DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Roster: Evaluations and Expectations

I have been reading quite a few posts about our improved roster and optimistic expectations. Additionally, bonefish had a nice evaluation of the roster and his expectations on the Hue thread, but I knew it would get buried because of how certain posters feel about Hue. Anyway, I decided to share my thoughts on the topic.

I do think the roster is much-improved. We have added experience and talent. The draft was very disappointing for me because I think we reached on all of our top picks. I think our record will improve, but I am not quite as optimistic as some folks due to a few important reasons. Let's look at some of the factors.

Positional groups:

QB: The qb room is improved. It was awful last year. We entered the year w/out having a qb who owned a single win in the NFL. That's amazing. Taylor is an upgrade over Kizer. There is no doubt about that. With that being said, I think he holds the ball too long, doesn't throw w/anticipation, and is inconsistent w/his accuracy. I think the Bills made the playoffs in spite of him last year, rather than him leading them to the playoffs. While I think that the position is in much better hands due to Taylor's experience and how he takes care of the ball, I still think that we are well below average at the most important position on the field. That's is significant in my eyes.

RB: I can't say we improved at RB. I know people did not like Crow, but I really can't say that the Hyde/Chubb combination is better that Crow. I don't think we got worse, either. It's pretty much a push.

WR: Entering last season, I thought we had the worst group of receivers in the entire NFL. This year, it's a completely different situation. Many are saying that we have one of--if not the--best units in the league. That's amazing! We have Gordon entering the year. We all understand how gifted he is. That's a huge improvement simply by itself. However, we added one of the very best receivers in the entire NFL when we traded for Landry. I think some people truly underestimate his abilities. I am predicting he will have a huge year. I'm not as sure about Gordon, because of how Taylor plays qb. I don't know enough about Calloway to offer a sound opinion.

TE: The key guys are the same, but have gained a year of experience. I have questions about their blocking, hands, and route running. The potential is good, but they are really inconsistent. Adding Fells is a good move. He can block and is a nice red zone target, especially inside the 10 yd. line.

OL: Losing Joe is huge. There is no way this year's OL is as good as last year's. We have major question marks at both tackle positions. The interior remains strong, but how the tackles play is a key to the fortunes of this year's offense.

I'm going to take a break, but will be back to talk about the defense, the coaching staff, and the intangibles. I'll also offer a prediction of sorts.

I think the RB room has improved. Not that I hated Crow ... he was a reliable player for us, but adding Hyde and Chubb has to supersede what Crow offered.

Yes, Hyde has injury history and Chubb is a rookie who is unproven, but I think they'll work out fine in their roles.

As I said in another thread, I like the balance of the RB group (similarly how I feel about the WRs now too)

QB: For me, the biggest thing is this: since our return, Hoyer (and perhaps tied with Anderson) are the best, most productive QB's that we've seen here. Taylor is better than both of them in pretty much every way.

That probably speaks more to how low the bar has been set rather than how high Taylor is raising it, but it also states that we're in for a treat compared to what we've seen to date.



WR: If nothing else, this group EASILY has the potential to eclipse the crew we had in 2007. Landry should easily be able to fill the shoes of Jureviscius and Gordon is better than Braylon the moment he steps on the field.... and we actually have additional options at WR after that.

TE: Continuing the comparison to what we saw in 2007, Njoku is a direct comparison to Soldja, and with some maturation, I think he's up to the task - though, Winslow's hands were amazing and Njoku has work to do in that regard.

RB: The potential of Chubb, who I've heard people talk about his feet the way folks used to talk about Jamal Lewis', is intriguing. Aside from that, this group is workmanlike and rather pedestrian, but more than good enough to get things done.

OL: There isn't much to say here except that everything hinges on how the tackle positions shake out and hold up.


All in all, this offense has the potential and the pieces to be as dynamic and productive as our 2007 offense - ON PAPER.

There are a lot of pieces that have to come together and a lot of younger guys that need to step up into their potential in order for that to happen, but the opportunity is there for the taking for this offense to be really, really good.

