DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mini Camp Updates/News

By all reports, the team worked really hard in their on field sessions, and made very few mental mistakes. The ball wasn't on the ground a lot .... there weren't a bunch of drops. The team earned a day off, and I think that goes a long way with the players, especially when this session was little more than a glorified 7 on 7 walkthough. (at best)

I think the market that players are paid disputes your LT assertion. Edge rushers are some of the highest paid D players in the NFL. If you weren't game planning on depending on those edge rushers to get to the QB, you wouldn't be paying them as the top paid players on D. NFL D's most certainly game plan on rushing the QB's from the edge.

They are however looking to exploit which ever T that is weakest. All you need to do is look at the penalties Coleman committed last year in order to prevent that from happening.

Listening to Bob today (our weird but in a good way o-line coach)... it sure sounds like the LT is open.

He even said Joel took a few snaps there, although in a later question alluded to why take a top four (or five, I forget what he said about Joel) guard and change him somewhere where he'd have to learn a lot of new things.

Sounds like Coleman is battling with technique. Truthfully, I just want the best player available there.

Market prices tend to lag. Let';s watch them over the next 5 years.

Desmond Harrison played LT at Texas before getting into trouble.

he's a sleeper, no doubt ... but probably a PS type guy for the foreseeable future

Unfortunately I'm on my mobile until this evening and the official website redirects users on smaller screens but goto clevelandbrowns.com, it's well worth listening to.

I'll refer to the 2017 NFL draft. The very first pick in the draft was Myles Garrett. He's an edge rusher. Edge rushers are one of the highest paid and sought after commodities in the NFL.

You don't stop those without solid OT's. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

with how offenses have changed over the last 5 to 7 years the LT position has been a bit devalued.
you can have the best LT in the game and still go 1 and 31
offenses now dictate the qb gets the ball out of his hands in under 3 seconds.
hoq many qbs.do.we see under center taking a 7 step drop?
i would put a center now of equal value to a LT.

Sure it has. lol

That's why edge rushers are one of the highest valued positions outside of QB. Because the NFL no longer pressures QB's from the outside. I'm not even sure if some of you hear yourselves. lol

of course they still pressure from the outside.
but now teams are looking for players to pressure from the inside just as well.
your center is just as valuable as the LT.
if you get pressure up the middle your inital play is dead.
if you get pressure from the outside the qb can still step in the pocket buy a view more seconds and release.

We just might put the THEORY to the test this season .. Taylor scrambling for his life or flat on his back ..

It's funny because NFL salaries do not reflect that C's and G's are worth as much as LT's.

Go look at where the starting centers are drafted and compare that to where the starting LT’s were drafted ... then go look at the salaries of the top Centers compared to the top LT’s ...

The guards blow the Center position away in terms of draft and pay slot ....

I think the Center position is way undervalued because they call out the blocking assignmentswhen they get to the line and then make any audibles to them if theres shifts and time allows ....

Its clear that LT’s are still the 2nd most important position on O ...

How many movies are named after who the centers or guards block are there ... ....

Watch the movie the blindside ... first scene is one Joe Thiesman “for the Heisman” who was mobile enough to have started his NFL career as a punt returner having his career ended by the DE coming off his BLIND SIDE and everyone knows the rest ....

in the 1st rd of the NFL Draft there was 2 centers 2 guards 2 Left Tackles selected
Zack Martin of the Cowboys is making " Left tackle " money
with defenses now putting a emphasis on 4 d lineman that can get to the QB,you bet center and guards are at a premium now

You all got me thinking. I can see both sides of this, although not so much the priority on interior. I think that with offenses spreading the field horizontally there is a lack of help from the backfield and tight end. Defenses have been taking advantage by lining up their best pass rusher over the RT where they are not getting helped... maybe a chip on the route out of the backfield. I think guarding the edge is as important as ever, but the focus should be on having two solid tackles rather than a blindside beast, as you need to scheme against individual D's.

