DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns working to sign Duke Johnson to an extension

I hope we keep him too. Do you think the FO wants to see what we have with our other RB's, including Dayes, before we commit to Duke? Just a thought.

I would bet that Duke doesn't sign for anything less than $5-6 million per year average.

He would probably get that on the open market.

There are only 10 RBs in the league above $5m/year average (16 above $4m).

Bell, Freeman, McCoy, McKinnon, Fournette, Miller, Elliott, Bernard, Hyde, and Murray.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but the team would be banking on him being a full time #1 guy. I think he can be it, but I can't see us giving up that much for him.

I would have to think they know what they have in Hyde and Dayes. Dayes has been here and Hyde has enough NFL film on him to know what they have.

The only question left is what do they have in Chubb? In todays NFL #35 on a RB is saying you feel pretty confident in that pick. I would say they're pretty comfortable with Chubb at RB.

Honestly he could be a real #1 guy for two years or so before his body is broken down and likely substantially. He's your prototypical change of pace back with a little added ability to run routes, catch and dance. 5-6 million a year seems a bit high, to me, for that type of back regardless how talented/versatile I know Duke is.

On the other hand, we need known playmakers, we have the $ and Duke is great on and OFF the field, so... I don't know what to think really.

I don't spend much time researching the financial aspects of the game, but I know Duke can play and I hope he remains a Brown.

Pay the proven. Considering some of the serendipity calls by Hue and the Crow's so-so production, how much could he show. Duke is tough; keep him here. I think the OC finds ways to get more out of him in a consistent role.

Sign the man.

I like you Bard, but I disagree w/you. I think Hue used Duke almost perfectly. Duke is not an every down back. He was bothered by nagging injuries throughout his college career and has been dinged several times in the pros.

He is slight of frame. He has mad skills, but giving him a ton of touches is asking for trouble. I think he was utilized effectively and intelligently.

Johnson hasn't missed a game in his 3 year NFL career, and played 12, 8, and 13 games in college, so it looks like he had 1 season with an injury. He is 210lbs on a 5'9 frame, so I wouldn't call him slight of frame.

I'm not even calling for him to be an every down back, but he could handle 15 - 18 touches instead of 10 - 12.

Great. Thanks for voicing your opinion.

I see Duke as a Greg Pruitt type RB after injuries took Greg's ability to be an every down RB. That probably means he's not worth $5-6M that the premium RB's get. But I wouldn't mind if they give it to him anyway, because we need playmakers, and because its not my money.

Like you, Vers, but we disagree. I did not see perfect IMO. Part of what I see as needed is "player driven" calls. What is he best at? Not sure the lousy O showed him off much. He can pass block, he does his job. He was asked to do stuff that Crowell couldn't. That is why the role thing. We could use him in space, slots, a number of things. I do not see him as an all downs, always back. But he can hurt some people more than running him between the guards. I do not think Kizer made many around him better and would point to our running game which was often abandoned early.

What he is worth remains to be seen. He played tough. I label him as a keeper, and hope he is signed. There is more there than we used IMO.

I tend to agree with Vers in that is is pretty small. He isn't a between the tackles guy.

We may have been able to use him a little more as a runner, but i don't think he would hold up if given 12 carries a game plus his receiving duties.

Darren Sproles (who I feel compares most to Duke as a play maker). Signed contracts for 3.5 MM/year and then a 1 year deal for 4.5 MM/year. He's now 35 and signed for a max deal of 1.433MM for this season.

My opinion, we definitely should try and re-sign Duke. 4MM/year(ish) would be a pretty good deal.

Im gonna state a unpopular thought but sometimes you have to look beyond numbers and stats.
Yep Duke has alot of catches over 3 years.
but if your RB has the most catches on your offense over that time period thats a problem.with your offense.
I think Dukes numbers are reflective more of inept WRs
if Duke played in Pittsburgh or Atlanta i dont he amasses as many catches.
funny thing Duke while he is sure handed and fast
hes not exactly a TD machine
with Landry in the fold i expect his numbers to taper off

I think there are a lot of ways to skin a bear.

