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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
And this is why I was asking willit what form his protests would take.
My point being: there probably isn't a damn choice he might make that wouldn't tick someone off.

But, I said 'probably' because I want to afford him an honest opportunity to 'thread the needle' with more precision and dexterity than Colin.

If he could come up with one, that would be pretty cool... it might even be adopted by the next aggrieved group when it's time for them to disseminate their message.

thumbsup


I think I'll try this again.. I just deleted a very lengthy reply to your earlier post, but didn't post it because I realized it was unduly harsh and probably not all too constructive.

If I'm Kaep and I have a something I find important that I feel compelled to raise awareness about, first, I have to figure out what my message is. It needs to be specific and understandable, especially if I'm going to put my career on the line (which maybe he didn't think it would cost him?)

Second, I need to take the time to understand who my target audience actually is and spend a little time predicting what their reaction is likely going to be and then figure out if he can still accomplish his goal.

I think he probably attempted this by consulting a Vet or two. However, finding a Vet to say what he was going to do was ok isn't much different than finding an "expert" for cable news analysis. While the act of kneeling itself is not disrespectful, kneeling during the anthem is. I don't see how any Vet could ever say otherwise considering I'd bet good money that none of the one's he consulted or the ones on DT ever took a knee during the anthem while they were in the Service. Personally I don't care so long as it doesn't delay kickoff.

I think I would have at least considered football for what it means to a ton of people: first, it's an escape from the rest of Life. It's something bigger than anyone of us that we belong to and the only colors that matter are our teams and there's. We proffer our own opinions on players with no regard to their skin color, the same way we spend hard earned money on our favorite player's jersey.

The problem I see when it comes to issues of equality is that too often those areas in life where no matter what we look like we actually do find ourselves on equal ground get overlooked. Even if it's something as trivial as a Browns Backer Bar on Sunday. Start with an acknowledgement of where you come together and go from there. If police brutality is the issue, then make it about police brutality as a whole because no matter what color you are, its wrong. When you make it about race you already start to alienate people from the conversation.

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And too some degree Clem, I'm honestly failing to see what the problem is. The goal was to raise awareness right? Hasn't this demonstration done that? I don't think there's anyone who hasn't heard the claims of police brutality towards black people. No one needed Kaep to bring attention to something that already was in so many other ways. One of the ways he failed is that he made a bold move, but tried to justify it in a mild manner "Well, a Vet I knew said it was ok".

No, I think the problem is that by "awareness" they mean the unequivocal and unquestionable acceptance that his message was undeniably true. I really think that was the expectation. I don't believe there was a goal of an actual dialogue about the subject, just like there has never been any serious desire for a conversation about race despite the calls for one over at least the last 10 years.

Respectfully, I think you and many others continue to underestimate the impact of people constantly being called racist for literally any criticism of President Obama. A lot of those fans were unjustly subject to that kind of thing. Can you understand why a plurality of white people would rather pass when offered the chance to talk about race? Why bother when it's highly unlikely an actual conversation will take place? With a 99.9% certainty that if I do engage and say anything remotely contrary to what I'm being told, I'll be called a racist, I'd be a pretty sad person if I didn't have something more constructive to do with my life than subject myself to that kind of crap.


As to what he should of done? I don't know, and honestly I don't really care. He and his message are full of [censored] not actually supported by facts, stats, or otherwise. But that's for another time.

But even when it comes to a righteous cause, it doesn't mean you don't have to display a certain degree of wisdom and marketing savvy. When Hardy's/Carls' Jr restructured, they identified their target (16-24 yr old males).. they then designed an advertising campaign based on that demographic which netted us a bunch of hot models eating big, overpriced burgers. But by tailoring the presentation of their product (message) it also netted them profitability.

Blaming the fans for not being more enthusiastic about the issue is like Jimmy Haslam blaming the fans for not having a good Game Day experience.


