DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Tyrod: What to expect ?

How's he going to do that in 4 games? Or even 8 to 10 games, maybe.

He hasn't hit above 20 Td's in any year yet, yet he's going to get there in a year with the number 1 pick breathing down his neck?

If Tyrod holds the ball too long, refuses to make a throw, the Browns Rb's will be tasked with the majority of the offensive production.

I think Tyrod can get some rushing first downs, even Td's, his history shows that,

I just don't think he's going to get anywhere near 16 games started this year, ...
If the Browns are 1-9 going into the bye week, how hard would it have been to even wait that long to not make a switch?

Does anyone think the Browns will be 2-8 or better going in to the bye week?

Pittsburgh
At New Orleans
ny Jets
At Oakland
Baltimore
LA Chargers
At Tampa Bay
At Pittsburgh
Kansas City
Atlanta

Bye week.

How many do the Browns have to win to continue with Tyrod at Qb? 3? I'll bet 3, a 3-5 record might afford Tyrod still is in...if he goes to 3-7.

( if the Browns split the KC and Atlanta home games)
( if the Browns beat the Chargers because they have to travel across time zones to play in Cleveland.) and
( if the Browns win ONE of their first 5 games)

Is the only way I see winnable games in the first 10,

At least until the Browns look like a different team from what we're used to.

If the Browns are 4-6, or 5-5 or better, Tyrod "Might" get the rest of the season, the full 16 starts at Qb.

And Everybody stays healthy every year, is NOT the case usually, so the odds/expectations for Tyrod to get more than 10 starts this year?
Well I don't expect it.

How many starts did Hoyer get, his last Browns season? And He did everything right.

Call me an optimist, but I believe we could (should?) get to there...

We'll see.

There comes a time where you just have to start winning, no matter who you are playing.

I doubt that the Pats worry about their preseason strength of schedule ...... or that the Packers, Seahawks, Steelers, and New Orleans sit around, looking at their schedules, and worrying about how tough they are.

It is time for this team, the players, ownership, and coaches, to move past loser mentality, and look at every game as winnable, and to fight to win each and every one.

I wonder what our strength of schedule would have wound up being last year if we had won 10 or 11 games, instead of losing them all? I wonder how much more difficult the other AFCN teams schedules would look if we either split, or swept them each year?

It was the tweet where Schlereth was making his point about Mayfield stats being inflated by the large number of screens..

Don't think Schlereth was very high on Baker.

I’m done speculating about our turn around. We thought things ‘fell in place’ in the past. Multiple high draft choices. Two different years of multiple first round ‘talent’ added to the team. Various previously successful QB’s added to past years rosters. Etc...
I hear your optimism. Everyone is entitled to hope.
Personally, I’m done emotionally with this team. (Maybe even at this point leaning to the soured side.) I just don’t care anymore. I mean I totally care about the team winning. Don’t get me wrong. I’m just absolutely over caring about any individual in Berea. From the front office to the 3rd punter in camp. I’m done. I don’t want to hear what any of them have to say. I don’t care what number they’re wearing. Etc...
Go out, bust your ass, win. You do that then I’ll get interested in the rest.
Right now it’s all speculation. You, others, believe that we’re better. Maybe we are. We’ve all felt that before. We’ve gone 1-31.
They’re going to have to prove it to me. I’m done speculating.

Most college QBs numbers are inflated by screen passes.

Here is Sam Darnold's pass chart:

http://www.cfbfilmroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/pass-chart-neon-DARNOLD.png

Josh Rosen's:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUKeV5IU0AABs2Q.jpg

Baker Mayfield's

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP2TK75V4AAijJZ.jpg

Really gets me excited we drafting him seeing the 20+ yard throws and the stats under pressure which is so much better than the other two. Very impressive. Let's hope that continues into the NFL.

Yeah, Mayfield's chart is above average in all areas except directly over the middle from 10-20 yards, IIRC.

That tells me that he probably needs to work on manipulating the Safeties with his eyes.

I agree with you, eo. (Of course, I was an unabashed JD supporter). IIRC, he got injured late in the 2nd qtr while we were leading 14-3 (or was it 14-10?). He was not thas effective post-injury...

Better talent at the OL, WRs,TE and when you factor in depth i think there is better talent at the RB position put the personnel improvements with better coaching philosophy,scheme and playcalling.

Imho this current Browns team is the best Tyrod has every played on.

For some reason I really like your second statement here. There has been a lot of talk about his height as well, do you think that comes into play when looking straight at likely the 1-2 biggest defenders on the field?

I suppose could have an impact, however often the tallest guys are at DE, not DT.

