DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Russians Flock to Trump Properties to Give Birth to U.S. Citizens

I am done with this unhinged conversation now. Bye.

The original article has all the 'catch phrases' it takes to set off some people.

Headline: RUSSIANS FLOCKING............to TRUMP properties to have kids.



When read a little deeper (which trump haters hate to do) we see that russians have been doing this for a while, as well as chinese.

Back in 2013, LA tried to do something about it. Apparently it didn't work.

AND, these people stay at other places as well.

AND, they do it legally - as the article even points out that these private companies - "birth tourism companies", advise the foreigners that come here legally on visas, on what NOT to apply for.


But, for the haters, it's "Trump properties" that takes the day. Even though the people doing this come here legally. And, stay at other places as well. And they're not all russian.

AND, they equate people with visas with those that just walk across our borders illegally. It's a genius approach for the haters to blame trump, when legal visitors come here to have kids, when it has in fact been happening for years, and possibly much longer.

Haters gotta hate, even if they don't realize they are looking foolish, simply because the word "trump" showed up in the headline.

Where were all of you when this was happening when O was president?

BUT you can't be one of the most racist posters here and then suddenly declare:



just when you are getting your butt handed to you. It doesn't work that way my man, not at all.

I also love when my illegal immigrants circumvent the law via first class planes, but loathe when people walk 1k+ miles to apply for asylum.

Are you sure you want to stick with this line of reasoning?

I can't really agree that DC is a "Trump hater." I most certainly am, but to paint him with the same brush seems a bit- inaccurate, if you ask me.

40: ALL RACISM IS WRONG!

PDF: Then why do you post YouTube tribute videos to a guy who was repeatedly fined for not renting apartments to blacks and not allowing them to deal him blackjack cards?

40: This conversation is over.

It was more of a general reply - not to DC - to others.

And yeah, I'll stick with the gist of my post.

Let me start here.. I agree that pretty much everything you said is true... except for the part about me being a "Trump hater".. I am deeply critical but I'm not a hater.. he has done some stuff I hate, he has done some stuff I'm ok with... If you want to characterize me as a "hater" of anything, then make me a hater of those who worship him.. and for the record, I do not put you in that group.

So why is this more interesting now that it would have been say... 3 years ago when Obama was President? Well, Obama doesn't own some of the properties that like to frequent.. Obama's resume on immigration is mixed for sure.. he was trying to do some positive things while apparently at the same time, putting some illegals through hellish conditions prior to being sent back.. But public perception of him on immigration is that he wasn't nearly as hostile toward it as Trump is...

Now, Trump also has a long history of (and I'll be very generous here) doing things that APPEAR to be race motivated, ignoring this aspect of manipulating our immigration laws by wealthy white folks, does kind of raise an eyebrow... Not to mention, he has routinely equated Mexicans with rape and drug crime and he has routinely equated middle eastern and Muslim nations with terrorism.. but he doesn't seem to use the same theory to equate extremely wealthy Russians with the Russian mob.. which is one of the more well organized and violent mobs in the world with a long history of drug trafficking, human trafficking, etc.. real vile group they are.

As far as it being legal.. Trump reduced the number of guest worker visas that Mexicans could use to come here legally.. did he reduce the number of wealthy Russians that could come here and drop thousands of dollars at his properties? The middle eastern folks that wanted to come here also wanted to come here legally.. until Trump, with the stroke of a pen, another stroke of a pen, a third stroke of a pen, then a supreme court ruling... make it illegal... Clearly he has no problem with taking something that was recently legal and making it illegal, if it fits his agenda.. so why did this not fit that same agenda?

In the end, the media did what the media does, they put the words they knew would sell in the headlines.. to their credit, they at least buried some of the other facts in the article, sometimes you don't even get that.. stuff like the Chinese do it too and Trump resorts might be the prime place to stay but it's not the only place..

Arch, what is your opinion on this practice of allowing foreigners to come here for the sole purpose of having a baby so that baby can have dual citizenship? Then that baby can use that advantage to move here later, go to school here, receive other benefits of citizenship up to and including, eventually using other clauses to bring the whole family here... do you believe this is a good policy or not?

You sum it up in your last sentence -

Trump is open with his racism. He doesn't hide it, and uses it as a cudgel.

But DC's paragraph here is more of a condemnation to what I like to call "brunch liberals"; there really should be an open condemnation of Obama and his policies.

Without open condemnation, it's just going to be an open "whataboutism" weapon wielded against those who liked Obama.

