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Observations after one week

By Pat McManamon

Published on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007
1) After one week of watching the Browns in training camp, I have this observation: They've not given any indication the preseason predictions will be wrong. Sorry folks, but it is what it is.

2) In the first days of camp, too much of the Browns' news was about guys off the field. Ryan Tucker's suspension. LeCharles Bentley coming back. Gary Baxter coming back. Brady Quinn not in camp. Not that those aren't good stories, especially the comebacks. But you'd hope some excitement would be generated on the field. Now, this may be the media's fault -- (WHO wrote that?) -- for focusing on these stories, but in my putrid little career as an NFL-team beat writer, I've noticed a peculiar fact: If a guy does something on the field, even if it's during training camp, the media will write about it. Good things will not be ignored. There just have not been a lot jump out.

3) Tucker's suspension is a curious affair. He stood up like a man and said he took a banned substance, and he apologized. This is a good thing. But then Tucker explained that he took what he did because the medication he was using to fight mental illness messed up his (warning: complex scientific term coming) innards. He said it affected his thyroid and it reduced his testosterone levels, so he took something to bring the level back up. Tucker didn't quibble about the suspension, but did say he did not take something to gain an edge in playing the game. Tucker is a straight-shooter, one of the guys on the team who will look you in the eye and tell the truth. So I believe him, and I believe his circumstances are a little different from a guy juicing to get to 756 home runs.

4) That being said, there are no exceptions to the league policy. You get caught, you get caught. As the policy reads: Players are responsible for what is in their body. Tucker didn't even argue with that point, saying if the league made an exception for one they'd have 200 guys knocking at the door. So he said the best thing is to admit his mistake, say he's sorry and get past it. This is why I've always liked Tucker. He does not feel that there is anything to fear from the truth.

5) Me, I think I've heard more about testosterone levels in the past week than I've ever cared to.

6) This Browns team is more dependent on the quarterbacks than ever. That's because some of the other pieces just might be in place. Jamal Lewis has been one of the better players in camp; the line should be improved; Kellen Winslow looks good. And Braylon Edwards ... well he has promised he'll be better this season. So these guys just need someone who can get the ball to them and not give the ball to the other team. If the quarterbacks protect the ball and make some throws ... well, good things might happen. Thing is, we need to actually see the quarterbacks do that in some games (yes, even practice games) to have faith.

7) I've been down on the quarterbacks, but the past few days Charlie Frye has started to step forward. It started with an afternoon practice last week, which followed a bad morning practice. Frye threw the ball down the field, made good throws and (gasp) completed throws. He followed that with decent practices this week. Now, he hasn't been Peyton Manning, but he has done a little more to separate himself. Derek Anderson has not followed up on what he did in the spring. At that point everyone ` me included ` thought he was taking the job. Hasn't happened in camp. Anderson has had the ball slip out of his hands at least twice while trying to throw, has thrown some bad interceptions and has not looked confident. It's a big limb to be on, but perhaps I see a trend here where Frye earns the job in camp and opens the season as the starter.

8) Every year there's some weird occurrence with the Browns, and this year's happened at the stadium during the Kenny Chesney concert. (Twas quite a show, by the way, with five headlining acts). Some pipe or valve or toilet problem led to a huge backflow of water mixed with sewage that flooded the service level and part of the lower deck. Most unpleasant to be in the bathroom and have smelly water dripping down from pipes overhead. The locker rooms had 5 or 6 inches of water, and every locker had to be rebuilt and new carpet installed. Then came a flash flood during a rainstorm downtown last week. But in this case the locker rooms were saved by sandbags (yep, sandbags). Then came another deluge that hit as I write this, forcing folks to take long, wet routes downtown. Sometime this week the Browns will imitate the last M*A*S*H show and have a grand flush, with some 300 folks each flushing a toilet at the same time to make sure the plumbing system does indeed handle the ... um ... flow. As of this writing, the Browns are looking for flushers. No experience required. And I wonder: Does this stuff happen anywhere else in the world? Zimbabwe or Algeria perhaps?

9) Eric Wright is getting a lot of love at cornerback, but the guy who has been impressive has been Daven Holly. This guy seems to find the ball, and is playing with a lot of confidence. Just my opinion, but Holly looks like he might be growing into a decent nickel back.