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I would imagine there are many veterans that feel they are fighting for all of the freedoms that are insured for all Americans. One of those freedoms is the right to protest. I know that sounds like a strange concept to some yet I'm sure there are many veterans who comprehend it.


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That sounds very noble, but the NFL players are at work. NO ONE is stopping them from protesting on their own time.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That sounds very noble, but the NFL players are at work. NO ONE is stopping them from protesting on their own time.


But they would lose the platform. Just making people debate it means they have effectively protested.

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How dare the Boston tea party protest by throwing perfectly good tea into water.

Those stupid protesters should’ve done so on their own time. Instead of ticking off us who are still loyal to the crown.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Quote:
I will say though, the kneeling has been turned completely towards Trump getting involved, and has lost its original intent. Perception, possibly, but that's just my perception at this point.

I don't disagree with you. Trump (and the NFL owners) taking the stance they did really ramped up the effort. Before Trump spoke up, much of the hoopla surrounding the kneeling had died down.. then Trump took to Twitter to incite.. and everybody responded by retreating even deeper into whichever side of the debate they wanted to be on..

That's Trump's MO.. drive wedges.. make every issue an us against them battle royale.. that's why LeBron was 100% accurate when he said that Trump is a divider. I don't give a rats butt what his policies are and if THEY actually create division.. his rhetoric is designed for just one purpose, to divide people into camps to clearly identify who the "enemy" is.. That's what he's all about.


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I wish you would post these thoughts in the LeBron thread on EE. They are very similar to the points I have been trying to make.

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“They were fighting for our country, they were fighting for our flag, they were fighting for our national anthem,” he said, referring to injured soldiers he’s visited at Walter Reed. “For people to disrespect that by kneeling during the playing of our national anthem I think is disgraceful.”


President Trump

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Donald J. Trump
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@realDonaldTrump
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Lebron James was just interviewed by the dumbest man on television, Don Lemon. He made Lebron look smart, which isn’t easy to do. I like Mike!



Folks, that is our president speaking after he just opened up a school for at-risk youths. The same man who is providing tons of college scholarships to students. The same man who feeds hungry children and offers job skills training to parents who are out of work.

LeBron James is a true American hero. Donald Trump is an American disgrace!

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Originally Posted By: rockyhilldawg
Quote:
“They were fighting for our country, they were fighting for our flag, they were fighting for our national anthem,” he said, referring to injured soldiers he’s visited at Walter Reed. “For people to disrespect that by kneeling during the playing of our national anthem I think is disgraceful.”


President Trump

He left out "they were fighting for our freedom".. wasn't that always the big chant from the right? but that would include freedom to protest, so.....

I bet if you asked 10,000 soldiers what they are fighting for, not a single one would put "The National Anthem" in the top 10..

But anyway.. it's just Trump deflecting again, making this about soldiers, when that is STILL not what this is about.


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Soldiers who are fighting for the national anthem are Darwin award winners in training.

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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Soldiers who are fighting for the national anthem are Darwin award winners in training.


Why do you feel the need to always lower yourself to the lowly level? Sheesh!

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN

That's Trump's MO.. drive wedges.. make every issue an us against them battle royale.. that's why LeBron was 100% accurate when he said that Trump is a divider.


Driving wedges between right and wrong is no vice.

Driving wedges between those Allies who take advantage of us by not paying for their agreed to part of NATO and the American Citizen who pays for it all.

Driving wedges between those friends and foes who take advantage of us in trade and jobs and the people of America who suffer.

Driving wedges between those who would flood our overwhelmed Nation with illegal immigrants and the citizens of America who pay for it all.

Driving wedges between those who obey our Laws and those who think they know better.

Driving wedges between those who would allow illegals to vote and the American Citizen who has earned that Right.

Driving wedges between those who stand tall to honor our Flag and Anthem and those who kneel as if their cause is greater than honoring America when there is a way to do both.

After the wedge is driven and the wrong is pointed out, talks and negotiations can begin by both sides to come to an agreement that everyone can live with.

If one side is so stubborn they refuse to give or discuss a reasonable solution, then it is on!