(Also...DC...you and I used to go back and forth once upon a time about my assertion that Obama was slightly right-of-center...I think I won that one).



That's not being "generous". That's being milquetoast to avoid stepping on toes in the name of polite conversation.

The dude has been a racist kook his entire life, long before he even became a celebrity figure, and there's tons and tons and tons of receipts.



100% correct.



This is a very good question, and I'd like to even go a step further with another question -

What generation are all of the posters here?

I got here on one side because a great-grandfather was an underground journalist who spoke out against Mussolini and got put on the Italian government's hit list. He never became a citizen, and didn't know much English until he had children, and picked it up more and more as they went into primary school.

I'm not so clear or up to date on the other side.

(first - I think I explained that I didn't mean YOU - even though I replied to you. ((as a trump hater, that is)))

As to this question that you asked: I don't care for it. I don't like it.

But, let's understand this: These russians and chinese, and I'm sure people from other countries that do it, are getting in legally, are they not?

As opposed to walking/riding/being transported into this country ILLEGALLY. That's a big difference, in my opinion.

And while this will come across to some as me defending trump, trump didn't create this. It was happening. Sure, some people stayed at his resorts. I can almost guarantee the majority stayed at other apartments/hotels/ etc.

I thought about checking out websites from some of those birth tourism companies, but I haven't. My guess is, those companies have created a, sadly, legal cottage industry.

TRump didn't create it. Sure, some of those people stay at his places. And, here we get to the, in my opinion, bias of the article. "RUSSIANS" FLOCK TRUMP PROPERTIES, to give birth to gain dual citizenship.

It was going on before trump had any political clout, and apparently it was legal. It's going on with people from many countries. It was going on under the previous administration. I would absolutely presume MOST of those people aren't staying at trump properties.

I don't like it, but I can see the article for what it is: A shot at trump, without disclosing that it isn't/wasn't him doing it, that it happens with people from other countries, etc.

I appreciate the response arch...


Yes they are... but many of the middle easterners could have come here legally too.. and many of the Mexicans could have come here on legal work visas... but Trump changed the rules for them. He didn't change any of the rules that affect these folks.. wealthy folks... a lot of them white..


Every President inherits things like this.. and they have 3 options, ignore it, expand it, or reduce it.... in fact some of them run on fixing things like this.. Immigration was a very big part of Trumps campaign, anchor babies was a big part of his campaign... and it was almost exclusively directed at latinos.... so was Trump unaware this was going on? Did he choose to ignore it? Because he made no mention of intending to change it...


I honestly don't think it's that big a part of the story that they stayed at his resorts...

The big part of the story to me is this.... we have this legal loophole toward citizenship that is being exploited... we are allowing it to be exploited by very safe and comfortable foreign millionaires who can afford to shell out $15-20K so their kids can have dual citizenship.... while at the same time we are cracking down hard on those who would love to use it to escape ruthless governments and poverty to have a chance to provide just a little opportunity and safety for their families, but they can't afford it..

That just seems to be wrong and completely antithetical to what America is supposed to stand for... It will be interesting to see if Trump even addresses it and if he does, how.

To me when you only have limited space then you take the best of the best and those that are needed the most. Highly educated people would always be given priority by me because they are harder to come by.

I would also give priority to people from countries that we count as friends and allies over people from hostile countries.

Culturally we have the most influences from Europe so it also makes sense to preserve our culture by having more people from the same culture join than those that might come from a conflicting culture.

That's called intelligent management. When you diversify culture backgrounds too quickly it almost always leads to violence because the dominant culture will fight to survive and the new cultures will fight to gain dominance. That simply a fact.

While it sounds nice to be diverse and accepting of other cultures but it has to be done gradually or you lose who you are as a country.

"Preserve our culture"

I wanted to quit reading there, but I continued and it got worse, much worse.

"intelligent management" = Final Solution rhetoric... #Fascism

He's just a good Christian justifying his bigotry.

Since when do intelligent people only come from white countries? I must have missed that memo.

Don't say "white countries".

"European", please.

I know this doesn't specifically refer to Razor, because he has stated that he wants public paid for education, but I love this narrative that the right has picked up, where Americans need to go back to low skilled jobs like manufacturing and warehouse distribution, while needing to import high-skilled workers.

Arch constantly talks about how manufacturing plants are in constant need of service. However, Ohio's sitting at a 4% unemployment rate, which is very close to full employment in most macroeconomic senses. In actuality, the only way to grow these businesses, to fill their jobs, would be to (raise their wage) or to accept and employ immigrants.

Americans absolutely need to go back to manufacturing and warehouse distribution jobs.

