DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Optimism: Why this time it’s DIFFERENT!!!!!

TALENT

This time we have it ... its there, no reason to be afraid of it ... I understand most of you have had unrealistic expectations for most of the last 20 years so you’ve been burned pretty much year in and year out .... saying i’ve never been accused of being even a little optomistic would be an understatement ... i’ve Been tabber’s alterego when it comes to the rose colored glasses thing ... *LOL* ...

There is absolutely no reason we can’t win 6 - 8 games ... NONE ... its actually sad I’m this excited and thrilled cause i truely believe we have a shot at 6 - 8 wins ... im thrilled at the prospect of going below 500 ... thats really sad .... but its a hell of a lot better than thinking we can win 3 or 4 games witch has been the case for the last 3 or 4 years ...

Be as skeptical as u want ... the FACTS are the FACTS and the TALENT is there ...

Last year we had enough talent to win 3 or 4 games if we had even below average QB play ... so were not coming from the place a winless team normally would as far as talent goes ...

And we added a

- QB that is below average - average and is a MAJOR UPGRADE from last years debacle ....

- a WR that is coming off 3 straight pro bowls in only 4 years (so he’s young) and could prove to be one of the very best in the game over the next couple years ....

- took a shot at a 1st round talent in the 4th rnd at WR ...

- an upgrade at RB in Hyde and Chubb ....

- an upgrade at RT ....

- basically an entirely new secondary including the #4 pick in the draft who will hopefully turn into a shutdown press corner ...

- a damm good LBer in my book no one is really talking about ...

- one of the best gunners in football no one really knows about or is simply not talking about it ....

We also added one of the most well respected OC’s in football ... that was HUGE for a couple reasons ....

We now also have a HC and ONLY A HC ...

To me the most amazing part of the BS that goes on in this place over Hue is how IRRELIVENT IT IS ... Hue has a NEW JOB ... who gives a crap about last year ... HES NOT IN THE SAME JOB ... ITS A DIFFERENT JOB ...

All i gots to say is ... GOOD LUCK HUE ...

Dawgs ... i get it ... u been burned before cause of your unrealistic expectations ..... well its time to be as optomistic as one can be over the prospects of a 6 - 8 win season .... and for us ... well at least me ... I’M EXTREMELY EXCITED ....

That talents there dawgs ... come join me on the

Isle Of Optomism where the skies always blue and the waters always warm ....

I think this team is more talented. No doubt. I also think that bringing in vets to help lead is a positive. I am not so sure how great Haley is. He had Ben, Bell, and Brown and perhaps the best OL in football.

I agree w/much of what you say, but will provide a couple of counter-points.

--We are weaker at LT.

--We are weaker at LG.

--We do not know if we are better at RT, but we won't be worse, so this point isn't very big.

--I think we are weaker at RB. We have two similar guys in Hyde and Chubb. I actually think Hyde is the better back, but neither are as good as Crow.

--I think we are going to have some issues w/our defensive tackles. They got moved too many times.

--I think that having a losing culture is hard to overcome. You used to disagree w/me when I said it would be an issue and you probably still do. But, I played and coached. It's hard to overcome epic losing.

--I see potential problems that will come from the media and the fans. There are too many in both bases that will nit-pick everything Hue does and try to undermine him. That's a problem. I can also see there being a true QB controversy, especially if we struggle out of the gate. And our early season schedule is pretty damn rough.

So, while I agree w/you on many points and am not disputing most of them............I can see that we still have a lot of issues and the potential for some huge problems is scary.

Our final predictions aren't too far off. I'm saying we win 5-6 games.

I mostly agree with both of you. We've improved greatly at most skill positions. We got weaker on OL, and I'm not sure we've improved at RB yet.

This is as good a team as we've had in a long time. Our last good team was 2007 with Pettiness first year second. I think we are closer to the 07 team In skill. Now it's down to execution.

Yes, the talent is upgraded but let's not forget that Jimmy and Huey are still in charge. They can do a lot of damage.