It has worked for President Trump, time after time. thumbsup

It is working for the American People as well. thumbsup


Last edited by 40YEARSWAITING; 08/04/18 10:16 PM.
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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I wonder how many fans TO just got considering Randy is protesting at the NFL.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN

That's Trump's MO.. drive wedges.. make every issue an us against them battle royale.. that's why LeBron was 100% accurate when he said that Trump is a divider.


Driving wedges between right and wrong is no vice.

Driving wedges between those Allies who take advantage of us by not paying for their agreed to part of NATO and the American Citizen who pays for it all.

Driving wedges between those friends and foes who take advantage of us in trade and jobs and the people of America who suffer.

Driving wedges between those who would flood our overwhelmed Nation with illegal immigrants and the citizens of America who pay for it all.

Driving wedges between those who obey our Laws and those who think they know better.

Driving wedges between those who would allow illegals to vote and the American Citizen who has earned that Right.

Driving wedges between those who stand tall to honor our Flag and Anthem and those who kneel as if their cause is greater than honoring America when there is a way to do both.

After the wedge is driven and the wrong is pointed out, talks and negotiations can begin by both sides to come to an agreement that everyone can live with.

If one side is so stubborn they refuse to give or discuss a reasonable solution, then it is on!

It has worked for President Trump, time after time. thumbsup

It is working for the American People as well. thumbsup



I can't wait to see your sobbing when Trump finally goes down. thumbsup That will be really good stuff right there and I'll probably shed a tear thanking you for it. wink

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NFL analysts Marshall Faulk and more reportedly not returning to network following scandal

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/201...ng-scandal.html

After being accused of sexual harassment, Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk is expected to part ways with NFL Network soon, The Post has learned.

Sources said Ike Taylor and Heath Evans also will not return as analysts on the network’s broadcast this fall. The trio was suspended late last year after a woman brought a wrongful termination suit against NFL Enterprises.

Taylor is already gone, while representatives for Faulk and Evans are finishing up the language of their exits. Faulk’s contract had at least one more year on it.

One clause in the deals, sources said, will prevent either side from suing the other.

The NFL Network declined comment.

Besides having the most prolific playing career, Faulk had the highest TV profile of the three, having worked on NFLN’s top Sunday pregame show and as part of its “Thursday Night Football” coverage. The suit claims Faulk groped the woman’s breasts and behind, while Taylor allegedly sent a video of himself masturbating in the shower. Evans is said to have asked for sex and sent nude pictures of himself.

Former Pro Bowl quarterback Donovan McNabb and cornerback Eric Davis also were named in the suit. They both had already left NFLN for ESPN. ESPN subsequently fired the duo.

After the suit, Eric Weinberger, an executive producer at NFLN, also lost his job. Weinberger, who allegedly sent nude pictures of himself to the woman, had previously left for Bill Simmons’ Ringer. Weinberger was first placed on administrative leave before being fired by The Ringer.

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What does the situation at NFL Network have to do players kneeling during the National Anthem?

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Domestic violence and the NFL: A sampling of players who have been charged

By Paul Vigna | pvigna@pennlive.com | Posted July 11, 2018 at 02:09 AM | Updated July 11, 2018 at 06:14 AM

https://www.pennlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/07/5705c996636274/nfl-players-arrested-for-viole.html

The accusations dispersed on social media Tuesday against Buffalo Bills running back LeSean McCoy resonate as much because of the frequency that National Football League players during this decade have been arrested for domestic violence as the perception that the league continues to be tone-deaf in addressing the issue.

NFL officials would argue that it's taking the problem seriously, pointing to a revision of its personal conduct policy in 2016 that created stiffer penalties in the wake of the Ray Rice incident.

Here a breakdown by PennLive writer Daniel Gallen on what the current penalties could mean for McCoy.

Below are some of the NFL players who have been arrested this decade for domestic violence and/or violence against women.


