DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Step 1

Quietly optimistic.
( He doesn't have to become the next anything).
I'd get him if I had a keeper league in Fantasy Sports.
He "answered" well right!
Answer: when a Qb, or offense, makes a quick drive for a score after watching the other team score, nullifying such.

Thanks.

I’d be curious to see the stats for the following in no particular order:

Luck (control group as he played pro style)
Kizer
Newton
Goff
Wentz
Mariota
Winston
Carr
Bortles

These are the above players' career numbers, if you want individual seasons just let me know:

Andrew Luck
Shotgun: 1112/1861 (59.75% completion), 90 TDs, 52 INTs, 86.1 QB rating, 7.1 yards per attempt (YPA)
Under Center: 459/791 (58.03%), 42 TDs, 16 INTs, 90.3 QB rating, 7.3 YPA

DeShone Kizer
Shotgun: 222/409 (54%), 9 TDs, 16 INTs, 62.9 QB rating, 5.9 YPA
Under Center: 33/67 (49.25%), 2 TDs, 6 INTs, 45.7 QB rating, 7.2 YPA

Cam Newton
Shotgun: 1634/2782 (58.73%), 123 TDs, 78 INTs, 84.5 QB rating, 7.3 YPA
Under Center: 365/637, 34 TDs, 16 INTs, 88.2 QB rating, 7.4 YPA

Jared Goff
Shotgun: 287/484 (59.3%), 21 TDs, 10 INTs, 83.9 QB rating, 6.4 YPA
Under Center: 122/199 (61.31%), 12 TDs, 4 INTs, 102.5 QB rating, 9.0 YPA (!)

Carson Wentz
Shotgun: 534/884 (60.41%), 42 TDs, 19 INTs, 86.8 QB rating, 6.6 YPA
Under Center: 111/164 (67.68%), 7 TDs, 2 INTs, 99.0 QB rating, 7.5 YPA

Marcus Mariota
Shotgun: 612/989 (61.88%), 35 TDs, 24 INTs, 84.9 QB rating, 7.1 YPA
Under Center: 175/285 (61.40%), 23 TDs, 10 INTs, 101.7 QB rating, 8.7 YPA

Jameis Winston
Shotgun: 648/1066 (60.79%), 43 TDs, 33 INTs, 83 QB rating, 7.1 YPA
Under Center: 292/479 (60.96%), 26 TDs, 11 INTs, 96.8 QB rating, 8.5 YPA

Derek Carr
Shotgun: 1148/1861 (61.69%), 81 TDs, 37 INTs, 87.2 QB rating, 6.6 YPA
Under Center: 230/386 (59.59%), 22 TDs, 7 INTs, 89.2 QB rating, 6.2 YPA

Blake Bortles
Shotgun: 1062/1798 (59.07%), 66 TDs, 53 INTs, 78.5 QB rating, 6.5 YPA
Under Center: 258/435 (59.31%), 24 TDs, 11 INTs, 89.8 QB rating, 7.3 YPA

Do with that what you will.

I will say that some of these guys faced some pretty adverse circumstances (Mariota with Whisenhunt and Mularkey as his head coach/play callers, Andrew Luck with lack of talent, Derek Carr had a hurt thumb and couldn't take snaps from under center, DeShone Kizer. . . lots of stuff).

My guess is that the YPA in the shotgun is much lower because that's when most teams throw screens to the wide receivers.

I would also like to point out that last year Ben Roethlisberger took 498 snaps out of shotgun last year and only 49 from under center with Todd Haley as his offensive coordinator.

If these two players stood side by side, Darnold and Mayfield, without knowing them or what they could do on the field, Darnold is the pick 100% of the time.

No question. I have friends that always want the biggest and most imposing QB in the game. Everyone assumes you need a "big" QB to compete in the AFC North. I'm just saying give me the guy who will elevate the play of his teammates, win games, do everything in his power to the be best the he can be... That's who I want. And I think we got the right guy.

I had hunch... I actually bought my Browns Mayfield jersey back in February. With the #6. Friends laughed... but, this is going to be a fun ride.

The height isn't an issue... Wilson, Young and Brees are three shorter quarterbacks who've won super bowl titles. Perhaps we just drafted the future greatest "short" QB of all time?

I don't think Baker is fast enough to be Steve Young. He probably will run more than Brees. And I liked the Rich Gannon comparison. Gannon wasn't great until he was 35. I would take 35 yr old Rich Gannon for 15 years, but Baker is going to be better than that.

