I think that it's great that such employment opportunities are available in your area. However, once again, "your area" isn't the standard of the nation. And maybe I wasn't accurate in describing it as "minimum wage". I rarely ever worked for minimum wage even as a very young adult. As a matter of fact, not a lot as a teenager.
But no matter how you slice it and dice it, even at two dollars above minimum wage you can't make a living on a 40 hour paycheck and it's not even an arguable stance to try to say that minimum wage holds nearly the same buying power as it did in the 70's. That's a non starter in the conversation.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I don't know. Sooner or later it will hurt some more than us.
We are a consumer nation....a big consumer. We don't produce nearly as much as we once did.
Maybe the President wants us to fire up the furnaces more and import less?
I don't know. Sure it will cost more, we don't pay people a few dollars a day.
It's an entire catch #22. Our nation isn't going to advance by going backwards. Our labor force makes far too much money to try and compete in making clothes and shoes anymore. I mean it's a great memory of the past but certainly not realistic moving forward.
Since the beginning of our nation new markets, new products and innovation have created an ever changing market and until we quit looking over our shoulders at how it used to be and look forward to the future, we'll be stagnant and unhappy.
Quote:
I don't know if you know this, but middle Tennessee had maybe 100 shoe manufactures 30 years ago. If any are left, it's not many....No more Buster Brown or Thom McCann.....you remember those brands. Most of the plants are probably still there. Just the jobs and people aren't.
I actually didn't know that. However, I come from an area of heavy manufacturing. I watched it fall by the wayside much the way you describe what happened here. But Tennessee is on the leading edge of bringing jobs back to this state. They are the prime example of what our nation should be looking at moving forward.
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I don't like President Trump a whole lot, but he is pro USA and wants to bring jobs back here. Not just high tech jobs, but jobs for the average Joe and Jane.
I think that's a noble idea in theory. However, I think the American people are being sold a bill of goods. Maybe Trump doesn't realize exactly what he's doing or he's simply living in the past and doesn't have a realistic vision of the future. Or maybe, just maybe he is purposefully selling that warm, fuzzy feeling of the past full well knowing that that will never be.
You see, Tennessee, as much as some of those damned Yankees would like to say otherwise, is a leading example of what will make America great in the future. While I'm not as optimistic about the field running for Governor now, Haslam is the best Governor I've ever seen in my lifetime.
He understands the changing market and the changing world economy. He understands that by investing in your future work force, you reap the rewards of that investment by attracting jobs and investment from the private sector into your state. You provide two free years of college to your students so future employers know you have educated and well trained employees there to hire to make it attractive to business.
Quote:
That is what has happened to the middle class and the widening wage gap. It's not CEO's making more. It's the average person who once could make a living wage producing some product, be it shoes, cars, steel, or whatever not having jobs anymore.
And they won't have "those jobs" anymore. The numbers will never work to make that happen. Trade wars aren't going to fix that.
Heading our nation in the exact same direction as Tennessee will prepare people for the jobs of the future. Green energy jobs, not coal. Technical jobs, not widgets. The world is in constant flux. The only constant in life is change. Unless and until our people realize that in a manner to move forward instead of trying to hang on to things from the past, this isn't going to work.
Let's face it Peen, our nation was built on the backs of slaves and cheap immigrant labor. That's how we achieved economic greatness. Until workers began to unionize and stand up for themselves they had kids working in factories for nothing more than change 16 hours a day. It took four people working in a household just to pay rent and eat. That's how this nation was actually built.
I don't want to go back that far.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Interesting article that was on NPR this morning. What was surprising was that there have already been 19,000 applications to the Dept. Of Commerce for exemptions.
Got Lobster? Trump's Steel Tariffs Threaten Trap Industry
Listen· 3:52 3:52
Queue Download
June 21, 2018·5:04 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition Craig LeMoult FromWGBH Radio The steel used to build lobster traps like these, stacked up outside a fish market on Martha's Vineyard, is getting pricier, thanks to new tariffs.
John Greim/LightRocket via Getty Images
China is threatening to impose new tariffs on lobsters from the U.S. in what could be the latest volley in a growing trade war. But the American lobster industry is already starting to feel the impact of steel tariffs imposed by the Trump administration.
Bob Morris opens the bulkhead doors to his basement in Rockport, Massachusetts, and heads down into his workshop. Morris is a lifelong lobsterman, and when he's not out hauling lobster traps, he's building them in his basement.
When he first started making lobster traps at age nine, the crates were made of wood and rope. But back in the 1980s, practically the entire industry switched to traps made out of wire grids.
