coaches love this guy just because he's got a nice smile.

They'd didn't flippantly skip on Chubb. They did so because they love the existing talent.

"Randall is what today's free safety is all about. He is by far the best cover safety in this draft. Randall can play man-to-man; he has cornerback-level cover skills. You give up some physicality, but his coverage ability is where the NFL is going. Remember Jimmie Ward was a first-rounder last year (to the 49ers) with a similar skill set." -- Mike Mayock

The team has literally said that Randall is going to play free safety.

That was never in question. It was in the context of the Draft.

Why would we need to address a position in the draft if the position was already addressed through trade?

“Ward. The reason is our need for a press cover cornerback. Denzel probably plays that position as well as anyone I’ve seen in college football in some time. We probably play the most press of any team in the league. There’s another reason. I’ve got a video of 28 snaps of Myles Garrett pass-rushes last year where he gets within two steps or less of the quarterback when the ball comes out. Basically, we aren’t covering long enough to let him get to the quarterback. Myles and others—especially [defensive end] Emmanuel Ogbah—will get more chances because of Denzel.”

Do you understand how DC's scheme their defenses when they have a abundance of talent?
Why be so hard about Oggah if they would have drafted Chubb? I wouldn't have been.
Ogbah wouldn't in on every play anyway.
You can plug these guys inside and in combination .
Why is that hard to understand?
Oh BTW I'm not really concerned with anything Mr.Comegetsome has to utter.
The fact that he actually played his FS 20 yards out of camera shot is enough for me.
I am not inmpressed with anything he has to say unless it's actually factual.

Carrie and Ward outside. Gaines in the slot, I would think.

Late to the party but C'mon man.

Chubb at 4 would've been superb. But with what Williams HAD to do last year throwing a Peppers into a FS spot was INSANE.

He knows Damn well Peppers isn't a FS type. HE HAD TO DO IT. McCourty and Taylor SUCKED. We had NOTHING even smelly close to a FS.

Therefore the option was Peppers and put him DEEP near the 400 foot Center Field Wall.

It changes now. For multiple reasons.

That Mr. Comegetmesome comment is WAY OFF BASE.

If he does it again this year, then Williams will be tarred and feathered. And he'll DESERVE it.

We'll see an entirely different Defense this year.

Should have a solid front 4 as well. I thought for sure we take Chubb but I might have done the same thing, Kid has great hips and really plays with nose over toes. Potential is there to be the next elite Corner.

I'm a little late to the party, but I just got back into internet, so now I can post.


I've listened to interviews and such, so I understand why Dorsey took Ward. I'd still have taken Chubb. They're both quality players, but I feel that Chubb just has a bigger impact.

Give me a quality DE over a quality CB any day of the week. Chubb would help with the run game and the pass game. Very complete player.


But, alas, we cannot get everything we want. I was ABA, and Mayfield was my number two QB (and a highly regarded 2). So drafting him made me feel good about this draft right from the start. And Denzel is a good player. I just had him ranked below Chubb and Minkah (who seemed to fall a bit, so who knows what i know).

But, it sounds like the FO and coaching staff thinks Denzel is filled with potential. Seems like a good character guy too. And, he's ridiculously athletic. I just don't see the attitude that comes with some of the best corners

The browns felt that chubb, is not an ELITE pass rusher. They see him as a 6-10 sacks a year guy, which they already have in Ogbah. They had a need at Corner, and the BPA corner was sitting there waiting for them. The media has been wrong before on players (Chubb).