DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus US Embassy in Israel to open today

Yes but from what I have seen, the bad Trump was before he became our President.

I'm pretty sure he sold $110 billion in weapons to the world's largest terrorist organization after he became president.

link ?

He was fantastic in "Ridin' Miss Daisy"...

Israel says three 'armed terrorists' among 52 reported dead in Gaza border clashes

At least three of the 52 Palestinians reportedly killed Monday in clashes ahead of the Jerusalem opening of the U.S. Embassy to Israel were “armed terrorists” caught trying to plant a bomb near the Gaza border fence, Israel's military said.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/14/...er-clashes.html

Was Stormy in that one ... ...

57 dead ... sad ... very sad ...

j/c

What I will say is that while I can't say what the full implications of this move will be, I do see one obvious thing. A void that will be there in any future negotiation between the Israelis and Palestinians. Since Israel has become a nation in 1948, we have been the one nation instrumental in peace negotiations between Israel and Palestine. We have been considered an impartial and very important part of brokering peace in the region.

With this move, be it real or not, the Palestinians see this move as a clear sign that we are no longer impartial. That we can no longer be seen as a fair broker of deals between the two sides. I have no idea who will now fill that void but it will most certainly leave us out of the process.

That's why we haven't made this move before now. Be it right or wrong, I believe it will be yet another tool that Muslim extremists will be able to use as an example of how the U.S. is against the Muslim world.

Ouch... Also 2400+ wounded.

It looks like this man was hit in the right leg.

In all fairness, by who? Like when we didn't recognize Palestine as a state when the rest of the world did? How impartial was that? Every other country wanted to recognize the illegal settlements Israel was constructing and condemn them. We merely abstained (which is better than vetoing), which was bashed by President Trump and the Israelies (yet, why attack us, go after all the other countries that actually approved the condemnation)




I'll agree with this. But, that's the thing. We've always had to be at the table because of who we are. No other reason than that. I don't think any Palestinian would ever consider us impartial. We make it clear, Israel is our ally (to which, I say, what have they ever done for us?)




My deal is, if we put an Israeli embassy in Jeruselum, why can't we put a Palestinian one there as well. (oh wait, we used our security council overriding veto vote to keep Palestine from being recognized as a state, when the rest of hte world did. That's our impartiality........)

The City isn't even supposed to be part of Israel. It's supposed to be an independent city. That's what the deal was in 1947 or 1948.

As a Catholic, the city means a lot to me. Jesus was crucified there. Maybe the Vatican should send over a crusade and take it for the Catholics........

The city should be an independent state which recognizes all three religions. There should be no embassies there, PERIOD

Point of clarification, it's not an Israeli or Palestinian embassy.. they would both be American embassies in Israel or Palestine..

and we can't put an embassy up for Palestine until we at least recognize them as a sovereign people.

Yes, that's what i meant. The American Embassy to Israel is in Jeruselum.

We should recognize Palestine as a state (clarified it in the edit after you read my post and before i read yours) and put the American Embassy to Palestine in Jeruselum.

Otherwise, an American Embassy to Jeruselum in Jeruselum

Other than being basically the only ally in the Middle East, providing us with a way and means of attack if need be, as well as providing us with intel that probably has saved thousands of lives....not much

Can't we just have one embassy with a door for Israel and a door for Palestine? Then both doors can open into the same room.

I think you just solved the two state solution.

Why would we do that .... not saying it’s right or wrong but the FACT IS ..

We’ve had a dog in this fight since day 1 ...

I’m not sure who in the world thinks were neutral here ... our actions and the amount of money we’ve sent them since 1948 are all the symbolism u need to know ... the only blip on that radar has been O and as much as he tried to push them away we still sent them plenty of greenbacks ...

We want peace ... no doubt ... but that don’t mean were now or have ever been neutral ... not sure what alternate universe Pit is talking about ...

Sure. When we recognize Palestine as a state, like Barak Obama should have done (like all the other countries in the world overwhelmingly did)


And it goes further than that, because, this is a matter of accepting Jeruselum as part of Israel. Which, IMO, it shouldn't be. It's a big bargaining chip that we just handed over to the Israelies in the whole fight for Palestinian legitimacy

Why do you think we have only one ally?

What would the reason for that be? Maybe our blind support for Israel? Political and financial? Military too?


Meanwhile turning a blind eye to the oppression of the Palestinian people in the region........

And don't get me wrong, I don't like the Arab countries. Iran, Saudi Arabia, they overwhelmingly apaul me.

But it doesn't change the fact that there's a group of people that are being oppressed, in their own land, by our own allies

I see it this way...