In regards to the D, pass rusher is always a priority.If you have bad corners the rush might not get there. However, if you have no pass rush even the best corner can't maintain. Isn't this so common sense it should be cliche? It gives me some faith in the Browns process, as it seems they've tried to build the front seven and then address the secondary.

in terms of our pass rush, the more I've thought about it, the more I think Ogbah is INTEGRAL for this team. We basically gambled on him to be a dominant force opposite Garrett ... after all, that's why we passed on Chubb. We need that other pass rush to make everything else "go"

I agree that Ogbah is a force and an above average DE opposite Garrett .... I disagree we passed on Chubb because we were essentially gambling. I think Ward was a position of need and is an elite talent. We've seen reports that Ward is more talented and works harder than Lattimore ... if he comes close to that billing it's a great pick.

I think the main reason we passed on Chubb is because we needed a cover CB in the worst way.

there's no doubt we needed a cover corner ... so let's really hope that:

A. Ward turns out to be a Pro Bowl type CB
B. Ogbah stays healthy and improves

I think it was the Jamar Taylor draft mandate. Our corners got abused, especially in the clutch.

I agree.

Dorsey has said he had Chubb and Ward ranked equally. That does happen, so the fallback was to draft for the greater need.

I also think we feel our D-line is stacked with really good players. We have a lot of versatility with that unit that will benefit all the more if we can cover guys up a few seconds longer.

IMO Chubb is not near the pass rusher most think he is ... i just don’t see the explosion or the burst ... i think he is a very good DE but he’s a “combo” DE as opposed to the pass rushing phenom MG is ...

Go watch his tape ... the explosion or the burst is simply not there IMO ...

On a side note .. IMO Ogbah is underrated by most ... and i wasn’t an Ogbah guy ... he really started to impress me as his rookie year went on and he was playing some good football by the end of it ...

Looking forward to seing him this year to confirm or blow up my thoughts on him ...

+1

Add me in. Ogbah doesn't get nearly as much credit as he deserves, almost word for word when the dline coach talked to us recently. He's solid in the run and was starting to really break free on his rushes before he was hurt.

I also felt the same with Chubb. When people said he was "better" than MG, I was confused. He's a beyond solid player though.

j/c

Ogbah's stats:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OgbaEm00.htm

26 games played, 9.5 sacks, 46 tackles, 2 FF, 1 FR, 9 PD

Cleveland Browns placed OL Donald Stephenson on the reserve/retired list.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1015274921059024897

So is this burst and explosion a technique can be taught or learned, or is he just locked into whatever he has? I assume any technique can be improved, I am not certain what I am looking to see if it is not there. But you feel MG has it, correct?

Burst at the elite nfl level is something your born with ... u can work on certain muscle groups and do drills and fine tune the technique and u will improve but u will always be limited by the physical tools u were born with ....

Guys like LT are special ... burst like he had can’t be taught ... same with MG ... what he has can’t be taught ...

So ya MG has it ... he’s no LT but then again no one was ... MG has it in spades ... he’s got excellent burst ... u can just see him explode off the ball compared to others ...

MG also has a very unique skill ... his ability to turn into Gumby when getting around the corner is nothing short of incredible ... The closest to his combo is one Charles Haley ... he had the bend but it was not near as good as MG’s ...

If MG can be 80% of Haley we will have one hell of a football player ... i hope his ankles aren’t gonna be a problem for his entire career ... if this kid stays healthy ... he’s got a shot to be special .. very very special ...

Myles Garrett, on the NFL level has only been decent at best, not special yet, everyone can say potential, and ability, most teams have a guy like Garrett, now the Browns do to.
Is Myles Garrett a game changer? It would be hard to say yes yet. I don't think a lot of defenses really worry that the Browns have Myles Garrett, his room for development is still there, he's a young year 2 player.

Most teams have a guy like MG .... ....

Please do tell witch other teams have a DE so highly thought of coming out of college they were drafted with the top pick ... matter of fact go down to even top 5 picks ...

MG may never live up to his potential ... but theres a reason he went #1 ...