I have to disagree at RB. While I liked Crow he did tend to have to many plays where he lost yards, or gained little to no yardage. He didn't hit the line hard and fast like Hide and Chubb will. I believe we will have a lot more 3nd and 3 or 3rd and 4, instead of 3rd and 6, or 3rd and 7. I believe out RB just for that reason alone are improved.

Vers, Brock Osweiler had some wins under his belt in the NFL, and Josh McCown was released... So I don't think people thought the QB position was that bad last year to start with.

Is TT better than Josh... IMHO, yes but the margin isn't that big.

Regarding the WR's: Yes I think we improved,but last year we signed Britt and thought that Colemon was going to flourish on his 2nd seasons.

Gordon had one good season so far with us, so you never know what will happen. Landry sounds good on paper, lets see.

RB position. Hyde and Chubb aren't top notch RB's, but I guess we will not be running the ball that much.

TE: Njoku is improving, Seth I think will have problems after sending his QB under the bus last year...

OL: We lost a probowler LT...

All and all we improved, but that was the feeling we had last year also....

Haley was the biggest improvement IMHO, if it wasn't for him, I would say that we would be roughly the same.

RB should be improved. We invested a lot of money into the position. I believe we will lose some of the big play threat that Crow brought but we will gain more consistency from the position. One thing to keep in mind, Chubb began to show some signs in the latter half of the year of the back he used to be before the injury and that RB preinjury was Hershell Walker Bo Jackson type talent. Wasnt there every week but there were signs.

OL, will be a big reason why the run game improves. I think the Browns will replace Tretter. Reiter has a legit chance to man the position along with the rookie we drafted in the 2nd. I loved Joe Thomas he was an underrated run blocker but Shon is a beast of a run blocker. Dude is just crazy strong.

WR is wow. Our 1 and 2 receivers entering last season may not even make the roster. If these Qbs can get gordon the ball in space and allow him to create YAC, it is gonna be a special year. Landry is on the path for the Hall. Think about that. If Baker is as accurate as this regime thinks he will be, then this group is incrediblly dangerous and deep as well.

QB, I just dont know. I hear talk of how accurate Taylor has been and keep thinking, umm he has been horribly inaccurate. He tucked it and ran at times because, he had missed wide open guys so bad the play before, next guy comes open he would run. Our OL cant hold a pocket long enough for him. If Baker is as good as we are being led to believe, he will beat out tyrod, its that simple. If he cant and I know the plan is for him to sit, but if he cant, it does not bode well for the Browns QB position.

Baker working with these receivers prior to camp is going to pay off. Camp Colt was a good idea just didnt work because of his talent and the talent of the receivers but he needs to develop timing with these guys and develop an understanding of where the receiver wants the ball.

Now with all that said Tyrod has a chance to prove he is the guy. Pads go on, its no longer walkthrough situations, he now has to prove he can see the field and make the throws. If he does, he can be the Farve keeping Rodgers on the pines.


TE I love this group. No one is talking about them but it may be the strongest group we have had since K2, Heiden and Mustard. With the run game and receivers gaining the attention the middle will be available for big plays for this group.

I think Hue has been great at gameplanning but having Haley making the gameday calls, will help. If they can combine their talents this could work. It could also be a public blowup.

Defensively its all about the back end. Secondary was made for zone last year and we had a DC wanting to press. Now we have guys that can press the edges and we have a true free safety. The improvement here is bigger than even widereceiver. Almost as much change as QB position.

Up front we shipped big Danny. We wanted him to get leaner and he showed up heavier and we traded him. I am disappointed in that we couldnt find a way to keep him and we will miss him on run downs but i like our front 4. Its time for these guys to be difference makers.
the lunch pail kids in the middle, gotta make a difference.

No excuses for our DEs we have invested a lot and we have a secondary that should be able to hold long enough for the rush to get there. The kid we got from Memphis was a steal at 67. Chad Thomas imho was every bit the pass rusher that Chubb was imho has more upside. He could be the 3rd guy in the rotation early.

