DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Browns begin study of downtown development that could include new stadium

BEREA, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns have begun long-term discussions about a development project that could include a substantially renovated stadium or a new facility at a different site in downtown Cleveland.

"We’re excited for the opportunity to be part of the conversation about downtown re-development," owner Dee Haslam said. "We should be part of the conversation in a bigger way, and I think we will be."

Speaking in her office at the team’s facility, Haslam said that she and the team are in the earliest stages of learning everything they can about a project that could take a decade or more before it comes to fruition.

The focus would have the Browns taking a larger role in the revival and development of Cleveland. The stadium draws interest, for good reason, but Haslam said the project is wider ranging, in part because she feels it’s time the team was part of Cleveland’s growth. Whether that means developing the area near the existing stadium while renovating it or a new facility in a different spot will be part of the discussion and study.

"The main thing is to start the conversation, at some point," said Haslam, who agreed to the interview after ESPN learned of the talks. "I don’t know that we’re ready to start the conversation, but we are ready to get all the information we can about what’s possible.

"So I think it’s really important to find out what’s possible. There could be a lot of great ideas that we might not be able to do because it’s not feasible for one reason or another. I don’t want to get the horse in front of the cart until we’re knowledgeable enough to know, because we’re not informed enough to know right now.

"But we do know that we have a desire to make a bigger impact on the future of Cleveland."

Haslam said the Browns have spoken informally to city officials and civic leaders about the idea, and received encouraging feedback. She added that because the Browns are not developers, the initial effort is about learning what can be done. The team will consider alternate sites as a matter of course, but feels it’s important to have the development downtown.

"I think it’s great that they are thinking, one, so far out, and two, really thinking broadly about the development of Cleveland," said David Gilbert, president and CEO of the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission. "I think that this approach of thinking very far out and thinking how sports can play a real role in the development of a community, in the physical development, I think it’s great and speaks a lot to their commitment to Cleveland."

Haslam emphasized that the team needs to be proactive in learning about what could be done at any site that could include commercial, residential and retail space. As part of the process, the Browns are conducting an economic impact study with Cleveland State University.

Gilbert pointed to the impact that the Gateway project had in downtown. It took an underused area and developed it around Progressive Field and Quicken Loans Arena.

"Really stepping back and thinking about how and what the development of our lakefront or another site means and how a stadium ties into that, is absolutely the right kind of thinking long-term for the community," Gilbert said.

The team will complete its lease at FirstEnergy Stadium, which runs through 2029. The team would work closely with the city, county and state as talks and a potential project move forward, Haslam said.

Some of the newer stadiums in the league have cost $1 billion or more, though most are following the trend of multi-use facilities with other development included. The Browns realize that questions will be asked about funding, but because they don’t know what the development effort will or could be, they feel it’s premature and almost irrelevant to get into that discussion at this point. In 2015, the Browns completed a two-year, $125 million renovation of FirstEnergy Stadium. The team paid $95 million of that cost.

That renovation was nothing compared with what this long-term project could provide. If the team renovates the existing stadium, it would likely have a completely new feel and look -- with additional development in the area around it if possible.
"I have no idea at this point what’s even feasible," Haslam said. "Don’t you think it’s a good idea for us to learn and figure that out?"

The timing makes sense. Teams have taken 10 or more years to get a project like this off the ground and completed.

At this point, almost anything is under consideration, including putting a roof or dome on the existing or new facility. But to say there are serious talks about an indoor facility would be jumping ahead.

"Those are all the questions that you ask over the next five years," Haslam said. "We are not developers. We don’t know about it. We are in the learning stages of what you would do, so we don’t know. I don’t think anybody has any idea of how that would work. I think it’s way premature to have some of these conversations."

Other ideas would be guesswork, but might include finding a way to better join downtown with the stadium by somehow covering a highway and train tracks just south of the stadium, adding a Browns Hall of Fame or working with others in the community who might be interested in the project. Some of the land north of the stadium is used by the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority, another complicating factor.

Haslam said any decision on the stadium’s long-term future site should not be made by the Browns.

"I really do think that would be a decision by the people of Cleveland and the planners," she said. "I think what we need to do is be part of the conversation."

