DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Abuse or Discipline?

For every parent in this politically correct world there is a difficult road to walk. Do you let your kids get away with things because your scared to discipline them because you could end up in jail or do you raise your kids with the rod so they understand discipline. In some cities you can go to jail if your kids break the law but you can also go to jail if you punish your kids so your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

So you decide on discipline with the rod figuratively or maybe even literally. I think it's perfectly fine to spank your kids BUT in my opinion you need to follow some simple guidelines. Your free to disagree of course but my kids are well behaved and don't get in trouble so at least it works for me. Anyways here goes:

1. Never hand out a punishment when your angry at the kid. When your angry you can't control yourself. Proverbs 19:18 Discipline your son while there is hope; don’t be intent on killing him.

Tell your child what they did wrong. Give them time to think about it while you calm yourself. Let them understand they earned the punishment because they broke your rules.

2. Never draw blood. While in spanking they might get a bruise or light red marks it is NOT OK to draw blood from your children. Proverbs 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly. It is biblical child abuse to draw blood.

3. Don't bait your kids into anger towards you. If you don't treat your kids with respect then they are not going to respect you back. Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, don’t stir up anger in your children, but bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. Phrases like, "What's your problem? Are you stupid or something? Does your brain even work?" are verbal abuse that demeans your child and riles them up in rebellion. Instead simply ask, "Do you understand why your about to be punished? What made you break our family's rules? What are you going to do differently so that I don't have to break my heart in punishing you? You understand that for as many times as you break our family's rules you will always be punished for it?"

4. Have written rules. Add new rules as needed. If you goofed and didn't put a rule in there don't punish the kid for your mistake. Instead have a discussion about the new rule and let them understand that next time there will be punishment. They are family rules, not YOUR rules. Have your family discuss the rules on a regular basis. Don't be scared to change or adjust them. Reserve the right to mom or dad vetoing a change though. After all Mom and Dad are the ones who ought to know best. Still by having your rules get shaped by your children they will understand them better including the WHY of having the rule. As they help to shape the rules they are far more likely to make the rules their own and far less likely to break them. It also helps to prepare them for a world that has far many more rules they have to follow than the ones at home.

5. When you write out your rules KEEP IT SIMPLE AND DIRECT. Your kids are not lawyers. Simple rules are understood. Complicated ones are not and lead to grey areas they will argue to get out of punishment. The best rules are ones so clear that you have no argument for. For example, "Don't hurt other people. Physically or in their heart/emotionally. The only exception is if you are in danger and can't find an adult to help you."

6. "1 Corinthians 16:14 Let all that you do be done in love." "Proverbs 13:24 Whoever does not discipline his son hates him, but whoever loves him is diligent to correct him." "Proverbs 19:18 Discipline your son while there is hope; don’t be intent on killing him."

It's not easy to be a parent. We are left in a world that wants good kids but doesn't have the stomach for raising them up because some parent forgot their love and turned towards wickedness.

When in doubt just remember to never hand out punishment when your angry. Chances are once you calm down your punishment will be far more reasonable. My children have seen me cry after spanking them. It's good for them to see the pain it causes you to punish them. It shows them you still love them. Give them a hug and comfort them once the punishment is over. They need to know they are loved and forgiven. In case you didn't know. ALWAYS FORGIVE THEM. As you would have God the father forgive you, ALWAYS FORGIVE THEM.

Deuteronomy 8:5 You shall also consider in your heart, that, as a man chastens his son, so the LORD your God chastens you.

Hebrews 12:6-7 The Lord disciplines everyone he loves. He severely disciplines everyone he accepts as his child.” Endure your discipline. God corrects you as a father corrects his children. All children are disciplined by their fathers.

Hand out punishment and discipline but always, always forgive afterwards. Love unconditionally and never ending. Your love is the bedrock their life is built around. I pray your children build a great and beautiful home built around the love you give them.

Do not hit any kid ever. They can be punished other ways.

The End.

I strongly disagree but your welcome to your opinion.

I deal with kids on a day to day basis. Thousands of them. No joke.

They misbehave and are bad seeds. They are some terrible people. (some of them)

But I can punish them on my games without hitting them, and get them to change their ways.

I do it all the time. There are many tactics for this.

I can make a bad seed into a good seed. And if they still resist they get the boot.

And I get that real life is not like internet games. But the psychology is still the same.

You can punish a kid without physical violence. And have the punishment change their behavior.

