DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft The case for Saquon Barkley part 2

I'm just not sold on work out warriors. I go by the tape. I don't see a between the tackles guy. The film isn't there. He seems to always bounce it outside.

I'm not saying he's going to be bad. He may be very good. But if I'm an NFL scout, which I'm not, lol, I have to look at the film to see what I've got.

That video is hard to watch. Cringey, almost.

First, the cleaning 405 part is impressive. I wouldn't really call it a power clean, that is more like a full squat clean, but impressive for a non-weightlifter nonetheless.

It's the "looking up" (hyperextended neck), poor rack position (forearms vertical, wrists cocked back) and worst of all, some doofus who actually puts his hand on his back while the guy has 405 racked. Where is the strength coach when all this is going on?

Great athlete though, don't mind my critique.

Per SI.

"There are reasons he’s being hailed by some as the perfect NFL prospect, lauded equally for his generational ability and his estimable character. Most scouts agree he is the best college running back they’ve seen in at least a decade or two—if not ever. One NFL team official told The MMQB’s Peter King that Barkley is only the fifth prospect in the last 20 years to whom he has given a perfect grade."

I'd still pass and take Guice at 33.
Hyde, Guice and Duke for me...

Once again, I go by the film. Nothing on film has shown me a between the tackles RB. Nothing.

So people can give me quotes from so called gurus, film of him lifting weights and all the other hype out there. That's fine if that's how they actually gauge recruits.

I gauge them based on the tape. I'm not saying he can't do it. But thus far his propensity is to break it outside. That's his nature and what he does. All the hyperbole and weight lifting doesn't change that.

I was listening to NFL network radio on the way home from work last night and they had the guys from PFF on, they were talking about the RBs and their ability to gain yards after being hit at or behind the line of scrimmage and their #1 RB was Penny from San Diego St., Barkley was 58th on that list.

I hear you on all counts... and I was cringing just watching how he was approaching the bar, much less everything else.
The Clean/Power Clean thing -- eh, I think the hip crease stays ever so slightly above the knee, so I give it to him on a technicality, lol

On that front rack position, though... standing it up with such poor form actually speaks even more to his strength, I think (as does dumbazz smacking him on the back). Crazy strong.
His form on the clean itself was pretty decent. Knees go back, good & snappy second pull with a very explosive 3rd... and he is FAST under the bar. That said, he feet get sloppy and go too wide on the catch; that's a flexibility thing (as is the elbows on the front rack... likely due to working up monster triceps and no stretching them enough).

You can find examples of why he should bounce it outside.......... sometimes.

But what you can't do is show why he bounces it outside far most of the time.

He has shown a lack of ability to run between the tackles.

Also, if you look at his yards after contact stats, he rates very poorly.

I see more Tent Richardson than I do Adrien Peterson.

Now you can disagree and try to act like i know nothing about evaluating RB's all you like. But Dorsey found the best back in the NFL draft in the class in round three.

When a kid doesn't run it up the middle and gets very few yards after contact, I don't see Dorsey falling for that.

We'll only find out after these kids play for a while no matter what you have to say. I think the kid is fools gold.

Just keep ranting tab. It shows you lack of comprehension.

I plainly stated the only way we will know if he's a good NFL RB is to watch him play in the NFL. And nothing you say will change that.

when Fitz is leading an NFL D and Barkley is an average NFL RB, get back to me. Because all you did was spout off too.

All you need to do is look back in this very thread to see that Barkley ranked #58 in yards after contact. That's pretty bad. Maybe your eyes are deceiving you?

For a RB to be successful running between the tackles, on a play that is designed to be run inside the tackles,...he has to be able to process the information of his blockers in regards to their leverage on their defensive players that they are engaged with and also identifying the free (LBs' & DB's) defenders position.

A mature RB can process this information quickly and can anticipate where (if any) crease will form.

Conversely an imature RB, no matter what his skill set might be, will not see the crease developing and will then revert to ad living on the play.

This is easily evaluated on a body of work.

Keeping in mind that even the best RBs' do not always make the most mature decision on every given play, so you need a body of work to know if this is a mistake or a tendency.

Typically an imature RB coming out of the draft, might be better suited out of the gate, in a zone spread blocking scheme, especially if said RB is also a threat as a receiver.

I think the world of you too tab. I really do.

What concerns me even more than running between the tackles is his "yards after contact" stats. Now I'm not big on stats. Never have been. But when you rank 58th at it, at that point it becomes a huge concern for me.

And don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to say my opinion is gospel. It's just what I've seen and I have to trust what I've seen. We just have two distinctly different opinions on the kid. He's a great kid. He has a lot of talent. We just see his potential as an NFL RB differently. No big deal.

Am I reading this right?

Saquon Barkley makes more money per year than any running back in the league not named Leveon Bell?

This is why you don't take running backs #1 overall.

He's not signed yet.

lol ok, so when he signs which is an inevitability he will be the highest paid running back under contract in the NFL.

Dunno.

He'll get a #2 overall slotted contract, but whether or not that's the 2nd highest among NFL RBs, I can't say.

I would think that Freeman and LeSean McCoy will probably have higher contracts as well. McKinnon just got a big deal too. I have little doubt that Barkley will probably be top 5. RB contracts have really declined in recent years. (we added Hyde for $5 million per year, or so)

All I have to do is look at the fact that Fournette and Zeke have the two biggest contracts in the NFL to know.


Freeman may be the biggest CAP hit, but it's splitting hairs, you're giving a rookie top3 money at the position and hasn't played a down.

