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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
What are you talking about? I suppose you think I'm wrong when I tell you what I've heard from the horses mouth? You are being absurd.

Some people are attracted to both male and female. Some only to members of the opposite sex. Some to no one sex in particular, just to the sex. Some are attracted to the affection shown by another or fall n love with somebody of the same sex even though they have always considered themselves hetero... So stop sounding like a know it all already.

The overwhelming majority are born gay, but not all.


If I told you some people became heterosexual because they were sexually abused, would you agree or no?

Rape and sexual abuse can lead to further rape or sexual abuse. There's empirical evidence to support that. There is none for "I became gay because I was sexually abused", and I doubt anyone ever said that to you.

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Wrong. I know a very nice lesbian couple that were both married to men and divorced. The more feminine of the two was abused in her marriage both physically and mentally. She has a very hard time trusting men now.

She fell in love with another woman, but was not lesbian or attracted to women before her marriage. And yes she told me that. Her partner was raised in a strict religious home and married young. She never should have married a man because she basically is one.

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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
You gotta give it up to 40 for choosing to be only attracted to one woman for his entire life.


Thank you.
I made that life choice 30 years ago. thumbsup

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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Wrong. I know a very nice lesbian couple that were both married to men and divorced. The more feminine of the two was abused in her marriage both physically and mentally. She has a very hard time trusting men now.

She fell in love with another woman, but was not lesbian or attracted to women before her marriage. And yes she told me that.


If you for whatever reason "stopped trusting women", you could decide to be attracted to men?

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Originally Posted By: PDF
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Wrong. I know a very nice lesbian couple that were both married to men and divorced. The more feminine of the two was abused in her marriage both physically and mentally. She has a very hard time trusting men now.

She fell in love with another woman, but was not lesbian or attracted to women before her marriage. And yes she told me that.


If you for whatever reason "stopped trusting women", you could decide to be attracted to men?


Put a skirt on and let's see. rolleyes No I wouldn't because I am a man. And I'm not likely to give up women anytime soon. But I'm not her. I didn't understand it either but it's real. Only thing I can tell you. What you've read in your book is not 100% accurate in this case. deal with it.

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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: PDF
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Wrong. I know a very nice lesbian couple that were both married to men and divorced. The more feminine of the two was abused in her marriage both physically and mentally. She has a very hard time trusting men now.

She fell in love with another woman, but was not lesbian or attracted to women before her marriage. And yes she told me that.


If you for whatever reason "stopped trusting women", you could decide to be attracted to men?


Put a skirt on and let's see. rolleyes No I wouldn't because I am a man. And I'm not likely to give up women anytime soon. But I'm not her. I didn't understand it either but it's real. Only thing I can tell you. What you've read in your book is not 100% accurate in this case. deal with it.


She was always gay or bi, and didn't realize it, dude.

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Its very trendy with kids these days to be gay. You're not cool unless you're gay. No one will pay attention to you unless you're gay.

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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Its very trendy with kids these days to be gay. You're not cool unless you're gay. No one will pay attention to you unless you're gay.


Kids choosing to be popular is as old as time itself.

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Could have been, but not the way she told it. That's all I'm saying.

Do you have many LGBT friends? I'm not surrounded by them but over the years I've met and been friends with many. I have a few cousins a great uncle and aunt that are gay too. They were gay when it was taboo, but the family knew.

And when I was younger, I had plenty of questions about it because I didn't understand it.

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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Quote:
Life is all about choices.



Some of Life is about choices.
Some is biological hardwiring.
No one chooses to be gay any more than someone chooses to have blue eyes.

"He didn't give you Gay, did he?"
-Homer Simpson

Other than pure physical characteristics like height, hair and eye color, body type, etc... what else is biologically hardwired?


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IQ

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Quote:
Life is all about choices.



Some of Life is about choices.
Some is biological hardwiring.
No one chooses to be gay any more than someone chooses to have blue eyes.

"He didn't give you Gay, did he?"
-Homer Simpson

Other than pure physical characteristics like height, hair and eye color, body type, etc... what else is biologically hardwired?


Well that depends on what you think of the Universe, neuroscience and normative psychology. Potentially, everything we do and are is biologically hardwired.

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sexual orientation
artistic ability
athletic prowess

(now, the last two must be cultivated to acheive mastery, but some show the proclivity from Day One)


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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Ok, but what about other stuff like work ethic, self confidence, and other things that are considered more personality traits.. those aren't biological.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Quote:
Life is all about choices.



Some of Life is about choices.
Some is biological hardwiring.
No one chooses to be gay any more than someone chooses to have blue eyes.

"He didn't give you Gay, did he?"
-Homer Simpson

Other than pure physical characteristics like height, hair and eye color, body type, etc... what else is biologically hardwired?


Mental illness is probably the biggest one.

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Read about twins studies, with an emphasis on identical twins reared apart. Minnesota Twin Family Study would be a good place to start.

TL;DR version: what you find is that identical twins often have striking similarities in terms of achievement, intelligence, personality, political views, what music they like, etc. This is true regardless of whether they were raised together or apart.