Linebackers we have 4 probowl talents. No excuses for this group as they are young fast and most importantly experienced.

We have the parts but I question QB on offense and the front 4 on defense. These positions are surrounded with talent, they jhust have to get it done.

I'll add to Tab's point here:

We picked up a no-less-than-serviceable-to-very-good veteran player at EVERY position group on the team:

Taylor
Hyde
Landry
Fells
Hubbard

Smith
Kendricks
Randall
Carrie, Gaines, Mitchell

The time was perfect to add some vets to the mix of youth and more youth.

The transformation is impressive.

j/c

I'm not as high on Njoku as some others. To me, he's not a good enough blocker (yes, TE's can get away with this more now) and his hands were inconsistent.

He's gotta improve a lot to live up to a 1st round TE IMO

The Defense:

Interior Line: I think trading Shelton and getting so little in return is rather risky. It's obvious they weren't happy w/him, but our run D was decent last year. I am not going to make any predictions, but I will be watching the DT rotation guys very closely this year. I think they are a significant question mark.

DEs: It will be huge for us if we keep Myles and Ogbah healthy all year. They are both good players and Myles has a chance to be special. Our depth is adequate. I like this unit.

LBers: Adding Kendricks was nice. He played for the Super Bowl champion and we need vets who have experienced winning. He is also a very good cover LBer. He's a pretty agile guy. I'm okay w/our LBers. One of the more solid units on the team last year.

Corners: Should be improved. I think Ward has a chance to be special, but there will be some growing pains. EJ Gains is a guy I liked since college. If he stays healthy, he will be a big asset. Carey is a guy who is getting some props, but I watch a lot of football and the Raider secondary was horrid. Overall, I think there are questions about the group, but it should much improved from last year's group, which was perhaps the worst in the NFL and compromised what we could do on D.

Safeties: Moving Peppers out of the FS spot is a plus. I can't comment too much on Randall because he played corner in Green Bay. I think how he plays is the most important key to how good/bad our D will be this year. We have two SS's who are pretty good against the run and in the box. Both are poor in coverage though and once again, we'll be asking more from our LBers than we should.

Overall, I think it's fairly safe to say our D looks better on paper this year than it was last year.

I'll be back to talk about some important intangibles and my overall expectations for the team.

Oh, before I go.........a few of you questioned my RB evaluation. I did not say we were worse. I just don't know if we are better. My main reason for that is that Crow broke a lot of long, long runs where he took it for the distance. I don't think either Hyde or Chubb will give us that same element. Grinding it out can be nice, but breaking long explosive plays does a lot for a team.

RB: I think we're improved at RB because of Hyde. Anything Chubb gives us is gravy, imo. It's a tough decision, but I think I'd take Hyde over the Crow (and I mostly liked Crow). At the time, I would've preferred us to keep Crow, but now that that ship has sailed and we went out and got Hyde, I'm ok with where we're at (and I'm a homer).

WR: My first reaction is to temper everyone's expectations regarding this WR group. I get worried when there's so much positive vibes for the Browns heading into the preseason. :-p I'll keep myself in check until I see them play for real on Sunday. I know we made quite a few very impactful roster changes (QB, OC, WR), but I still have a hard time believing that we'll turn last years pass offense into something approaching NFL-caliber in one offseason. It's too big a jump in too short a time, imo.

OL: I think this will heavily depend on how we call plays. If we run more than we pass, I think our weakness at tackle will be less pronounced. I think if we continue right where we left last year, passing with wild abandon, I think our weaknesses at tackle will be more pronounced... despite our big FA and draft pickups. I still think we have to be a more conservative offense... can't just try to break the passing game wide open.