Compare that to any other position Especially QB. It's stupid to not take a QB when you have the #1 pick and an abomination to take a RB.

Spotrac
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Saquon Barkley’s $31M guaranteed w/ the #Giants is the 2nd most all-time for a RB.

A. Peterson: $36M
S. Barkley: $31M
C. Johnson: $30M
L. Fournette: $27M
R. Bush: $26M

https://twitter.com/spotrac/status/989897489221234688

This is insane and was also one of the reasons I gave for not wanting Barkley months ago. It throws the salary structure all out of whack.

Eli gonna have a resurgent year.

Or poop the bed.

They are going to love the next two years and then will have wished they took a QB. Especially if ANY of the 3 QBS they didn't take are good. They better win.

jc//some random thoughts:

The top of the draft really through me for a loop. I knew the Browns would take a QB at the top of the draft. That much was assumed. I thought it would be Darnold, but in retrospect, maybe the Mayfield pick shouldn't have been all that surprising. There were signs - I just didn't want to see them.

Barkley at #2 was a shock. The Barkley fanboys are going to have to forgive me but this pick still doesn't make any sense. Manning is 37 and regressing. This was their chance to grab their QB of the future and they let him go to their cross-town rivals. All this to grab a RB and pay him among the best backs in the league when good RBs are a dime a dozen in the draft, free agency, and trades for a small fraction of the investment.

This brings me to Tom Coughlin. Has there ever been a more underrated football guy? He's in Jacksonville of course.. but that's the point. That franchise turned around just as soon as he took over. He hired an outstanding coach, and turned the franchise around from a bottom feeder to darn near beating the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game.

Meanwhile the Giants took a tumble, finishing with the second worst record in the league while botching Eli Manning's benching and unbenching. In fact, it almost seemed like picking Barkley was their way of not offending poor Eli, even though picking a QB was in the clear best interest of the franchise.

I said from day 1 he'd go to the GMen. NY is about making a splash. SB was a splash. They'll find a mercenary QB later.

That offensive line is 100x better than it was at the end of the season. The offense is going to be fine, but their defense needs work. They can be competitive and Saquon will definitely help the first few years.

There were definitely some people who said SB would go to the Giants. I give you guys credit. That's another thing where the signs were there and I just didn't want to see it.

I still don't think it was a good pick. Now time will tell and if he becomes the next Marshall Faulk and Darnold (or whoever they would have drafted) busts, then so be it. Sometimes that's how the draft goes. I think they goofed up, making the oft-made mistake of thinking how the pick will affect the team in the short-term and not so much down the line. Does anybody see Eli playing at a high level when he's 40? He's not even playing at a high level now...

Their GM Gettleman said there was a reasonable offer on the table for the #2 pick as well. If he wasn't going to take Darnold for whatever reason, he probably should have taken that instead.

I don't get this logic, honestly...

RB NFL life is shorter, but they also have a major impact on the game.

SB was clearly the best player in this draft, and should have been taken 1st, I know I would...

And if I would bet, I would say that he will not only have an higher impact but also a longer career than BM...

He might be the next Walter Payton but if Eli retires and they don't have a better option than Ryan Nassib, they will still win 5 games... (Unless Nassib is much better than I give him credit for)

I think you can make the argument that a RB taken early in the first round has a much better boom:bust ratio than does a QB (though I have to admit to doing 0 research to reach that conclusion).. it is a much safer pick... but it's not a winning formula if you don't have a QB..

"And if I would bet, I would say that he will not only have an higher impact but also a longer career than BM..."

You are assuming Baker is a flop then ? If he becomes the starter and lives up the no 1 pick then no way a RB of ANY talent lasts longer then a starting QB.

The Giants have one of the better fanbases in football, by far.

I live in Fairfield County, which boarders Westchester County (in CT). So we are Giants/Jets country. And I'll say, I really respect the Giants fanbase. They don't seem to get as much talk in the local media, but they are the most loyal of the bunch.

When PSL's needed to be sold at MetLife Stadium, the Giants had no problem. I feel like the Jets fanbase, while more vocal, is nowhere near the fanbase the Giants have. And Phil Simms, he was my first favorite football player.

Although I'm partial to the Jets because when the Browns left Cleveland, Parcells came to the Jets, and I decided that would be my new team. Parcells was a legend. And as a kid in 5th Grade and then Middle School. Keyshawn Johnson, Wayne Cherbet and Bill Parcells quickly won me over. After that, Curtis Martin very quickly became my favorite player in football. He's very underrated. Phenomenal, steady player. With Testaverde joining up, that team was a blast.

With the Browns coming back, I strayed from the Jets. But I still root for both local teams when the Browns aren't playing (and in the playoffs of course)

FYI Nassib moved on to the Saints, then was moved to the unemployment line. Not sure if anyone else picked him up. This info doesn't change what you posted (imo) because their backup is Webb and the kid they drafted this year.

Kyle Luletta or whatever his name is.

Eli Manning - Davis Webb - Kyle Lauletta

The Giants are staking their future on Pat Shurmur, Saquon Barkley, and Eli Manning. If you were an Eagles fan, would this concern you? Even a little bit?

As an Eagle fan, I would be thrilled. A QB with diminishing skills and all you'll have to do is stop the run.

Yup. Although Giants fans seem to be excited about Davis Webb. But that doesn't mean much when you haven't seen much of a guy.

Jets fans were excited about Bryce Petty before he started seeing actual real game playing time