I'll get optimistic when the Browns cease to be a clownshow.

The Browns will only cease to be a clownshow once they have two back-to-back seasons in which they win ten or more regular season games and at least one playoff game in each year. The last time they accomplished this was 1986 and 1987.

Wake me up when it happens.

Rip van "Grumpy" Winkle signing off...

the future seems to be looking up.
the front has some bright guys in it. thats never happened since 1999.
the front office has had guys who thought they were smarter than what
they really were.

but optimism can be mistaken for blind love for the team.
every draft pick is great.this guy is a steal.
this free agent is gonna be dangerous.
blah blah the rest of the AFC North is weaker we are so much better.
the list of overhyped players and teams are endless for the past Browns teams
heck I.read some picking the Browns for the playoffs last season.
alot Browns fans forget every other AFC North is making moves too.

I think the Browns will be very competitive in most games at home
the road is different.
but a losing culture you cant change in 1 season not when youve lost every year since 1999 except 2.

The Jaguars hadn't had a winning season since 2007, until last year.

They went from allowing 400+ points for 5 straight years, to only 268 last year .... and from putting some things together on offense.

I don't know if the Browns will completely turn things around this year or not ..... but there are some promising factors ..... the defense as a whole .... having a very good rotation on the DL .... 4 starter level LB .... and quality DBs.

On offense, we have 2 quality QBs, some potential superstars at WR, what should be a solid OL, a potential superstar TE .... to go along with quality RBs.

I also think that we have a front office that will continue to look for quality players throughout the season, either on waivers, in free agency, or via trade.

I am encouraged by the addition of Haley to the coaching staff. I think that he can be a real ..... jerk ... on occasions, but he definitely knows his stuff. I am glad that his presence will allow Hue to be the head coach/CEO.

I feel better about this season than any other in quite a long time.

Damm ... cant believe i forgot that one ... it was going to be one of the big ones and i forgot ... *L* ...

Another HUGE reason for Optimism .... and this one also plays right onto the losing culture u astutely mention later ... (big word for me ... u impressed ... *LOL*) ...



True ... but he was well respected before he got there ... he was brought there for a specific reason with ben and he got it done despite Ben fighting him every step of the way at first ...




Good ... i have never once learned when all someone did was pat me on the back and tell me what a great job i did or how right i was ... i prefer learning and that comes with “constructive criticism” or in this case u articulating (im re-entering the business world and need to start typing like it .. guess its time to lose the .... *L* ... ). Your differences with my view points.



Yup



Dude, whats the first word in the thread title. Sheesh ...

He wont be worse. Only upside here. Can you give me that? *L*


We disagree here. I think Hyde is a better back than Crow. I hadn’t watched the game when I made this post last night. I watched it right after I made the post. You were right, Chubb looked slow and it wasn’t all on the OL. I thought he got better as the game went on. Let’s see if it was a rookie seeing his first action or if its going to be something he can’t overcome.



Pre-season game 1 was not encouraging. I did not expect that. Let’s see what the next 3 weeks brings.


I never disagreed with you. I just didn’t agree with the difficulty of overcoming it in todays NFL and we went out and took the necessary steps this offseason IMO. We brought in a ton of talent and it was guys with 4 or 5 years in the league that came from winning org’s. TT, Landry, Randall, Hubbard. Not only are Landry and TT vets that have had some success but there both OUTSTANDING LEADERS that are teaching are pups how to be pro’s and as you well know those habits are what lead to winning.

You know way more about this great game than i do but every once in awhile even a blind squirrel finds a nut, this may be one of those times.



I think Hue gets the year and that the thief showed his commitment to him by not firing him last year. Dorsey seems to like Hue and that goes along way in getting a fair shot. It may not work out that way but i believe Hue gets a fair shake.



The QB controversy ship sailed the second we took a QB at 1. As soon as we did that it was on. I see no way Baker can overtake TT simply based on experience. With that said if were 4 - 8 after 12 games then I believe there is reason to believe we will see Baker.

