This is always a heated and strong topic. Rightfully so. Not that anyone asked, but I am torn on the issue.
I certainly have no issues on abortion when it comes to saving the mom's life, or in the cases of incest/rape.
I am torn on the issue lets say the mother wants an abortion, but the father does not. Lets say the father is willing to take the child, provide for the child, care for the child, and love the child. I feel he should have rights and say. Disagree with my opinion, that is fine, I just feel that as a father myself, I have as much right to be parent than the mother does.
I also have known a women that has had upwards of up to 6 abortions. Simply because she said shes "not good at taking BC, or making one night stands wear condoms. its a hassle and awkward conversation." so she would rather just go and get an abortion. Im not saying that this is the majority of cases that get abortions, or hinting that they are, but it does happen.
I do see the arguments given about women getting abortions even its against the law, if they want one, they will get one. As in the gun debate, more laws will not fix the problem. I see both sides a little hypocritical when comes to the gun debate and abortion. The left believes laws and restrictions on guns will end gun violence, yet says laws against abortion will just make women get abortions in back alleys because if they want one they will get one. I also those on the right that say more laws will not prevent gun shootings (which I agree:) ), yet think outlawing abortions will end abortions.
I think (hope) that instead of just snide remarks and "I am right you are wrong", we could actually hear each other out on this issue. An issue that effects millions of people all over the country.
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You won’t rest until you force women back into the back alleys, where they appearently belong
Its comments like these where you just attack someone instead of trying to understand them that we can not move forward on this issue. Sad.
I understand, but understand GM and I go way back in this. He and I have had this dance for years. I respect him and his stance. I believe he respects me. Even though he hates my stance. We’ve both come to understand neither of us will change our stances regardless of what’s said here. To clarify. I’m no fan of abortion. My hope is that it’s a decision that is very difficult to come to for those that find themselves there. My hope is that it’s a learning experience for those that go through with it. My hope is it’s the only time it’ll ever happen it that persons life. My bigger wish is that people are smarter in the bedroom. That they use other means to prevent pregnancy so that the number of abortions performed is minuscule. But my old man had a saying growing up... “Wish in one hand, crap (he used a more ‘colorful’ term) in the other. See which one fills up faster.” ...Meaning wishing for something is a wasted effort that bears no fruit. So instead I look at this rationally. People will get abortions. My desire is to keep them safe by keeping them in the medical field. Not in the underground.
You won’t rest until you force women back into the back alleys
Nobody forced ANYBODY into a back ally. They could still have choices. 1. Don't get preggers 2. Give the baby up for adoption 3. Keep the baby and raise him/her
My hope is that it’s a learning experience for those that go through with it. My hope is it’s the only time it’ll ever happen it that persons life. My bigger wish is that people are smarter in the bedroom. That they use other means to prevent pregnancy so that the number of abortions performed is minuscule.
Out of curiosity, where there more abortions committed when it was banned, or more now? Do you think people would be less careful if they couldn't easily get an abortion? Honestly question. I be the girl that is a friend of a friend that I know, would have had second thoughts of that "awkward conversation"
You won’t rest until you force women back into the back alleys
Nobody forced ANYBODY into a back ally. They could still have choices. 1. Don't get preggers 2. Give the baby up for adoption 3. Keep the baby and raise him/her
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as women die at the hands of untrained hacks
As MILLIONS of babies lives are saved.
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That’ll be a sweet sweet victorious day.
How appropriate. You post a video of five guys celebrating... taking the rights away from all women. Typical GOP’r.
Too your list... 1) Too late 2) There’s already lots of babies in the adoption/ foster care system without homes. Why add to the problem? 3) They don’t want the baby. Hence the abortion.
I understand, but understand GM and I go way back in this. He and I have had this dance for years. I respect him and his stance. I believe he respects me. Even though he hates my stance.
AMEN Portland, I respect you and your stance we just disagree. that's why neither one of us take our disagreements personal because we are not trying to degrade each other, we are simply disagreeing
My hope is that it’s a learning experience for those that go through with it. My hope is it’s the only time it’ll ever happen it that persons life. My bigger wish is that people are smarter in the bedroom. That they use other means to prevent pregnancy so that the number of abortions performed is minuscule.
Out of curiosity, where there more abortions committed when it was banned, or more now? Do you think people would be less careful if they couldn't easily get an abortion? Honestly question. I be the girl that is a friend of a friend that I know, would have had second thoughts of that "awkward conversation"
It should be difficult in that prior to having one I do believe there should be family planning counseling, adoption options should be presented, and the procedure should be very well explained. Even in an honest but graphic manor. There should also be required follow up counseling to further discuss future family planning/preventative measures. I’d even be okay with a program where upon an abortion an IUD is implanted to prevent repeat offenders. Obviously openly done, meaning the woman would know and agree to it. But make it part of the ‘package’.