I would also add that on this worst section of the pass chart, he still completed 59% of his passes with 5 TD and 2 INT.

It will be interesting to see how he does. I wanted Darnold, but we'll see if Dorsey knows more than I do.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/06/for_tyrod_taylor_its_just_the.html

Cleveland Browns
For Tyrod Taylor, it's 'just the tip of the iceberg' says Browns QB coach

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Ken Zampese can hardly believe his good fortune. In his first season as Browns' QB coach, he gets to a tutor a young Pro Bowl quarterback with a winning record who took his team to the playoffs last season in Tyrod Taylor.
"Tyrod's just hitting his stride,'' Zampese said Thursday on the final day of minicamp. "This is his fourth year starting in the NFL. He's just coming into his own and this is just the tip of the iceberg. We haven't seen the best from him.''

'Tyrod Taylor's just hitting his stride' says Ken Zampese, Browns quarterbacks coach
Zampese has watched Taylor, 28, step in take control of Todd Haley's new offense. In practice, he's consistently throwing TD passes -- albeit with no contact -- but the timing and efficiency look good. On Wednesday, he rolled left and fired a TD pass to Jarvis Landry in the back corner of the end zone, where the receiver made one of his vintage acrobatic catches.
"I'm so excited to have him,'' Zampese said. "I just can't tell you how excited I am to have him. The standard that he sets and the consistency every day, from the time he's in until the time he's out, I haven't seen a guy keep those hours in the spring time. It just brings some comfort level. You know you can trust him, and every day he backs that up.''

When Taylor isn't throwing for TDs, he's running for them. He's got as much zip in his feet as in his arm, and he's not afraid to use either.
"I'm a kid in a candy store,'' said Zampese. "There's no limitations with him. He can throw it down the field, he can run the zone read stuff, he can run a conventional offense. Anything you want him to do, he can do those things and like I said, he's just coming into his own so we're still finding out all of the areas that we can get him into. As we get going back here in training camp, we'll explore those things as we gear the offense towards individual strengths.''
Taylor motivated by Bills' snub and 'would definitely love to' knock them out of the playoffs
Taylor's dual-threat ability, powered by his 4.47 speed in the 40, makes him a coach's dream.
"The one thing you love to have is a guy that's a pocket passer that can also run and extend plays and when you get the combination of both you have a chance to really not only fit it into tight holes and the timing and anticipation, but then fix a play when it doesn't happen right with your legs, so I'm really excited about having that opportunity to have a dual-threat guy that way,'' Zampese said.

Taylor, who went 22-20 with the Bills, has displayed both accuracy and touch in practices. He's started to develop good chemistry with Josh Gordon, who caught a slant over Denzel Ward in team on Wednesday, and has it down with Landry.
"It's just so easy for him,'' Zampese said. "He doesn't strain to get distance and that's the best thing. It's easy for him. He's got plenty of power and distance, so it never looks like he's grunting to throw. It's just a natural smooth stroke. He's very strong.''
The knock on Taylor in Buffalo was that he wasn't willing to throw over the middle, and struggled to connect on the deep ball. He threw 51 touchdowns against only 18 interceptions there, but took some heat for his shot selection. Will it be reminiscent of 2016, when Cody Kessler didn't turn the ball over but frustrated Hue Jackson with his reluctance to go deep?
"Well, Tyrod's a starting NFL quarterback so that's the difference to me,'' said Zampese, who worked with Jackson in Cincinnati.
What's more, Taylor has an abundance of talent here with Gordon, Landry, Corey Coleman, Duke Johnson, Carlos Hyde, Nick Chubb and others.
"Yeah, I'm hoping he's happy about all of that,'' said Zampese. "I don't know what he's had in the past compared to what we have here, but what we have here is what we've got and we're going.''

Like offensive coordinator Todd Haley and Jackson, Zampese is of the mind that Taylor has a comfortable lead over No. 1 pick Baker Mayfield and that it's not a competition heading into camp.
"We're just interested in getting Baker the best he can be,'' said Zampese. "Where all of that goes down the road is where all it goes and that's up to coach Jackson. But just getting Baker the best version of himself every day and we have so much room to go in that area, we'll just keep it to that and let it go.''
The best part about Mayfield, Zampese is that he's humble and hungry.
"His mind's not closed off to anything,'' said Zampese. "He knows he needs to know a lot. He knows that the game's different at this level and there's a lot of things that he needs to get up to speed on, so that part's fun about him.''
The fact that Mayfield is unhappy with his progress is "the thing I like the best about him,'' said Zampese. "He's not satisfied with where he's at. There's always another level for him. He's trying to find it each day.''
Mayfield came in with a reputation as a football savant, with an almost photographic memory.
"He's not Albert Einstein, but he's not on the other side either,'' said Zampese. "He's right where he's supposed to be, he's Baker Mayfield and that's plenty enough to handle an NFL playbook and handle his progression here with the Cleveland Browns.''

