DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon

Why did you have to bring my name in it.

I have never once said he failed another drug test. I have never once said he was going to be suspended.

I do think Sheft is a good reporter. But, did you read his reports? He didn't name his sources when he was talking about the "anxiety" angle.

Do you think that a psychiatrist gave Sheft that news? Or, is it more likely that that "source" was a member of Gordon's team?

We just don't know.

I actually think the guys who are defending Josh are the one's who are doing more speculating. The Hard Knocks stuff. The anxiety angle. He's clean. He's working his ass off. And you say this is part of the plan, yet everyone was surprised and didn't know anything about it. That's odd.

We don't know if any of that is true.

And please don't lump me in w/guys who are saying he's guilty. I NEVER said that.

I have simply said that him missing TC is not good. I have said that he has lied in the past. I have said he has missed more games than he has played. I have said that he has had addiction problems for a long time. None of that is speculative.

And w/all of that said...........I would not cut him. He may very well be having anxiety issues. He may very well come back.

But please, don't rip my ass for stating his past isn't relevant here.

In the past you have went to the defense of Schefter when anybody would question his reporting. I used your name because I remember you doing this to me a few years back over something I can't remember now. Anyway, it is not an attack on you, I was just wondering why in the past, you took his word from "sources", but not in this case.

I promise I am not trying to be snarky, but I am not questioning Sheft. He said he had sources and I believe him.

However, the sources were not named.

Once again, was the source a psychiatrist? A doctor? A therapist? A drug counselor? Those would be sources who I would believe.

Were they members of the NFL? The Browns? Those sources are guys I would say were legit, but might not be totally forthcoming.

Were the sources members of Josh's camp or Josh himself? I would be more hesitant to believe the claims of those sources.

My skepticism isn't w/Sheft. It is w/who the sources are. We don't know who they were.

Is that clear?

Yeah, but it has been said by the team also. That's why I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

For the record, I am always skeptical of Shefter. And in the past have questioned his reporting.

Honestly, I can't figure the whole thing out myself. I don't actually believe anything being reported, but I like to take people for their word, even though that is not always the best thing to do.

I guess we all just have to wait and see.

I am not asking you to agree w/me. I was simply answering your question. And earlier, I was trying to clarify my position.

I get you. It is a confusing situation with a confusing character in the center of it all

I am of the camp that thinks Josh is simply staying away from the Hard Knocks drama. He is a self identified recovering addict and that show is going to do nothing more than question him over and over again and bring in potential temptation. When you are a recovering addict, the goal is to resist and avoid temptation.

I have no sources, no inside information, but if I was his coach or agent I would absolutely tell him to avoid that drama at all costs. Train on your own, come back once the show is done recording. Just my 2 cents.

I respect your opinion, but I really doubt [given the history of Hard Knocks] that they would pursue that angle.

The NFl requires teams to give an injury report by mid week ish of a regular season game week.
I know there's not a game this week, but can anyone say if The Browns had a regular season game this week if Josh Gordon would be
Active,
probable
doubtful
inactive,
ineligible
failed to report
or other.

And that's what is unclear, BUT! The Browns don't have a regular season game scheduled this week, (6 weeks away), so being unclear on the subject is "fine".
Not fun to hear but perfectly within the rules. So.

Go Browns!

I am speculating but my theory is Gordon was called in for a drug test and suddenly had anxiety.

He gets like 2 tests a week...lol

I think if dirty we would have heard some official stuff from NY.

Now I think all this wait and see stuff from NY is because he place himself in rehab again.

And honestly I ASSume that, I don't know for a fact that he is back n rehab to get his Mental status straight...???

So no news yet I see or don't see I should say.

Loads of speculation from many - Good and bad.

I'm with the few who really could care less. Our team is not built around Gordon. He "COULD" be an asset but if banned do I really care? Outside of his personal failure and hope that he can get rid of his demons and live a productive life. But as a Brown...I could care less.

TT and Mayfield - their success is like 100 x more important to this franchise. We have a pretty good WR group...best I've seen here since 1999. When our #1 pick of 2016 is doing well and it is a ??? if he will make the team, that is a good thing.

I love Landry, I think Calloway is the real deal. Higgins is tearing it up. I think Duke is an amazing WR with RB skills in space.

Miss matches, look to TE with Njoku and the guy getting better and better is Devalve. He has picked up the new offense and is the best route runner of all our TE.