I can’t speak to your friend of a friend situation. Sounds to me like there might be underlying psychological reasons that that person can’t seem to get their reproductive situation under more control. Maybe some counseling is needed. Personally I’ve known a couple girls that have had abortions. Both were in college and in no position to have a kid. Both look at the experience as a low point in their lives. Neither ever wanted to go through it again. Both had it weigh on them. Both finished college and are now excelling in their careers. One has since started a family in a stable, loving, financially able to provide situation. The other chose to never have children. Her career is off the charts, and what she does has a huge positive impact on the world as a whole. She’d never had gotten there if she’d had a kid at 19 as a freshman in college.
She’d never had gotten there if she’d had a kid at 19 as a freshman in college.
I know many women, how had children at a young age, that do just that actually. so you are wrong. Would it make it harder, absolutely.
Basically you just said, "having a kid is hard, and it will make MY LIFE harder so its ok to have an abortion". That's not really a good reason to have one.
It should be difficult in that prior to having one I do believe there should be family planning counseling, adoption options should be presented, and the procedure should be very well explained. Even in an honest but graphic manor.
And I agree with this, I wonder why places that provide abortion do not?
This should be extremely emphasized starting in junior high school.
But they should be legal.
In my opinion a neglected. unwanted child is worse than no life.
To me, the saddest thing in life is a very sick child. Mentally or physically.
This is pretty much my stance as well.. my only concern is with your last statement.. that treads dangerously close to eugenics depending on where one draws the line of "very sick child".
What did people do back in the day with handicap children?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
She’d never had gotten there if she’d had a kid at 19 as a freshman in college.
I know many women, how had children at a young age, that do just that actually. so you are wrong. Would it make it harder, absolutely.
For real she wouldn’t have gotten there as a single mom. Period. She’s at the pinnacle of her profession. It took her years of 80-100 hour type of work weeks to get where she is. Believe me I know, I was married to her...while she was married to her career. She had no time for me. She’d have had less time for a kid. So while she could have had a career and a kid, it wouldn’t be doing what she’s doing. What she’s doing is important work that makes the world a better place. I’d rather have her doing it than raising a kid. Frankly she wouldn’t have made a very good mother. Too type A. Too career focused. Kinda cold. (For clarity, I met her after college. Her abortion was prior to me.)
What did people do back in the day with handicap children?
How long ago is "back in the day"?
Say, 500 years.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The point is that I honestly can’t disagree with parents who don’t want the burden of dealing with a mentally handicapped child.
Our tech has got so advance that we can determine if a child will have severe disabilities from birth or not, while still in the womb.
Now, I’m sure everybody knows of some cute couple who takes care of their disabled child honorably. And that’s amazing.
But that is their choice to do it. If a doctor says to my wife and I that our child will be severely handicapped, we’ve already talked about that if there was indeed an option, she would want to get an abortion done.
People can be mad about that, but at the end of the day, my wife and I do not have the patience or mental toughness to raise a child that will always be dependent on someone else for the rest of his/her life.
Then, bigger picture, most handicapped children are taking in state/federal money, because it cost so much to care for those kids with those kinds of disabilities. Nevermind the abuse that the handicap sometimes find themselves involved in from the very people that are suppose to care for them.
So I don’t have a problem with it.
Also, I’ll take anti abortion people seriously once they advocate for women having sole authority on whether or not a man can get erectile dysfunction medication/treatments or not.
Since men want to determine what women can and can’t do with their own bodies, then it’s only fair that it works both ways.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yea, just letting you know I didn’t bother watching that, nor do I plan to.
If you’re not gonna actually respond to my point, then we’ll leave it be.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The point is that I honestly can’t disagree with parents who don’t want the burden of dealing with a mentally handicapped child.
Our tech has got so advance that we can determine if a child will have severe disabilities from birth or not, while still in the womb.
Now, I’m sure everybody knows of some cute couple who takes care of their disabled child honorably. And that’s amazing.
But that is their choice to do it. If a doctor says to my wife and I that our child will be severely handicapped, we’ve already talked about that if there was indeed an option, she would want to get an abortion done.
People can be mad about that, but at the end of the day, my wife and I do not have the patience or mental toughness to raise a child that will always be dependent on someone else for the rest of his/her life.