They need to be paid fairly for it, though.

I considered that but realized what he meant was "white countries".

It's good to see that peoples ears are picking up the dog whistles.

DawgTalkers has always been good about that.

Back in the day when it was the official Browns board, there were a handful of weirdo racists that were always called out. USNavyDawg, Diam under his old handle when he was a ref, etc.

They still get called out, but they're getting more brazen.

Moving boxes around a warehouse and loading trucks might be, but a lot of manufacturing isn't a low skilled job anymore...

We have (and by we I mean the collective, the right and the left) created quite a few contradictions with how we think things work or should work.

Very true. A lot of manufacturing is highly skilled, but there are still plenty, especially with consumer goods, entry level manufacturing jobs.

All in all, these jobs while be phased out eventually by automation. Some quicker than others, but eventually it will come.

If you work 40 hours a week in warehouse labor, you deserve enough money to get a modest mortgage and not have to worry if your kid is gonna die if they get cance because you can't afford treatment.

Skilled or unskilled shouldn't matter.

If you have put some time in, I can agree with that.

I understand your blind hatred interferes with your ability for simple comprehension skills but even with basic knowledge anyone knows that not all Europeans are white. I will grant that most European countries are predominantly white but not all of them. There is a lot more diversity than you might think especially in the Russian and mediterranean areas.

I also never once said white people are the only intelligent people. That is your own racist imagination. I've been all over the world and I have met extraordinary people from all over.

We can pick and choose who we allow to immigrate so why not take the best of the best and make our country stronger instead of turning our country into a welfare state by letting just anyone in who wants in.

There are colleges all over the world and people going to college all over the world. Most businesses in this country that pay LIVING wages want people with college degrees. Why would we import people who can't fill a need. That is just not logical or smart. We don't need to import welfare recipients we need to import workers who will raise their kids to be workers and not welfare kids.

I am a socialist so you're right that I want everyone to be highly educated for free.

Do you also agree that not everyone is cut out for scholarly work though? I know plenty of people who hate college and studying books. Which is why is think vocational schools are important too because some people love to be craftsmen and work with their hands. I respect craftsmen just, as much as, I do scholars. This segment of the population takes the most wealth to create because it's expensive to raise doctors, engineers, lawyers, veterinarians, etc. Elite craftsmen take decades to teach up and gain the experience needed to be master craftsmen and they seldom want to leave their countries so are hard to come by.

Then you also have a segment of society that are just not that smart or skilled at anything and are never going to have the ambition for all that. We might want them to achieve more but they simply are not able or willing to push themselves harder. That doesn't make them bad people at all. We still need good jobs for them though and lower tier manufacturing jobs where you just have to work hard for your money need to be available to them. We will always have plenty of people to fill these jobs. We don't need to import them.

If your going to let people immigrate then allow those that fill the biggest needs. To me I think nurses are the ones we need to import most. Everywhere I look I see signs and ads for nurses wanted and those are good paying jobs.

Let me be clear also. I don't look down on anyone's job. I view all work as honorable whether it's a doctor or a burger flipper. Work has to be done by someone if there is a demand for it. I just want people to find the work suited for them and to earn a decent living doing it. I don't support over flooding a work sector to drive down wages to where there is no value to the work being done to the point no one wants to do it because the wages are terrible.

I am not saying everyone should make 50k a year but if you work 40 hours a week then you should be able to feed, house, clothe, educate, and keep your kids healthy with a diner out once in a while and a few toys here and there. I believe that should be for all citizens regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, etc.

I am a socialist after all. I believe everyone should work hard and that all hardworking families deserve to have a decent life.

Depends on who the whistle blows for.....if the posters are degrading women, it will be given barely a peep from anybody who might hear that whistle. Though usually, they don't even hide their true feelings regarding women around here, so no need for a silent whistle, nobody says a word. Yet, I rarely hear those that lament over the treatment of minorities, which deserves every bit of discussion it receives, even give a small crap about what women experience in this world.

You all are not the humanitarians you pretend to be.






Diam has always had the same user name he does now. He was one of the first posters on the original board. I'm not sure what you are talking about with that quote.

Let's agree that you could have worded the thoughts you tried to express much better and leave it at that.

I also didn't know you considered yourself a socialist. Free education for all is a very good thing and with opportunity, some (not all) of those you discounted in your statement would rise to the occasion.

I also think our culture has a heavy european influence but we are defined by our diversity.

PDF, still curious regarding the comment about Diam. He takes enough crap on here, I don't think people need to make things up about him.