"It's got to be nearly 100 percent wire pots today in the lobster industry," says Morris.
And here's where the new tariffs come in: that wire is made of steel.
Many lobster traps are built from steel mesh made at Riverdale Mills in Northbridge, Massachusetts.
CEO James Knott, Jr. shows me around. He points to three-ton coils of steel wire, stacked four high on the factory floor. "So this is the raw material that we start with this is called wire rod. And it's a hot rolled long product," Knott says.
That wire gets stretched out, welded into a grid, galvanized, and coated in plastic. That wire mesh is then turned into lobster traps and other products, including security fencing. Knott says if they can, the company gets its raw steel here in the U.S., but it's become much harder to come by since President Trump started talking about tariffs.
"The prices for the wire rod from first quarter this year to right now have almost doubled," he says.
So they've been ordering some from Canada. But now they have to pay a 25 percent tariff on that Canadian steel. And since the tariffs don't apply to partially finished products, just the raw material, Knott says he's worried about competitors from Europe and China shipping in steel that they've already made into wire mesh.
"What's probably going to evolve over the next 120 days or so is people will stop placing orders with us and start placing orders with foreign suppliers who compete with us making similar products," Knott says.
Riverdale Mills has requested an exemption from the tariffs — one of nearly 19,000 exemption requests that the Commerce Department has received. Knott is s a self-described free-trader and lifelong Republican, and he says the tariffs aren't well thought out.
"It's going to hurt a lot of people," says Robert Bayer is the Executive Director of the Lobster Institute at the University of Maine.
In the lobster industry, it's not just companies like Riverdale Mills that are going to feel that pain. Lobster traps are going to become more expensive, whether they're made with American steel or foreign products. And that hits the lobstermen, who can't raise their prices to make up for it, he says.
"The price of lobster is based on supply and demand. And it's not related to your costs as a fisherman," Bayer adds.
Trap builder Bob Morris says he's a loyal American who wouldn't think of buying a foreign wire mesh. So he's going to have to charge more.
"Now as a trap builder it's going to be uncomfortable to look a fisherman in the eye and say, 'Well, what cost you this last year is now that.' "
And the tariffs have also put Morris in a tough spot as a Trump supporter.
"Alls I can say about it is, I hope you know what you're doing," he says.
Morris says he's hoping Trump has a strategy that's going to pan out — that the tariffs will strengthen the economy in the long run.
"I'm going to bear the brunt of it, I'm going to hope and pray for the best for our country, our corporations like Riverdale and the workers there, the fishermen, everybody. But if it goes awry, I'll stand and I'll be the first one to admit that I was wrong in supporting that."
For now, he says, he's putting his faith in the president.
April Fulton and Evie Stone contributed to this report.
Interesting article that was on NPR this morning. What was surprising was that there have already been 19,000 applications to the Dept. Of Commerce for exemptions.
Got Lobster? Trump's Steel Tariffs Threaten Trap Industry
Listen· 3:52 3:52
Queue Download
June 21, 2018·5:04 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition Craig LeMoult FromWGBH Radio The steel used to build lobster traps like these, stacked up outside a fish market on Martha's Vineyard, is getting pricier, thanks to new tariffs.
John Greim/LightRocket via Getty Images
China is threatening to impose new tariffs on lobsters from the U.S. in what could be the latest volley in a growing trade war. But the American lobster industry is already starting to feel the impact of steel tariffs imposed by the Trump administration.
Bob Morris opens the bulkhead doors to his basement in Rockport, Massachusetts, and heads down into his workshop. Morris is a lifelong lobsterman, and when he's not out hauling lobster traps, he's building them in his basement.
When he first started making lobster traps at age nine, the crates were made of wood and rope. But back in the 1980s, practically the entire industry switched to traps made out of wire grids.
"It's got to be nearly 100 percent wire pots today in the lobster industry," says Morris.
And here's where the new tariffs come in: that wire is made of steel.
Many lobster traps are built from steel mesh made at Riverdale Mills in Northbridge, Massachusetts.
CEO James Knott, Jr. shows me around. He points to three-ton coils of steel wire, stacked four high on the factory floor. "So this is the raw material that we start with this is called wire rod. And it's a hot rolled long product," Knott says.
That wire gets stretched out, welded into a grid, galvanized, and coated in plastic. That wire mesh is then turned into lobster traps and other products, including security fencing. Knott says if they can, the company gets its raw steel here in the U.S., but it's become much harder to come by since President Trump started talking about tariffs.
"The prices for the wire rod from first quarter this year to right now have almost doubled," he says.