QB: I like the Taylor pickup. No, he will no set the world on fire, but I think he'll do just enough to not hold back the offense. I think our perimeter weapons, along with a fairly competent QB, will give defenses pause and will open up the run game. This is my hope at least. We didn't bring him in to set the world on fire. We brought him in to have something resembling competence at the position day 1. There is a huge difference between the two (even though people will say he's our savior despite understanding that last part.... he's our savior by only being competent on day 1).

TE: Hopefully Njoku becomes more consistent at catching the ball. Blocking wouldn't hurt either.

The past few years I've actually avoided threads like these because there really hasn't been much if anything positive to add. Makes it kind of hard with giving your opinions when there's nothing good to say. But I do feel more positive this season. I still say these type of things are too unpredictable with injuries and cuts coming to have any real accuracy, but here goes nothing. lol

QB: My views on the QB position pretty much mirror yours. I think Taylor has played too long in the league to transform his game into something he's never been. It's no impossible but it's highly unlikely. Lack of anticipation, holding the ball breaking away from the pocket too quickly and sporadic consistency aren't things that I believe will magically disappear. Yet at the same time it's not unrealistic to believe we may see some improvement in certain areas.

All that being said, he's still the best QB we've had around in a very long time. The ball security factor alone would have netted us a hand full of wins last year and I can't see that improvement as not having a positive impact.

RB: We differ here slightly but not by a wide margin. One reason for that I believe is that I believe I like Chubb a little more than you do. But mainly the biggest difference I see is having two big backs. It's very rare these days to have a single big back that can slowly wear down an NFL defense anymore. Now I love having Duke as a change of pace back, but having two work horses that over the course of a game can punish the opposing defense is something I love to see and I'm hoping the Hyde/Chubb combination can accomplish that.

WR: This is the most exciting part of my view on the offense. This unit has transformed into a serious strength. If both Gordon and Callaway can stay clean, we have one helluva WR core. Yes, I'm including Callaway here. I think there all but a very few posters that understand the quality we added in Landry. If we can keep at least two other real threats on the along with Landry, I would find it hard for opposing defenses to be able to stop our passing game.

TE: We did add a very good blocking TE in Fells that means more than some may be aware of. While the potential of Njoku is exciting I've been burned by potential so many times it makes my stomach turn. So while I hope for the best from him I keep those feelings somewhat guarded.

OL: This is my biggest concern on this offense. The interior looks fairly stout but I wasn't as sold on those FA signings as some were. I've seen virtually zero evidence that Shon Coleman can play LT. Zero. It's not who has or has not been teaching him, it's his footwork and lack of agility that concern me. I'm sure hoping for the best but the talent to play both OT positions is far more rare than I think some fans would like to admit.

Good stuff ... agree with almost every word ... only 2 things I differ on with your O take ....

- I think TT will have much better #’s here and we will mask some of his negatives ... the thing thats going to hurt us is the inconsistent accuracy .... thats when he has his games that made Jills fans want to slit there throats ...

Its also a contract year for him ... that usually lights a fire under a players ass ...

- i disagree on the RB position ... u know i though Crow was ULB (Underachieving Lazy Bum) but i thought he was an average NFL RB ...

When healthy I think Hyde is above average ... IMO he’s an upgrade all by himself ...

I’m much higher than Chubb than u are ... but i’m not counting on him ...

I think a healthy Hyde is a damm good NFL RB .. i think Crow is an average NFL RB ...

Other than that ... spot on with your O break down IMO ...

Thanks for starting a football thread ...

in terms of TT .. I didn't watch him closely enough to nit-pick his strengths/weaknesses. I will say that my friend (a diehard Buffalo fan) told me:

"Taylor will be an upgrade for you guys big time. He will win games, but not important ones. He's highly inaccurate in the red zone and struggles to push the ball down the field. But, his legs are a strength. He's WAY better than Kizer."

I'm pretty much a carbon copy of Diam, I'll also add that I'm more optimistic at TE. I'm not worried at all about Devalve's route running and I don't think Njoku gave enough of a sample size to write his hands off yet. I know that Fells will greatly improve blocking from the unit and also be a valuable red zone target. I expect both of our young TE's to improve.

j/c:

I want to address a few other things in this post. Coaching, intangibles, and even a vague evaluation/prediction of this year's team.