10) LeCharles Bentley didn't throw cold water on his comeback, but he didn't' sound near as optimistic as Gary Baxter does about his. Bentley said if it works, it works, and if it doesn't he'll ‘‘take my (stuff) and go home.’’ Said his knee is about 70 percent. I would never count Bentley out, but getting that last 30 percent back ` or 25 percent or whatever percent he needs to play safely and effectively ` will be a challenging climb. ... By the way, with Eric Steinbach injured and Tucker suspended, the offensive line suddenly looks a little shaky.

11) It would be completely remiss and un-First and 10-like to allow Quinn's holdout to go unnoticed. So here are two words about my feelings related to the long inability of two sides to get together and get this guy into camp: Flabbergasted and flummoxed. Here are two words to describe Quinn's actions in not getting into camp. Idiotic and ridiculous. Here are two words about how this First and 11 item started. Boring and mundane. Cleveland fans are loyal, and they'll support Quinn. But it's hard to imagine much more of a turnoff to working-class folks, to folks in an area where the economy isn't exactly raging, to folks who treasure loyalty and dedication, than some fair-haired kid out of Golden Dome-land standing up a team for a couple weeks. Yes, Quinn had the right to do what he wished. It is a free country, after all, which gives everyone the right to be stupid. (I've proven this fact countless times in this newsletter). But it all really seems pretty silly. Which is probably the best word to describe this. It just all seemed silly, didn't it?

web-a-licious

#2 - Maybe in years past, but it seems all media is now looking for the money line, and training camp doesn't provide those unless it's a negative(injury, fight, etc).
Maybe if we had gotten Peyton Manning, but even then, that would run for day 1, then it would be back to the the Tucker, Bentley, Baxter stories, that is what the media is looking to print.

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7) I've been down on the quarterbacks, but the past few days Charlie Frye has started to step forward. It started with an afternoon practice last week, which followed a bad morning practice. Frye threw the ball down the field, made good throws and (gasp) completed throws. He followed that with decent practices this week. Now, he hasn't been Peyton Manning, but he has done a little more to separate himself. Derek Anderson has not followed up on what he did in the spring. At that point everyone ` me included ` thought he was taking the job. Hasn't happened in camp.

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That's because you and other writers are clueless. You look at mimi camp and OTAs and think they actually mean something. Hopefully Quinn will also be better than what you guys thought.

Wait, so running plays with no pads on, no contact and just generally doing drills doesn't give us an exact picture of how the QBs will succeed? Whod'a thunk it?

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1) After one week of watching the Browns in training camp, I have this observation: They've not given any indication the preseason predictions will be wrong. Sorry folks, but it is what it is.

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After reading many of his articles, I have this observation: Pat's a moron. Sorry folks, but it is what it is.

I enjoy his writing, even if I don't always agree with whathe says.

if nothing else, his sense of humor is pretty good

Just a few comments:

On item number 2: Pat, you haven't been paying attention. Lots of good stuff has be written about Joe Thomas, Eric Wright, Kellen Winslow, some nice things about Braylon Edwards, Joshua Cribbs and a very nice article about Jamal Lewis and his new look and attitude and desire.

Some of the fans (NOT MEDIA TYPES) that have visited Camp in the last couple of weeks (me included) have come back to the two major boards (here and on the Browns site) and discussed what they saw.

In a nutshell there has been plenty written by both pros and fans...

On Item number 3: Pat, in Item number 2 you talk about not good stuff and guess what, in #3 you tell us that Tucks a straight shooter and a good guy (paraphrasing)

On Item number 6: Pat Pat Pat,,, tsk tsk tsk,, again, you say not enough good stories are out there, then you talk about Jamal Lewis being one of them,,,,, Geez

On Item number 7: PAT, will you please wake the heck up,,, Number 2 says there isn't enough good stuff,,,, PAT, the first sentence of number 7 is telling how you feel CHarlie Frye is taking a step forward,,,, YIKES

PAT,,, NUMBER 9,,, Same dang thing,,, YIKES man




Just having fun.., I'm bored waiting for the wife to get home so we can eat

Am I the only one who realizes this was published on July 31st?

