DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Crow Has Flown

I loved a lot of Dorsey's off-season moves. I'm not a fan of the Shelton trade or not keeping Crow, however.

I know I might be alone in this, but I think we are going to miss Crow. He is much faster [don't know their 40 times--I'm talking about how they run in traffic,] more elusive, and falls forward better than either of our new RBs.

Neither of these two guys will burst through the line, make a sharp cut, and be off to the races. Crow gave us that. These guys won't.

I am a bit concerned w/our RB situation this year.

I really didnt know much about Chubb, but it appears he's more of a bowling ball and less of an elusive type. I mean, he had little room last night ... but didn't create anything either.

This was my biggest concern from last night.

I'm not ready to say our backs suck after one, single, preseason game... in addition, I'm not sure Crow would've busted any because our offensive line units weren't doing their job in the run game last night.

I know you didn't value Chubb high, but let's give him and our offensive line a chance to gel. I'm more concerned with how the line didn't generate any holes that I could see against a vanilla defense.

I'm a UGA homer, so I was definitely disappointed with Dorsey not giving Crow a contract.

He stays healthy, and he can run the ball pretty well. Yes, yes, he has his moments when he trips pretty easily, but he's a darn good runner.

I know Chubb very well, and he isn't as elusive as Crow, and may have lost a step after his injury in college, but he will be fine.

Here is the scouting report I gave about Chubb BEFORE the draft on my Evaluating and Ranking the RBs thread. I put quite a bit of work into that thread.



I showed the Alabama game for a reason. I wanted it against the best competition. I did the same thing w/Sony Michell. The latter looked much better against a top D. I tried to show each prospect against a tough defense and steered away from posting highlight videos.

With all that said...........did anything you see from Chubb last night differ from my evaluation?

I certainly don't think that Chubb played like an All World back last night, but I also think that he didn't get much help from the OL. I hated some of the outside run calls, because I don't think that was the best use of the young man. I was glad that we got him a succesful play in the passing game, so at least he has soemthing to keep his head up about.

As someone else pointed out, the only starter on the OL last night, who was in the same position last year, was Tretter. The rest were either new, or in new spots. (Bitonio LT, Corbett at LG, Drango at RG, and Hubbard at RT)

None of our RBs had any success in the game. Hyde lost a yard on his 1 carry. Duke gained 3 yards on 1 carry. Mayfield ran 3 times for 13 yards, but the rest of the team (including those I already mentioned) ran for a whopping 39 yards on 30 carries. We struggled in running the ball last night.

Also, we played a lot of guys who were ..... in need of seasoning ... on the OL.

As far as the OL, I thought that the 1st team played well in the pass game, especially in the hurry up game, but other than that, it struggled a great deal.

Just my $0.0000002 worth.

Crowell was underrated and underutilized during his time here. I wish him well.

You got all that out of one preseason game with a new LT LG and RG RT, two new backs in a new system, one being a rookie? Nostra Fn Damus!

Somebody I like and respect said this to a guy bashing Calloway: "Dude, you don't "know" squat. You are just guessing like everyone else."

Crowell gave us that on those rare occasions when he could actually see a hole in the line. Crow's problem was lack of vision and correctly anticipating a hole opening up.

Great burst and sharp cuts are great traits in a running back. But if an RB keeps plowing into the back of his own O-line because he can't see where the hole is, what's the point?

While I wasn't a big fan of Crow I wasn't a hater either - I was mostly, "Meh." He was an OK back who flashed from time to time. I wasn't despondent when he left. We'll see how the new RBs and new OC do with the run game this year, assuming the O-Line can actually run block.

Chubb seems like a back who isn't a threat to get huge chunks or get to the outside. He's in between the tackles with limited breakaway ability.

You aren't alone. I liked Crow. As for Danny, I think it was simply because we wanted more mobility out of our DT's.

Chubb is more of a bruiser type back, but I am not all that concerned at this point. With 3 new QBs on the squad, it looks to me like we have been focused on the passing game in camp to this point. We are also trying to nail down the LT position, so it makes sense we have been working a lot in the passing game because that is more complex then the run game. If 2-3 weeks from now we are still getting stonewalled in the run game, then we do have a problem. In the game 2 nights ago, the backs didn't even have a chance to create anything. It's hard to create anything when 3 defenders are closing in 1 yard deep.