As for a seamless transition between to the two dual-threat passers, Zampese was loathe to compare them.
"Baker is Baker and Ty is Ty,'' he said. "They have their strengths and we'll play within those.''
As for Taylor's potential, Zampese's imagination has run wild.
"Ty is Ty and his ceiling is, we haven't even seen it,'' he said. "We're going to take it run with it and I'm really glad he's here. I'm glad that I get a chance to be a part of his progession as an NFL player.'

Have we seen the best of TT?
Can a Veteran QB improve? Yes.

Testaverde struggled heavily, with a 47.6% completion rate for 3,240 yards, 13 touchdowns, and 35 interceptions, the first five years of his career @TB.

The Buccaneers selected University of Miami quarterback Vinny Testaverde first overall in the 1987 NFL Draft because Young was deemed a bust.

j/c:

Here is his three year average as a starter for the Bills

Completion %- 62.7%
Yards- 2952.3
TDs- 17
Ints- 5.3
Yards/Game- 201.6
Rating- 92.7
QBR- 61
Times sacked- 41.3

Generally, this is what I expect. There will be some increases/ decreases in some categories but, by in large, he has remained somewhat consistent in his range of performance from 2015-2017.

The biggest thing that is a plus, as we have all already discussed, is the low amount of turnovers. That alone should help us a great deal. However, I don't expect some earth-shattering performance from Tyrod, whether he plays the whole season or a handful of games.

Edit: The "times sacked" thing seemed a bit alarming and upon further digging, Taylor ranked third highest in amount of times sacked. Can anyone shed more light on this stat. Was it poor line play? Taylor holding the ball too long? him trying to make plays with his legs and got wrapped up behind the line of scrimmage?

Even if Tyrod is the exact same player he was in Buffalo I expect his production to rise bases on the improvement in surrounding talent.

Would you agree that the talent onnthe Browns this year is better then the talent on the Bills?

Sacks:
Tyrod does hold the ball to long.

So some of the sacks are definitely on him. But some are the result of the OL.

The Bills OL ranked 2nd in the League in 2017. #1 N.O.

Pressures allowed: 161 (seventh best).
Average YGBC: 0.69 (second).

Perhaps. I think LeSean McCoy trumps any of our running backs, but our WR corp this year is probably better than any he has had in Buffalo. Defense matters too, of course, and I feel like Buffalo provided a lot of extra opportunities with the turnovers created. They ranked in the top half of the league in turnovers created 2 of the 3 years he started. That helps when it comes to QB stats and points scored. IF we rank low among the 32 teams, that might have an affect on overall possessions for Tyrod and the offense, and thus, his statistics as a QB (not that it measures wins/losses). That's why I stuck with the average. The numbers can tend to even out based on variability for a number of factors.

Delhomme was garbage when he got here
I recall a preseason game where he had a 85 completion % vs a vanilla defense all of a sudden this board was filled with "oh yeah playoffs here we come" by the rose colored glasses crew
Delhomme was not a sought after free agent that year.the Saints offered him a back up.job and the Browns guarenteed him a STARTING JOB!!

Tyrod wont be asked to win games in Cleveland.just keep.the chains moving and turnover free.
i see alot of ground and pound offense and play action off that.
hes the best qb since the return which says alot about the sorry decsions made at qb since 99...28 to be exact

lol, not only that but we offered him a Mega Contract for a QB like him at the time (on the short-term structure). And a Rookie in Colt McCoy took pick him up and take him to work every day.

Guy got a good deal with the Browns

No, you're right. The Bills OL wasn't bad...PFF rates them as 7th. (where do you get the 2nd rated OL?)

My point was merely that not all the sacks were on Tyrod though. Football Outsiders has the Bills pass protection rated 31st w/ sack rate of 9.3%.

That rating isn't purely an assessment of the OL though. Like with most passing stats their a measure of the "unit" which includes the QB, the OL and the skill position players.

So being more specific some of the sacks Tyrod took are a by product of the OL not being able to hold up AFTER receivers weren't able to get open. But there is no doubt Tyrod holds the ball too long.

I'm with you on McCoy. That dude is a stud. But, looking at the RB "room"

McCoy, Jonathan Williams, Joe Banyard vs Carlos Hyde, Duke Johnson, Nick Chubb

Fair enough. Football is no doubt a 3 phase game and defense and special teams all play roles in production on offense. Drilling down that far into those aspects could without a doubt impact the Tyrod's production.