So they've been ordering some from Canada. But now they have to pay a 25 percent tariff on that Canadian steel. And since the tariffs don't apply to partially finished products, just the raw material, Knott says he's worried about competitors from Europe and China shipping in steel that they've already made into wire mesh.
"What's probably going to evolve over the next 120 days or so is people will stop placing orders with us and start placing orders with foreign suppliers who compete with us making similar products," Knott says.
Riverdale Mills has requested an exemption from the tariffs — one of nearly 19,000 exemption requests that the Commerce Department has received. Knott is s a self-described free-trader and lifelong Republican, and he says the tariffs aren't well thought out.
"It's going to hurt a lot of people," says Robert Bayer is the Executive Director of the Lobster Institute at the University of Maine.
In the lobster industry, it's not just companies like Riverdale Mills that are going to feel that pain. Lobster traps are going to become more expensive, whether they're made with American steel or foreign products. And that hits the lobstermen, who can't raise their prices to make up for it, he says.
"The price of lobster is based on supply and demand. And it's not related to your costs as a fisherman," Bayer adds.
Trap builder Bob Morris says he's a loyal American who wouldn't think of buying a foreign wire mesh. So he's going to have to charge more.
"Now as a trap builder it's going to be uncomfortable to look a fisherman in the eye and say, 'Well, what cost you this last year is now that.' "
And the tariffs have also put Morris in a tough spot as a Trump supporter.
"Alls I can say about it is, I hope you know what you're doing," he says.
Morris says he's hoping Trump has a strategy that's going to pan out — that the tariffs will strengthen the economy in the long run.
"I'm going to bear the brunt of it, I'm going to hope and pray for the best for our country, our corporations like Riverdale and the workers there, the fishermen, everybody. But if it goes awry, I'll stand and I'll be the first one to admit that I was wrong in supporting that."
For now, he says, he's putting his faith in the president.
April Fulton and Evie Stone contributed to this report.
Trump is #Winning the trade war though...
A little education goes a long way. Didn't he graduate from Wharton? I wonder what that degree cost his daddy because it's obvious Trump didn't earn it.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Nobody actually looks past their noses at the far reaching implications trade wars have. Considering the path we're currently on, soon they'll learn.
A couple days ago, we got another e-mail from a couple vendors that aluminum strut and steel conduit, fittings and supports are going up again. That has to be like the 4th or 5th increase in the last few months.
Harley-Davidson to Shift Production Overseas to Offset EU Tariffs Motorcycle maker said tariffs of 31% the EU enacted last week would raise the cost of each motorcycle it ships there from the U.S. by about $2,200 By Bob Tita and Allison Prang Updated June 25, 2018 11:29 a.m. ET
Harley-Davidson Inc. plans to shift production overseas to avoid European Union tariffs on its iconic motorcycles, the latest manufacturer to reconfigure operations amid a widening global trade fight. Harley prizes its made-in-the-USA reputation as central to its appeal to customers all over the world. But the Milwaukee company has made plans in recent years to open factories in countries including Brazil and Thailand to hold down prices, as sales falter in the U.S.
Trade policies credited as SC steel plant brings hundreds of jobs, $5B pledge
South Carolina steel plant reopened by UK industrialist, avoiding tariffs
British industrialist Sanjeev Gupta’s GFG Industrials on Monday reopened a shuttered South Carolina steel plant in a move that will allow his U.K.-based firm to circumvent the Trump administration’s 25% tariffs on steel imports.
Liberty Steel, a London-based company owned by Gupta’s group, held a relaunch ceremony at Georgetown Steel Mill on Monday. The mill originally closed in 2015 and was acquired by Liberty House in 2017, the Myrtle Beach Sun News reported.
Liberty Steel said the facility would employ about 125 workers at launch and more than 300 workers in the “medium term,” according to a press release. GFG Alliance has vowed to invest more than $5 billion in the U.S. within the next few years.
Today Trump is going nuts over Harley Davidson, bashing them in several tweets... Good thing NO bikers vote for Republicans. lmao
Dude give your bias a rest. first, you bashed trump for HD doing what they are doing, then Trump bashes them for doing it, and you don't like that........
For real, your TDS needs looked at. Im worried about your sanity.
You crack me up. My sanity is just fine. I hope you don't lose your mind over the coming months though. I'd like to talk to you after the trump effects wear off.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
You crack me up. My sanity is just fine. I hope you don't lose your mind over the coming months though. I'd like to talk to you after the trump effects wear off.
going on 2 years running, yeah sure.
I should know better than to feed (post) the lost kitten (troll), they will never go home (stop arguing when defeated).
Don't you find it a little odd that you see the comparison of a poster on a message board that you consider a troll and the president of The United States?
