DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Hate Crimes Against Hispanics

These next two personal stories don't involve actual crimes that are punishable by our legal system, but they speak of a societal crime against minorities.

The first occurred on Wednesday of this week. I was tutoring a student when my door bell rang. I crossed the house to answer it and no one was on my front porch. I quickly noticed a young black man standing in my yard. He politely stated that he was working in the neighborhood and asked if I would like to have him put pine straw in our landscaping beds. I told him "no thank you" and "good luck" and he was on his way. I closed the door and felt really bad. We live in a neighborhood w/a lot of larger homes. This guy probably realized that he would look out of place standing on our porches. Thus, he rings the doorbell and retreats to the yard so as to not give a threatening appearance. I think posters like Clem and Swish have indicated how frustrating this mind-set is. You face it every day of your life.

The second involves the many Hispanic lawn workers that I have seen while riding my bike. They always avert their eyes when I'm approaching. Why would that be? Guilt that is initiated by poor treatment. We've probably all encountered a snobby person who has looked down their noses at us. Or, a teacher or employer who talks down to you. Somehow, we feel guilty for being who we are. Even worse, we feel inferior. My thinking is that these Hispanic workers trudge through life while carrying this burden.

We need change! We need to stop these whole-group classifications. We need to stop profiling entire groups of people and deal w/individuals. We should treat all people w/respect and afford them their proper dignity until that "individual" does something to lose those rights.

I can't stop laughing at this. "I was the only Caucasian, here's a picture" is Michael Scott-level oblivious.

"I did taxes for several Puerto Ricans once. They're just like regular people. We all worked together towards a common goal and no one was racist"

Revealing.

On that first one it's not racial. When I used to do landscaping and went door to door to advertise for it I always stepped back and away from the door a good bit for a couple of good reasons. One I am a very big dude and if the lady of the house answers the door it's very threatening and intimidating to them to open the door if I am right on it. Two, some people get really offended and belligerent about having a stranger knock on their door so it's good to have a head start on getting the heck out of there if things go south.

On the second one, it's hard to say but most hispanics I know are pretty laid back and don't like to rock the boat. They tend to avoid conflict in general but they have no problems looking you in the eyes. Not just in the USA but abroad too. The ones here illegally though are the ones that tend to avert their eyes and have that shuffle step where you can tell they are ready to bolt if things get intense.

No offense, but I think you may have missed the "point" of the two anecdotes.

None taken. I understood your point. I'm just pointing out it may not have been what you were thinking it was so I gave some examples from my personal experience where they are not.

I'm well aware that SOME cases are what your thinking to be sure. I just say be wary of accepting this idea that because your better off than some that it causes them to feel lesser around you. Some people are just naturally docile and anxious. Some folks just get like that around strangers and others are like that all the time. It doesn't have to be race specific or related to race at all.

Those working menial jobs though do tend to have this characteristic in themselves. It's one of those things where when you have that type of personality you tend to end up with those kind of jobs rather than ones that demand you be confident and outgoing.

I like to study behavioral psychology sometimes for fun and self enlightenment. You might enjoy this book if you have not already read it yourself.

https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slo...ASIN=0374533555

This next book is a must read I think for understanding basic human personalities and is required reading for most teacher edu programs these days. You might have already read it but if not I think it's an awesome read.

https://www.amazon.com/Type-Talk-Personality-Types-Determine/dp/0440507049

I wish my friend Clem would come on and address what I was talking about. I'm white, so it's hard to prove my point if someone wants to debate it.

I'm pretty damn confident in the points I made, though. You can disagree, but I really don't want to argue about it.

That's going to be happening less and less as time grinds on.

I spent the better share of a decade becoming a member in good standing in this community... and now, I'm more inclined to steer clear than participate.

The quality of company around here changed soon after the official board closed down, and it's not just me who has noticed. This place now carries the scent of Browns Chat... and I never liked it there.

It's no coincidence that many of the names you've known since Prp first opened shop are no longer around. My PM inbox is filled with some of their last communiques at this address... and most of them expressed the same sentiments you are reading from me now. I keep them around to remind myself of how this place used to be.

I read some of the everyday garbage that blows up and down these streets and think to myself: "Damn! U.S. NavyDawg (Ret) really should come back. He was ahead of his time here, and would fit in nicely now."

Vers: these people know what I'd say. They know who I am and what I represent. Nothing I have said in here has made the slightest bit of difference to them. If it had, there would be a detectable difference in their rhetoric.