Coaching: I think it is pretty strong. We have two very good offensive minds in Hue and Haley and even though I can't stand the dude, I recognize that Williams is a good DC. I do wish that we were still running Hue's offense because I think it is more creative than Haley's, but it is what it is. I think the best thing to do was for them to merge somehow, as I don't think their offenses are world's apart. Overall, I am good w/our coaching staff.

Intangibles:

--One of my biggest problems w/the previous regime's plan was that it is tremendously hard to overcome a losing culture. Some teams expect to win and others say "here we go again." Losing that many games is going to be very difficult to overcome. I think almost all of you [from what I have read] underestimate what losing so many games does to a player's--and team's--psyche. I do take some comfort in comments from people like Joe Thomas when he praised Hue for keeping the team believing and together. That could be huge. I'm still skeptical, though. And I think that this factor decreases our win total for this particular year.

--I think Dorsey and company did a good job of bringing in some well-established vets. I mentioned Kendricks played on the Super Bowl champs last year. That's huge! Guys will listen to him. I hope he is a good teacher/mentor kind of guy. Landry is a true pro. He will work hard and has a ton of pride in how he plays the game. That should rub off on many guys. Taylor has some flaws, but the guy has overcome some great odds to become a starter in this league and he did experience some success last year. We also brought in Hubbard from Pittsburgh and they sure know how to win. We brought in some vets from teams like the Pack, the Raiders, etc. We have done a very good job of adding experience to our young team. I think that is significant and it factors into my thinking that we win more games.

The QB situation could get dicey. If the team doesn't start off well, the fans/media will be calling for Baker. They might even do it before then. This could cause a divide in the team. I hope it doesn't happen, but I've seen this movie too many times. This is probably a negative.

Evaluation/Prediction:

Overall, I think this roster and the state of the franchise has improved significantly. I love the upgrades at WR and in the secondary. I worry about the offensive tackles and a bit about the defensive tackles. I think qb is still a problem area, although it is much improved. I think that it's going to be hard to overcome such epic losing, but I do like the vets that we brought in to help w/changing that culture.

Last time I checked, I saw the over/under for the Brown's win total was 5.5 games. I think that is about dead nuts on. I see this team winning 5 or 6 games. And if I had to really choose between the two, I'd say 5.

Good thread.

QB....I like this rating system for QB's. It's a QB rating based on 100. You can scroll over each category to understand what it means.

Taylor is a middle of the road QB. Maybe slightly higher...he was 14th last year. Based on what we have had for a long time, he should add 3-4 wins on his own.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/sort/qbpaa


RB's

I like Crow just fine. I think he and Hyde are about the same. Dukes numbers are probably going down because he was more or less our slot guy last year. Landry is going to take receptions from him. I think Chubb is a great addition. I think he can be really good, and better than any of the guys behind Crow and Duke last season. So it looks like a push except for one reason.....this isn't a Hue bash or anything of the such, just the way I see it...we are going to run more this season. The loss of Joe was big as you mentioned, so, make up for that loss by running more. Hue got stuck on Kizer heaving all over the yard. He gave up on the run if it didn't produce big results. Dorsey has brought in 2 more big powerful backs. We are going to run them with Haley now calling plays, thus, the backfield is improved.

WR.

Last year Corey Coleman was looked at as our stud. Today he is maybe the 3rd guy only if he steps up. Calloway is on his heels. We are way improved at this position group. Josh, Jarvis, and Calloway/Coleman are way better than Corey, Ricardo, and Higgins.

OL....

I agree, you don't lose a Joe Thomas and not feel the pinch, but all is not lost. We have a QB and back-up who can play on the run and create plays. I'd also say that with a new emphasis on running the ball, the loss of Joe won't hurt as much. Joe is a HOF player and had a complete game, but he was a pass blocker first. I am not saying he wasn't a good run blocker, but he wasn't a great run blocker so we can remain near the same in that department.