Then we got Fells when we are goal to go. 6'7" 270 and is a miss match night mare...especially with him in the middle and the new patty-cake rule.

Gordon, could he be an asset. Of course, but this team will not DO or DIE because of him...he is a small piece of the puzzle.

jmho - Overall Defense and QB are the keys to our season!

I believe Corey Coleman is going to surprise a lot of folks as well.

step one is staying healthy ... step two is gaining trust through consistency

he has a long way to go, but I hope you're right

I certainly hope so but I don't know about that. We will soon see, as long as he stays healthy. Football season (at least preseason) is right around the corner.

If he can remain healthy (and yes, I know the two injuries were kinda weird ones) I would agree. With Gordon being out, that can only help his chemistry and timing with Tyrod and Baker.

I agree with everything u said .... everything ... but here’s the rub ...

U put the players on the field that give u the best chance to win ... regardless of when Josh shows up he will be one of the two WR’s that gives you the best chance to win ... Coleman can progress all he wants ... he will never be able to many of the things that Josh can at Josh’s level ...

Does he get “handed” the job the day he walks back ... NOPE ... but by the next game he will be on the field in some capacity and within a week or two he best be getting his full compliments of reps ...

I don’t like it .. i actually hate it ... but he has been treated by special rules his entire life ... and inside the world of todays NFL his talent will once again get him preferential treatment ...

I suggested we trade him while he was active. But nooo. So here we are again waiting for a drug addic to come clean just as I knew we would. There is nothing the Brown’s can do now. They can’t cut him, they can’t trade him. We all wait again, until the next time. Rinse and repeat. The cancer grows until the surgeon cuts it out.

LOL and Gordon doesn’t? We could have picked up another draft pick and got another WR that is more ready than Gordon.

Why?

Cutting Coleman will be no surprise.

There is nothing going on for him, he just does not fit in the NFL.


He could have a chance to be an average WR on a vertical offense, with a QB that can buy time, but we are not going that route.

Why am I not surprised that many posters here have more respect for JG than the players in camp?

Because Josh Gordon has more all-pros than many of those players have wins. People will go through leaps and bounds to retain employees they deem irreplaceable.

Besides, letting another team have Josh Gordon would just make our path to the Super Bowl that much harder. It's like how the Cavs traded Kyrie to the Celtics for pennies, they got screwed because of it and the Celtics are in great position. We can't keep jettising talent if we want to win.

i never said anything about JG?

just make Duke the slot guy and let all of us in ppr leagues feast on his reception points. Not to mention he was the best play maker last year.

reports have been that he's played a LOT of WR in camp thus far

Agreed. I'm not ready to give up on Josh. Not at the price we have him at. Not when we have two more years available to us on the cheap.


I just wish we did a better job of planning without him. It's why I wanted Terrelle Pryor and Jordan Matthews so much in FA.

Think of Josh as your number 5 WR. That's my theory. Pryor would have been a perfect option. Tall athletic guy to stretch the field. Not sure who we've got that can do that without Josh. Damion Ratley I guess. Not who I'd want to count on for that all important duty (spreading the defense and keeping a safety high)

** I am not posting all of the videos and Tweets.

Duke Johnson lobbies Hue Jackson to play wide receiver as he embraces his hybrid role with Browns | cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s...#incart_m-rpt-1

BEREA, Ohio -- Duke Johnson didn't hesitate when asked what was more fun, running the ball or catching it.

"Receiver, period," he said. "Being in the slot or lined up out wide is fun for me because it's different. It's something that I love to do."

So it wasn't a problem when the Browns' offensive coaching staff essentially made him their slot receiver to start the 2017 season? Or when they signed one running back and drafted another with a second-round pick this offseason?

"I want to be a slot receiver," he said. "I'd rather be a slot receiver than a running back, 100 percent."

In fact, he lobbies head coach Hue Jackson hard to play receiver.

"He's very demanding about it," Jackson said, laughing. "When he wants it, he asks for it and I want him to be that way. He does it the right way. When you have your good players asking for the ball because they want to help the team win, I'm all for that."

Still, we're talking about the all-time leading rusher at the University of Miami here, a school that has produced the likes of Frank Gore, Edgerrin James, Clinton Portis, Willis McGahee, Ottis Anderson -- The U, where Johnson says they're just built different. Why in the world would he want to be a slot receiver?