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Ok, but what about other stuff like work ethic, self confidence, and other things that are considered more personality traits.. those aren't biological.


Then why do they give people pills for depression, bipolar disorder, etc., etc.

If you believe in a normative psychological mindset, then the only thing getting in the way of that is the chemistry of the brain, according to nueroscience.

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Originally Posted By: PDF
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Quote:
Life is all about choices.



Some of Life is about choices.
Some is biological hardwiring.
No one chooses to be gay any more than someone chooses to have blue eyes.

"He didn't give you Gay, did he?"
-Homer Simpson

Other than pure physical characteristics like height, hair and eye color, body type, etc... what else is biologically hardwired?


Mental illness is probably the biggest one.

Ok, so far we are hardwired to be smart/dumb, gay/straight, mentally ill/sane..


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Originally Posted By: Haus
Read about twins studies, with an emphasis on identical twins reared apart. Minnesota Twin Family Study would be a good place to start.

TL;DR version: what you find is that identical twins often have striking similarities in terms of achievement, intelligence, personality, political views, what music they like, etc. This is true regardless of whether they were raised together or apart.

I've read about that, not sure it was that exact study but I've read articles about that.. fascinating stuff.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Ok, but what about other stuff like work ethic, self confidence, and other things that are considered more personality traits.. those aren't biological.


You asked what else, I thought of IQ... I didn't know I'd be grilled for not making a complete list of all possible things.

I'd say some are some aren't.

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Quote:
Then why do they give people pills for depression, bipolar disorder, etc., etc.

The cynical answer to that is because big pharma and the doctors have convinced us we need them...

Quote:
If you believe in a normative psychological mindset, then the only thing getting in the way of that is the chemistry of the brain, according to nueroscience.

Do you believe in a normative psychological mindset?


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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: 442Dawg
You can't convert someone either way. That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. It's not a choice.


How many Homosexual 5 year olds do you know?


I shared a room with one.


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J/C

It's amazing how many experts we have on this board about being a homosexual.

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Originally Posted By: JulesDawg
J/C

It's amazing how many experts we have on this board about being a homosexual.


It's a thang...

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Instructive video eh?

I hope they go into the difficulties of a life of "Gay Bowel Syndrome".

A host of anal sex related maladies not the least of which is an irreversible stretching of the sphincter muscle leading to a life of incontinence.

Conveniently not suffered by lesbians. (usually)

It is meant to be an instructive video, right?

Although they have made great strides in adult diapers.



"Tennis anyone?"

"Hey, Charlie, something smell funny to you?"

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Originally Posted By: JulesDawg
J/C

It's amazing how many experts we have on this board about being a homosexual.

Well, I have this friend... tongue


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There are some very "different" people on this board. Man!

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But what he said is true. Gay Bowel Syndrome is a real thang.

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J/C


The fascination that some of the men on this board have about the act of gay sex is interesting.

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Certainly detailed and graphic, isn't it?

Whassup with that, I wonder.


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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Originally Posted By: JulesDawg
J/C


The fascination that some of the men on this board have about the act of gay sex is interesting.


Well, Gays decided they wanted to go main stream and become part of the happy family so here they are. Now we are looking, questioning and wondering. Gay on full display! Just like they wanted.

Then they decide to get married like everybody else in the family so here they are, Gay, getting married, Gay on full display! Just like they wanted.

We go to a wedding for people my wife works with and there are 2 men up front! They get to the part about if anyone knows a reasons...speak now or forever hold your peace, I start getting up and the wife shoots me a look that would kill a lesser man!

Wife and I, watching the TV, flipping channels, when I come across two heavily bearded men, eyeballing each other, thought it was the beginning of a fight when DON'T LOOK MARTHA!!! They started kissing!

OH MAN! I Yelled!

Wife says calm yourself and put on Wheel of Fortune, Vanna will be wearing a nice gown.

So I keep referring back to what I had just seen and she tells me to get over it, it's a new day. I lose it and say I haven't kissed a beard like that since your aunt Emma visited back....

Now I'm in trouble.

So we finish watching Wheel when the guy who won gets to spin for the big money at the end. Pat asks him who is with him in the audience today and the guy introduces HIS HUSBAND JOHN!!!

That's it! I am outta here! Down to the bunker cuz the stinking world is ending!

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Hey Jules. I'm sorry that you have to read the crap from those guys. I'm sorry that you have to face a world that embraces such bias.

All I know is that I think you are one of the finest human beings I have talked to and I will always have your back.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: JulesDawg
J/C


The fascination that some of the men on this board have about the act of gay sex is interesting.


Well, Gays decided they wanted to go main stream and become part of the happy family so here they are. Now we are looking, questioning and wondering. Gay on full display! Just like they wanted.

Then they decide to get married like everybody else in the family so here they are, Gay, getting married, Gay on full display! Just like they wanted.

We go to a wedding for people my wife works with and there are 2 men up front! They get to the part about if anyone knows a reasons...speak now or forever hold your peace, I start getting up and the wife shoots me a look that would kill a lesser man!