TE's

Like you said, we have some guys who can play, but it remains to be seen how well. To me there are two types of tight ends. The blocking type and the play maker down the seam type. Time will tell how good we can be, but we aren't bad if nothing changes. Sure, you want a Gronk or a Whitten in his prime, but not all that many TE's in history end up that good. It's a complimentary position. You either compliment the running game or the passing game. Some are like Ozzie who could catch and make plays but not block, or you have the blockers who are about anybody else to play the position. Not many players play the position like Mike Ditka who can do both.

I am not as worried about DT as you are.

Coley is largely the same type of player Shelton was, only younger and cheaper. (and maybe, better) I think that the team really likes him a lot, and that's why Shelton was moved. The kid has legs like tree trunks. He has a massive lower body, and fits well at the 1 tech.

I really like Larry Ogunjobi at the other DT spot. I think that the starting DL should be extremely good.

I know that you don't like Brantley, but I think that he really did seem to come on late last year. I also like Trenton Thompson, who we signed as an UDFA. I think that he could impress in camp and the pre-season. He had some medical, IIRC, but if he's healthy, he's a great pickup. He has talent. I think that we'll have a very good rotation there. I think they also also brought in Chris Smith as a DT, though he would be a smaller DT. Faulk and Ekuale are also interesting, at least early on.

LOL.............almost every reply I have received centers around nit-picking something I said. Did I really say I was very worried about the DTs? I thought I said I would be watching them closely and didn't offer any predictions? [shrug]

I think that it is more of an open conversation, and random thoughts are appearing... refreshing for a change.

I have no idea what to really expect, although on paper, we should win some games this year. I could not say that last year, I knew going into it was going to be bad, just not 0-16 bad.

I think Williams will put a more competitive defense on the field, they may even be good. No more Peppers playing 40 years deep. I hope Garrett is healthy, and not an IR candidate.

Offensively there is a lot to like. Haley is probably the biggest off season addition.

I want to see some pre-season, but remember, last year we were 4-0 and you see how that turned out.

That's all it was. I just made a comment about a position group I like.

Good thread. Talking football is refreshing. Unfortunately it lacks the drama of personal attacks that really make a thread interesting to read, but I guess you can't have everything. lol

In response to your initial post...

QB: Even with his inconsistencies with accuracy and tendencies to take sacks, the anticipated lack of red zone interceptions alone should allow TT to provide a large improvement over the QB position of last year. Hopefully he can keep Baker off the field long enough for the rest of the offensive players to get comfortable in the new system.

RB: While Crow did break the occasional run for huge gains, what he lacked was the ability to move the chains with any consistency. He had too many runs of very short yardage which I think is the reason Hue didn't run the ball as much as many fans wanted. I think Hue figured that if his QB was going to be facing 3rd and long so often he may as well throw the ball more to at least give him more chances to make something positive out of it, (didn't work). Both Hyde and Chubb are hard-nosed, between the tackles types and that could improve the running game by giving the QB a fair chance.

WR: It's hard for me to know what to expect from this group because it takes two to tango so even with the much improved talent at the position the QB is still responsible to take advantage of that. If TT is up to the task by getting the ball out quicker and seeing the field better so he doesn't bail out of the pocket too often this could be a real team strength. Put Aaron Rogers at QB and this WR group could excel like many expect them to do. TT is the linchpin here.

TE: I think all we need is for this group to play up to their potential and they could be a strength as well.

OL: As has been said, both tackle spots are the key here. If they can hold up to to the task we can be strong up the middle while being average overall. Being strong up the middle, and less so at the tackle spots, makes me think this was a consideration in picking up Hyde and drafting Chubb.

I'll respond to each of your posts individually so as to maintain the brevity of my responses.