TT’s an experienced vet, he would be real tough for any rookie to beat out.


I agree. I’m optomistic not un-realistic.



And there u have it ... as usual when its all said and done we basically agree but you wouldn’t know that from our debate along the way ...

Diam's positivity is incredible! It's like he's had a religious experience (or a Landry experience).

I will say this: it's the most upbeat I've been about our team since the preseason in 2008 (remember when we were expected to take a huge jump, were given 5 primetime games, etc) ... and that year we fell on our face.

Anyways, I'm excited about the improved WR corp and QB room (that's huge). Good early returns there.

Our secondary still concerns me, as does our OL (Corbett wasn't good against NYG).

RB is a concern as well ... them and the OL go hand in hand.

Do we win some games? Definitely. I just don't know if I'm ready to predict more than 4.

I with you. Dorsey did an OUTSTANDING job bringing in Vet's. Many of whom are WINNERS...And that ties into Vers and this Culture of Losing thing he keeps harping on. And it all started with 3 moves.

Trading for Taylor when we KNEW we were going QB with the #1 pick even though at the time we didn't know WHO that QB would be.

Pulling off the Landry trade.

Ridding ourselves of Kizer and getting Randall. Then cleaning house of the JUNK at QB we had. That's actually 4 moves, but who's counting.

All of that and we STILL have the MOST Cap Space in the League. That bodes well going forward.

I'm going to give Sashi and Haslam some PROPS here because they DESERVE IT.

It was TOUGH. Actually BRUTAL, but it was needed. What Sashi did and Haslam LET HIM DO was excellent. Picks out the Ying-Yang and even MORE Cap Space for the Ying-Yang is what led to Dorsey being able to do what he did this year.

Virtually EVERY SINGLE UNIT on this team got injected with a Veteran WINNER.

Everyone is whining about the OL play Thursday. Dawgs, we had a BRAND NEW LT, LG, and were missing our starting RG. Not to mention a NEW RT. It ain't happening overnight. I expected exactly what we saw in Game 1.

This part is AMAZING to me. Looking up and down our Offense from QB to #1 WR right down to a 3rd Down RB, I'd go out on a limb and state that the Browns have virtually the MOST EXPLOSIVE Offensive talent and playmakers in the ENTIRE LEAGUE. And when Gordon comes back? WATCH OUT. Defenses CAN'T cover everything we can throw at them.

Excited? YOU BET YOUR ASS!

Only question to me is HOW QUICKLY these guys come together.

You like the 6-8 WINS? How's THIS for ya? Couple bounces and a PLUS TURNOVER RATIO and 8-10 WINS!

Think about THIS. Rothlisberger is on his last legs and Bell may very well be playing his LAST year it Pittpuke. Flacco has never been anything but AVERAGE. Dalton is Dalton.

In the VERY NEAR future we are looking at the QB's in the North changing to Mayfield, Dalton, Jackson and possibly Rudolph. I TAKE THAT ANY DAY. It's setting up PERFECTLY for the Browns to take over the AFC North. And Brady will disappear soon.

I would AGREE with this IF we had alot of players that have been here for 5+ years of this. But we DON'T.

The YOUNG GUNS that are here KNEW we were going to struggle the last 2 years. They're not stupid. They saw what was going on and that it would take TIME to acquire the TALENT needed to WIN.

They KNEW our QB Room was insanely STUPID and that we had very little chance to win.

Enter Dorsey and the accumulation of a massive amount of VETERAN WINNERS.

IMO this Culture means NUTTIN TO THESE GUYS NOW!

I have a question for you. Did you watch the Hard Knocks episode?

I take ONE pre season game & the talent pool we have assembled and come up with ---

The first string D should hold it's own . When Coley gets back on the field and all fouR LB's get the feel for each other we will be ok ( maybe not great ).. Back - ups ???