Thank god the tower FINALLY cleared him for take off ...

No, I got all of that after watching all three backs in many, many games. I'm a huge Ohio State fan and I know what Hyde can and can't do. As I mentioned earlier, [which you conveniently ignored,] I did an extensive study on last year's running back class. I didn't just watch highlights. It's also makes sense that I have seen a lot of Crow over the years.

So no, I didn't get all of that out of one preseason game. I got it because I know running backs. I've shared these thoughts on other threads. It's not a new thing. I simply thought that this might be a good time to bring it up again considering we have seen all three perform in the last couple of days.

I did see him make a nice catch and run.

Not for nothing, wasn't he playing with the #2 O-line, or were the starters still in at first? Run blocking in general was horrid, and I'd expect their #2 D to play much better than our #2 O-line in general. I do think think Chubb looked slow and hesitant but it's early and he could be still finding his way. We'll have to wait and see, but I've seen much better from Chubb than what we got Thursday.

Crow also had bouts of being indecisive and dancing behind the line of scrimmage.

The RB coach is going to have to explain to Chubb that he needs to make his own hole when it isn't there and it's going to take a little time until he's comfortable doing it, but he is big enough and powerful enough to do just that.

It was the center of our line that looked so bad in the first game and that is where a back like Chubb needs to run 80% of the time. He's not beating anyone to the outside.

Chubb can't get to the outside, so he's going to be in the box 95% of the time ... he's gonna need Corbett, Zeitler, and Tretter to be good

one thought, versatile, about your thorough Chubb evaluation . I do not know what surgery Chubb had but often the second year post op shows significant improvement in function. Hopefully that will be the case with our new running back.

This thread is way too early and prohibits us from acknowledging a proper evaluation of the running game. The biggest problem I see is the 3rd down percentage and the 3 and outs. 28th in the league last year and is a major contributor to all our losses the last 2 years. We need to implement the highest percentage of plays to be top 5 in this category. Tom Brady knows this and it the major reason they win Superbowls!

I'd have to say that we both agree and disagree. lol

I really don't feel we improved our situation at RB. I liked Crow and felt he was undervalued by both this FO and the fan base for the most part. I guess we are deeper at RB now but I'm not sure we are better at the talent level.

I looked a lot at Chubb after we drafted him. I appreciate the trouble you went to in evaluating all the RB's the way you did but my approach has been to wait until after the draft to take a look at who we got with the exception of a few positions. CB, LT, QB. I look at our greatest needs and focus more on that.

So to this extent we agree. Now to where we disagree. While I do agree that Chubb isn't the back he was pre-surgery, I see him as a RB who has improved as time went along after his surgery. To me he looked much better the longer that time elapsed after his surgery. With that said, I think I have more hope for Chubb than you do.

I really have zero evaluation based on the first preseason game. A stat was shown in one of the preseason threads that stated that Chubb was hit behind the LOS over 73% of the time for a combination of -2 yards. I'm not a big stat guy but when looking with my eyes, that's about what I thought I saw too. It's hard for me to garner much considering that. I'm going to have to see him behind the first string OL with somewhere to run before I can really make a realistic evaluation of where he is now.

I will say watching Crows catch and run for a TD in the Jets game was a thing of beauty. Taking on three defenders near the goal line for a TD was something I loved seeing.

early returns were not good Thursday, but we also didn't see Chubb with the starters or Hyde/Duke very much.

Not to mention we had some injuries along the OL.

If we don't look better after week 3, then I'm going to be really concerned

Hear the valid concern. The flip side is to suggest that Crow would have been way better last night here. Can't say I believe it. Better line play and players could help. This phase isn't ready yet.
I also didn't want Shelton to go, just a sentimental favorite. Two more guys to beat.

The guy I really didn't want to let go was Jabaal Sheard ... IMO, he was a guy to keep. And he's played fairly well for NE

the.Browns really dont have a RB right now thats explosive enough to break off a 75 yd run. Crowell was the back that had a 50 yd plus run.
i think.Crowell is a throwback rb from.the 70.80s.
kinda in the same category James Wilder William Andrews bell.cows

Just wondering if it may be the case of..