And weather he lives up to it or not ... his physical skills are VERY VERY VERY RARE!!!

Cleveland Browns Training Camp 2018: OL Preview, Part 1

A look at the four starters who appear to be locked in to a job heading into training camp.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/7/5/1...-preview-part-1



1. Joel Bitonio - Starting Left Guard

Height: 6-4 | Weight: 305 lbs | Age: 26
Experience: 5 years | College: Nevada

The Browns took care of Joel Bitonio’s contract last offseason, so he will be with the team through the 2022 season. The big question the team faces right now is whether they keep Bitonio in his comfort zone at left guard, or do they consider using him as the heir to Joe Thomas at left tackle?

Bitonio was the 6th-highest graded guard in the NFL last year by Pro Football Focus, and it was the first time since his rookie year that he was able to avoid injury to start all 16 games. Although he still needs to work his way up a little to be recognized as a Pro Bowler in the AFC, he is already a complete player, excelling in both run and pass blocking.

Offensive line coach Bob Wylie recently talked about how he doesn’t doubt that Bitonio could play left tackle, but why fix what isn’t broken?





2. Kevin Zeitler - Starting Right Guard

Height: 6-4 | Weight: 315 lbs | Age: 28
Experience: 7 years | College: Wisconsin

Last year was Kevin Zeitler’s first as a member of the Browns and he, like Joel Bitonio, started every game at his position (right guard). The most veteran player of the offensive line in terms of years of experience, Zeitler was another player who I had Pro Bowl aspirations for in 2017. He got off to a bit of a slow start to the season, perhaps exasperated by all of the team’s losing ways.

By the end of the season, Zeitler had found his ground, finishing as the 10th-highest graded overall guard by Pro Football Focus, with a top-10 pass block ranking and a top-25 run block ranking. In late November, Zeitler allowed his first sack since Week 1 of the 2016 season when he was a member of the Bengals. He has been durable, not having missed any games in the past three seasons.



3. J.C. Tretter - Starting Center

Height: 6-4 | Weight: 307 lbs | Age: 27
Experience: 6 years | College: Cornell

Last year was J.C. Tretter’s first year as the Browns’ new starting center and he did what he needed to do: provide more stability than Cam Erving ever did. He is playing on a pretty affordable contract and was named the Browns’ best individual pass blocker last year by PFF with a grade of 97.2, only allowing 25 pressures on the season.

Tretter is also a former member of the Green Bay Packers, where a good portion of Cleveland’s front office was rooted. They should know Tretter well and the player he has become. It is true that the position could be upgraded in the future, but right now, it would have to be one of the lower priorities for the team to consider, and they still have a couple of backup candidates on the roster.



4. Chris Hubbard - Starting Right Tackle

Height: 6-4 | Weight: 295 lbs | Age: 27
Experience: 5 years | College: Alabama-Birmingham

The Browns signed Chris Hubbard to a 5-year, $37.5 million deal with $18 million guaranteed this offseason. The contract is a little high for a player who is far from a proven commodity. The signing immediately made him the new starting right tackle, abruptly bumping Shon Coleman over to left tackle to compete for a spot.

Hubbard, an undrafted free agent who signed with the Steelers in 2013, started 14 games over the past two seasons, including 10 last year at both guard and right tackle. New offensive coordinator Todd Haley could have been a champion for urging the team to sign Hubbard. DBN’s Andrea Hangst follows the Steelers closely and wrote about the move when it happened. Here is a snippet of what she had to say:



According to Pro Football Focus, Hubbard only allowed 3 sacks last year and was the league’s 40th-graded lineman, a number that could have been higher if it weren’t for one “disastrous” game he had against the Ravens.

-----------------------------------------------------------




Cleveland Browns Training Camp 2018: OL Preview, Part 2

A look at the four players competing at left tackle heading into training camp.