The DB's are an area that will need to develop as a unit as the season progress's .. Gaines and Carrie don't seem to be bringing it at this point .. Are some interesting young'uns in the mix right now .. I think we can put a stand up starting 4/5 on the field for game day..

Don't dare talk about the QB group for fear on jinxing them .. Wr's will " Give them something to talk about.... " Improved TE play ( well maybe not blocking ) brings us to the OL and RB's .. Think I will just chill a bit and see just how good this Coaching is , or isn't .. Pre Season game three seems to be the next evaluation stop for me .

There was no doubt in my mind that OL would be an issue this season .. The Team had very few options ( Draft was OL short ) and Free agents just not available ( Solder . eh )

I also have a question for u if i may?

I’m looking for someone to drive the ferry from the shores of Lake Erie to the wading pool and from the wading pool to the

Isle of Optimism where the sky is always blue and the waters always warm ....

And after that fine response I’d be honored to have u on board. If Petey’s in I have to let him be captain as he has nautical experience but i would be honored to have you as either the driver or maybe the greeter. Your choice dawg, let me know as I have a feeling these jobs will fill up quickly as the pre-season progresses ....

Yes I did.

Referring to Landry lighting up the WR room?

Welp, here's MY thoughts on it.

Part Knocks Play-up to the cameras.

He was talking about Practicing. Nothing about slackin' off ON THE FIELD. Practicing even if you're sore and hurting. I liked it, but the guys that are sitting on the sidelines who aren't hurt bad enough to not go on a Sunday are there because HUE CALLS THE SHOTS to practice or not. He's always like that. No big newsflash. He err's on the side of caution all the time.

Haley don't like it, but Hue's calling the shots.

I think there were a few examples.

The Landry tirade was one. I think that he was also talking about guys sitting out when they didn't need to.

The comments from the RB coach and Haley were another.

The multiple comments coming from the coaches about us being soft are another.

I am not saying we can't overcome the losing culture and I already mentioned that bringing in the vets will help w/that. However, it simply can't be dismissed. I played the game. I coached the game. It's way bigger than most people think.

This season/team is only different when we win 8 games. I say 8 because winning 6 or 7, while a big improvement over last year, is still under .500 and is a losing season. We are known as losers. Going 6-10 doesn’t shake that label.

I think we’ll all take 6-10 over 0-16, but losing more than you win is still terrible.

I have optimism for this year, but I have no expectations.

Yes - this year does feel different. I'm going to talk in generalities for a moment.

I thought it felt different under Sashi ... for a different reason. When we hit the off-season with Sashi and when we drafted and traded, it looked like we had a plan. Instead of knee jerk reactions and being the team to react ... Sashi and his FO executed the Draft like professionals. We can debate how successful we were - but it did feel different than Farmer and many of the previous regimes.

This year feels different because we have a plan - but this time it is for the team. Sashi left the new regime with a lot of flexibility to do a lot of different things. By and large it feels different because the moves we've made seem to be smart and address specific needs in the team and with each move they seem to generate 1 of 3 things: Talent, Competition for a starting spot, or quality veteran leadership .... In some cases like Landry you get all 3. In other cases like some of the CB acquisitions like Gaines and Co you get Veteran leadership and competition.

You can't fix every single position on the team in one off season. But man we've improved some key areas an absolute ton. The two areas of deepest concern to me are OL and interior DL. Neither should be so chronic that it's the reason we lose a lot of games.

Positionally - and again in generalization - QB is much much improved. A quantum improvement. Light years away from Kizer, Cody and co... RB is perhaps a wash - let's see Chubb and Hyde play a few more games before we make that determination (and see if Hyde can stay healthy)... WR is another area of quantum improvement (even if JG somehow doesn't play it's still much better than last year. TE - improved blocking and a 2nd year athletic freak who potentially could take a giant leap forward (especially with superior QB play) ... OL is weaker on the left side of the line and it was always going to be that way when you lose a 13 time pro-bowler who is destined for the HOF. Right side of the line ... is the same or maybe even better. On D - DL is basically the same minus Shelton who was a space eater but not an impact player. LB we have added a capable Vet in Kendrick. CB we have improved out of sight. Safety we have also improved ... I am not sold on Peppers but not having him at FS 30 yards deep is a huge improvement regardless.