Wife and I, watching the TV, flipping channels, when I come across two heavily bearded men, eyeballing each other, thought it was the beginning of a fight when DON'T LOOK MARTHA!!! They started kissing!

OH MAN! I Yelled!

Wife says calm yourself and put on Wheel of Fortune, Vanna will be wearing a nice gown.

So I keep referring back to what I had just seen and she tells me to get over it, it's a new day. I lose it and say I haven't kissed a beard like that since your aunt Emma visited back....

Now I'm in trouble.

So we finish watching Wheel when the guy who won gets to spin for the big money at the end. Pat asks him who is with him in the audience today and the guy introduces HIS HUSBAND JOHN!!!

That's it! I am outta here! Down to the bunker cuz the stinking world is ending!


You're trying entirely too hard.

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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I honestly think public schools should all have open enrollment, the school boards should be able to dictate curriculum and parents should have a voice at school board meetings. Parents could then choose they school with the curriculum the prefer and send their kids there, let the market decide what kids should be taught and not.

By doing this conservatives and liberals would be able to expose their kids to what they think is appropriate. then when the kids hit the job market, their educations will determine how well they do.

We might eliminate the worst of both worlds like participation trophy kids and religious zealot teachings.



So basically we send our kids to lib schools or conservative schools...that would solve todays problems for sure...lol


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
You gotta give it up to 40 for choosing to be only attracted to one woman for his entire life.


Thank you.
I made that life choice 30 years ago. thumbsup


To be fair, did you really make that choice? It was never a choice for me.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I honestly think public schools should all have open enrollment, the school boards should be able to dictate curriculum and parents should have a voice at school board meetings. Parents could then choose they school with the curriculum the prefer and send their kids there, let the market decide what kids should be taught and not.

By doing this conservatives and liberals would be able to expose their kids to what they think is appropriate. then when the kids hit the job market, their educations will determine how well they do.

We might eliminate the worst of both worlds like participation trophy kids and religious zealot teachings.



So basically we send our kids to lib schools or conservative schools...that would solve todays problems for sure...lol


Can't have it both ways. Don't like liberal ideas in schools, want more conservative schools. Lib's don't want that. So you have to find a happy middle or just do separate schools. What do you think privatized schools will offer?

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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Ok, but what about other stuff like work ethic, self confidence, and other things that are considered more personality traits.. those aren't biological.


You asked what else, I thought of IQ... I didn't know I'd be grilled for not making a complete list of all possible things.

I'd say some are some aren't.


Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Can't have it both ways. Don't like liberal ideas in schools, want more conservative schools. Lib's don't want that. So you have to find a happy middle or just do separate schools. What do you think privatized schools will offer?

Interesting comments here about IQ being hereditary and your pro-school choice arguments. I do think you have to be careful though-- many of your fellow leftists do not take kindly to these 'problematic' ideas.

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Originally Posted By: Haus
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Ok, but what about other stuff like work ethic, self confidence, and other things that are considered more personality traits.. those aren't biological.


You asked what else, I thought of IQ... I didn't know I'd be grilled for not making a complete list of all possible things.

I'd say some are some aren't.


Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Can't have it both ways. Don't like liberal ideas in schools, want more conservative schools. Lib's don't want that. So you have to find a happy middle or just do separate schools. What do you think privatized schools will offer?

Interesting comments here about IQ being hereditary and your pro-school choice arguments. I do think you have to be careful though-- many of your fellow leftists do not take kindly to these 'problematic' ideas.


I never said IQ is hereditary, the question asked what else was "biologically hardwired" as in you are born that way.

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Fair enough. When you say something is biologically hardwired and people are born a certain way, that implies a certain degree of heritability. Or maybe not.

In any case, it actually is a highly heritable trait, although this is a case where the research and PC culture are at odds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Quote:
Research on heritability of IQ implies, from the similarity of IQ in closely related persons, the proportion of variance of IQ among individuals in a study population that is associated with genetic variation within that population. This provides a maximum estimate of genetic versus environmental influence for phenotypic variation in IQ in that population. "Heritability", in this sense, "refers to the genetic contribution to variance within a population and in a specific environment".[1] In other words, heritability is a mathematical estimate that indicates how much of a trait's variation can be attributed to genes. There has been significant controversy in the academic community about the heritability of IQ since research on the issue began in the late nineteenth century.[2] Intelligence in the normal range is a polygenic trait, meaning that it is influenced by more than one gene.[3][4]

The heritability of IQ for adults is between 58% and 77%[5] (with some more-recent estimates as high as 80%[6] and 86%.[7]) Genome-wide association studies have identified inherited genome sequence differences that account for 20% of the 50% of the genetic variation that contributes to heritability.[8] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics, for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults. The heritability of IQ increases with age and reaches an asymptote at 18–20 years of age and continues at that level well into adulthood. This phenomenon is known as the Wilson Effect.[9] Recent studies suggest that family and parenting characteristics are not significant contributors to variation in IQ scores;[10] however, poor prenatal environment, malnutrition and disease can have deleterious effects.[11][12]

Last edited by Haus; 07/04/18 04:28 PM.
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