5. Shon Coleman - Current Left Tackle

Height: 6-5 | Weight: 310 lbs | Age: 26
Experience: 3 years | College: Auburn

After seeing very little action as a rookie, Shon Coleman became the team’s starting right tackle in 2017 and didn’t miss a snap all year. With the retirement of Joe Thomas, the team tried to pursue Nate Solder as a free agent this offseason, but he preferred to sign with the New York Giants. In a somewhat unconventional move, with a vacant left tackle spot, the team decided to pay big money to a starting right tackle (Chris Hubbard), pushing Coleman out of his starting job from a year ago.

All is not lost for Coleman, as he is being given the first crack at the starting left tackle job, and Thomas has tried to pass along some of his wisdom to him. But remember, Cody Kessler was the team’s starting quarterback at this time last year too, and look what happened. Left tackle is a wide open competition heading into camp, and offensive line coach Bob Wylie talked about the challenges Coleman faces switching from the right side to the left side:



That doesn’t mean Wylie doesn’t believe in Coleman, as he praised his athleticism. Coleman had, in my estimation, a pretty solid first year as a starting right tackle, so it does kind of feel like he got shafted a bit (because I honestly do not believe he will end up as the opening day left tackle). He should at least make the roster still.



6. Austin Corbett - Rookie Left Tackle

Height: 6-4 | Weight: 306 lbs | Age: 22
Experience: Rookie | College: Nevada

The Browns selected Austin Corbett with the No. 33 overall pick of the draft, and I always like to say that if a team stays put with the first pick of Day 2 of the draft, then they must really like the player they select (considering the trade offers they must be receiving).

Corbett played left tackle for all four years in college, but many scouting reports assumed he would transition to guard in the NFL. Cleveland is well set at both guard positions, though, so unless Joel Bitonio switches over to left tackle, it seems likely that the coaching staff’s “best-case scenario” is that the rookie looks the part of a capable left tackle in training camp.

Waiting for Next Year looked at the strengths and weaknesses of Corbett’s college tape. Among his strengths were strong hands, being a nasty finisher, awareness, and patient/fluid movement skills. His weaknesses include his hand positioning at times, pass protection technique, and overextending. I’m picking him to win the job in camp.



7. Greg Robinson - Veteran Left Tackle

Height: 6-5 | Weight: 330 lbs | Age: 25
Experience: 5 years | College: Auburn

After minicamp concluded, the Browns went out and signed veteran left tackle Greg Robinson, who was the No. 2 overall pick of the 2014 NFL Draft. Robinson has been the definition of a bust since entering the league, and if this infographic from Pro Football Focus doesn’t tell the story, then I don’t know what will:

The one edge that Robinson has in his favor is that he has started 48 games between the Rams and Lions. It seems unlikely that Robinson will miraculously be able to flip the switch in Cleveland, but on the same note, you have to think the team had some concern about the position to go out and sign him after minicamp. My projection for Robinson is that he ultimately will not make the roster, with preference given to younger talent.



8. Spencer Drango - Forgotten Left Tackle

Height: 6-6 | Weight: 315 lbs | Age: 25
Experience: 3 years | College: Baylor

Spencer Drango started 10 games last year after Joe Thomas went down. One would think that might make Drango the favorite to start at left tackle, but all it really did was build a resume for why he is not the man for the starting job. He showed that he can fill in and have some moments of stability, but this is something you never want to see:

This training camp, Drango figures to be in the mix as a backup guard again — the first player up if something were to happen to Joel Bitonio or Kevin Zeitler.

Whoever wins out the left tackle position there with all that competition is going to be solid IMO. No Joe Thomas, but it won't be a weakness on the line.

I need to see it for myself. None are JT, but they have to be mobile and slide.

If they are at least as good as Drango last season, we'll be ok.

j/c:

I have a question about Hubbard. I have been told by some Steeler fans who know football that while Hubbard was plugged in along the OL, he was most effective on the inside and not at tackle.

Any takes on that?

Exactly. It didn't become a glaring weakness when Spencer was plugged in.

In any case, we should be able to feel good with the person given the position. One of the top things I'll be following.

i'll admit ... i expected an F out of Drango last year.

He probably graded out below average, but it could have been much worse