DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Jury awards $4 to family of black man killed by sheriff’s deputies in Fla.

I did not mention the shot through the garage door because it has no significance. As you have noted, it is not bulletproof. It constitutes no safety factor to alleviate the threat.

The only significance it does have is that it constitutes a significant effort to evade capture and resist arrest.

YOU introduced the running man as a hypothetical. I augmented YOUR hypothetical to make it more similar to the situation being discussed, in order to more clearly define correct law enforcement action.

I then posed YOUR hypothetical in a way to be clearly and carefully different in all the important parameters from the current situation, and again defined appropriate action.

Drunk dude with a gun does not just close the door on the cops and expect them to walk away, problem solved.

The gun likely started in his back pocket, somewhat unclear, it did end up in his back pocket, with fair certainty, however where it was in between and how close his hand came to it is unknown.

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but you seem to think there is some significance in the garage door being closed. It is considered "inside your house", IF it is attached by a common wall, if a separate building, then it is not. However, being "inside your house" has no bearing whatsoever on this incident.

A jury with all the facts agrees with me, and not you.

I've read a bunch of articles on this and most have omitted key facts from the case. Which facts have been left out depend on which narrative the publication is trying to push.

From what I gather, the police officers said that Hill had a gun in his hand, pointed it at the officers, wouldn't follow orders to drop it and was shot as he was closing the garage door. Is it possible that this happened, and he put the gun back in his pocket after being shot?

Is there any audio or video of what happened? For example officers calling out 'gun!' in real time and then finding a gun on the man after the fact would give credence to the officers' account but that is just a hypothetical.

Hill's daughter said he didn't point the gun at the officers but she was across the street, not sure how far away (yet another detail that has been hard to find.)

Thats why I said in my original comment, if the facts stated in the article are correct

Of course the police are going to say he pointed a gun at them , but the fact that the gun was in his back pocket was in the court evidence.The guy was killed by a shot to the head. These facts are notdisputed. But I am just having trouble beiieving the guy pointed the gun, closed the garage door, got shot in the head,put the gun in his back pocket, and then died .

Yes I do, it was in his pocket.. unless you want to argue that he had it out and stuck it back in his pocket after being shot multiple times..


First, the dude was heading back into his house... not for a large crowd of small children... I rarely say this but you are just making stuff up. Going back into the house was making those children far safer..

You are in the front yard, you shoot through the garage door in the direction of the house.. how exactly are the kids at the school, which is behind you, in any danger from any stray round coming from your gun?

At the bottom of this post is a link to an article with a photo of the garage door.. I'd like you to tell me how the officer was aiming for a headshot.. unless he has some kind of x-ray vision going on which allows him to see straight through an aluminum garage door..


How was he posing a threat to small children?


I would like you to show me the link in which it says he was belligerent.. the few articles I've read all said he opened the door, saw the police, began closing the door...

This article is neat, it actually has a picture of the garage door. Not sure why but I had assumed the garage door was only partially closed.. from this photo, it looks like it was fully closed.. and the officers were firing blind into a closed aluminum garage door... Did the officers know there weren't any kids in the house behind him? Did they know his girlfriend wasn't behind him? Seems to me that the police put anybody who may have been in that house in extreme danger... and they had no idea who or how many might have been in that house...

I guess you have never seen somebody try to subdue me on a Monday afternoon

From the article:



So now drinking in the privacy of your own home not only makes you a menace to society but it also means cops can kill you with you being 99% at fault.

The video on that article tells the story. One cop yelled gun, the other immediately opened fire. Gun was in his back pocket and they killed him through a shut door.

This guy was definitely guilty of 'Living while Black'. Cops rectified that situation.

Link



Still a tragedy, but having a gun while on probation and the rest of that history probably contributed to the officers' sense of danger. I'm also curious as the the garage closing. Did he slam it shut? It's mentioned being "pulled."

What all was said?

That article mentions a four hour stand off as well, so I don't think they showed up with the intention of violence.

Sad.

I wish the cops had been wearing body cams. that would have answered a lot of questions about the shooting.

So being drunk and having a firearm on your person had nothing to with it? In most States this is illegal and you can be arrested.

It wasn't the loud obscene music being blasted in front of school children which in some states is illegal.

It wasn't the fact by closing the door he was resisting arrest / eluding police. Which is illegal.

4 times over limit drunk with a firearm loud obscene music in front of a school with children being let out and eluding police had nothing to do with it.

It was because he was black?

Vambo, every single thing you said is true, at the least this guy was not very bright and was probably going back to jail for violating any number of different laws..... now point to which one of those is cause for officers to shoot him through a closed garage door....