Yet his coach couldn't stop gushing about him....

That is incredible. Was he really that bad? Looks like BM outworked him, at least for a day.

What was there to gush about? Spinning the pick?

Saying he had 3 fumbles is very misleading ....

He had 3 bad center exchanges that were appearantly from guys that weren’t centers in college ...

Its MEANINGLESS ...

I wonder what the next thing thats going to get way over analyzed by todays microwave society will be ....

Talk to me in 3 years ...

Sounds worse than it was then? No bullets flying, and exchanges are a little different. But the other stuff is lousy too. Typical rookie day at the office maybe. Just sounded very rough.
Three years might be enough either way.

.

I imagine they'll try to tweak it just because they can and that's what they do. I was impressed when he said he practiced throwing from all angles, one of the things he does to compensate for height. Anything mechanical will likely deal with improving his performance in the pocket, or be about keeping his base. Working under center. But I get what he was saying too, basically, he's going to throw the way he throws.

j/c....

Dan Orlovsky Verified account
@danorlovsky7
Good drill here by the @Browns for Mayfield. Mayfields going to need to become obsessed with his craft to minimize his height reality. Little things=Big things at QB position.

Video breakdown of Mayfield performing drill at rookie mini-camp

Mayfield has been obsessed with his craft his entire career.

And he has always played at his height. It's not like he all of a sudden needs to learn to play at his height. He's been doing it all his life. Some of these people act like it's a new thing for him.

Wow thanks. That’s both interesting and surprising.

This is going to be so much fun. I can't wait... With the last 3 drafts we finally have the core group we've longed for...Baker is bringing it all together and will lead us. I love it.

And his OL went LT 6'6", OG 6'4", C 6'4", OG 6'6", RT 6'5"..

So it's not like the size of NFL OL is going to be a big shocker for him...

I heard an interesting comment from an ex QB: the height thing affects the WR as much as the QB. They like to see the ball right from the QB's hands, and sometimes shorter guys throw a "hidden" ball and it gets right on you

Dan Orlovsky.. yea he has a vid on his twitter... show how drew bree stand on tippy toe to trow certen passes and how they teaching baker to do the same.

thanks, that was it

Aaron Rodgers is 6'2".

Baker Mayfield is 6'1/2".

On my screen, this is the approximate difference in height: [----------]

I think that knowing how to find throwing lanes is the most important think Baker needs to be able to do. Being able to maneuver in the pocket will also be vital. Also being able to drop, and get away from the LOS quickly will be very important.

The Browns can also move the pocket. Baker will play outside the pocket at times, either by design, or simply by virtue of his ability to do so.

While height is somewhat important, I think that being 6'2" or 6'1/2" is relatively insignificant. I do think that there are some ways to "play bigger", as was noted, but I think that Baker's ability to get a good, quick drop will wind up being the most important thing.

Yep, that's it thanks!

I agree. You also have to factor that the NFL is changing. QB's don't play under center like they did in 1985.

They play out of the gun 60%-70% of the time

i find it interesting that Mayfield was well-liked by a lot of the "younger" or forward thinking coaches (at least that's what's reported). He might be the face of the new NFL trend: RPO dominant, shifting pocket, accuracy, etc

We’ll know in 3 or 4 years if his height or anything else will be issues ...

His height will make it “harder” not impossible ...

Its just something he has to deal with ... it can be done ... he has the other traits to suceed ...

Kids got a shot ... smart, accurate and a hard ass worker ... that combo gives u a chance ...

GOOD LUCK BAKER ...

With all respects, but I don't think he does, and it has nothing to with him.

Mayfield room to maneuver is very little, he has so many drawbacks that nobody is going to bet on him if he struggles at the beginning.

Now, what are the success chances for a 1-31 team?

That's why drafting Mayfield was stupid and could only be done by a smart ass, even if he pans out, it was still stupid to draft him #1...

Darnold or Rosen would have given us some room, we would have given them time... Just look at Jared and others. If Mayfield struggles we most probably will be drafting a QB next year with the first pick.

What? What are his "Many drawbacks"?

Has he any sure traits that would make him the natural number 1 pick?

He was far from being the consensus #1 Qb in this draft, that's his main drawback.

But I'll answer... His size, personality and behavior..

He's got a very accurate strong arm. He's shown an ability to hit his receivers in stride to all points of the field. He's played four years of college football and been extremely successful at it.