For decades there has been no agreement between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Israel worked it out with Lebanon.
Israel worked it out with Jordan.
Israel worked it out with Egypt.
Israel even gave back lands they won in the 6 day war to have peace.

But Israel can not work it out with a people whose only demand, whose only wish, is for all of you to DIE!

President Trump sent in his people to try to reach common ground and the Palestinians would not deal in good faith.
Even the Saudi's walked away in disgust at the Palestinians.

So President Trump has changed tactics and told them they are now on their own, we are on the side of Israel, there is no discussion and moved our Embassy to Jerusalem.

We will now wait to see if the Palestinians will reconsider about talking.

Because it's the right thing to do...............

Doesn't that count for anything? Being the good guy?

Call me naive, but that matters to me

Do you really think that is what they sit around thinking about? Wanting us to die?

Did u miss the part where i said i wasn’t passing judgement ...

My only point was ... we have a dog in the race why would we try and act neutral ... that would FOOL NO ONE ...

Watch and decide for yourself...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RudDPzRlKxs

This is one of many many sources but summarizes it well.

President Obama himself said that he would not consider Egypt an ally.

Turkey is technically an NATO ally. the others would be Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, Bahrain and Morocco. I don't see those countries providing us with any real means push come to shove. So yes, they are BASICALLY the only real ally we have over there.

Why do we consider them our ally. Well, for one they don't go around threatening to kill every other person in the area. Palestine has said they want to eradicate Isreal countless times. As have other countries stated the same goal.

If I am not mistaken, Palestine was founded by a terrorist organization, thus we never gave them credit as a state. Imagine, years from now - people calling for ISIS to be recognized as a state......

No. I get that. It's not you, it's me.

It's just an issue that I've been passionate for a long time. And I see the same old, for the past two decades (since I was old enough for the issue to matter to me).

It just really pisses me off. And really, no matter what politician gets voted into office, little changes. The closest being the later years of the Obama Administration. At least John Kerry was honest when he said that what was going on over there was Apartheid. And I'm no Kerry fan. Didn't vote for him vs GWB or anything, but he at least made an honest assessment while he was Secretary Of State

The history goes much further back than that. Back to WW1. When the people in that region were guaranteed a state by Great Britain if they rose up against the Ottoman Empire. They did their part.

At the same time, they promised a land to the Jewish People on the same property (whom made up a small fraction of the people on the land.


During the 1930's, the people we'd call Palestinians protested and argued for their right to rule their land on a vote independently. The British promised to do this after WW2.

After WW2, the British recanted on this promise and left everything up to the UN. From there Jordan and Israel were created. But, Jordan is not the valuable piece of property. Israel was. This is why the war started, and everything that happened thereafter.


That's my understanding of the events. I haven't refreshed myself on it in awhile though, so some of it might not be exactly true.


Point being, you can say "Palestine" was founded by a terrorist organization, but these people we call Palestinians, have been fighting for independence since WW1. Since before the large amounts of immigration from foreigners into their country. And they've never stopped fighting for it. They're are the native people of this land living in an occupied state, without the same rights as every day Israelies.

They'd been living there for centuries and never left.


EDIT: If someone has a better recollection of these events or wants to correct me, please do

how do they treat others? IDK, say Christians?

How have Christians treated them?

They've been neglected by the entire world. Used as pawns by countries like Egypt and Iran. Overlooked by the United States



All I want to do is what is right. What's happened to these people, on their own land, is downright terrible. And it happened in the past 100 years.

Imagine if that happened to you. And the rest of the world, Christian countries of power included, not only allowed it but basically promoted it

NPR said on the way home that 1200 Palestinians suffered gunshot wounds today.
Tinderbox meet gasoline

J\C

I have a feeling the libs here are ANTI-SEMITES or is it just me that the lbs here seems like their part of the Palstinian Peanut Gallery ....just an observation

Yes, over the years I have defended Israel against the Liberals on these Boards.

I have no idea what the second part of your statement means.

As for Anti-Semites, if you're referring to me, don't go there. Because that's just ignorant and insulting.

How ‘bout you stop putting words in people’s mouths.

Wait till my black friends... I mean Jewish friends hear about this post! They will laugh and laugh.

Why do you have to classify your 'friends' by race, or religion?

Because I'm mocking The Cons who constantly use this defense. Personally, I classify my friends through circumcision surgeries and which football team they root for, like a normal human being.

Who are you to decide who is absolved of anything? Please come d a little objectivity and a modicum of humility while you’re at it.

Well, you obviously need to work on your humor.

Maybe you just need to understand irony?

Nah. You could learn a lot.