General question but the officers didn't have a name, they had an address.. they were rolling up on a noise complaint.. would they have pulled his entire criminal history first?


Pulled down, like any standard overhead garage door without an automatic opener... I have no idea how much force he used to pull it down.


This is the first I've heard about this. Which article did you see that in? My understanding was they rang the doorbell, after a short period the garage door opened, almost immediately the garage door closed and they fired. I was under the impression this whole thing was over in a matter of minutes.. if you have information to the contrary, I'd like to read it. Thanks.

The link is right there in the post that you replied to. You will, however, need to demonstrate a much higher level of reading comprehension than your previous questions to me have demonstrated. In addition to already being addressed and answered, several of your questions were completely absurd and nonsensical, strongly indicating that you either did not read the previous posts or you did not understand what all the words mean.

Vambo, slight correction, you stated he was 4 times the legal limit, he was, instead, FIVE (5) times the legal limit.

The full story appears to be significantly different than what was indicated in the earlier reports. This would be why I referenced the EIGHT (8) men and women with much more information who spent TEN (10) hours deliberating and came up with a much more informed decision than what the ignorant flapping yaps were able to achieve.

Closing the garage door was eluding arrest which I believe is a felony.

We don't know exactly what happened during that time, you can speculate make up scenarios but it is unclear from what was reported to make a definite determination.

You could guess he had the gun in his hand and when he went to close the door he slipped it into his back pocket or you could say he never had taken from his pocket but what we do know he was drunk with a firearm around school children which may of caused officers to shoot him through a closed garage door.

It shouldn't, he was inside his own home.



It's called disturbing the peace. That's not a capitol offense.



We'll never know his side of the story, will we? He was shot dead before he could explain.



By closing his garage door?




Yep, most likely.

so if he was drunk with a firearm around school children, doesn't that mean the officers were putting the children at risk by firing at him?

cause the cops were the ones who fired first, right? not the suspect?

Yep ....that justifies shooting him dead right then and there.

Nope not at all they are trained for those types of scenarios.

If the man was white would you be asking all these questions?

Endangering school children played a big part as well as other things he did.

Had they not have and he had shot several children would you then blame the police for not acting more aggressively?

i asked a whopping one question. why are you lying again?

so far, i havent seen anything to justify why he was actually shot.

you guys keep posting about his priors, but priors doesnt = him getting shot.

closing a garage door to his own house isnt justification to getting shot.

What I posted happened that day per the article.

Eluding police while drunk with a firearm is.

The jury found enough evidence to say it was a just shooting aim your anger toward them they had ALL the facts to make their determination.

Now you're justifying a death penalty with the speculation of a school shooting.

Frankly I think he's dead because he was black

First of all, I've read a TON of material on ANY shooting I hear about. From there I try to put myself on both sides. In nearly every one of those shootings, I can see why the police acted in the way they did...even if I didn't agree with swiftness of their actions or even use of lethal force...I can see why, in a high stress/quick decision situation, they acted the way they did.

In this situation, I just don't see it. Why not back away from the property and NOT fire into the garage. He wasn't threatening nor harming anyone from his garage. ***Only catch here was the proximity from the school.*** I don't see how the police weren't at fault in this. Why take lethal force for a music violation of someone at their OWN home?

Then there is a jury awarding an insulting amount.

There are so many issues with this and it is such a tragedy this man is dead.

I'm not a BLM fan AT ALL. I think they are a borderline terrorist organization and were responsible for killing cops in Dallas two years ago. However, I get the outrage on this.

We need to make sure both sides are heard, truthfully, and that justice is done. When justice is not served, the system fails. And our system is failing, piece by piece.

running from the cops doesnt justify being shot.

i've always been upset with the jury and the criminal justice system as a whole.

im upset at you defending this, as if juries haven't made nonsense decisions before....ever.

so the cops shot at a guy they said was holding a weapon that was found in his back pocket.

thats what the article states. so the guy didn't point the weapon at the cops. the gun was also unloaded.

he didn't threaten anyones life in the process.

the original call was over loud music.

those are all FACTS that your own article on the first page stated.

i dont see anywhere in that scenario were force was necessary. did the cop fear for his life when he saw a garage door closing? was his foot in danger of being crushed or something?

the whole situation is sad, and only further proves why minority communities refuse to trust or work with law enforcement.

The jury justified the shooting with the evidence presented them.

I'm just giving scenarios from what limited information I have. I don't know what "Murica" is. I could not find it in the English dictionary.

If you have more information than what has been supplied to us I'll be glad to read it as long as it is in english.

