DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs News: After the Draft

DeRozan doesn't sound happy. Here is another link to the story.

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/07/18/re...s-kawhi-leonard

Here is a tweet from Woj:

Not sure why the Spurs made that trade. They aren't getting a whole lot back and also lose Danny Green in the deal. A 2019 Toronto draft pick is likely going to be in the late 20's. So they got a slow center and DeMar DeRozen for Kawhi AND Danny Green?? Do they like DeMar that much? It seems like even the Cavs could of beat that offer.

its that or lose Leonard for nothing next year. Good trade for toronto.. Toronto/Boston ECF

I think the trade is tough to evaluate. I read where Kawhii didn't want to play in Toronto and he can leave as FA next year.

I think both players are not happy w/this trade.

Pop sticks it to kawhi and gets derozan

neither player is happy

Interesting trade that has a lot of dynamics, especially with Kawhi-- one year left on his deal, wouldn't play last year even after being cleared by team doctors, and all that.

Spurs were in a tough spot, doubt they're happy with this, as it is a making the best out of a bad situation kind of thing.

No one was offering much for Kawhi. DeRozan is a known entity that will get buckets. Zach Lowe has said that Danny Green was not very happy in San Antonio anymore. Now the Spurs get to be competitive again in 2018-19 and the Raptors will rebuild if Kawhi leaves.

All this is true, but there's one detail that has to be acknowledged: Kawhi is easily the best player in this trade. When on the court, he's one of the best players in the league and can be the best player on a championship team. Players like that are hard to come by.

That said, there were major risks with Kawhi-- a combination of injury/refusal to play and leaving at the end of the season-- that it's easy to see why the Spurs didn't get the kind of offer that you'd expect from a player of Kawhi's caliber.

I would have to imagine that one of the last places Kawhi wanted to go is Toronto. I think that Pops got the best deal available, while also turning the screws on Kawhi, a little more than a bit.

Good take. If Kawhi wasn't happy in San Antonio, it's hard to see how he'll be happy in Toronto.

I think Derozan will eventually chill and actually enjoy being in SA. More than Leonard in toronto

Not sure why DeRozen is so mad. He’s now a Spur, which is a lot better than being a Raptor. I don’t think that’s just my opinion, I’d bet most would agree.

Plus, the Raptors had to do something different. Boston and Philly have shot past them in the East with DeRozen. They were 2nd round fodder at best. With Leonard, that might be different (assuming he plays). And if it doesn’t work and Leonard leaves, they can start a full rebuild.

I see what the Raptors are trying to do. As for the Spurs, they had to make this move. Get him out of town and let him be someone else’s problem.

Yeah, I get the trade from Toronto's perspective. They were almost in "rebuild" mode after this last playoffs. They fired Casey, so it was either go all-in or start the rebuild. Trading DeRozen gets a large contract off the books, and replacing him with Kawhi is a huge upgrade. So either they run the table, make the Finals, and convince Kawhi that he'll have a much easier time in the East than the West, or they start the rebuild they wanted to anyway, and with DeRozen's number off the cap.

For San Antonio, I'm not sure I get it. They get a borderline All-Star (in the East) who is not very good from range and disappears in the plaoffs, a lumbering center that's nearly obsolete in today's NBA game, and a draft pick in the late 20's. I guess they were really desperate to unload Kawhi and Danny Green and say they got "something" out of it?

There is a lot of talk that San Antonio won this trade. I'm having a hard time trying to find a winner.

How? Unless you are vastly overrating DeRozen? This seems like a trade where nobody comes out a winner.

I mean technically, couldn't they of traded the Cavs for Tristan Thompson and JR Smith and arguably wind up with a better package? Both deals would roughly cost the Spurs $30M a year for the next few years. JR's is technically an expiring deal after this year so you could get out of that if you really wanted. TT is way more athletic and NBA relevant than Jakob Poeltl. And JR is a much better three-point shooter than DeRozen.

I don't think either team won the trade, either. I was just mentioning what some of the talking heads were saying.

I'd definitely give the edge to the Raptors... Leonard AND Green. DeRozen had to go. Volume shooter than continually comes up short when it matters the most. Even if Leonard says bye-bye, they dump a tremendous amount of salary for the 2019 free agent class. The writing was on the wall, they just dotted some i's and crossed some t's today.

DeRozan is much, much better than Smith. It’s not even close.