1st pre-season game..Coaches " lets focus on the Pass protection "

2nd pre-season game..Coaches "lets focus on the Run protection "

Could that be the case ?

I don't believe so.

Thanks Pit..just wonder how the thought process is with 4 pre-season games.. Seems it would be easier to do a little at a time then all at once.

My thinking is because of how blocking works. Actually run blocking takes the basic fundamentals of playing OL. Leverage and footwork are those basic keys.

Pass blocking is simply building off of those basics to more complicated blocking schemes and skills.

To me, it seems like your question would be akin to asking if someone took a chemistry class before they had ever taken basic earth science. You really can't take the more complicated classes before you master the basics. That's my take on it anyway.

It was Crowell, but Hue said that the run wasn't impressive and that he himself could have run through that hole.

j/c:

Sometimes, I think people don't read all that well. I have explained a few times that I am not basing my observations off of one preseason game.

I am also not saying that our RB crew is way worse than last year's or that it is time to panic. LOL

I was simply making an observation on a relevant topic that most people aren't talking about. It's called talking about football and it is a diversion from the bulk of posts that are about guys w/drug issues, the qb situation, or the fire Hue crap.

Btw, Nick's injury was in October of 2015 and most considered it as possibly career ending. I give him credit for working his tail off and becoming a high draft pick. I think he's a great kid.

I just think that we will miss Crow's explosiveness a bit this year.

Seems everybody thrives in NE-land. I liked Sheard as well. Seems if I like them, well it's a lock that they will be leaving. Last season was ugly on its own, but there seemed to be an aimlessness, like lame game planning, execution, management of games, and so on.

And we flushed some folks as a result. Hope to see that we have stepped up considerably. Yet to be verified.
Stay tuned!

I liked Crowell but I think our triumvirate of running backs will at least be “ok”. I believe this is chubb’s second season back on the field post op so I expect some improvement in function.

I gather you did not read my last post, but I tried to express that I didn't think we would be way worse. I also provided the year of Chubb's knee injury. Here it is again. It was in October of 2015. Not 2017. Not 2016. But, 2015.

While I disagree with a lot of posters about Crows explosiveness. In my opinion he ran into the backs of his blockers too much and was tackled easily.He had 1 big run against Baltimore 2 years ago if I remember correctly. He himself wasn't effective at sweeps as i believe he too was too slow. Running the sweeps was Dukes job, but Duke himself is fumble prone when running with the ball. As for the preseason game, Chudd had a few 3-4 yard runs between the tackles he just lost yardage trying to run outside. I believe to get the full potential out of Chubb and Hyde is to use them together in a 2 back set with a good rotation of Duke. JMHO

Crow was a good and reliable and always available RB ... but to my you mentioned the 2 things that prevented him from being great. . . . he lacked vision because he did run into the backs of blockers too often ... and he did get tackled too easily. The tackle issue imo was a result of his forward lean which resulted in him never/hardly ever losing yards - but it also meant he would lose balance and could go down from a leg tap or something that a RB with thier feet under them would not. He ripped some nice runs for us and overall he was above average. Hyde at his best and healthy isn't a downgrade for the most part. We'll have to see about Chubb - I had very high hopes after the draft and one bad blocking preseason game isn't going to make me lose hope yet.

I have no knocks on Crow. The team just wanted fresh bodies at the position. I'm good with the moves, let's see how it pans out as the line gels.

Crow had a nice series for the Jets resulting in a 12(?)yard catch for a TD. Unfortunately he suffered a head injury on the TD. I don't remember them saying concussion but he went to the locker room after that play.

[quote=ddubia]Crow had a nice series for the Jets resulting in a 12(?)yard catch for a TD. Unfortunately he suffered a head injury on the TD. I don't remember them saying concussion but he went to the locker room after that play. [/quote yeah, he got hit pretty hard after a really nice play

Miss his production? Was that a helmet to helmet? Saw a replay clip that I thought was Jets, but not sure it was Crow.

It was him. A 16 yard catch and run for the TD taking on three defenders at the goal line.