"It's fun for me, if I'm being honest," Johnson said. "Running back is OK. It's getting fun because they're allowing things that make it fun for me. But, if I had to go out there and be strictly a running back, no pass catching, no creativity, then that would suck."

In fact, if Johnson had his druthers, he'd probably play on the other side of the ball, opposite Denzel Ward at cornerback. He hasn't lobbied Jackson on that one yet.

"Oh, that's not happening," he said. "I'm babystepping. I'm starting as a receiver and I'll leave it there. I'll leave it there."

Johnson sat down with cleveland.com last Friday at the tail end of about 30 minutes worth of interviews. He's one of the faces of the Browns now, picked three general managers ago, a hit for Ray Farmer that John Dorsey rewarded with a new contract. His emergence last season was one of the bright spots in a dismal march to 0-16.

The fourth-year former Hurricane really is built a little different. His Instagram stories are more likely to show you what movie he's watching or what dish he just took out of the oven than his latest workout. Cooking is a hobby he picked up, he says, because it's something he can do while he walks around his house listening to music.

"I'm going to cooking school," he said. "I like cooking, so I'm going to school for it."

He talks like a grizzled veteran, even though he doesn't turn 25 until September. He calls himself old when it's brought up that this is his fourth training camp. He jokes that he was the mentor between him and former teammate Isaiah Crowell. His biggest lesson from his three previous training camps: go to sleep.

"You have to go to sleep," he said. "Because we get out (of the team facility) so late that it's like, go to sleep."

Johnson is softspoken when it's his turn at the podium, but he'll slip things in, like the nickname "Old School" for rookie Nick Chubb.

"The way (Chubb) carries himself, the way he dresses in practice, it drives me crazy," Johnson said.

When a reporter asked about his excellent hands, he nodded, mid-question and smiled. "Excellent hands. I like that," he said.

He's a chess player -- or at least he was in elementary school when his FCAT score, a standardized test in Florida, was so good he ended up in the chess club. He picked it back up recently after a hiatus.

"I played chess about a year ago, my first time playing in about ten years," he said.

He's a basketball fan, too, a Heat fan, specifically, who grew up in Miami. So it felt natural to bring up the idea of how basketball is becoming a game without positions. Could football emulate that? Could his role be defined like that?

"To a sense it can be," Johnson said. "Like you said, you look at LeBron, who's a (small forward), but he can play the point. You've got Giannis (Antetokounmpo), the Greek Freak, which, I don't know what he plays, but he can play everything. Basketball, yes. Football, running back, we're the ones who can be a playmaker in the sense."

Just like a basketball player, it's the matchups that Johnson seems to love -- in space against a linebacker or one-on-one barreling towards a cornerback. He thinks opponents still underestimate his physicality.

"100 percent. A lot of people still think I'm smaller than what they think, but I'm not," he said.

He points to 205 pounds as the weight he likes to play at, but mostly plays at 208 or 210 pounds. He's careful about balancing his size with his speed. He showed off last year that he can be as tough to bring down as any player in the league.

"I haven't seen too many people get him down one-on-one," Jackson said, "so he's a nice weapon to have."

It's not hard to find any number of plays in which Johnson put his agility, his toughness or both on display.

There was this play in the first quarter of the Browns' loss to Detroit where Johnson managed to keep his right knee inches -- maybe centimeters -- off the ground as he stretched for a first down.

Johnson flies under the radar, at least in part because his teams have won four games during his career. It's hard to get noticed outside fantasy football circles when almost all your games are on Sunday at 1 p.m.

He was the sixth running back picked in a strong running back class that included Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon and Tevin Coleman in front of him and David Johnson nine picks after. Jay Ajayi was a fifth round pick that year.

He ranks ninth among that draft class in career rushing yards but has fewer carries -- by a significant margin in some cases -- than all eight of the backs in front of him. He is fourth in the entire draft class -- not just running backs -- in receptions and sixth in receiving yards. He leads the running backs drafted in that class in both categories.

He points to Gurley, whose game reached a new stratosphere last season when he rushed for 1,305 yards and caught 64 passes for 788 yards, as an example of a playmaker, not just a runner. The Rams rewarded him with a four-year, $60 million extension.

"I look at Todd Gurley as one guy who got paid to be a playmaker," Johnson said, "not a running back, he's a playmaker."

Johnson has always faced questions at the NFL level about his durability and how much of a workload he can handle, even though he hasn't missed a game in the NFL. He has finished second on the Browns in total touches three years running.

