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They really, really loved your OJ analogy. brownie

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog



I related some of the thoughts of CHS and cfrs and all were appalled at how biased and ugly those two were.


I will probably get suspended again for saying this, but that may be one of the lamest things I have ever read on this message board


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So, you think people should be convicted of a crime w/out a trial and/or before all the facts are out?

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
So, you think people should be convicted of a crime w/out a trial and/or before all the facts are out?


That does seem to be the consensus around here.


WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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I don't know. I think that most of us are of the mindset that all people deserve a fair trial. There are just a very vocal few who have convicted two men of a crime before all the facts are in.

It's hard to debate w/them because they immediately pull the "victim" card, as if we don't care about true victims.

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Who is the other man?

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https://articles.cleveland.com/osu/2018/...impression=true

How a serious discussion around Ohio State turned into a soap opera: Doug Lesmerises


COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The story around Ohio State involves a serious and legitimate issue of the proper role of a powerful community entity in addressing a real community problem.

Ohio State football has money and resources. A woman claimed her ex-husband, an Ohio State football assistant, had committed domestic abuse. What should Ohio State football and people like football coach Urban Meyer and athletic director Gene Smith do about that? What did they do about that? What can be learned about what could be done next time? What are their duties, but also what should they aspire to do in an ideal world?

There's a way to address that without assigning blame until the facts are in. There's a way to investigate that by seeking truth, then abiding by lessons learned. There's a way to talk about that without resorting to personal attacks and digging in on a side, when clearly there's a muddled and unfortunate middle ground.

We're so far from removed from that, it's hard to remember if we were ever there.

Saturday, we reached soap opera levels.

Domestic abuse often comes down to he said, she said. This story has reached he said, she said, she said, he said, he Facebooked, he Facebooked, she retweeted, she liked on Twitter, he theorized on Reddit and wait ... is there another Facebook post? Did a Michael Jackson hologram appear to moonwalk a message about what really happened?

Somewhere, there remains a woman, Courtney Smith, who reached out for help, and a husband, former Ohio State receivers coach Zach Smith, who has admitted to putting his hands on her in the midst of volatile, aggressive confrontations, though he says his actions were in self defense.

Somewhere, there's a core question worth solving that doesn't center on who should be fired or not fired, but centers on how the powerful among us can help those who need help. We can answer that without anyone losing their jobs. We just have to keep asking it.

Anyway, did you see Facebook?!

Here's the latest web weaved on Saturday, one cleveland.com wasn't going to write about until it rose to the level of being denied by a public figure. So here's the attempt to guide you through what's happening.

If you thought your aunt and your cousin were going at each other on Facebook over that latest political rally, wait until you see this. But, first, previously, on the Facebook diaries:

* Former ESPN reporter Brett McMurphy broke a story July 23 about Zach Smith's past domestic allegations. He broke another story on Aug. 1 with Courtney Smith, his ex-wife, talking about those allegations, and what Ohio State knew about them.

* On Twitter, Urban Meyer released a statement on Aug. 3 saying he followed protocol in reporting what he knew about Zach Smith to Ohio State in 2015.

* Thursday, Jeff Snook, a former college football reporter and author of several college football books, quoted Zach Smith's mother and Courtney Smith's mother saying that Zach Smith had not abused Courtney Smith, and that she had said she would take down Ohio State.

* Friday, Snook wrote on his Facebook page, "FYI College football fans, another bombshell story is coming... if it can be proven - and it is HUGE, having national ramifications." That's a reality show-level tease.

* Saturday, Snook wrote a story that Texas head coach Tom Herman was the source that started McMurphy on the original Zach Smith story.

* Soon after, McMurphy wrote a story that Courtney Smith's mother confirmed that she sent text messages to Zach Smith in 2014 accusing him of abusing her daughter.

* Then, on Twitter, McMurphy denied that Tom Herman was his source.

For those who have asked for my response to Jeff Snook's claim Saturday: "I have never revealed my sources in my nearly four decade journalistic career & I am not going to start now. However, I will say unequivocally that Tom Herman was not my source."

-- Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) August 11, 2018
* Then, Tom Herman denied that he was McMurphy's source .

Via spokesman, Texas coach Tom Herman tells me about the Jeff Snook story: "It is absolutely untrue. Neither I, nor anybody in my family, has ever communicated with Brett McMurphy about the situation at Ohio State." 1/2

-- Brian Davis (@BDavisAAS) August 11, 2018
* Then, Tom Herman's wife denied that she was a source.