If you can't figure out how to do that, without beating your kid, then you shouldn't be a parent.

The End.

In anger, correct. But spare the rod, spoil the child. It can be done in a non-humiliating (alone/not in front of other children and non-partental adults), loving manner. Life has true consequences that can be painful, no reason why a correction (spanking) can't exemplify a sample of the real world.

Your right it's not the same. Their not your kids. Corporal punishment should be left to parents alone.

Yes, there are lots of ways to punish kids. Physical punishment is not the only means of discipline. It is an important tool in the chest though. Some kids don't need it at all. Some don't respond to anything but physical punishment. In real life you can't send your kids away forever or kick them out of your family unless your truly heartless. That's called abandonment. It's far more abusive mentally.

There is a very big difference between physical punishment and child abuse. The intention of my post was to enlighten those that are confused about the difference or worried what is ok and what is not.

It's a fact that for thousands of years physical punishment has been an important part of teaching discipline to children. It didn't suddenly stop working because some people don't like it. Yet with all things there is a right way and a wrong way to implement it.

You are wrong.

Your biblical references refer to discipline, but not beating a child.

You shouldn't try to preach when you have no idea what you're preaching about.

It is true, that there are many references in the bible about discipline and punishments, but none of them involve physical violence against a child. God has many ways of disciplining you. You are not God. You are a human. Nowhere does the bible say that it's ok to beat a child.

If you think there are, go look and show me, I'll wait.

If you can't find any, you may need to do some praying. Because assaulting a child is a heinous crime. And not one endorsed in the bible.

You do understand what a rod is right?

You need to get your facts straight. I mean your free to have any opinion your want but don't misquote the Bible if you please.

Do you know what stripes on the belly are?

Proverbs 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly

It refers to smacking a child on their stomach hard enough with a cane rod to leave red marks on their stomach.

Proverbs 22:15 A child’s heart has a tendency to do wrong, but the rod of discipline removes it far away from him.

The Bible is FULL of telling you to use physical punishment on disobedient children. That is a fact and not my opinion.

You do understand what the old testament is right?

You do understand that proverbs is old testament, correct?

And that Jesus was sent to preach God's new word, correct?

So, you can try to quote old testament, but it's not the bible.

I mean, there are very many good things about the old testament, but there are very many outdated things from thousands of years ago also. Because social norms were different then. Especially around how women are treated. And apparently the beating of children.

So yea, still waiting on a quote from you from the actual bible.

Also their is a big difference between spanking or switching a child to beating a child half to death. My kids are happy and well behaved so I am pretty confident that I am raising them the right way. So I will leave it at that.

There is a FAR cry between a swat or two on the butt versus physical violence.

My kids agree to their correction or they wait until they are ready to accept the consequences to their actions. There isn't anger in the correction. There isn't anger in receipt of the correction.

And I'm not talking about spanking a 15 year old kid. Mine are between the ages of 5-9.

I respect your opinion but I'm not willing to risk the legacy of my children on your opinion versus what I believe in my heart and interpret through Scripture to be God's approved way of a correction.

Do you even understand what your saying? I mean just WOW! The old testament is just as much a part of the Bible as the new testament.

Perhaps you didn't read when Jesus said this, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Plus the new testament is just as big on using physical punishment.

Hebrews 12:6-7 The Lord disciplines everyone he loves. He severely disciplines everyone he accepts as his child.” Endure your discipline. God corrects you as a father corrects his children. All children are disciplined by their fathers.

The new testament does nothing but reinforce what the old testament says for disciplining children.

I'm sorry Eve you may not like it but the Bible is VERY clear on the matter. Show me ANY verse that tells you not to punish your child with the rod. I'll look at it tomorrow.

You are severely confused apparently.

God disciplining people has nothing to do with you beating a child.

Because:

A) You are not God
B) God's discipline doesn't mean physical violence.

And it's true Jesus isn't re-writing the old testament. There are many things that are good about the old testament.

HOWEVER: Jesus was sent to clarify it.

So please do tell me where in the new testament that it says it's ok to beat a child. Should be a simple task.

It's 12:30 at night, but I'll wait.

Your doing well. It's much easier to correct them this way when their young because it doesn't have to be a severe punishment at all. Even a little spanking is enough to scare them straight and they will try harder to avoid it in the future where actual strength has to be used to have any effect. Instead as they get older they will just be smart about it and avoid going to far. As they get older it often only takes the threat to make them come to their senses.