The project could bring the Browns’ facility into the 21st century, and could potentially be a boon to downtown and the city. FirstEnergy Stadium was completed for the 1999 season. By 2029 it could be one of the league’s oldest facilities.

Including Atlanta, which opened last season, 10 new stadiums have been built since 1999. Six have roofs, either permanent or retractable. Many were built as part of larger developments and to use the stadium for more than home games.


Minnesota’s new stadium has a translucent roof that allows light through to "bring the outside in." Minnesota hosted the Super Bowl in January and will host the Final Four in 2019. Atlanta’s $1.5 billion stadium will host the 2019 Super Bowl.

Haslam emphasized that the team’s immediate emphasis is on (finally) getting a winning team on the field. This project, she said, is part of the future. She recently gave up her role as CEO of RIVR Media, and she and her fellow owner and husband, Jimmy, live in Cleveland year-round.

"We want to do the right thing for the people of Cleveland," she said. "That’s all.

"Like we’ve said before, this team belongs to Cleveland. It will always belong to Cleveland."

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brown...ude-new-stadium

Dee is a persuasive go getter. Looks like this is going to be her big project.

The team will need a new stadium by 2029 or earlier.

Lot's of questions to think about

Do you keep the development on the lake or move inland?

Do you have a fixed or retractable dome? Trust me, they aren't building a
$1.5 billion development without a stadium that can't be used year round.

Do they keep Burke open or use that land as part of the grand plan?

Exciting to think about. I hope I am alive when it finally finishes.

Good. Build a dome or retractable roof this time around.

That won't even be open for discussion. It will probably be like Sun Trust park, the Braves field in Atlanta. It's like a city in the city. Hotels, shops, restaurants as a part of the ballpark grounds.

Oh thank god. The location, the parking, the stadium itself. Antiquated and terrible. Until they made their most recent upgrades it was bottom 5 in the league.

One of many reasons Cleveland cannot attract free agents. The stadium was thrown up, rushed and frantic just like the entire franchise was.

The upgrades went a long way no doubt, but give it another 10 years....I would hope it can be worked out in under 10 years. 3-4 to plan, 2-3 to build.

Would be nice to have 10 years. Hopefully it won’t take that long to get a QB of ours to win enough games to oust Ben as the winningest QB in the stadium before we plow it into the lake.

A lot of advancements in retractable domes have been made. I still want snow games but to hell with sitting in rain at 40 degrees.

And the Burk Lake Front acreage sits there on the waterfront for how many years growing grass ... Great Leaders !

It's a romanticized notion but there is no way they put a dome on the stadium and leave it open for snow...

They saw MN with a Superbowl and Dallas with the draft and now there's zero chance we're NOT playing indoors in a decade or sooner. Too much money out there to be made!

The problem with leaving it open is that nobody is going to want to spend close to a billion dollars on a facility that you can't close up and use for every other day of the year that doesn't include the 8 home games you get.

As fun as it is getting a snow game once in awhile, and harkening back to the "good ole days" where the icy winds would blow in and create a real man's football game, they aren't going to sacrifice the usefulness of a facility and justify pumping major tax dollars into it just for those rare occasions.

No doubt. Anything short of that is a missed opportunity.

Yes! Put a roof over the darn thing. Having an open air stadium in Cleveland is just idiotic. Add a roof, and bring a Super Bowl to town. Who knows, Maybe by then we might be annual contenders to win one, or more.

Hopefully, they also have a study of how to put a worthy team in that stadium so that it doesn't appear to be such a waste of real estate.

My problem with a dome is gonna be tailgating in December outside then coming in and trying to figure out wtf to do with all my Carhartt coveralls, gloves, hats, boots, hoodies..

Maybe they can have rental lockers?

"Who pays for it?" is the most pertinent question and the answer is "taxpayers".

Well you can’t expect billionaire owners to fund it can you?!
The rest of us use Go Fund Me to pay medical bills. The billionaire class just uses us as a donor class for their projects.

"I'm gonna pay for that guy's big house, because someday I might be that guy!"

j/c

I'd be interested to see what they come up with in terms of design, structure, location, grouping of franchises, etc.