He's also shown an ability, in the offense he's played in, that he makes very good decisions

That, I've seen on the field.



There is absolutely nothing about his personality or behavior that I have seen that has had any effect on his production. His teammates/ex-teammates speak glowingly about him. His ex-Head Coach cried when discussing him leaving with the press.



As to his size, give me the player with a strong arm, ability to throw with accuracy and anticipation, with four years starting experience as an effective QB who makes good decisions over a couple inches.

Get out a tape measurer and measure 1 & 3/8 inches. That's the difference in height between him and Aaron Rodgers.

And that's the best you can come up with........... lol


Baker wasn't my top guy. Rosen was. But I'll take Baker over Darnold (who shows inconsistency when making decisions) and Allen (who shows inconsitency making decisions and inconsistency with accuracy). I've clearly seen how those two guys deficiencies impact their game. I haven't seen Baker's height cause him any disadvantage in a football game yet......

I'll take the better player that's an inch and a half shorter than Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Mitch Trubisk, Andy Dalton, and more

Well there wasn't a consensus #1 pick in the draft so by your logic we shouldn't have picked a QB. From everything I hear and read BM was the #1 pick QB on at least 6 teams boards. Some had Darnold and some had Allen. Some may have had Rosen but with how far he slipped I don't know if Rosen was #1 on anyone's board.

As for his personality - it's going to be one of his greatest strengths as a Pro QB. He's driven and he has a chip on his shoulder. He's never going to take anything for granted and be relentless in pursuit of continually improving. imo.

His behavior is also going to be a great asset to him - his work ethic and dedication to being the best at his craft that he can be.

Maybe you have decided what he's like as a person - forever labeling him based on some mistakes he made as a college kid. That's your prerogative but I think it's immensely judgmental. I hope others don't judge you so harshly and forgive you for any poor choices you ever make more easily - lord knows I've done much worse than BM in my life and Iv'e turned into a hell of a father and an OK human being.

As for the height - he sure doesn't have the prototypical 6'4" frame .... but he's also - what = 1/2" shorter than Tyrod and I don't remember a single solitary post about TT's height when we acquired him .... so I think it's a bit premature to assume that the height issue isn't an obstacle that can be overcome. As someone posted - his OL in college was NFL sized and he seemed to do ok.

there was not consensus number 1 pick. however if Mayfield was 1 in taller, he would have been touted as the best qb since luck.

come up with something about actual football he doesn't do well. he is the most rounded qb in the draft.

He plays the position as well or better than anybody else in the draft.


The main drawback is that there was no consensus from the talking heads that most people never agree with anyway?

What we did learn from Adam Schefter after the draft is that there were several teams very eager to move up to #4 and take him.. maybe that's because they thought he was the best QB in the draft, maybe they thought he was just the best QB that would be available at #4.. can't answer that, but clearly there were other teams that wanted him enough to trade away a host of other picks to get him.


I'm not at all concerned about any of that.

It's still throwback. Just watch Washington when Joe Theisman was playing. He was listed as 6' tall. I met him at a crap table in Las Vegas. I was playing, he walked up next to me, placed 5-6 wagers and left. I recognized him and said hello Joe, I really liked your game. He thanked me shook my hand, and that was that. My point is I am a little under 6' tall, and he wasn't taller than me.

The Skins rolled out all the time with Joe. Gibbs put him in a position to do what he did well. He was accurate and could throw on the run. Add in a Mack truck in John Riggins and you had a offense that was fun to watch.


That is what I hope we can build here. We have the makings of our own "Hogs" up front. We have some bruisers in the backfield, and a rookie QB who can spot the ball on a dime 25 yards downfield.


I am going to go watch some Redskins vids when Joe was QB. Everybody else should too because that is that is how we are going to attack on offense.

Dude. Don't fall for this Kat's antics.

It's obvious that everything he says is a Crock O' BS. He loves being contradicting.

He looks foolish every key stroke.

No worries man. I've been on here awhile, and six months a year, I'm on here non-stop.

I've got an idea of what I think of everyone. And the ones that really drive me nuts don't get replies from me because they're on the PeteyDangerous Ex-Files lol.



But, in this case, yes. I think Rasta's explanation is wrong. He's evaluating the wrong things. As I've said, Baker was my number two guy. (And just because he's number two doesn't mean that I'm upset at all. I never was all or nothing, and just because I liked one guy most didn't mean drafting anyone else was a failure.