Quote:
you bashed trump for HD doing what they are doing, then Trump bashes them for doing it, and you don't like that........
I guess the bar isn't set very high.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Don't you find it a little odd that you see the comparison of a poster on a message board that you consider a troll and the president of The United States?
Quote:
you bashed trump for HD doing what they are doing, then Trump bashes them for doing it, and you don't like that........
I guess the bar isn't set very high.
no. HD was to hold up part of their bargain, that they requested from the POTUS, he held up his end, they have not. So he is bashing them for it. Fair.
Bashing trump for not doing what you wanted him to do, then bashing him for doing what you wanted him to do, hypocrisy.
You mean the bargains Trump claims to have with people that are never put in writing? Like all the claims he made about an agreement with N. Korea?
I never saw where Harley Davidson agreed to lose $2,200 a motorcycle for every bike they exported to Europe anywhere.
I don't believe you can force a company to do anything as a government official. but to act like the government has not negotiated with companies in good faith is naïve, and you are smarter than that. Business' and Unions do it all the time. This business negotiated in good faith - and then turned their back on that negotiated agreement. They are not obligated no, but it shows you where their priorities are - and I guarantee you their business will be hurt by it.
And trust me, from someone who used to work for Harley Davidson dealer and knows what it cost to make a Harley and what a dealer sells them for - they are not losing 2200 on a Harley they sell over there There isn't a Harley on the road worth its asking price.
You mean the bargains Trump claims to have with people that are never put in writing? Like all the claims he made about an agreement with N. Korea?
I never saw where Harley Davidson agreed to lose $2,200 a motorcycle for every bike they exported to Europe anywhere.
I don't believe you can force a company to do anything as a government official. but to act like the government has not negotiated with companies in good faith is naïve, and you are smarter than that. Business' and Unions do it all the time. This business negotiated in good faith - and then turned their back on that negotiated agreement. They are not obligated no, but it shows you where their priorities are - and I guarantee you their business will be hurt by it.
And trust me, from someone who used to work for Harley Davidson dealer and knows what it cost to make a Harley and what a dealer sells them for - they are not losing 2200 on a Harley they sell over there There isn't a Harley on the road worth its asking price.
trump has negotiated ‘in good faith’ with many contractors over the years... Only to stiff them when the time came to pay up. Turn about is fair play. He now is tasting the sting he’s placed on others. All he’s got is to continue to whine like a little b on Twitter.
If you can show me anywhere that Harley agreed to keep producing motorcycles in America to ship to Europe at an increased 22% tariff, please post your link.
And you can slice and dice it any way you wish, Harley would lose $2,200 dollars over what they would otherwise make on those bikes.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
If you can show me anywhere that Harley agreed to keep producing motorcycles in America to ship to Europe at an increased 22% tariff, please post your link.
And you can slice and dice it any way you wish, Harley would lose $2,200 dollars over what they would otherwise make on those bikes.
I certainly can. Where Harley chooses to send their motorcycles to sell should have no bearing on their dealings with the United States in terms of an agreement they made with us. Come on man, I know you hate trump, but your smarter than that. If they choose to have international dealings, they take that risk as a company. SPECIFICALLY for a company that touts is pro-American image.
Maybe your hate is that strong, but objectively - there is not a sound argument.
trump has negotiated ‘in good faith’ with many contractors over the years... Only to stiff them when the time came to pay up. Turn about is fair play. He now is tasting the sting he’s placed on others. All he’s got is to continue to whine like a little b on Twitter.
Ahh so more hate, once again you rather the US get hurt, for trump to look bad. Glad to know you hate America and its workers that will get hurt over this. I guess as long as trump looks bad though, its worth it huh?
Once again, if such an agreement ever existed, please post a link of where I may view it.
they specifically stated they would created jobs in American if the tax cuts were in place. no need to find the link, for something that is common knowledge, as it has been discussed on here countless times.
You mean the bargains Trump claims to have with people that are never put in writing? Like all the claims he made about an agreement with N. Korea?
I never saw where Harley Davidson agreed to lose $2,200 a motorcycle for every bike they exported to Europe anywhere.
I don't believe you can force a company to do anything as a government official. but to act like the government has not negotiated with companies in good faith is naïve, and you are smarter than that. Business' and Unions do it all the time. This business negotiated in good faith - and then turned their back on that negotiated agreement. They are not obligated no, but it shows you where their priorities are - and I guarantee you their business will be hurt by it.