RB Ray Rice

Suspended Baltimore Ravens football player Ray Rice (right) and his wife, Janay Palmer, arrive for a hearing on Nov. 5, 2014, in New York City. Rice was fighting his suspension after being caught beating his wife in an Atlantic City casino elevator in February 2014.

Rice's contract was terminated by the Ravens in September 2014. He was subsequently suspended indefinitely by the league, but was later reinstated following his successful appeal of the decision in federal courts.

He has not played in the NFL since.

DE Greg Hardy

Greg Hardy was an all-star defensive end for the Carolina Panthers, who on July 15, 2014, was found guilty of assaulting an ex-girlfriend,and sentenced to 18 months probation as well as being suspended for 10 games by the NFL. While the charges and suspension were later dropped after the victim failed to appear in court to testify, Hardy's arrest and trial were the focus of considerable controversy.

He has not played in the NFL since 2015.

RB Jonathan Dwyer

Running back Jonathan Dwyer pleaded guilty in January 2015 to charges of disorderly conduct.

A running back for the Arizona Cardinals and Pittsburgh Steelers, he was charged initially with felony aggravated assault and criminal damage in an incident where police alleged Dwyer broke his wife's nose in an incident at their home July 21, 2014.

Dwyer pleaded not guilty to the charges. The lesser charges brought with it a sentence of 18 months probation and community service.

He never played in the NFL again.


WR Dez Bryant

The longtime Dallas Cowboy was arrested in 2012 on a misdemeanor domestic violence charge in Texas when he pushed his mother, Angela, during an argument with his half brother. The charge was dropped after he maintained a clean record for one year.



LB Erik Walden

lThe NFL suspended Green Bay Packers linebacker Erik Walden for the 2012 regular-season opener for violating the league's personal conduct policy.

In February 2012, Walden reached a deferred judgment agreement to resolve a disorderly conduct-domestic abuse charge without pleading guilty. Walden spent Thanksgiving weekend in jail after a dispute with his girlfriend and also agreed to perform 50 hours of community service and continue counseling.

He last played in 2017 for the Tennessee Titans.


WR Santonio Holmes

Santonio Holmes in June of 2006 was charged with assaulting a woman, who told police the father of her child had assaulted her. While officers were making their report at the apartment, Holmes returned and was arrested without incident.

In December of that year, the judge dismissed misdemeanor charges of domestic violence and assault after being assured by Holmes' two lawyers that their client was participating in ongoing counseling offered through the NFL.


DE Ray McDonald

Ray McDonald (91), has been involved in a series of incidents, beginning in May 2014 and continuing into the following year. In August 2014, McDonald's fiancée showed authorities bruises on her arm and neck that she sustained in an alleged altercation with McDonald. In December 2014, the 49ers cut McDonald just hours after he was named as a suspect in another sexual assault investigation

On May 25, 2015, McDonald was arrested on suspicion of domestic violence and possible child endangerment, and two days later arrested again for violating a restraining order. Eventually the charges were dropped and McDonald joined the Chicago Bears, but he hasn't played in a regular season game since then.

His ex-fiancee spoke out about the incident in December 2016.

LB Daryl Washington

Arizona Cardinals linebacker Daryl Washington, right, pleaded guilty in March 2014 to aggravated assault in a domestic violence incident that took place the year before that left his ex-girlfriend and the mother of his child with a fractured collarbone.

Combined with a substance-abuse violation, he would be suspended from the NFL for three years before being reinstated in April 2017. The Arizona Cardinals would cut him the following month.


DE Kevin Williams

In August 2005, defensive end Kevin Williams was charged with fifth-degree domestic assault after his wife called 911. When officers arrived at Williams' house, his wife had two injuries to her left arm as well as blood on her T-shirt and claimed Williams assaulted her for not wearing her wedding ring.

According to accounts, police noticed that Kevin was drunk and "not fully aware or really caring about what was going on." He wound up pleading guilty to disorderly conduct and was sentenced to a $1,000 fine and one year of probation. The NFL did not suspend him.