But, for me looking net-net at the personnel and coaching/scheme....I think Tyrod should have better production on this current Browns team.

IIRC his first game here was at Tampa Bay .. he threw a PUTRID pick 6 right before halftime that blew the game

Of course he will be asked to win games. He is the QB. I think it's more about him not losing games for us, which is evident in the low turnover rate. But he has the most important position in all of sports.With it comes with a little responsibility to win games for your team. He needs to score points, no matter what.

J/C .....

Taylor does hold the ball way too long, looking for a receiver to be open, as opposed to seeing how to throw him open. I don't think that he makes decisions quickly enough.

That said, I think that running some RPOs will help him, as he'll be able to make some decisions before the snap, as opposed to having to read the defense in motion all the time, and simplifying his reads. I also think that he will, potentially, have the best weapons he has ever had.

I am optimistic that he will be, at least, an average QB. I also am optimistic in that one thing Haley was able to do in Pittsburgh was to speed Roethlisberger up. Before Haley, he frequently held the ball forever. Roethlisberger became a guy who would get the ball out in a couple of quick seconds, as opposed to trying to hold the ball till the last possible second, or beyond. Maybe he'll be able to do the same with Taylor.

I got them from the League rankings.

I think that the quality of the OL he had in front of him, certainly points to other aspects of his game, such as you mentioned in holding the ball too long.

Perhaps it was a combination of he and his WRs' and perhaps having better receivers might help him get ridd of the ball sooner too. It also helps to have players who he can 'trust' to win on a contested pass, ones with a large catch radius and strong hands.

I've spoken to a ton of Bills fans since we acquired TT. They have all said the same thing - He's "OK". Plays well for stretches, holds the ball too long often (waiting for WR's to get open rather than throwing them open), makes an electric play or two with his legs and then will miss a wide open receiver leaving you scratching your head.

I'm happy with our QB situation - based on last year, we lost a ton of games simply because of Kizer throwing picks like nobodies business. Kizer flashed a throw here or there each game but he certainly didn't do anything magical ..... This year if we get the 'average' TT that he's shown for multiple seasons, then our QB play will be improved and our turnovers WAY WAY WAY down. That will lead to wins and progress. I am no rush to see BM start even though I am fan of his.... I want him to start when he's a better QB than TT, not still learning to be a better QB than TT.

Sure McCoy was a beast at RB - but there are other factors at play that influence TT's stats: WR's - coaching - play calling ... I don't see a massive drop off coming from his previous stats and he seems to be a stand up guy. Bottom line I am excited to see the new offense under Haley - I'm excited to see how TT runs and commands it - I'm excited to see (lord willing) Gordon, Landry, Coleman, Njoku and Hyde/Chubb/Duke ..... I can't think of a more talented or potentially explosive set of offensive playmakers on our team since 1999.

I agree with you to a point and the terminology may be the problem here. QB's are always asked to win games, so to that extent we agree.

But what you can't do is ask some QB's to carry a team on their backs. You have elite level QB's that can pretty much do that. Tyrod Taylor isn't one of those QB's.

Tyrod is in the best place he can be.

Fresh start. Upcoming organization. Great Offensive coordinator. Rabid fan base that will sing your praises, like you won the SB, every time you win a game. Surrounded by weapons... and just "coming into his own".

I am so excited to get upset with a QB because he missed an open receiver rather than throwing something at the TV because he threw another interception!

I know he ain't perfect... and either are we... but yes, as Bonefish said, he has "seized the day". This could be the turning point where he learns to TRUST. Trust his arm, trust his receivers, trust his OC and coach, trust his vision. If TT threw with anticipation, threw his receivers open, would we not be calling him one of the best in the game?

Like everyone else - time to put up or shut up. Most in this league would kill for that opportunity when it starts with a clean slate. I'm sure there will be plenty of fans saying "same old Tyrod" from time to time when the season starts. As time goes on, as we create a winning culture, as these young players start to grow together, I think we'll start to see that there is a lot of talent on this team and we can "flip this script" in a hurry.

I hope Tyrod can play well enough this year to keep Baker on the bench. If were even sniffing .500 Taylor stays the starting Qb as long as he is healthy.

Baker desperately needs a year to mature and learn the NFL game...to learn the playbook....our chances of Baker being "the guy" increase exponentially if he has a year to sit.

We have a MUCH BETTER football team ... we have WAY MORE OVERALL TALENT than we have had since our return and I’m not sure it’s EVEN CLOSE ...

