DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum shaffer

He has not had help with chip blocking any more than most of the other LT I have seen playing, and since Tucker has not been playing he has had even less.


I would like to find some info on that because I don't believe he has had very many called on him all year.


Sounds like a twin to all our other lineman <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


or his technique <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Tripe belongs in hot dogs,not on message boards.
<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Vers pointed it out perfectly all of the weaknesses Shaffer has at 26. You think his feet will get faster as he gets older? You think a guy who's played tackle untill he was 26 is suddenly going to understand and develop technique?

You may have a point that some players with average or above talent get too much heat from some of the fans,but Shaffer isn't one of them. And he's not going to be one of them. And he'll never see a pro-bowl. He lacks talent.

Now you can make any generalization you want to make about that if it seems to make you feel better. But facts are facts. He's not a has been or a going to be. He's a never was and a never will be.

Every player has weakness, but for some reason, many Browns fans think as soon as they put on the orange helment, all those are suppose to go away,

As for his feet, getting faster, no they wont, time to develop technique, maybe not develop new, but understanding what our offense is trying to do, and learning to play to within that, ya I do think he will improve, Players like Dieken, Rison, as they got older learned how to handle diffrent type of DE & DT even at the end of thier careers, ( and No i'm not comparing him to them ) just as player play they learn what works when and against what type, having a better than average guard next to them or him, only improved what they can do, 26 is young, he will only get better, yes maybe his feet wont get faster, but his experiance and knowledge will get better,



You dont know, I dont know, expecially after just one year, how many players have been given up for scrap, only to gain experiance and become excellent players, I'll hold off on the word Pro-bowler, cause to me the Pro bowl is a joke anyway.



LOL...I reallly dont need to say things to make myself feel better, my ego isnt that big, nor does it need stroked, and your right facts are facts, but what you presented isnt fact, it's speculation based upon what you have seen over one year and what you have maybe read, these are your thoughts, not facts. neither one of us know or see enough to state the facts, never was and never will be is your opinion, which your entitled to, but as for it being fact, nope, sorry....maybe it's time for a hot dog... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You seem to think or act as though he's a rookie?

Let's face it,he's no more than an average RT that was moved to LT. I saw him a lot! I like watching Michael Vick. Then more so than now,but while he's not my idea of an NFL QB,he was a lot of fun to watch. So I saw a lot of Shafer before he got here.

He played LT for a left handed QB.
<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
And didn't do that very well. Atlanta didn't have the faith to let him protect Vicks blind side and rightfully so. And if you saw him in atlanta,you would know they didn't run in his direction either.

Now please tell me what the odds of him overcoming these weaknesses are? I mean we're not talking one or two weaknesses,we're talking about a pretty long list.

If holding onto an abstract slight possibility of a third year starter who really hasn't shown much upside to this point is the route you wish to follow,help yourself. But looking at the deficiencies shown,verses the talent level he has for the position,I'll follow the odds because the are greatly in favor of my position.

As a back-up who may improve to the level of a starter? You have avery valid point that I would be happy to endorse. But to bank on him as our starter? Sorry,no evidence leads me to believe you're even close to being realistic here. And hopes and maybe's have gotten us nowhere on the OL so far. I don't see any logical reason to believe they will now.

I was just going to comment on that. I think I remember Savage saying that it was a "7 year 'playable' contract"

The only thing that really matters was the signing bonus. That can be spread over 5 years. I really doubt any real solution if he isn't the guy can be considered until after his 3rd season.

[color:"orange"]U know I don't think of you with little credibility...my reference to 01 was because you were correct in a lot of things that you had stated back then...basically that he was a OG and not a LT. Which in his first few season that is exactly what he was. But human nature does make first impressions lasting.

Since you never detailed any negatives other than to call me WRONG yes I assumed a lot of what you were basing it on was your initial impressions of him in 01.

I can be wrong? Sure more so in hastiness or with evaluations made from a poor database. But I took 4 games and watched them...every snap keying on him and not watching the game. I did see him get beat on a rare occasion by a speed rusher but in the four games not recording them on paper to say statistically 100% what I can say is that it did not exceed 5 occasions and probably was more on the line of 3.

But the times he didn't get beat he was in control. Leinart would have pressure...maybe from everywhere (see Bears game) but then you would see Davis controlling his man at the LOS and his man was not in a zone blitz situation. He was simply nuetralized immdediately and while the pocket broke down it had nothing to do with him.