I already provided one but you don't have the eyes to see. Hebrews is a new testament book. You realize that right? Go get some sleep Eve. Goodnight.

I don't have a reason to sleep yet.

Your Hebrews quote is taken wrong. Not the right context.

That quote refers to everyone (regardless of age) as a child of God.

Because how will you ever be anything before God but a child.

It's not referring to disciplining children directly in a physical manner.

Yep.

Hitting a kid is dumb. It's just an adult not being able to control their anger impulses.

What is wrong with giving your child a spanking on the ass? .. im not talking about beating, i’m Talking about a spanking on the ass ... age appropriate .... do u consider that “beating” your child?

And before u spank ... you’ve gone through at least a 3 or 4 step process before you get spanked for the offense ... and spankings aren’t for taking an extra cookie ... its reserved for “crossing the line” bad behavior ....

Just curious as everyone has different thoughts on this ...

What do u do to a 15 year old kid in regards to punishment ... and this is all personal ... im 100% curious ... i also like to know why ...

Do u stop “spanking” them ... a spank on the ass with your bare hand at 15 is going to get a laugh in response ... either that or a fake ass that hurt sound .. *LOL* ..

Can u paddle their ass with a spoon? ...

Is it ok to use a belt on their asses? ...

Just curious as to your thoughts ...

My oldest is 9. I MIGHT correct/spank him once a month. It's far more rare as they get older. There is a family who mentors us and they didn't have to spank their kids after 11-12. I'd expect it to be the same with mine and that's the trend.

Again, I'm not talking about a beating. I'm talking about 2-3 swats they stand waiting for an know are coming. Not an attack.

I favor beatings. Kids and adults alike. Back when beating wasn't so awful, people tended to watch their Ps and Qs. Weak minded mouthy punks learned to stfu. Kids respected adults or at least feared the repercussions of acting out. Timeouts and explanations have done nothing for child rearing. Participation trophies are for losers.

Children must have guidance. Jerks must have guidance. Fools must have guidance. Bullies must have guidance. Wannabe crooks must have guidance. Beatings or just knowing there is the possibility of a beating resolves most of these guidance issues.

If beatings seem uncivil or arcane to you, just consider them old time therapy.

Back then, police didn't shoot kids, they brought them home to their parents knowing the parents would do what was needed. Think about that. Beatings save lives.

With their kids at 11 and 12 was the bare hand still affective? .. if not, what did they use? ... boys and/or girls ....

I’m ASSuming your talking bare open handed spankings on the butt ... if thats not right please correct so i know what were talking about ...

Ty sir ...

Spanking is just fine, but I agree never do it out of anger. Always make sure your kids know why they are getting spanked, and yes keep it age appropriate. A bare hand, a belt, a paddle, or a switch (through clothing) is fine. I raised two fine kids, my parents raised three fine kids, my grandparents of both sides raised 8 fine kids, all spanking their children. My kids were asked to do something, or to stop doing something once, if they didn't listen then were told in a stern voice, then if they still didn't listen they got spanked. I believe they were both about 7 or 8 the last time I had to spank them.

About that age, they understand consequences without a spanking. Yes, I think it was bare hand or paddle. I use bare hand...sometimes I have a leather thingy but I use that rarely.

Ty sir ...

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."

Have you ever seen that Nanny show where she helps families that have completely out of control children. And by the end of the show they are obedient angels. No hitting involved.

Hitting is for neanderthal subhumans.

You can hit neanderthals and subhumans too but the right won't like it.

That was a good one haha.

Fran never needed corporal punishment as her voice is recognized as a torturing device by there Geneva Convention.

Funny joke... A Fran Drescher reference.

To be accurate, Eve was referring to a show called 'Nanny 911.'

Don’t watch much tv other than sports ...

So spanking is to harsh for u ... got it ..

Ty maam ...

Mentally punishing children is bad.

I'm curious Eve, you seem to know a lot on this topic. How are your kids doing?

Ah. I was more of a SuperNanny fan growing up.

I deal with lots of teenagers on a daily basis. As part of my job. And sometimes they behave rather badly.

That's just it mate. When you spank them early on it stops a lot of nonsense because they learn early to control themselves. It teaches them early on that there are consequences to bad behavior and that avoiding that behavior is the smart thing to do.