I was merely pointing out why I think we are better at RB. Crow had 206 carries last year or which 4 went for over 20 yards, and only 7 total of more than 15 yards. I liked Crow but he did have a lot of VERY short runs, leaving us in 2nd and long, and 3rd and long that I think we will avoid this year.

The Defense...

DL: Sheldon was/is a block eater and I think Dorsey/GW wanted more attack out of the tackle spots. His trade left the door open for the next guy to get more reps.

DEs: To quote you, "It will be huge for us if we keep Myles and Ogbah healthy all year. They are both good players and Myles has a chance to be special. Our depth is adequate. I like this unit."

LBs: Adding Kendricks was a good move. He brings a lot to the table in experience and talent. The only problem I find is getting him the reps he deserves.

CBs: A lot of good talent added. Should be solid improvement but I see the real improvement showing up next year. With Ward being a rookie and the group as a whole tripping over their own feet getting used to GWs system, I think it will take a while to gel as a unit in the manner many fans expect them to do right out of the gate.

S: Having a real FS is a plus. Him not playing the position for three years is a challenge. Peppers will benefit being moved to SS. At the same time he faces a real challenge competing with Kindred.


Last season Gregg Williams was forced to make concessions to his overall defensive scheme. At no point during the year was he able to actually run his defense, always compromising for the lack of talent in the backfield. In addition, Garrett, Ogbah and Collins spent no more than 5 minutes with the three of them on the field together all season. This year he should have the guns to run his own defense as he wants it.

The defense should improve a lot, but I believe it will take some time for the players to adjust and gel before it really pays off.

"I want to address a few other things in this post. Coaching, intangibles, and even a vague evaluation/prediction of this year's team."

Me too...

Coaching: I expect that Haley respects Hue as a very good offensive mind and I think/hope they work closely together on game plans and overall scheme. I'm sure there are certain aspects of their scheme that the other guy likes as well. Haley will benefit greatly having an offensive mind like Jackson to bounce ideas off of.

Williams is a know-it-all-blow-hard, but he brings a toughness that I think his players buy into. I also think he's proven himself a very good DC. Like anyone else he just needs something to work with.


On overcoming the losing culture: For the most part with the previous regimes nothing really changed enough to have any major impact in the locker room. Coaches and their staffs changed and a few players changed but as is typical new coaches lose more than they win. It's hard to change the losing culture when you're always losing.

What is different this upcoming season is the monumental changes. If you're a player who returns to this roster you'd be hard-pressed to not notice the improvement of talent regarding your teammates. A winning QB, (plus a 1st round pick in the wings), a new defensive backfield, new running backs, new WR group and maybe topping off the list is that there is no regime change! No group of new coaches to get used to as you learn their ways as different from that last group. I think it would be less likely that any of the players would form a "here we go again" mentality because of all the new, positive changes that were made coupled with the consistency in your coaches.

This took some serious doing to get to this point - stripping the roster, letting go of some good talent, building up the cap money and playing at a disadvantage while doing so. It's not something every team can or would be willing to do. But it's been done here in Cleveland and this season everybody reaps the benefits, including the players who have been here. They are not only witnessing "heading in the right direction" but actually being in the advanced stage of that right direction at the snap of a finger like a magician suddenly producing a bouquet of flowers seemingly out of thin air. It's like someone said, "You can't change it all in one off-season", and Dorsey said, "Here, hold my beer."

There will always be some doubts in the player's minds. We know that because we have them too. But if a culture were ever to change quickly this might be one of them. As I said earlier, it's hard to change when you're always losing, so there will have to be some winning along the way to make it complete. Here's hoping for that.