I was part of the ABA movement though. I wanted our FO to choose whichever QB they felt best about, so long as it wasn't Josh Allen, lol.)

Didn't see this one posted anywhere, and I found this to be a well written article. Good work from Dan Labbe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The DeShone Kizer experience shouldn't cloud vision for Baker Mayfield's future
Updated 7:33 AM; Posted May 14, 4:00 PM

By Dan Labbe, cleveland.com dlabbe@cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Many were quick to point out throughout the draft process -- and rightly so -- that Baker Mayfield and Johnny Manziel are not the same person.

Let's establish something else: Baker Mayfield is not DeShone Kizer and Mayfield's situation this year is nothing like Kizer's a season ago.

There are many contrasts from the Browns a season ago to now and perhaps the biggest comes to the handling of their quarterback situation. They traded a valuable pick for Tyrod Taylor and Hue Jackson has stayed firm in his stance that Taylor is this team's starting quarterback, a decision he announced almost instantly.

Many people failed Kizer a season ago, from front office to the coaching staff. There was never a viable option to start in front of him. The ship had sailed on Cody Kessler and Brock Osweiler, a throw-in for a draft pick, failed to take advantage of his opportunities in the preseason to prove he could hold down the starting job for long. While it's easy, in hindsight, to say any quarterback could have started and gone 0-16, that wasn't the goal in August, September or even December. So Jackson decided to bank on Kizer's upside.

Jackson, of course, bears blame, too, for his handling of Kizer once the decision was made. Before the opener last year, I asked him if he knew going in that he would just have to live with Kizer making a big mistake here and there, considering how raw he was.

"But maybe he will make a big play, too," Jackson said. "Yeah, it is part of it playing quarterback in the National Football League. Like I said, I don't know what is going to happen on Sunday as far as that is concerned, but the goal is for him to make more plays on the positive than the negative. That is what we have to do to win this game."

Unfortunately, Kizer started making more negative plays than positive and it turned out Jackson wasn't willing to live with them. Thus began the yo-yo-ing of Kizer in and out of the lineup, in part a result of losses piling up, but something that certainly didn't do Kizer any great service. The Browns jettisoned Kizer and it's hard to say if he has the ability to become a viable starter in the NFL. Kizer has his share of flaws that may or may not be fixable.

Needless to say, everyone is a little bit scarred -- and a little bit scared -- by the Kizer experience of a season ago. He was a rookie thrown into the fire too soon, like many rookies before him by this organization. There's something to be said here about history and being doomed to repeat it.

I fully agree with any assessment that says Mayfield doesn't need to start right away. I also believe the Browns should play the quarterback who gives them the best chance to win. Right now, that's Taylor.


And, while there are lessons to be learned from the Kizer experience of a year ago, this decision should have nothing to do with it. Despite what Packers coach Mike McCarthy says, Kizer was the No. 52 overall pick in the draft. No team knowingly takes their franchise quarterback at No. 52. Most of the time, there's some trait or measurable that merits taking a shot on a quarterback at that spot, and with Kizer it was size and arm strength. Don't kid yourself, though -- when you take your quarterback in the second or third-round range, sometimes you end up with Russell Wilson and sometimes you end up with Kizer or Kessler.

When the Browns took Mayfield No. 1 overall, it was a clear declaration that this is, in fact, their quarterback for the long haul. That gives them the ability to sit him for as long as they want. They won't, at any time, need to shrug their shoulders and play Mayfield for the sole purpose of seeing what they have because they've made that assessment already. There won't be a potential starting quarterback drafted by this franchise in 2019 or 2020. Mayfield is the guy. If he's not, this won't be the regime drafting the next potential franchise quarterback, anyway.

It also means, however, that Mayfield will nip at Taylor's heels and quickly -- and that's how it should be. History shows that highly-drafted quarterbacks don't sit long. Jared Goff was starting before Thanksgiving in 2016. The quarterback picked after him, Carson Wentz, started Week 1, even when that wasn't the plan as late as a week before Philadelphia's opener in 2016.


The Bears managed to keep Mitchell Trubisky on the bench for all of four games behind Mike Glennon, while the Texans lasted a half with Tom Savage over Deshaun Watson. The Chiefs managed to keep Pat Mahomes on the bench, but they also had a Pro Bowl quarterback who got off to a 5-0 start. (We'll get to that.)