Then, bigger picture, most handicapped children are taking in state/federal money, because it cost so much to care for those kids with those kinds of disabilities. Nevermind the abuse that the handicap sometimes find themselves involved in from the very people that are suppose to care for them.
So I don’t have a problem with it.
We aren't really that far apart.. I do have a couple other fears but I won't inject those into this conversation...
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Also, I’ll take anti abortion people seriously once they advocate for women having sole authority on whether or not a man can get erectile dysfunction medication/treatments or not.
Since men want to determine what women can and can’t do with their own bodies, then it’s only fair that it works both ways.
This is a false argument.. women can vote, women can run for office, women can manage large companies, women can voice their opinions, women can write for newspapers.. women can have exactly the same amount of impact on men getting ED medication that men can have on abortion...
The point is that I honestly can’t disagree with parents who don’t want the burden of dealing with a mentally handicapped child.
As I said before I am torn on the issue. I gave instances when I think abortion would be a viable option. I am not sure I believe this is one, but I open to hear it. I posted a video, I hope you and others would watch with an open mind and heart.
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Our tech has got so advance that we can determine if a child will have severe disabilities from birth or not, while still in the womb.
We can, my wife and I had this discussion when were pregnant. We were going to keep the child regardless of that, unless it was at a severe risk to her. No because we are religious (you know I am not), or some "higher being" has written it. In your case, you had the same discussion and different decision. I guess I am ok if both parents are joined in on this decision. I am not ok with the father not having any input or say, and I am certainty not ok with this being mandated. I remembering reading an article about down syndrome being "eradicated" because they aborted them all. That's "fixing" something, by forcing that upon parents who are willing to care for it.
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Then, bigger picture, most handicapped children are taking in state/federal money, because it cost so much to care for those kids with those kinds of disabilities.
So you have an issue with someone who ACTUALLY needs assistance getting assistance, but no problem with illegal immigrants getting it.....
You can’t quote me on ever saying I was ok with illegals receiving federal funding.
Stop making things up. Crap is pathetic.
Anyway, to you and DC, I’ve made my perspective clear. I don’t think what I posted was a false argument whatsoever so we won’t ever see eye to eye.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yes. You won’t rest until you force women back into the back alleys, where they appearently belong, to have abortions performed in unsafe settings. That’ll make it all better. You’ll have won and your reign over women will be a sweet victory... as women die at the hands of untrained hacks. Or more unwanted children are born into the world. That’ll be a sweet sweet victorious day. Awesome.
Or they could show some actual self control or discipline and keep their legs closed ...
If she opens them up ... there very well could be a lifetime of consequences ...
Yes. You won’t rest until you force women back into the back alleys, where they appearently belong, to have abortions performed in unsafe settings. That’ll make it all better. You’ll have won and your reign over women will be a sweet victory... as women die at the hands of untrained hacks. Or more unwanted children are born into the world. That’ll be a sweet sweet victorious day. Awesome.
Or they could show some actual self control or discipline and keep their legs closed ...
If she opens them up ... there very well could be a lifetime of consequences ...
Sure but guys also need to stop treating women like Harvey Weinstein treated potted plants. A place to dump seed and run.
The point is that I honestly can’t disagree with parents who don’t want the burden of dealing with a mentally handicapped child.
Don't be so sure having a D.D. child is such a burden. It may be a blessing. Look bro I don't chime in when you talk about your military experience because I don't have the same experience you do, and I have no clue what I would be talking about.
I have an Aunt who is D.D. my wife has worked with folks who are D.D. for years. I have been around lots of them for all of my life. Many of them have such a love of life that they can be infectious to all those around them.
Unless they're a byproduct of a miscarriage. Then no one cares about the unborn's "life".
I have to call bullcrap on this as well. We lost a son due to a miscarriage. We still morn him all the time. Miss him each day, and look forward to meeting him in Heaven.
Unless they're a byproduct of a miscarriage. Then no one cares about the unborn's "life".
I have to call bullcrap on this as well. We lost a son due to a miscarriage. We still morn him all the time. Miss him each day, and look forward to meeting him in Heaven.
I agree. I think most mourn a miscarriage and something that carries a trauma for many years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Unless they're a byproduct of a miscarriage. Then no one cares about the unborn's "life".
I have to call bullcrap on this as well. We lost a son due to a miscarriage. We still morn him all the time. Miss him each day, and look forward to meeting him in Heaven.
I agree. I think most mourn a miscarriage and something that carries a trauma for many years.
Absolutely. And if fetuses were humans they would carry a criminal sentence as well.
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