No predictions. I've always been wrong at that. I will say that I expect the team to be much improved which will give them a fighting chance at a better record.

funny what happens when you bring in GM with a proven track record of building a playoff team how much a roster changes.
i mean last year all we heard was how dangerous a group the WRs were gonna be i.e Britt Coleman Louis and how many blind fans believed in Sashi and how this team was a 8 win team and possible playoff team.

when i look at this roster that Dorsey has put together i see a infusion of talent that can BEAT THE GUY LINING UP.ACROSS FROM.HIM.
lets be real. last years roster was border line expansion.
when you go 0 and 16 that means when you line up 11 Browns on the field at least 1 to 3 are getting beat by their man more than 40% of the game
Dorsey wanted players that could win matchups plain and simple.
Dorsey brought in a OC whos mantra is getting his offensive talent in place to win matchups
the Browns should win 6 games this year but the other 10 will.be decided on 4th q. playmakers
the truth is now their is better depth and speed across the roster
the offense actually has proven playmakers in starting roles
defensively their guys that can make a error yet are fast enough to correct that error
teams will.have to play with less margin of error to beat the Browns this year

I'll apologize. I was irritated by another poster on a couple of threads. I'm sorry I snapped at you.

I will say that I like how bonefish and ddubia approached this topic. Good analysis w/out concentrating on a disagreement.

By the lack of replies on this thread, I can see that this type of conversation isn't very popular on this board. LOL

Let's go bash, Hue. Or Landry.

Or...

It's near the end of the dead-zone of NFL activity and everything we've seen this calendar year has already been reviewed, analyzed, projected, studied, etc. to the nth degree.

What’d I do to irrate u this time ... ...

Speaking for me ... i would have just said almost verbatim what u said about the O ... hence I could only add where U and I see things a little different ...

As for the D ...

I don’t know enough about the interior DL to talk “intelligently” about them ... so i won’t try ...

DE’s ... u summed up my thoughts perfectly ... i’d Be more rah rah about it and say MG has a shot to be really really special and i think Ogbah is very underrated and could be very good ... love how he’s developing .... not sure that ADDED anything too what u said ...

And i agree with what u said about the rest of the D ... love the Kendricks addition ... am interested to see how it plays out ... who is in on what packages and how many snaps they get ... I HAVE NO CLUE ...

U summed up the DB’s like u were replying for me ...

I haven’t read the intangibles yet ... will get to that later today ... i also want to talk about Dorsey and how i think he did ...

U just ignited the thread ... not sure who in your “posse” will come and crash through the door u opened with your last line in your reply to Y-Town ... but they will ... you’ll “defend” yourself and the thread will be ignited in exactly the way u didn’t want it too ...

I’ll be back to talk football in a bit ...

Of our Special teams as nobody has discussed them yet. Kicker, punter, long snapper?

Good post. It's okay to disagree. Like I said, I was wrong to snap at YTown. I'll say it again.........I was wrong.

Looking forward to hearing your takes on the intangibles and coaching. This is probably where you and I will differ more than we have thus far.

Oh...almost forgot. One of the posse just made an appearance. I'm going to ignore him, though.

Good point, bro.

Special Teams:

Punter: I was surprised we brought in another punter this year. I think Colquitt did a very nice job for the Browns. I think he is a good punter and remember being impressed many times last year.

Place kicker: Dude started off horrible, but he's young and it often takes kickers some time to adjust in the NFL. This will be a big year for him.

Long snapper: I can't remember his name. That's a good thing.

Returners: Dayes was okay when returning kicks. Not sure he'll make the team this year. I have never liked Peppers as a player, but I always thought he was a dynamic returner. I was incredibly surprised that he looked so "ordinary" as a punt returner last year. I'm hoping he flashes more this year.

Coverage teams: We have a new ST coach, but I don't thinkt he last dude was the problem. I think that Sashi didn't value that part of the team and he got rid of a lot of guys who were very good on special teams. Thus, we had guys like Ricardo Louis out there and we missed a lot of tackles. I'm guessing that this unit should improve a bit.

Wait...I thought it was ok to disagree. Sometimes people read the opinions of others on a message board and don't feel the need to add anything...it's not a silent attack on the thread or the OP.

It's ironic that you would choose to ignore an actual response in the thread while at the same time bemoaning the lack of responses in the thread.

lmao. That's a classic quote. What a thankless job though.

Haters.

Accepted. No harm, no foul.