Was he drunk with a gun? = lives being threatened.

The call was over loud OBSCENE music while children were being let out of school.

Once it was determined he had a gun and add being drunk everyone's life there was in danger.

Eluding the police didn't help his situation had he listen and given himself up things would have been different.

Why didn't he just give himself up? At that point he had to know they were not going away.

how was lives being threatened?

if thats the case, there's a lot of country white boys who deserve to get shot everyday in the country because theyre drunk with a weapon.

yet that's not happening.

again, loud music, no matter how obscene it is, isn't a reason to shoot someone.

why didn't he give himself up? why did the cops decide to discharge their weapon over a non violent encounter?

vambo you consistently find any reason to defend these cops shooting black people. if this was some white boy, you and the NRA would be all over the cops demanding retribution.

Not sure, find a similar story about a white guy and we can discuss it.

I still don't get how it can be justifiable that a guy, drunk in his own house, gets shot because he has a gun in his back pocket and closes a garage door.


Sure, the cops showed up because of loud obscene music, but for godsakes, the guy was shot through his own garage door, and he never pulled the gun out of his pocket.

The one thing I have a question about, is whether he legally had the firearm. When they showed up to his house, did they know what he looked like/if he had a criminal past.

A firearm that you know is illegally is far different than a guy drinking alcohol with a gun. Because, there's plenty of people who drink and carry. It's quite terrifying, but it's a lot more prevalent than I think most people think. Especially inside their OWN home.

Because, that's the other thing I don't think people get. Whether he was near a school or not, he was in his own damn house. But, if he's a felon or on probation or something like that, clearly he should never have had a firearm whether drunk or sober, and that does raise the threat level



I just think it's crazy. Had this been a white person, I bet the NRA and the small government/individual liberty folks would be all over this. Whatever happened to, a man's home is a man's castle?

I always love the "you are just too stupid to understand why I'm right" part of the argument...

5 times the legal limit of what? There is a legal limit to how drunk you can be in your own home?

and the reference to the 4 hour stand off , I think this was after they shot into the closed garage door because they didnt know he was dead inside the garage. Let that simk in for a minute . They fired blindly(which is against policy into a garage door with having no idea what was behind it

The jury defended the cops.

Anyone who is drunk with a firearm is a danger to themselves and others regardless the color of skin or gender.

Why did he do all the illegal things he did that day?

I defend the cops when I believe they are in the right regardless of race, it's not a race thing for me as it is for you.

I have no connection to the NRA. But you and the Black Panthers are all about blaming cops.

Getting drunk on your own front porch is not illegal, rules US court

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...s-10318074.html

seeing as the guy was inside his house, this only affirms that.

It's not as whole as it once was. We are divided. Hence we got the "Murica" factor now.

Eluding arrest , did they have an arrest warrant for him? When was he placed under, or told he was being placed under arrest? If the cops come to my door and I dotn want to talk to them I can legally close the door on them unless they have a warrant of sone sort, either an arrest or a search warrant

juries has sent innocent people to jail all the time, and also defended cops more often than not.

just because a jury said something doesn't mean they are correct. if that was remotely true, then you should be able to explain why people are getting released for wrongful convictions.

you take whatever the government and their hand picked people tell you at face value. this is why we will never see eye to eye.

like...ever.

again, nothing he did justified being shot. you keep posting everything else, except the one thing you cant do is explain what reasoning the cops had for actually shooting the guy.

he didn't threaten anyones life. he didn't point a gun at the cops.

its quite pathetic of you and others to defend this nonsense. but i expect nothing less from the guys who claim to stand up against government tyranny, only to do tuck their tails in between their legs and accept whatever the jack booted thugs tell them.

5X the legal limit is he was 5X over the limit for being legally drunk which in its self in your own home is not a crime but add in brandishing a firearm loud and obscene music around grade school children drunk with a gun and eluding police drunk with a gun...let that sink in for a moment. Can't think of a reason a person would put them self in that situation and then try to elude police drunk with a gun.

again, 5 times the legal limit of WHAT

he wasn't drinking and driving. he can get as drunk as he wants in his own home.

they had no warrant, which means the guy wasn't obligated to talk to the cops AT ALL.

Everything he did was illegal.

He put the lives of children in mortal danger.

He put the lives of his neighbors in danger.

He put police officers lives in danger.

If you come up with any new information we can talk more but you are stuck he's innocent because he's black.

And here I thought you promoted people being allowed to have weapons in their own home? Of course I guess that would mean you can't drink in your home? Somehow I thought these were things that you considered as rights and especially on your own property.

I guess having the right to listen to music on your own property may be the issue?