But we're just reading it now... so through relativity, it is really happening right no.....

sorry, wrong thread.

I'm gonna wish I could find the link to whoever wrote this, but the quote was something like "...not even camera men were safe from Quinn's throws."

At least the guy is light hearted about it. It's his first practice.

I believe someone needs to show Pat a hole in the ground and then show him where his arse is, because I don't think he knows the difference.

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If you think that mini camp and OTAs don't mean anything when you have 2 players who are each loaded with questions about their abilities competing for a starting job ...... then you're nuts.

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I think not. Anderson has had a reputation since college of being inconsistant in game situations. Saying he had a leg up or anything close to that because of a few practices in shorts makes no sense. Sure it may show who understands things better at that time but how long did they actually have to absorb it? Mini camp is the first time they actually know what the changes are going to be and just because someone gets it quicker doesn't mean the others won't by training camp. Frye had three or four different systems in college alone and was able to adapt by the start of each season. The fact is the only people that I heard thought Anderson was ahead was the reporters who were at a few practices to begin with. I have not heard anyone with the Browns state that Anderson was ahead, including leaked reports.

I'm not saying that OTAs and mini camps aren't important, but to think you can pick a starter from them I think you are the crazy one.

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Let me ask you a question. Based on the fact that we have 2 QBs, and as many questions about one as the other, all things being seen as even, which guy would you pick ... and why?

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The guy holding out.

I wouldn't pick either one of them yet. Reports are that Frye is pulling out ahead but that is by these sportswriters also. Since we really can't go by their whole body of work as pros (not enough IMO for Frye and nothing for Anderson) my personal opinion is from what they have done in college as well. Anderson played in the Pac Ten and put up huge numbers. Along with that he was wildly inaccurate and turnover prone. The numbers are huge, 57 picks and 50% comp. ratings (his best was as a senior at 55% I believe). Stats usually can't stand alone but in this case I believe they can. They are so bad I can't see them being explained away.

Frye did play inferior comp. for the most part but if I remeber correctly he did play well against good programs when he played them. His skill set is not even close to Anderson's but it is good enough to lead this team. He without a doubt needs to improve greatly in multiple areas to remain a starting QB in this league. If that wasn't the case Anderson would have never been considered for the starting job.

Factoring in from what I've seen, heard and personal bias I would say Frye. After seening them in live action could change my mind completely.

I do have a question for you. Correct me if you see the facts as I state them differently.

Quinn was told the night before that we would not be drafting him.

QB wasn't the most vital need to draft.

We only went after him once he dropped because we thought we could steal a franchise QB.

If those are true, do you think Savage thought one of our two QBs could have led this team this year?

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I do have a question for you. Correct me if you see the facts as I state them differently.

Quinn was told the night before that we would not be drafting him.

QB wasn't the most vital need to draft.

We only went after him once he dropped because we thought we could steal a franchise QB.

If those are true, do you think Savage thought one of our two QBs could have led this team this year?

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QB wasn't seen as the most vital need ...... because we finally decided to draft a LT. We had already settled on Thomas ...... so of course Savage made statements sure to become public swearing that Frye and/or Anderson were "good enough" to win with. Would you expect Savage to make a statement like "We finally decided to address the offensive line in the 1st round, knowing full well that we have crap at the QB position. We figured that this way we would have a foundation piece in line, and he would be developing ahead of us selecting a QB #1 overall next year ... which will happen because our current QB corps is crap, utter crap, and complete crap, and with this crap we'll be hard pressed to duplicate last season's pathetic record. Hopefully the fans will see that we truly are building a foundation, and once I can Romeo (after he loses a pre-determined number of games, expected to coincide with the bye week) I can look forward to next season, and bringing in the franchise QB to go with the franchise LT and new franchise Head Coach."? Do you think that Savage might have been selling the pick of Thomas to the fans just a little? (not that most fans needed much of a sales job)

Would Savage have given up 2 #1s for a QB if he didn't feel it was a glaring need? Actions speak much louder than words ..... especially where the draft is concerned.

Pdawg...good points.

If I had to choose between Frye and Anderson, I would pick Frye for the following reasons:

--I like guys who are what people call "gamers". That doesn't make them the best, but it means they will always give 110%. That is exactly what we've seen from Frye all the time...110%...EVEN when the chips are down. If you had to go to war with one of these two guys, who do you want in the foxhole with you?