And i’ve NEVER said that before ... unlike most I haven’t been burned in the past cause I NEVER BOUGHT IN ... last year was the most optomistic i’ve been in forever and my predictions were a floor of 2 and a cieling of 6 with my number being 4 ... no way did i see the qb play being near as bad as it was ... i understood why and it was hard to watch but i didn’t feel “burned” like most that have what i thought were way out of whack expectations almost every year ...

So now there “burned” cause they believed the hype about how much talent was on our past teams ... now we actually have talent and they are “afraid” to aknowledge it ....

NOT ME ....

Our QB is as good as any we’ve here and way better than most ... that says more about the lack of talent we’ve had here than it does about how good TT is ...

BUT the FACT is ... he’s like the gold standard compared to what we saw last year and have for way to many of the past two decades ...

Our top 2 WR’s are as good as any duo in the league sans Pitt and we may be as good or better than them ... we didn’t have one reciever on last years team that would have been a top 2 WR on very many teams ... Coleman more than likely would have been a top two on a few teams only cause of how pitiful their group was ... but thats it ... NOW .... We have as good a duo as their is ...

Hopefully Njoku makes a huge jump like some 2nd year guys do ...

Our RBs are damm good ... Hyde is a dang good RB and Duke is Duke ... lets see what we have in Chubb ... i saw a video the other day and the RB’s were doing a “quick feet drill” and i gotta tell u ... and i’m Not one that reads much into that type of stuff ... but Chubb had GREAT FEET ... Hyde and Duke went first and then you did a double take after the first couple steps he was so good ...

The OL could be a MAJOR PROBLEM ... we have two liabilities at right and left tackle until proven otherwise .... we may need to game plan to help them ... that’d hurt but its doable and we still have plenty of talent to hopefully compensate for it as best we can ...

We got some talent on D also ... don’t feel like breaking it down now but that don’t take away from the fact the talents there ...

No way will I not aknowledge that cause of past failures ... NO WAY ... we have talent now ... thats CLEAR to anyone that knows football ....

The teams we have to play have taken notice .. especially our division rivals ...

Its gonna be a FUN YEAR guys ... at least it will be for me ...

This post has me so excited to get back into the season seats..start the tailgating... start the winning ..and start having fun...

Inspirational post there Diam

I'm still in reserve mood, although I'm not blind to the fact we have some positive things going on like Diam mentioned. If we start winning... then I don't know really lol. Football Sundays would have a truly different meaning for me.

I do admit having Tyrod and just all the positive things that's been said and on film and just etc etc on him means a lot. It should translate into something, I'm just not sure yet.

I very much understand the reserve mood..As a season ticket holder I tend to want to get excited only for the purpose of going there to tailgate ..hang out with friends I don't see until football season starts.


If I went into reserve mode..then I would be holding back from the fun I expect to have..So I guess I will as always get excited..to hoping not to get slapped in the face again...lol

Im ready for that fun ride to start and keep going longer this season.

I’m glad it inspired U ... more importantly it was FACTUAL ...

Don’t let um drag U down cause their skeptical over the fact they bought into the hype on teams w/o much talent ... this team has some talent .... its there ... GET EXCITED .... besides if we suffer a few key injuries and the season goes in the tank we have the rest of the year to be miserable ... *LOL* ...

Seriously .... since the day i came on this board i was called negative every single season ... hell dawg when the board first opened everyone was going crazy that we got Policy “the don” cause of what he did in Frisco ... from day 1 before we made our first pick i came in guns a blazin and told everyone we were $crewed cause the don and Clark built nothing in Frisco and actually ruined them .... they actually started a thread about kicking me off the board because i was TOO NEGATIVE ... they also said i wasn’t a browns fan ... sometimes i wish they were right ... *LO* ..... at that point we didn’t even know there were mods ... i said if they voted me off I’d leave I had no desire to be where i wasn’t wanted ... all of a sudden a mod showed up and said i was entitled to my opinion and no way would they suspend me ...

Right out of the gate within like a month of the board opening they wanted me kicked off for being TOO NEGATIVE ... and i’ve never bought in to the hype and have been called negative ever since ... ask tab ... him and I have disagreed about our talent level every single year ... we used to have some real doozies ... *L* ...

NOT THIS YEAR DAWG ... the talents there ... barring injuries were gonna be competitive and were gonna win some games ... i’m not talking 10 or 11 ... i’m talking 6 or 7 ... and seeing as how we’ve won 4 games the last 3 years .... 6 in a season will be like HEAVEN for us ...

And don’t let us put the nfl on notice in week 1 ... no ... don’t let that happen ... there gonna miss Shazier big time and no way Bell’s in game shape ...