The new trend seems to be having a complex with hotels, restaurants, other teams, etc. We'll see how it transpires

"Make the Lakefront not a private airport" would be a good start.

A dome with a complex of hotels, restaurants and parking would attract a lot of events IMO. NCAA Final Four, Big 10 Championships in sports, NFL Draft, Super Bowl, maybe an OSU football game each year, MLS games, political conventions, etc

Like Peen said, the Browns need to set it up like the new Suntrust Park.

When we went to the Braves game, it was a phenomenal experience.

Didn't worry about parking, we ubered in at 4pm. Game started at 7:30.

So we spent 3.5 hours bar hopping at all the restaurants outside the stadium. Forget tailgating in a parking lot when you can hang around all the classy sporty bars. (and stay warm)

Anyways, here is the set up for Sun Trust. You can see how awesome it is.

http://batteryatl.com/

Hopefully the Browns will study how to win. Tax payers aren't going to support footing the bill for this if the team can't turn it around.

Here is an article about how the new Mercedes-Benz stadium was paid for in Atlanta.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/s...new-nfl-stadium

I feel like something is being left out, in that very many people come to town for major sporting events held at that stadium, and they all have to eat and sleep somewhere, and have transportation, while they are in Atlanta visiting. (and there are also a lot of attractions to visit while here as well) So there is the aspect that more tourists do bring in revenue to the city. There just isn't any direct monetization from the stadium activities itself.

I'm not that familiar with Atlanta, I did see the Mercedes Benz stadium under construction from the marta train once though...

But in DC, they built the Nationals park in the absolute worst part of town.. and it only took a couple of years and that places is beautiful now...

The Roman coliseum was in use for almost 500 years.

I like to think, if they had built it in 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue, it still would have been in use in the 1960's.

This stadium study, I think is a case of nothing to see here; yet.


If they do build a new one, LID IT, and HEAT IT.

Happy Birthday DC!

It was.. but the concrete seats were uncomfortable, the bathrooms were scarce, and you couldn't get a good hot dog in their to save your life.

Thank you Eve..

For sure. Considering the economic impact, it's a good buy.


It's that kind of thinking that got our team moved in the first place. Got to spend money to make money Phil.

Think about it....taxpayers pay for almost everything. If not you, someone else will in a heartbeat.

Who needed bathrooms? You just stood up or squatted and took a leak at the seat.

Smokers, obviously. However, because the number of smokers has diminished so radically, they will need to assess a $975 tax per pack to pay for the new new stadium. Its only fair.

To be serious....I think a regional tax needs to be funded. The city of Cleveland shouldn't shoulder the deal, and they won't, the counry collects taxes from Cleveland, so it would be a country deal, but I think neighboring counties benefit from the city of Cleveland...Lorain, Summitt, Medina, Lake....not sure if that has them covered, should chip in as well. Maybe not as much, but maybe a gas tax of some sort. If not, the county of Cuyahoga should tax non county residents who work in the county additional payroll tax for using their roads and flushing their toilets.

Cleveland isn't just a city or a city in a county. It is a regional embalm.

I never lived a day inside the limits of the city of Cleveland. I lived in 2 of the western suburbs. Fairview Park, then Bay Village. Ok, I rented a apartment in Westlake for a year.


When people ask me where I am from, I tell them Cleveland. I am a Clevelander, and damn proud of it! I am sure people get sick of me reminding them I am from Cleveland and how great a place it was and is, and it has been 45 or so years since I lived there.

I was being facetious, but a continuation of the sin tax seems the easiest way. We have even expanded the definition of "sin" (unhealthy, therefore taxable behaviors) to include soda pop and fast food. Perhaps those could be added to the tobacco and alcohol taxes to raise the necessary funds. I just hope they don't float a property tax because the last time they tried that - remember "The Dome" vote in the mid 80's - it was crushed at the ballot. We don't have a lot of choices here. Cleveland isn't a tourist mecca that can fund everything with hotel bed taxes, like Florida. In addition to the sin tax, I think a user tax (ticket sales) and a significant contribution from the Browns (33-40%) should be a part of the equation.

let's add an ironic twist to the sin tax: make all Browns purchases include a sin tax