And since my presence has had precious little positive impact, it's becoming apparent to me that I should consider moving on. I'll probably be PM'ing those few folks with whom I'd like to maintain contact, but I may just stop coming and bail without ceremony.

I gave up cigarettes more than a year ago. I cleaned house with some everyday folks who used to be in my real life, but were real downers. I'm sleeping better, playing better and enjoying life a bit more with fewer of the toxins in my daily diet. It may just be that this place needs to be added to the 'jettison list.'

Love to help, Vers... but I'm too old to be wasting even another minute engaging with folks who don't make life better. I wish you luck in your quest, but 55 years of this crap has me worn tf out.

Bless you brother,
I'm out.

I understand. I respect that point of view. I'm disappointed.

Just know this, I have empathy for those who are in the situations I have described. People can make up excuses for such things, but I know what happens when people are beat down by society and have to live a life like they are walking on egg shells.

I'm sorry.

I Hate Hate Crimes.

Don't apologize.

And don't get me wrong. I feel this way because I refuse to walk on eggshells. My family upbringing doesn't allow for that. Find my Family Heritage thread in EE to see what my name represents.

I'm just done preaching Truth to rocks.
Lately, I've been volunteering in voter registration efforts around here. It's boatloads more rewarding than verbally slam dancing in PP with folks who want to recreate 1930's Germany. I can do more good IRL than at this cyberhole.

Fight on, Vers. I admire you. I'm taking my efforts elswhere.


best,
Clem.

I get frustrated, too. I don't post in this forum that often because it sometimes gives me an ill feeling right down to the marrow. However, I think all people are deserving of equal rights and shouldn't face the circumstances that have been discussed in this thread and many others. They need a voice!

I wouldn't dare to try to give you advice, bro. However, you and I have talked each other through some of the Brown's issues. We would talk each other off the ledge, so to speak.

Clem, I think people do listen to you. You are very well respected on here. Perhaps more than anyone. People love reading your messages and respect your ability as a wordsmith. You do make a difference w/those who count.

I don't always agree w/your takes, but I always respect them. And when that black man was in my yard the other day.....well....the first thing I thought of was some of the stories that you, Swish, and a couple of others have told. I understood exactly what you meant when you shared those stories. Clem, this board NEEDS you.

I want to clarify what happened. Our front porch is high. Several steps take you up to it. Our front yard is about half an acre and the dude was around the halfway point. I didn't even see him at first. I knew what he was doing and why. If I hadn't been tutoring, I would have chased him down after I refused his services and had him come in for something to drink and some conversation. I saw his eyes and it really saddened me.

That is a pis-ant little story w/no flair or dramatics. However, the message is fairly significant. No person who is pursuing honorable intents should feel like a second-class citizen due to his race.

Clem, you and I are the same age and we both grow tired. However, I'll never stop fighting for what is right.

Just look at all the HATE on Trump!

People are friggin idiots... I think we have an immigration problem in this country but beating someone up with a brick is no where near the answer... unbelievable...

There is no way anyone can defend these actions.... just deplorable...

One of my favorite authors is Toni Morrison. I remember reading Song of Solomon when I was a freshman in high school. I was blown away by how well this woman could string words together. I was equally impressed w/how she elegantly crafted the story. I loved the ambiguity. I dove right in to trying to read in between every line. It was one of the most important books in me deciding to pursue an English degree in college.

I recently read this:



I think this is important. I think it speaks to generational poverty. I think it speaks to how blacks feel marginalized in a predominantly white society. I think that it is tough to overcome a situation when one's earliest ancestors in this country were slaves and the following generations were engulfed in a world of poverty. I know first-hand how hard it is to escape poverty.

I look at blacks and other minorities whose families were able to escape the clutches of poverty. They are successful. They have high-paying jobs, live in nice neighborhoods, drive nice cars, are law-abiding citizens, etc.

So, how can one refer to blacks [or other minorities] in an all-encompassing manner? This leads me back to Toni Morrison's remarks. Living in poverty when "hope" is just a word that reminds you of your despair and facing the heavy burden of being looked down upon and being marginalized by those who are in the majority leads one to a sort of self-loathing, or at the very least, a sense of hopelessness, despair, and a feeling of inadequacy. That attitude is quickly assimilated by one's children and the cycle of despair and hopelessness grinds on.