I think that talent is useful, and manages to find the field.

By the way, in an offense where our QBs played disastrous football, Duke accounted for 7 TD. He also had only 156 touches on offense.That is really strong.

You see subtraction ... I see multiplication, given a better offense.

Duke had his production in spite of the ineptness of our offense.

Great conversation.

Ver's, you used to drive me crazy on game days and post game. We were all screaming 'cuz Hue didn't run Duke more when he was having success. You were always true to the opinion that overall, Duke was used exactly as he should be. Duke is who you said he was... and that's a good thing.

We know he's not a "bell-cow" back. Very few of those in the league anymore. We don't need any one back to carry the load. Duke is a complimentary back, he makes what you're doing in the running game, and passing game, that much better.

I don't understand franchises that don't weight the entire value of a contract situation. It's more than simple x's and o's and a slide-rule that states what similar backs make.

Duke is an asset on and off the field.

Duke could be a great example of what it is to "be a Brown". He's worked hard and deserves to be rewarded. What does it say to other young players when the franchise makes a good example of someone that has "weathered the storm"?

Duke is a great shot in the arm in what our GM insists is his drug of choice in the running game... running back by committee.

Duke should make about 6 million per year (or a little more, if that's what it takes), here's why... Regardless of what similar backs make, if you feel you could get the same value on the field at 2 million less, tell me what you plan to do with the other 2 million. We're still (I don't know the number) 10s of millions under the cap, even if we weren't, ain't no franchise 2 million away from the promised land... I guess you could put hand-warmers in the bathrooms.

If you continue to use Duke the way you have, he is worth that much, or more, to other teams as well. When players flash the way he does, GMs love to lean back in their chairs and convince themselves that said player could be an absolute weapon... maybe even put them over the top. It makes them feel like the "smartest guy in the room". Not just Browns GMs fantasize about being that guy.

Bottom line, barring a terrible injury (which is possible with any player at any time), Duke will bring back his contract weight in talent or draft stock if you decide it's "not working out".

How can you compare all that upside with such little downside?

My only caveat to this point of view... Every player thinks he deserves a bigger spotlight. If Duke is sour to the RB by committee and makes negotiations unreasonable - then that's on Duke. Our FO's obligation is to do everything within reason to sign him to a deal that works for both parties... or leave me scratching my head yet again.

I completely agree with FATE. Well said.

One thing I forgot to mention, and I think it's important. Signing Duke IS a move that puts the Browns over the top in a very important category... Perfect ground to evaluate your QB position. We've complained about 20 years of "quarterbacking" knowing full well - virtually "none" were given a fighting chance... it's now, officially, put up or shut up.

like every other offensive skill guy, Duke's yet to play with a viable QB. Hopefully that changes this season and his effectiveness is even heightened

j/c:

Duke had 74 catches for almost 700 yards and 3 TDs. He added another 348 yards on the ground w/4 TDs.

He is the first back in the NFL since Hershel Walker to accumulate at least 500 yards receiving in his first 3 seasons.

The guy that Duke most compares to in the NFL is Giovani Bernard. He had 458 rushing yards, two rushing touchdowns, 43 receptions, 389 receiving yards, and two receiving touchdowns in 2017.

Another similar RB [who was drafted in the first round rather than the 3rd is Christian McCaffrey. He had 435 rushing yards, two rushing touchdowns, 80 receptions, 651 receiving yards, and five receiving touchdowns.

A guy than some think is the best back in this category is Chris Thompson from Washington. He had 294 rushing yards and two touchdowns, along with 39 receptions for a career-high 510 yards and four touchdowns.

Another guy is James White from New England. He had 43 carries for 171 yards and caught 56 passes for 429 yards and scored three touchdowns. Btw---he igned a three-year, $12 million extension with the Patriots through the 2020 season.[41][42] The contract includes $4.69 million in guarantees and an additional $3 million in incentives last year after his rookie contract expired.