He would play another 10 seasons, his last one in 2015 with the Saints.



WR Brandon Marshall

Brandon Marshall was named in at least eight separate incidents of violence against women between 2006 and 2009. But none of those incidents led to a criminal conviction (several didn't result in any charges filed), and the NFL suspended him only once, for one game.


DT Tony McDaniel

Charged in 2006 with aggravated assaulted after beating up a fellow student at Tennessee during a pick-up basketball game, Tony McDaniel four years later was arrested on the charge of domestic battery against his girlfriend. That incident was alleged to have occurred in the driveway of his resident in Broward County, Florida. The charges were later reduced to disorderly contact, a misdemeanor. He pleaded no contest, was sentenced to six months probation, and was required to attend counseling. The NFL would suspect hi for one game, without pay, as punishment.

He has played for six NFL teams, including two stints with two of them, and was a member of the New Orleans Saints until being released in February of this year.

CB Chris Cook

In October 2011, Chris Cook (20) was charged with felony domestic assault by assault by strangulation and felony third-degree assault after an alleged fight with his girlfriend at a residence in Minnesota. Per the report from arriving officers, the "was crying, she was holding the right side of her head with her hand, and her nose was bleeding." According to the report, "officers observed marks on [her] neck and hemorrhaging in [her] eye that is consistent with strangulation." It was revealed that she also suffered a perforated ear drum and lost hearing in one ear for two weeks. Five months later he was acquitted.

His least season in the NFL was 2014, when he played for the an Francisco 49ers.

DE Frostee Rucker

Defensive end Frostee Rucker (92) was a freshman at Colorado State University in April 2002 when was arrested and charged with sexual assault of one woman and indecent exposure to another. Three months later, he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of harassment and received a one-year deferred sentence.

On June 23, 2006, in Los Angeles, he was charged with two counts of domestic battery and two counts of vandalism from what was alleged to be a fight with his girlfriend the previous year. He would eventually reach an agreement that called for three years probation, 750 hours of community service, and payment of $400 to a domestic violence fund as well as $100 restitution to the victim. That order also included completion of a 52-week domestic-violence treatment program.


DE Randy Starks

Defensive end Randy Starks (left) was arrested in Tennessee in August 2006 and charged with domestic assault following an incident with his then-fiancée at the home they shared. The woman alleged that Starks tried to remove her engagement ring from her hand during an argument, which she said caused nine of her fingernails to break and bleed. She also alleged that Starks banged her head against a wall.

Four months later, Starks reached an agreement on the condition he would continue NFL-sponsored anger-management counseling.

His last year in the NFL was 2015, with the Cleveland Browns.

S Donte Whitner

Safety Donte Whitner was accused of harassment in a domestic dispute with his girlfriend in 2006. The charges were later dropped, and the NFL assessed no punishment.

His last season in the NFL was with Washington in 2016.
PennLive archives

Once news circulated about LeSean McCoy on Tuesday morning, both the NFL and Buffalo Bills said they would investigate.

Here are stories PennLive published Tuesday on the matter.

LeSean McCoy: What NFL personal conduct policy could mean for Harrisburg native after domestic abuse allegations

'Targeted' attack at LeSean McCoy's Georgia home, police say: What we know so far

Police went to LeSean McCoy's Georgia home 'in reference to a female who was assaulted': Report

LeSean McCoy's mother says he didn't beat, hasn't seen ex-girlfriend in more than a month

All this comes in the wake of two women in May resigning from the NFL Players Association commission on domestic abuse because of what they said was a "body that exists in name only." Deborah Epstein, a professor of law and co-director of the Georgetown University Law Center's Domestic Violence Clinic, and Susan Else, former president of the National Network to End Domestic Violence, both stepped down. Here is Epstein's explanation for her action in an editorial that appeared in the Washington Post.

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Quote:
Domestic violence and the NFL: A sampling of players who have been charged


What does this article have to do w/the players who are kneeling during the National Anthem?