As human beings, we need to find ways to bring hope to all of our citizens. We will always have social deviants, criminals, shiftless people, con-artists, etc.........but for the love of all that is right and just in this world.......we should support our fellow human beings instead of inflicting hate and bias towards entire groups of people.

Hmmmm....I have the dates wrong. I read Song of Solomon when I was a sophomore in college. Sorry about that.

There are very few glimmers of light that keep me posting here. You are one of those few. I agree that this place more closely resembles Browns Chat than the Dawg Talk/Dawgtalkers we all came to love and know. It's a very sad reality.

At this juncture my mind set is that if you leave, you will not be leaving alone.

Yes, reminds me of the elderly gentleman here who was beaten with a brick for wearing his Trump hat. Very sad, very hateful.

And those people that were decapitated.

Cop fatally shot after suspect attacks him with rock, steals gun: officials

https://nypost.com/2018/07/15/cop-fatall...-gun-officials/

A suspect fleeing a car crash near Boston allegedly stole a cop’s gun and then shot dead the officer and an innocent bystander Sunday.

Weymouth police officer Michael Chensa, 42, was chasing Emmanuel Lopes after Lopes was involved in a car wreck around 7:30 a.m. — when Lopes allegedly bashed Chensa with a stone, sending the officer tumbling to the ground.

Authorities say Lopes then took Chensa’s service weapon and blasted him several times in the head and chest before resuming his flight.

As other officers gave chase, Lopes allegedly squeezed off three more rounds, missing his pursuers but fatally striking an unidentified elderly woman as she sat inside her house.

Chensa was taken to South Shore Hospital but the Army veteran, husband and father succumbed to his wounds there, according to masslive.com.

Lopes, who was later arrested, suffered a leg wound.

Why do you keep trying to hijack this thread?

I asked myself...what would Vers do?

Clem...............arch actually liked Vambo's post. I understand why you are tired of fighting the "rocks." I'm tired, too.

I just got off a so-called Pure Football thread where a dude lied his ass off and somehow, I got all the criticism for asking for validation. They actually said I was the one making things up even though I didn't make any claims.

I'm about done, too.

I love how you drag me into it, based on liking a post.

Sad.

Here's the thing Vers & Clem,

Those of us on this side of the ideological isle grew tired years ago of those of you (Clem excluded for the most part) of hiding our 'true motives' as you would say behind the things we say here.

What surprises me is that on or about election night in that 'I'm listening' type thread posted by one of the Oregoonians I think it was it was Vers that gave what I think was one of the most enlightened reasonings of why that night went the way it did.

And apart from Clem, the warm and fuzzies coming from the left were gone within (I'm being generous with this estimattion) maybe three weeks and then we were back to the whole 'you're hiding your bigotry and hate behind this or that.

I almost gave up on this place a few weeks back when Clem used the term 'trumpanzee' myself.

See, I could live with a person criticizing Trump, he's in the office, he certainly invites it, so he deserves it.

But when Clem, the elder statesman of DawgTalkers (who caused me to up my posting game and get out of the 'gotcha' posts) stooped down to insulting his neighbors, that about did it for me.

'Bout a year or so ago (can't remember exactly) Vers and I were going back and forth in (yet another illegal immigration thread), I made my case without insult, Vers decided that despite my case having to do with the fact that illegals will drive down the wages in my industry that 'something something YOUR RACIST ASS...' Vers words to me.

You see, neither of you are any better than those you're tired of anymore.

Sorry to see you go Clem, Vers, wouldn't miss you for a second.

But hey, don't let the door hit either of you on the way out.

Awesome post.

I'll only add this: Vers has called me racist - just this week.

Sorry men/women - if you're calling me ME racist, you have issues.

Thanks arch. Don't know you personally, but from being on the board Clem sure thinks highly of you, and that does mean something.

Is that why you have a problem with me? Because you think I called you racist?

Interesting, but I have no idea what it has to do with "Hate Crimes Against Hispanics" or other minorities.

You might not miss me, but you certainly deserve Vambo, arch, and 40.

Isn't this the thread you and Clem were bemoaning 'teaching wisdom to rocks'?
That's why this is here.

As far as the posters you've mentioned, sure no one's perfect, but I'll take those guys who deal straight up rather than someone like you who just can't compute that someone might have a differing opinion than yourself without rationalizing that they must be hiding some ulterior motive.

Rather tired of dealing with you condescending wanna be clairvoyants.

You are making things personal, just like those other "straight-up" posters. Great deflection tactic. Meanwhile:

I meant to address this last night.