--Always giving 110% speaks volumes about character and work ethic. I want high character guys leading this team. Now, I'm not saying DA isn't a high character guy, but I believe it to be true with Frye based on his actions up to this point. In the character department, he is less of an unknown to me.

--He wants to be here and play for his hometown Browns. That's extra motivation for him to be the best player he can be.

--He did do some good things last year. After the first four games of the season, he even had some of the more harsh critics on this board pulling for him. Good first game, good second game, good game against the Raiders...he was playing fairly decent until the team started falling apart.

--He was a decent college qb compared to Anderson...as Pdawg has pointed out. There is a trend there, and I think the trend is more positive in Frye's favor than Anderson's based on their college careers.

--This is just pure speculation, but I just think that Frye is a better overall leader than Anderson especially when the chips are down. DA strikes me as a guy you would want to be around when everything is hunky-dory, but when things start falling apart, he'll unravel. Again, I don't know that to be true...just a feeling. Whereas with Frye, this guy is always going to be scratching and clawing. That "gamer" mentality again.

--I would rather know what we are going to get week in and week out. With DA, I just don't know if we are going to get the KC DA or the 4 interception DA from week to week. I feel more comfortable knowing what we will get with Frye...not that it will be that much better, if at all, but at least I know what to expect.

In summary, give me the less skill set but with a "no surrender" attitude. I see Frye overall as a 'tweener' - a guy not good enough to start for every team, but maybe a little better than a backup. I see DA as a backup, a guy who can come in in spot duty and perform well, but can't - and probably doesn't want to - put a team on his shoulders.

I really feel like if DA wins the starting job, we will be sorry. For me, personally, there will be a black cloud hanging over the start of the season if DA wins the starting job.

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Would Savage have given up 2 #1s for a QB if he didn't feel it was a glaring need? Actions speak much louder than words ..... especially where the draft is concerned.

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By calling Quinn before the draft he already decided he wasn't drafting Quinn even if Thomas was gone. I believe that Peterson was actually next on the board from what has been posted.(someone please correct me if I'm wrong). There is an old saying that has been repeated on here that you never pass on a franchise QB. I guess Savage didn't agree but wasn't going to let the oppurtunity slip by him twice.

I didn't like what he did because...

1. I don't think we are in position to give up draft picks
2. If Frye bombed we would be in position to get a QB next year.

Things I didn't consider...

1. Frye would be good enough to get us wins and move back in the draft but not good enough to lead us anywhere, ever.
2. Frye is by far better than any of next years QBs.
3. I don't know crap and Savage does.

I don't usually get on here and say things in absolutes because I can see both sides of an arguement and I don't always pretend I know more than others. In other words, I'm wishy washy.

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Why not, Savage has been here for 4 years

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When you get your facts straight, come on back.

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Neither guy wrapped up a job in those training sessions .... but as one old coach said ... "I can only go by what I see".

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He could ask Mensa for some stats. I'm sure that would clear things up for him.

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I don't think Savage see's it as giving up a pick... He just used next years 1st round, to get a 1st round pick this year...

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Then what happened to that 2nd round pick..........

We gave up more than people say because next-year's first round pick could be a top 10 and our 2nd round pick this year was the third pick of the 2nd round.

Savage better have had Quinn in his Top 5-10 Picks. I still question whether Lerner might have had a major factor in the trade up to get Brady Quinn. My guess is Savage's board probably went 1) JeMarcus Russell (He even stated we made an offer to trade up), 2) Joe Thomas, 3) Calvin Johnson, 4) Adrian Peterson............So Quinn probably was number 5 or higher (IMO)

Question for all those people who think we gave up too much because 'we need the picks':

Do you believe this roster minus Quinn has a qb on it that we can win a championship with?

If the answer is 'no', then how you can question the move?

There is NO guarantee we would have been in a position to get a qb in next year's draft. NONE.

That's not too hard to understand, is it?

Savage saw an opportunity and he acted. Pretty ballsy move but also a much needed one, IMO.

Good Lord.

AP? The glass man?
Pulease.................................

What if the answer is yes

But what if savage is wrong?