Nope, wasn't me either! pic.twitter.com/OUjbn5iOJv

-- Michelle Herman (@belletjh) August 11, 2018
* Then .... is there anything else?

There is a dispute within the Smith family around this very difficult issue. For example, Courtney Smith told McMurphy she is currently estranged from her mother. That is a family matter. Though Zach Smith said this is entirely a family issue, a woman claiming domestic abuse is not that. It's reasonable for a community to reach out.

There is a dispute between Snook and McMurphy, who are writing opposite sides of this story on a social media outlet with no editors or oversight.

McMurphy has tweaked parts of his story along the way without officially correcting the record. That's an issue. But the heart of his stories about Courtney's claims have come with photos and text messages.

Snook presented detailed quotes from the family on Thursday in a way that addressed the big picture. But he came back on Saturday with two anonymous sources blaming Herman, and no other backing.

As she has along the way, Urban Meyer's oldest daughter, Nicki, on Twitter liked mentions of Herman being named as the source. His second, daughter, Gigi, retweeted stories mentioning Courtney Smith's alleged claim to take down Ohio State.

Urban Meyer has been understandably silent since his statement on Aug. 3, but his family is making its opinion known.

And none of that matters.

No matter how the story started, Ohio State's investigation of how Meyer and Gene Smith handled this will determine what happens. On Saturday, the Columbus Dispatch reported that Zach Smith will speak with Ohio State's investigating team on Monday or Tuesday.

Tips start stories. Tips can come from people who want a wrong to be addressed. Or they can come from people who may gain from a story.

I'll say that several days before McMurphy's first story on Zach Smith appeared on July 23, a Twitter account tagged several reporters, including me, asking why no one had looked into a 2009 Gainesville, Fla., police report on Smith. I followed the account and planned to look into things, but McMurphy beat me to it. He later said on a podcast he'd been working on the story for several weeks.

That account and that tweet have been deleted.

So someone knew about Zach Smith's past. They wanted it known. He was never charged, but it does matter how Ohio State dealt with Smith. Maybe Urban Meyer and Gene Smith did exactly what they should have done.

Ohio State is investigating.

The rest of us, I don't know what we're doing anymore.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I don't know. I think that most of us are of the mindset that all people deserve a fair trial. There are just a very vocal few who have convicted two men of a crime before all the facts are in.

It's hard to debate w/them because they immediately pull the "victim" card, as if we don't care about true victims.


I happen to think they also have an anti-Ohio State bias.


WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
So, you think people should be convicted of a crime w/out a trial and/or before all the facts are out?
Not even close to what I said or what was so lame about your comment .

But to the subject matter, nobody is trying to convict Urban of a crime, and probably not Zac Smith either since they have had the case since 2015 and did nothing with it.


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Don't know how reliable a source they are .... but they showed up on my Twitter feed.

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Hearing rumblings Urban Meyer will be reinstated tomorrow. Hopefully this fiasco will finally come to an end.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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As he should be.

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I hope so. The cops figured out a long time ago this lady is a loon. I didn't think it would take long for an investigation to come to the same conclusion.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I hope you're right.

What irks me is that some folks will forever associate Urban w/supporting a wife beater.

Once you're accused, you are guilty in the eyes of the ignorant and uninformed.

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hes back


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
hes back


Source?


<><

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Originally Posted By: jaybird
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
hes back


Source?

Buckeyes Sports Talk
&#8207; @CSTOhioState
12h12 hours ago

Hearing rumblings Urban Meyer will be reinstated tomorrow. Hopefully this fiasco will finally come to an end.


And Bruce Feldmen (CBS) on Colin Cowherd says he hears Friday they will re-instate


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: jaybird
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
hes back


Source?

Buckeyes Sports Talk
&#8207; @CSTOhioState
12h12 hours ago

Hearing rumblings Urban Meyer will be reinstated tomorrow. Hopefully this fiasco will finally come to an end.


And Bruce Feldmen (CBS) on Colin Cowherd says he hears Friday they will re-instate



Kyle S. Lamb
&#8207; @kylamb8
11h11 hours ago

Gonna rephrase: Atty for Zach Smith has 'predicted' an announcement tomorrow of no suspension or termination for Urban Meyer and Gene Smith and domestic abuse training on FB.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Thanks! I was having trouble finding anything


<><

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Originally Posted By: jaybird
Thanks! I was having trouble finding anything
thumbsup


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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This is how I thought it would be for Urban at least. Good news.


WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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jc

the AD and urban should be fired immediately.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By: Swish
jc

the AD and urban should be fired immediately.


I suspect we’ll find out why it didn’t turn out that way in due time. Too big an issue for details to be withheld.


WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM
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Originally Posted By: MrTed
Originally Posted By: Swish
jc

the AD and urban should be fired immediately.


I suspect we’ll find out why it didn’t turn out that way in due time. Too big an issue for details to be withheld.

Because city leaders will overlook bad behavior of their local football/basketball team. No one wants to be the guy who causes recruits to back away because so and so is criminal.

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I saw an unverified screenshot of a text that says he's innocent.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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Originally Posted By: jfanent
I saw an unverified screenshot of a text that says he's innocent.
was it from a direct source? I noticed the news that Zach Smith's DUI was also kept underwraps, even from Urban. Weird that no one neutral would want to share that news.

Look, I've met Zach Smith, talked to him a few times. I think he's a great coach, smart guy who understands the position, and a nice enough dude. That said, I'm not going to defend a woman beater getting fired.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
jc

the AD and urban should be fired immediately.


I thought you were against public lynching?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Yet you have no proof he's a woman beater.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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OJ was innocent also .... rofl ...




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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: Swish
jc

the AD and urban should be fired immediately.


I thought you were against public lynching?


I am.

I’m for public guillotine, though.

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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
OJ was innocent also .... rofl ...



So was Casey Anthony.


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Why do u think Urban should be fired? ... that would be my biggest question to u ...

When it happend at Fla. he sent him to counseling ... i have no probs with that ... hitting a women or a child is the #1 way to get my dander up .... he was a kid ... what he did was horrible ... i’d Rather not turn his life upside down and fire him ... counseling is a good option IMO ...

Then its real muddy water here ... a lot of he said/she said ...

So your that confident he was a wife beater and Meyer knew enough about it he should have fired him? .. is that your stance ... if not, what is ...

The biggest question I would have for the other side ...

What did dude do that was a fireable offense a few weeks ago .... cause she got a restraining order against him? ... thats enough proof to fire a guy now? ...

And dont tell me when u add it to all the other stuff .. as there is not on ioata of evidence anything ever happend at those incidents ... as ya’all have pointed out MANY MANY TIMES in this thread ... u can’t fire him w/o proof ...

Yet it seems thats just what they did ...

I have no clue what really happend here ... just think the two sides are interesting ... and Meyer is a POS SCUMBAG either way ... if he knew about this .. it’d just make him a scumbag in another aspect of life ...




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My step dad beat my mom, and the army allowed him to stay in with no disciplinary action.

I take this personal, and I have a major problem with people who knowingly hire and/or keep scumbags like that on their staff.

Maybe I’m biased.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Yet you have no proof he's a woman beater.
Except his is own word.

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You may be and that would explain it.

The issue I have is whether or not he beat his wife. And also whether Meyer reported it to those above him as is called for.

It seems that the police thought she was making it up. Her own mom said she didn't really believe her. I'm not disagreeing with you IF these things are proven to be true. However I'm not going to end up judging someone given the things that we really don't know whether they're true or not.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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And if it's proven to be true, how will you live with how you treated the victim in this ordeal?

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I haven't treated her in any way. I stated what seems to be the conclusion of local law enforcement and that based on the information we have it's unclear what the truth is.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I'd like to see a source to where the police doesn't think that she's credible. I would imagine spreading baseless rumors against the victim, is objective and neutral treatment.

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When a female contacts the police on multiple occasions concerning domestic violence and no action is taken, that speaks volumes for anyone who is listening.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
When a female contacts the police on multiple occasions concerning domestic violence and no action is taken, that speaks volumes for anyone who is listening.
Do you have any first hand experience of witnessing this? often times it is the norm.

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I have seen how much the laws have changed and how much differently it's handled today than in decades past. How much more seriously law enforcement deals with it than in the past. In the 70's and 80's often times unless there were obvious signs of extreme violence it was pretty much dismissed. Pre 70's it was even worse.

I've known people who have been through this. From both sides actually. I've known women who have put up with a pattern of abuse. I've also know women who have been vindictive and simply tried to destroy men with false allegations.

That's how I know for a fact that it can work both ways.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
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