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
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Domestic violence and the NFL: A sampling of players who have been charged


What does this article have to do w/the players who are kneeling during the National Anthem?


You don't see it as an issue that should be addressed by the players? notallthere

You don't think Domestic violence is an issue worth kneeling over? willynilly

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Vambo is hating on NFL players on a Browns' message board to own the libs lmao

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Domestic violence and the NFL: A sampling of players who have been charged


What does this article have to do w/the players who are kneeling during the National Anthem?


Just like all his crimes by immigrants threads, his own little a smear campaign.

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Originally Posted By: Vambo
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Domestic violence and the NFL: A sampling of players who have been charged


What does this article have to do w/the players who are kneeling during the National Anthem?


You don't see it as an issue that should be addressed by the players? notallthere

You don't think Domestic violence is an issue worth kneeling over? willynilly


I personally don't think anyone should kneel during the anthem while at work. However, trying to correlate NFL players kneeling w/NFL players committing domestic violence is a pretty sick attempt to control the narrative, rather than discussing the topic w/intelligence and class.

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It's bad for a few reasons, for one, Vambo hasn't commented on Zach Smith beating his wife, because he probably supports Smith. And mainly, police beat their wives' 2-4x as often as the general population. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/P...ate-2536928.php

Of course, Vambo believes that #bluelivesmatter, which means that their significant others' life does not matter. Does it really surprise anyone that Vambo is a fan of domestic violence?

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LOL.............not so sure how intelligent and classy that reply was, either.

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Maybe it could have been worded better but I believe the points he made were valid to some extent. With Vambo it's not so much what someone has done as much as it is about who has done it.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
LOL.............not so sure how intelligent and classy that reply was, either.
Good thing facts don't care about feelings.

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Typical start to a day with Clem and Swish...

Good morning guys, what has your hair on fire today?

We don't know 40, they haven't told us yet.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Typical start to a day with Clem and Swish...

Good morning guys, what has your hair on fire today?

We don't know 40, they haven't told us yet.


Good morning. Shouldn't you get some breakfast before you start trolling the forums?

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I'm shaven.

Women love the Yul Brinner/Tell you Savalas/ Michael Jordan look.


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Typical start to a day with Clem and Swish...

Good morning guys, what has your hair on fire today?

We don't know 40, they haven't told us yet.


i should've never set my daughters real age on the PS4. parental control crap is a nightmare, especially since we're all playing GTA online right now robbing banks together.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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No, he is simply resorting to the same classless posting style that Vambo uses. Zach Smith has not been convicted of beating his wife. Lumping all police in together as women beaters is not a cool thing to do.

Both sides make me cringe.

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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
It's bad for a few reasons, for one, Vambo hasn't commented on Zach Smith beating his wife, because he probably supports Smith. And mainly, police beat their wives' 2-4x as often as the general population. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/P...ate-2536928.php

Of course, Vambo believes that #bluelivesmatter, which means that their significant others' life does not matter. Does it really surprise anyone that Vambo is a fan of domestic violence?


All lies just made up BS! rolleyes

And you talk about Trump telling lies...you make Trump look like Honest Abe. tsktsk

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someone doesn't need to be convicted to make me think that they're guilty of a crime. Zach Smith admitted to choking her twice, I don't need the 12 dumbest, least informed people in Central Ohio to make a ruling for me. I also don't care if victims, especially in hard to prove crimes like DV and rape, even go through the legal system. I will believe them until I'm given evidence on the contrary. Sorry if believing rape victims disgusts your centrist sensibilities.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
No, he is simply resorting to the same classless posting style that Vambo uses. Zach Smith has not been convicted of beating his wife. Lumping all police in together as women beaters is not a cool thing to do.

Both sides make me cringe.


I also do not believe that all police are women beaters, but I do know they are more likely to beat their wife than NFL players. An odd concept, because you NEVER hear about police misusing their power rolleyes

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Like I said, you are displaying the same qualities as Vambo. I could care less if you approve of my message or not. You're both vile.

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