Runs...he has been awesome in the running game...I mean totally manhandling his opponents and throwing them to the ground...sometimes driving them back 5-7 yds before throwing them to the ground.

[color:"red"]"whoever signs him will be SORRY AS HELL ... watch and see ... and my personal eval of him is no where near A STUD .... and that is based on alot more than 4 games .... as usual time will tell ...."

[color:"orange"]I truly hope we are that sorry team <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> as for what you evaluate him - I don't have a clue what you are basing it on. Surely you're not telling me you have watched him more than 4 games this season. Again I'm left with assumptions...is this from numerous games over the past 3 seasons????

All I know is that 4 games and I didn't take easy opponents...Bears n Seahawks were 2 games - I don't remember the other 2 opponents but I don't remember them as walk over Defenses. Time will tell but the thing is this.

Stud LTs don't become available in FA...this we know.

There is a good chance Leonard Davis will be a FA next year and possibly...or possibly not franchised by Zona. Now if he is not Franchised normally we can assume he just isn't good cause good LTs simply don't become available. None yet.

Except for certain circumstances in this case.
Zona's ownership is cheap...always have been!
Zona has a Lefty QB which doesn't put the priority of LT stud where they will have to spend a boat load of money to keep him there.

Here might be a rare occasion that a LT is let go and venture into the FA market and actually be a stud. Its an opportunity that doesn't come around often.

If Savage who I would have to say is a better evaluator than myself or yourself for that matter. Doesn't even sniff at him...more than likely I was wrong.
If Savage who has an Adequate LT signed (Shaffer) and pursues Davis come March I would have to say he is a stud.

LT's in the draft. Joe Thomas, D'Brick, McKinnie - you got to be very very lucky to be in the right place at the right time to get one. There are the 2nd tier guys. But Savage stated that LT is considered a Skilled position...if there is the rare occasion that a Stud LT is available in FA he should feel it worthwhile to pursue him cause there is no luck in the slotting of a draft pick. I just hope I'm right cause it would be great to have a stud. Just in the running game alone it would be awesome.

Back to Shaffer...He is dealing mostly with a speed DE. You are basing a lot of your Run blocking evaluations on him possibly being an OG by viewing his technique against Tall angular speed DEs. I still say he has a power base that can be converted to LG and be an upgrade to Andruzzi and with a Stud LT and a Bentley on each side is the type of talent that is as good as his surroundings.

Surround him with mediocre left n right he will be mediocre at best.
Surround him with good to great left n right he will be good to great.

Of course...I could be wrong. But I don't wish to agonize myself on the luck of the draw in the draft. I really would prefer to acquire Davis although I detest FA OL building but this could be a rare occasion just like Bentley was a rare occasion.
2 time 26 year old Pro-Bowlers simply don't become available...let alone Want to Come Here as a Priority. That is a rare occasion well so would be obtaining Davis at LT and I welcome it. If so then that would totally change our needs on draft day.

In that case I still think Shaffer's best case with us in making our unit a formidable OL unit is at LG. Sowells who knows what he will be we can only hope he turns out a positive at RG if not we must draft one...we might draft one anyways we can always upgrade...such as a Blalock if available to us in the 2nd (I doubt it) but he could vie for RG or RT. Bentley at Center...Fraley we definately will sign unless he simply wants out...to start at Center while Bentley heals and to hopefully be an INterior OL backup as would Andruzzi.

Smith from Tenn - our coaches seem high on him who knows where that takes us.
Dorsey - I won't count on. Butler we will have good tape to evaluate him on also but both have been in the NFL long enough to show their worth.

Remember I'm on drugs right now which shouldn't discredit me but should maybe have me less able to communicate my thoughts <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I'll stop here...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
JMHO

I knew something had to be wrong since you summed it up in 700 words. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"orange"]I'm bored out of my goard. I can't believe the length of posts that I've been doing lately...even for me they are too long...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Its got to be the drugs...I find myself babbling. Will try an appearance at a party tonight...Wife wants to go badly. I can't even be on my feet for a couple of hours till I can't wait to go home and lay down. Work is impossible and I just got a new warehouse and have to move from my old one before Jan. can't wait to be normal again. Of course another doctor needs to do surgery on me. I told him right now I don't want to hear those words. Will meet in Jan to discuss that one. Hopefull that will be it. We better win that SB soon....cause I'm determined to see it in my lifetime <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Have you said what's wrong with you...or are you taking a que from Tucker?

Thank you... it's nice to know at least someone else understands it and mein kampf at the position.