The only significant time he missed in college came because of a broken ankle.

"That can happen to anybody," he said.

Johnson thinks those questions come from people repeating misinformation they've read elsewhere.

Longterm durability, though, is one of the bonuses he sees in not carrying the ball 25 times a game, though he's quick to point out, "I don't mind, I can do it."

"I'm able to be healthy, body don't really bother too much," he said, "because my biggest thing is after football. My biggest thing is, for me, after football, me having the ability to do what I want with my family and not have no restrictions, limitations because of football."

He's still a ways away from that post-football life, though, so where does he see himself in ten years?

"I better be retired in ten years," he said.

OK, five years.

"I'll still be here, hopefully," he said. "I'll still be in the league. That's definitely the plan, God willing I stay healthy enough to play, I still want to be in the league, hopefully at receiver."

He might just be serious about this whole receiver thing.

"Oh," he said, "I'm lobbying for receiver to death."

There's two tests a week. Then there's actually what is stated, which is "up to" two tests per week. And the NFL has always taken their sweet time announcing suspensions unless it's during the season in game suspensions based on play. The league did say they would make a statement about it at a later time. So it's not like they don't have something to say on the matter.

And lastly, I've never seen a rehab facility that let's you go out and practice football just a few days after reporting there. I've never gone to rehab but I know people who have. Usually the first week is intensive therapy. Not pass and catch. lol

I'm not saying he failed a test, but the optics on this whole thing are strange at best.

I'm not sure that's true

Oh sorry I thought this thread is about Josh.

I like Duke as the slot. Hell he is probably our 2nd best route runner behind Landry and he possesses great hands.

Will you stop pretending that there is a single team in the league that would have traded anything for Josh Gordon. I don't think any team would have given us a conditional 2021 7th rounder for him.

If you want to speculate that a team gave us a 7th rounder for him, fine, lets do that. Any WR that we drafted with that 7th rounder probably wouldn't make the team, and would go to the practice squad. So how is that helping anything?

I for one would rather take a shot at Gordon playing this season than a 7th round WR scrub. But, seeing as no team would give us that for Gordon in a trade, I'll change that to I for one would rather take a shot at Gordon playing this year than just outright cutting him, because what would be the point of that?

Josh Gordon breaking ankles in Gainesville

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...lle--120251005/

If this is his form of "dealing with his long term health" - he could "brake ankles" in camp.

I'm becoming more and more convinced, from the posture of the FO and players in their responses, and the strange decision to leave camp while everyone insists it has nothing to do with a failed test, that we're looking at Josh Gordon The Diva.

Gordon is pissed about his measly salary compared to the likes of the $15 mil Landry is being paid. He feels like he's busted his ass (he has) and returned to "God-like status" among the players and coaches that watch him work. It would only stand to reason, in a diva's mind, that he should be rewarded, even if he hasn't yet truly earned that reward.

Josh Gordon has an "out". At any given time he can just say he needs to step away and "take care of his demons"... He expressed his salary concerns to the FO, explained how hard he was working, etc... When they weren't receptive, he decided he would "step away" for a while. In the meantime, the Dez Bryant rumors were the perfect way for the FO to stick the middle finger right back in his face.

Obviously, just my opinion, nothing really to support it.

Stop pretending, me? LOL. Stop pretending Josh is coming back and going to be a star here. And besides Josh can’t be cut until he’s reinstated once again.

I'm not pretending anything. There is zero risk in retaining him.

You're pretending that the organization could have traded him for anything at all.

You are delusional.

And you are assuming the organization couldn’t have traded him for anything at all.

You are in denial.

The fear is Gordon gets cut/traded/whatnot and someone like Belichick signs him, Gordon straightens out and becomes a superstar receiver once again.


"We should have kept him."

Honest mistake.

I thought so too at first. Silly me.

What do you realistically believe any team would have given us for him?

If you're being realistic, it won't be a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, and probably not a 5th. I seriously doubt any GM would give a 6th or a 7th for him either. But even if they did, I'd rather have Gordon for one game vs a 6th or 7th rounder who isn't going to contribute either.

No one would trade for him, and he hasn't failed a drug test at this point. Why trade him or cut him at all? If he ever gets himself together, great, we have an All-Pro caliber receiver. If he doesn't, he costs no money, no roster spot, and he wouldn't be around the team with a failed test.