You seem to have taken very personally my remarks about rocks and trumpanzees. Given the civility with which you and I have always conversed, what makes you think I was ever talking about you?

I understand that you voted for Donald Trump. Lots of people did (for a number of reasons)
I understand that you did not live 'My American Experience.'

But those facts do not automatically make you guilty of being either of those pejoratives.

So... after all our conversations, what made you automatically assume that I lumped you into either of those categories? Wouldn't you have seen some indication before now that I held you at this level of low esteem?

The only conclusion I can reach (at this time) is that you read my words, assumed a tribal posture and cast me as an adversary. Even though you and I have never really crossed words.

This is now the second time you have taken personally something I said about others. I hope I just caught you on a bad day. Otherwise, I'll be compelled to think this is part of a pattern.

Dude...???


p.s. The rocks and trumpanzees know who they are. I've not been subtle about my regard for them. Because subtle doesn't work on them as well as a baseball bat does.

This is all true, for many of us. Things changed dramatically here when that board folded. It is people on both ends of the political spectrum who have lead to the downfall, something I wonder if you might not be able to recognize anymore, my friend Clem. Given your recent posts, I’m not sure you can.

I do stay away from here because of the absolute partisanship here. The labeling, the finger pointing, the elitist BS, the true racism and the false victimization....the last two being something I would love to really discuss, but could never happen on the board as it is now.

The political and social discussion we used to have on this board is done, which is why I told you a long time ago I wouldn’t be around much. We actually used to really hash it out, get a bit ugly, but always end up respecting each other and ignoring the true trolls. Now they get all the attention, and the discussion becomes juvenile and monotonous.

As to the the actual topic, sorry Vers, but I think the side discussion needed to happen. I work all across this country while doing my job. I spend long periods of time in the places I go, and in the last 10 years I have mostly worked out west. I have worked in either mixed groups, or at times, I have been the only non-Hispanic in the departments I direct. I realize there are, and am infuriated by instances of bigotry around this country, but I must tell you, in my experiences over the last decade, people I work with are respectful and actually loving to to each other when many different races and groups work together. I am still very close with everyone in these hospitals that I have worked with and it’s been a great experience. I realize terrible things are done by others to every minority and it’s reported the hell out of by every media outlet, however there are those of us out in the real world who see a different world every day.

I believe the the most powerful thing we can do as individuals is to stand up against any type of bigotry. My father showed me this at 5 years old. We moved into a new home where I spent the rest of my life growing up. He invited the man next door to throw horseshoes the first week we were there. I remember standing next to the greatest man in the world as they began to throw, when the other man used the N word. That sweet, gentle man turned to that hateful being and said....get out of my yard. My parents lived there for 20 more years next to those people, and they never spoke another word. I got the message loud and clear from the greatest man in the world.

It’s a simple message......

Thanks Jules. That was a very nice post. I have no problem w/you disagreeing w/me about the side discussion. You did so respectfully and w/thoughtfulness. I do think Vambo [I know his history, dating back to the official board] and I think he was trying to hijack the conversation and steer it towards hating a minority group.

I miss your posts. I have always thought of you as an intelligent person who is tough, yet compassionate.

Oh, and say hi to Michelle for me. I miss her, too.

I read/skimmed every post about the attacker and the elderly Latino man and how Trump is partly to blame....unless I missed it no one pointed out that the attacker was black and odds are not a Trump supporter.....and yet I am to believe that Trump radicalized her?

Again maybe I missed that her ID was already posted.....there were 150 posts.

Hiya, Vers.

teedub, this story is bigger than just the initial post. It's about hate crimes against Hispanics in a specific sense and hate crimes against minorities in a general sense.

It's up to the individual if he/she believes Trump is responsible for the increase in hate crimes against Hispanics.

One might argue that Trump's attitude towards Hispanics has increased the amount of disdain among US citizens against Hispanics. Ignorance follows ignorance.

A larger point is that there are bigoted, hateful people in all races that are biased against other groups. Not all Hispanics are good. Nor are they all bad. Same goes for blacks, whites, men, women, gays, straights, religious folks, non-religious folks, etc.

The big picture tells me that we should not assign labels to entire groups, but instead judge individuals based on their own particular actions, beliefs, and ideals.

Oh wow! Awesome!

Hey Michelle!!!

She was wearing a MAGA hat during the debate. You can tell that the twin trolls 40 and Vambo never go beyond a Fox News/Breitbart link or they would've been boasting about black people being racist.