Each kid is different though. One of my daughters had a lead butt. She would tense up and dare you to spank her. That's when they graduate from spankings to switching. I know because I was just like her when I was her age. Stubborn as a mule and touch as one too. Mom couldn't spank me because she couldn't hit me hard enough to make it hurt. I remember when she had to go to the emergency room because she sprained her hand spanking me. That is when I got introduced to the handle of a metal flyswatter. LOL that got my attention REAL fast. I'm very grateful too because I was really getting out of hand since my Dad was a merchant marine on the great lakes so I didn't see him much. My aunt N. had no problem whipping us with the willow branch on the whole army of us brats. She was the one who watched us after school for her brothers and sisters. With 5-12 of us running around you know she had it rough =)

I can't think of any of us getting in much trouble once we hit about 12 though because you KNEW what the punishment was when you behaved like a meathead and it just wasn't worth it. None of them ever drew blood though no matter how mad they got.

Now when Dad got off the boats ... I became a new man because I knew and I mean KNEW he would not be screwing around and unlike mom, Dad had nooooo problem setting his son strait. I always prayed he would use the belt because his hands were like steel. The fear of my father kept me out of so much trouble. I make sure my kids have the same healthy fear of me too because I know it works.

The number one thing that will get my kids a spanking is violence towards each other or lying to me. I just don't tolerate liars at all. My kids know that if they lie about something they did wrong the punishment will get doubled. Even my youngest will pout, get angry, stomp her foot, but she will think long and hard before lying to me.

My youngest has that same temper of mine so it took me many years of teaching her how to control herself through breathing exercises and mental control exercises but she just makes me so proud when I see her taking a deep breath and trying to calm herself down.

I hardly ever have to spank either of them much anymore except maybe once a year. They are nine and 11 now. They are just such good and sweet girls and their teachers love them to death. They do get tired of having brats in their class that don't know how to behave. You can always tell which kids don't get discipline at home. They all act the same disrespectful way.

Like the Bible says, "Spare the Rod, Spoil the child."

At that age it's tricky. A lot of times they do bad things on purpose just to test their limits or to get attention.

If it's to test their limits then oblige them and enforce your house's rules to the max. I don't think anything less than a belt even makes a dent. Just make sure it's private and after a good talk. It's not OK to publically humilate your kid. It shouldn't be taken as personal but just as an enforcement of the rules. You can't hold back either at that age or they will take you for a joke until you get serious. If they don't take YOU serious then they will stop taking any authority figure seriously.

If they are doing it to get your attention then you still need to punish them but you also need to evaluate yourself and see why they feel ignored or neglected. Talk and most importantly LISTEN. It's hard as a parent to listen when your kids criticize you but you have to remember they are people too. If you want them to respect you then you have to respect what they have to say too.

BTW the upper thighs just below the butt hurts way worse than on the butt. Even a rubber slipper can hurt like heck there and you won't bruise them or risk cuts that way.

I also don't think it's good to use your hands to spank. It's better to use an object that you will normally use so they associate the pain with the object instead of your hands. Your hands should make them feel safe instead of scared. That is why in the Bible they use a rod/cane.

No actually it's not true. Where do you people even get this nonsense from. The discipline from the Bible has been the same for THOUSANDS of years. I mean you understand that right? It's not rehashed in the New Testament that much because 2000 years ago EVERYONE KNEW. It was common freaking sense. Your kid got out of line a long cane or wooden rod was going to tear you a new one. If you didn't do it yourself then the elders were going to do it for you. Stripes on the belly are welts from a beating. Literally. Discipline was done in one way. BEATINGS with a ROD. They often drew blood from it. The blueness of a would is a BRUISE. A FREAKING BRUISE. They were determined to beat the devil out of their child. It's not metaphorical. It's freaking literal. They would smack the belly with the Rod because it was a sensitive and very painful punishment.

There is no mystery to this. History goes back 4,000 years of it being done the same way. It's not guesswork or in need of a translation. It's common freaking sense.

“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.(Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly. (Proverbs 13:24)

Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; the rod of correction will drive it far from him. (Proverbs 22:15)

Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, and deliver his soul from hell. (Proverbs 23:13–14)

The rod and rebuke give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother. (Proverbs 29:15)

“Blessed is the one whom God corrects; so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty. For he wounds, but he also binds up; he injures, but his hands also heal. (Job 5:17-18)

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but whoever hates correction is stupid. (Proverbs 12:1)

In Biblical times they were VERY serious about the discipline of kids to the point it was life and death. I only wish parents today cared as much about making sure their kids were brought up the right way instead of being scared to punish their kids.