And trust me, from someone who used to work for Harley Davidson dealer and knows what it cost to make a Harley and what a dealer sells them for - they are not losing 2200 on a Harley they sell over there There isn't a Harley on the road worth its asking price.
trump has negotiated ‘in good faith’ with many contractors over the years... Only to stiff them when the time came to pay up. Turn about is fair play. He now is tasting the sting he’s placed on others. All he’s got is to continue to whine like a little b on Twitter.
A guy with rocks for brains best known for getting fleeced in nearly every negotiation he entered into got fleeced on a negotiation again?
Once again, if such an agreement ever existed, please post a link of where I may view it.
they specifically stated they would created jobs in American if the tax cuts were in place. no need to find the link, for something that is common knowledge, as it has been discussed on here countless times.
So in this specific statement about creating jobs, were they considering the tariffs as well or did that have to be considered separately?
A lot of the people who were cheering the tax cuts were subsequently hurt by the tariffs...
I'm not willing to say that Harley didn't say they would create jobs with the tax cut, but doing a quick Google search, I certainly didn't see it anywhere.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
And even so, it's not discussing something in good faith if you have to use something like a composition fallacy to prove your point. HD saying they would create jobs if the GOP passed tax cuts is hard to enforce if a very short time later this administration sets the wheels in motion to get your goods taxed at a ~30% rate.
Europe is HD's second largest market. The midlife crisis vehicle in the US is often a Corvette or similar. In France it's a Harley. You see them everywhere in France. Very loud, very raw, and Europeans love them. Them building in Europe is like BMW building cars in the Carolinas. It just makes good economic sense to build products near the consumer, especially large goods like vehicles.
I'm not willing to say that Harley didn't say they would create jobs with the tax cut, but doing a quick Google search, I certainly didn't see it anywhere.
The corporate tax cut would do nothing to help them create jobs unless personal income tax reductions increased demand. Harley sales have been falling for a few years, mostly in the US but to some extent all over the world..
The only way to create more jobs at Harley was to increase demand and evidently that wasn't happening..
That's why I felt the need to look for it. The comment didn't make any sense to me. Companies simply don't increase production on products there isn't a demand for.
From what I found they used the cuts to buy back a lot of their own stock just like most companies did with their tax cuts.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Exactly, some say the tax cuts only benefited the wealthy investors, and to some extent that's true, but it did allow a lot of these companies to get on more solid footing so they could at least survive a downturn if it happens..
trump has negotiated ‘in good faith’ with many contractors over the years... Only to stiff them when the time came to pay up. Turn about is fair play. He now is tasting the sting he’s placed on others. All he’s got is to continue to whine like a little b on Twitter.
Ahh so more hate, once again you rather the US get hurt, for trump to look bad. Glad to know you hate America and its workers that will get hurt over this. I guess as long as trump looks bad though, its worth it huh?
No I just knew that two things are true. One, trump is a rash idiot that inevitably screws up everything he touches. Two, the tax cuts would do little to nothing for the common man. So far I’m batting 1000.
trump has negotiated ‘in good faith’ with many contractors over the years... Only to stiff them when the time came to pay up. Turn about is fair play. He now is tasting the sting he’s placed on others. All he’s got is to continue to whine like a little b on Twitter.
Ahh so more hate, once again you rather the US get hurt, for trump to look bad. Glad to know you hate America and its workers that will get hurt over this. I guess as long as trump looks bad though, its worth it huh?
No I just knew that two things are true. One, trump is a rash idiot that inevitably screws up everything he touches. Two, the tax cuts would do little to nothing for the common man. So far I’m batting 1000.
You mean those tax cuts that put some money in our pockets and caused businesses to expand, providing all time low unemployment?
trump has negotiated ‘in good faith’ with many contractors over the years... Only to stiff them when the time came to pay up. Turn about is fair play. He now is tasting the sting he’s placed on others. All he’s got is to continue to whine like a little b on Twitter.
Ahh so more hate, once again you rather the US get hurt, for trump to look bad. Glad to know you hate America and its workers that will get hurt over this. I guess as long as trump looks bad though, its worth it huh?
No I just knew that two things are true. One, trump is a rash idiot that inevitably screws up everything he touches. Two, the tax cuts would do little to nothing for the common man. So far I’m batting 1000.
No, your mistaken, if you have a kid your getting 1000 more, under the new tax cuts.
Sorry Charlie, the majority of Americans benefited from the tax cuts.
No kids here. I get about $40 more a month. It’s done nothing for me financially. Even if it had it’ll be going away soon anyway...where as the corporate tax cuts won’t be. Oh and that $40 means even less as they strip away my future Medicare and likely my future SS payments. So really the republicans once again are screwing us...dry.
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