Is here any chance this was a trade to get DeRozan off the books and now the Raptors flip Kawhi to some other team and accept much less than the Spurs would have?

Ah.. the kiss of death.

I wasn't trying to say Smith was better. But DeRozen makes $27M a year for the next three years. People complain about the JR Smith contract, but he makes nearly half that and after next year the deal is non-guaranteed.

DeRozen is a SG that shoots threes at a career average of 29%, he plays bad defense, and he disappears in the playoffs. Yes DD is really gifted at creating his own shot, but he's not at Kyrie or James Harden's level. For the money's worth, a combination of TT + Smith almost seems to be even with what you get out of DeRozen.

Watch the Raptors trade him to LA now.

Hmmm. I believe the biggest reason the traded DD was to dump salary, so that's a possibility. What would LA be willing to part with when they know he'll sign there next year? I guess it would buy them a deeper playoff run. Interesting.

maybe it's a conspiracy by the NBA to have Toronto trade Kawhi to LA ... for Lonzo Ball

The thing with LA though is that they would have to unload substantial salary (again) to fit him under the salary cap at a max deal. If the Lakers want to avoid having to renounce the rights to Ball or Ingram next off-season, and get the ball rolling on a James/Leonard super-team, it might be in their interest to get something done sooner.

That's basically what I meant. If the Raptors want to rebuild, then the low end of what the Lakers were offering might not be that bad.

I don't think this will happen, just thinking out loud.

It's a good thought though, especially if Leonard refuses to play in Toronto. Sure, that might reduce their leverage, but they've already shed Derozen's contract, so anything they get back in terms of young talent might be a win.

If I'm the Lakers or the Clippers, I'm on the phone with the Raptors GM. They may not be asking as much as the Spurs were.

Yes. If so, they'll have to wait a couple of months to do it. Or they could flip him midseason to a team in the playoff run. LIke the Cavs might do with Kevin Love.

So must be Green as potential trade bait then? I mean what might he give you in a trade situation straight up or three way? I can't imagine keeping Kawhi if he is unhappy. Can't see Green commanding that level of attention.

I don't think there is a restriction on trading players that have recently been traded. If they were to sign a new contract, the team would have to wait 3 months. I could be wrong though.

He's just not built like the current bunch of superstars. I think he was trying to retire a Raptor. Toronto's never really had a franchise player like that, and I think he wanted to be the first to do it. Now he's just another great guard that the Raptors had, no different than T-Mac or Vince.

The NBA title has always been near impossible to come by for the majority of the teams throughout the history of the NBA. As a result, personal brands and mythologies grew between people who never had a ring. Guys didn't have to deliver a championship in their city to be a legend. I know Spurs fans who swear George Gervin is still the best Spurs player. My Dad loves The Big O, but never followed him when he went to Milwaukee. DeMar is missing that chance in Toronto. He now has a chance to become an NBA champion though. And I'm only saying that because the Spurs have been my 2nd favorite team for forever. They make these LeBron-less years a lot more bearable. My heart goes out to all you real fans who only like the Cavs. I hope all of you guys can try to root for individual players. Russ is very easy to root for imo.

They could make millions with a PPV hidden camera to catch Lavar's reaction!

I think DeRozan is a better player than you are giving him credit for. Listing only his 3 pt. shooting percentage does not tell the entire story.

I also think SA did okay for themselves because everyone knew that Kawhi wasn't going to play in SA again. They lost a lot of their bargaining power because of that. I think they did okay given the circumstances.

Toronto would be better off to flip Kawhi to the Lakers.

Ask for Hart and Ingram right now.

To be the middle man, you'd acquire two young, good players and you rid yourself of Derozan's contract.

jc

Why can't the Raptors extend Leonard after trading for him? Ok, those are the rules-- what I'm asking, is why is that a rule? Is it one of those archaic rules that just is or is there a legitimate reason for it?

It only seems reasonable that if a team wants to make a big trade for a superstar, they should be able to extend him right away. It's good for the team that trades for the player (because they don't risk losing the player after 1 season, and the team can plan accordingly for the next several years) and it's good for the team that traded the player (because they can get more value in a trade). It wouldn't be so good for budding super teams and/or destination cities that can realistically attract stars in free agency.

Meh.. I guess I answered my own question.

Where are you reading that they can't extend him? They have the rights to him, and have first dibs at giving him a bigger contract. He has to want to sign it though.

I always thought a trade/sign was kind of standard? hmm