I used the word "perfectly" earlier in describing how Duke has been used. Obviously, there is no way to measure "perfect." The point I'm making is that Duke has not been under-utilized at all. I think he has been handled properly. There have even been times when I thought he got a few too many touches, because I would see him struggling physically after some of his carries. Remember this: Availability is the best ability. You gotta keep a guy like Duke fresh.

am i the only one that has thought out loud we should trade coleman and let duke take his spot as WR?

j/c:


https://twitter.com/_PeteSmith_/status/1000157381433667585

adding Gordon and Landry will surely make covering Duke more difficult

Longer drives, more TOP, more snaps, I think he has upside that Hue did not get from him, part of it being Kizer turnovers. Wort paying more for more production in my opinion. Hope he doesn't have a stupid flareup.

He performs.

I'll be honest, signing Duke sounds like a great idea and we absolutely cannot NOT sign him.


But a big deal seems like something we may regret.

I can't see Duke's agent even bothering to listen to sub $4-mil/year offers and is more likely wanting $5 mil/year.

James White is $4 mil
Theo Reddick is $3.8-ish mil
Giovani Bernard is raking the Bengals at 5.5 mil

IMO, Johnson is better than that group.

Not to mention we signed Hyde to what... just over $5 mil/year??

4-years/ $19 million. That is just the way it is now. Pass-catching RB's.

heck chubb cost us more than any of the ones you put up and he never played a nfl down lol

Not even close. Chubb signed a 4 year deal with about 7.4m or about 1.85m/year. That's less than half of the guys mentioned.

https://overthecap.com/player/nick-chubb/6920

what about the 16m that we paid for the draft pick? like i said he cost alot already....

Completely unrelated.

Or if you want to get into that, you have to go all the way. Who did we cut to free up cap space that allowed that trade? Add those salaries in too. Keep going back to 99 and you'll get to Chubb being the highest paid player in NFL history.

The fact is that his average salary is ~1.85m/year and that is less than 1/2 of the ones referred to above.

The pick didn’t cost us 16 million ... some of it was to pay for BO ... ...

Just for reference. Only 10 running backs in the league average more than $5m/year on their current deals. Of these, only one had more receptions than Duke last year. And of these, all 10 had had more carries than Duke (all but one had more than twice his carries). More power to him if he can get that much money.

you want to think that 2nd round pick came from something that happen in 1999 go ahead.. i sure cant argue with that logic...

Bernard is being overpaid, but is very similar to Duke. I'm guessing [and I'm not good w/the financial stuff] that Duke might get close to $4.5 million.

Jerrick McKinnon just signed a deal in SF ... I think Duke will want a similar one

I also see Duke wanting from the Browns a deal similar to what McKinnon received in SF. I think McKinnon was overpaid a tad, but it all depends on how SF utilizes him. If I am Duke, I don't sign unless the money is way too good to pass up. He'll have a market, and winning teams will be interested.

I read most of the thread a while back and haven't bothered to go back through it recently, but consider that Duke has won 4 games in 3 years. These guys are professionals, but winning counts for more than many people think. On the open market, he's probably worth 4 years/$18 MM/$12 MM guaranteed based on receiving ability alone. I think the Browns need to overpay and offer at least 4 years/$25 MM/$18 guaranteed. And I think they absolutely should do it.

I consider Hyde a one-year rental based solely on contract. That leaves you with Chubb and Duke for the next four years. Averaging out the cost of their respective salaries makes the resources committed to the group palatable.

The most important thing in my opinion is that our #1 overall QB develops into a star. Overpaying his supporting cast, especially while he's on his bargain rookie contract, is an investment towards that.

The only problem I see with comparing it to the McKinnon contract is that the way the McKinnon contract is structured many see it far more as a one year deal. Most feel that San Fran has no intention of keeping him for four years on that deal, nor do I.

I would hope that if Duke signs a deal it will be structured and the pay level will be done in such a way that it will signal it is actually a four year deal and not so outrageous we'll know it will never come to fruition.