The point here is that when a quarterback is drafted high and real draft assets are used to select him, the future comes quickly. If Mayfield ends up on the field sooner than we all expect, the response shouldn't be, "Here we go again."

Mayfield's credentials offer a clear distinction between him and Kizer. Kizer, drafted at age 21, had two years as a starter and 695 passes to his name with completion percentages hovering near 60 percent. Mayfield comes to Cleveland with four years worth of game experience at the college level, including 40 games at Oklahoma. According to his Sports Reference page, he has thrown 1,497 passes. He has carried season-long completion percentages of 64.1, 68.1, 70.9 and 70.5 percent. He just turned 23. He checks every box for a fast ascension to No. 1. Only a qualified starter should hold him back.

Which brings us back to the plan in place and why Mayfield is likely to wait: Taylor. With the weapons around him on offense, Taylor should be able to guide the Browns to some level of respectability on offense this season. The headache-inducing turnovers will be gone. He will have the opportunity to show off his playmaking ability with his legs. He won't have LeSean McCoy behind him, but he should be paired with a formidable rushing attack behind a strong interior offensive line.


No surprise, but this is the Chiefs-model lite. Current Browns GM John Dorsey took over a Chiefs team, alongside Andy Reid, that was coming off of a 2-14 season. Dorsey's first significant move was acquiring Alex Smith to play quarterback and he spent aggressively to bring in veterans who could change the team's fortunes quickly. The Chiefs haven't had a losing season since.

Taylor is not Smith, but he has won in the NFL over a three-year period as a starter. He's durable. He has dealt with a team dead set on replacing him at every turn. He is the definition of professional at a position where the Browns need a true professional.

This is why the Browns are handling this correctly. There is no rush to start Mayfield, nor should there be. He's still learning to take snaps under center. There were times during rookie minicamp where he appeared to get swallowed up in the pocket. He didn't look ready to start two weekends ago.

Would following this path with Kizer have created a path to success for him? Would it have precluded the Browns from picking a quarterback high in this past draft? Based on what we watched from Kizer throughout 2017 and based on his inconsistent performance in college, it would be a stretch to make that proclamation.


Things change in this league and they change quickly and the pieces in place that will make Taylor successful also allow the possibility of dropping Mayfield into the cockpit at some point. This is not a flyer like Kizer or an overdraft like Manziel. Neither of those two should make anyone fearful of a change whenever that change happens.

Mayfield should take over whenever the time is right, whether it's the unlikely scenario of Week 1, the more likely scenario of Week 10 or in 2019. Unlike with Kizer, there is a clear process in place. Unlike with Kizer, this pick was a clear culmination of a plan to identify and draft the quarterback of the future and identify the right time to turn the future into the present.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/05/baker_mayfield_cleveland_brown.html

Just to remind that we took Brandon Weeden, Manziel and Brady Quinn on the first round, so saying this time is different is not only not true but knowing the browns, its stupid.

Does Mayfield have room to maneuver if he has a season full of mistakes and bad decisions, knowing that he is far from being a consensus first round pick?

I say that not only he does not, but Dorsey and specially Hue don't also.

Looking at the decision process, there is nothing different this time, the only difference is that we decided to take the project QB for the future with the #1.

All the QB's we decided were not good enough when we started the QB project were more or less similar to TT if not even better, IMHO.

Its really annoying to see people saying this time is different, when this time is exactly what we have done.

To be different we would have selected either Darnold or Rosen or traded for Foles.

The last time we had the first pick of all QB's drafted was in 1999. So yes, this is different. You can't compare the fourth and fifth QB's selected in previous drafts to the #1 pick in this draft and say it's the same.

Baker was my third QB too, but I'm not going to sit here and claim I was right before any of these kids play a down in the NFL.

I wanted Darnold, but let's not pretend each of the QBs in this draft don't have an issue or 2 that can potentially derail their careers.

Mayfield is short. However, he didn't play short in college. He was also a 4 year starter. His accuracy and leadership are top shelf.

Darnold has that ability to create out of broken plays. He was under pressure constantly at USC. His downside is the turnovers, and also the fact that he has the "USC QB curse" working against him. He is only 20, and it will be interesting to see how he handles the pressure in NY.

Rosen takes too much damage in the pocket. He could be a very good QB otherwise.

Allen has great physical ability and size, but his accuracy ad ball placement are spotty, at best.

We picked one of 4 guys; all who could star, be just OK, or bust. An argument could be made for any of these outcomes, for any of them.