Yeah ... this is different. I don't know if it's 5 wins or 8 wins different. But it's got a lot more potential GOOD things that can happen than bad things.

Ok. Mouth.

What would Mr. MISGUIDED have done?

We tried to ink Solder who is nothing special. We SMARTLY passed on Mcglinchy. We took Harrison as an UDFA. We signed a former #2 pick in Robinson. We moved Coleman and he isn't panning out. Not surprisingly due to lack of lateral and feet.

WE DID NOT draft Corbett to be Thomas's replacement. Not sure where you dreamed that up. And don't bother diggin up a link where Grossi said we did cause we didn't. It's much more likely that Corbett is here to replace Zeitler and that contract next year or stay at LG if Bitonio pans out.

Quit stretching the truth. It just so happens the 2019 draft is said to be Strong at the top for LT AND DT. That's PERFECT FOR US.

Now. What would Mr. MOUTH have done? And if you keep harping on Mcglinchy at 4 it shows your ignorance.

Actually, FORGET IT MAC. KEEP LIVING IN LA LA LAND ON YOUR OWN.

DIAM. Sorry man. Shouldn't have engaged him. I'm now DISENGAGED from Mac.

This is an OPTIMISM thread. Carry on.

Bitonio will hold his own at LT. The rest will need time to gel like every year before we know what we have. Now if we can't run the ball like others by reg season game 3, we're in trouble.

Interesting post ... lets take a look at it in chunks ....



The past failures fulfilling phase 1 of a burned by over expectations dawg ....



These are very valid reasons for the fact your more upbeat about this team in over a decade .... and u should be more upbeat cause when u break this down and look at what happend in the QB room ... that alone is reason for major league optimism ...

Do u agree or disagree with one of the two pillars of my foundation that with even an average QB like TT we would have won 3 or 4 games last year?

Upgrading QB in the way we did is just not upgrading a room. It’s adding multiple wins in the W column all by its lonesome. Do you agree or disagree with that?



Valid concerns ... once again lets break it down and look under the hood for a sec ...

Lets start with the secondary ... i have many questions also ... but regardless of how those questions are answered we know this for sure ... we will be able to actually play defense this year ... im not sure what we played last year .. it was the ultimate bend but dont break D but it broke more often than not ... *L* ..

I’m pretty sure both our corners wont be playing 10 yards off the recievers and start back pedaling at the snap ...

I’m pretty sure Randall won’t be playing 30 yards off the LOS unless its a pooch punt type situation ... *L* ...

Ward is a HUGE UPGRADE over anything we had last year ....

The rest of the corners ... well #2 may not be better but 3 and 4 will be upgrades .... we’ll have nickle and dime coverage that don’t include LBer’s ... ....

The secondary will be improved ... we will at least be able to play an actual NFL D this year ...


And this is where the math don’t add up ... but thats OK ... i’m Almost done with construction on the wading pool ... its for folks that see the HUGE IMPROVEMENT but are still having trouble with the math due to past let downs caused by unrealistic expectations ...

I got your back dawg ... wading pool should be ready soon til your ready for the

Isle of Optimsm where the skies are always blue and the waters aways warm ....

...

U must be that very very very rare individual that has actually gotten the toothpaste back in the tube at least once if u think thats gonna keep mac from replying to u ...

While I'm optimistic in comparison to years past, I'm not going bonkers about it. After two years of a complete tear down I don't believe Rome was built in a day.

Our OL is a huge question mark and I'm not sure our secondary is as "fixed" as some would like it to be. Gaines most certainly looked a step behind and that concerns me.

Let me state where my optimism stands at the moment. We have made great strides in year one of our rebuilding process. It didn't take much to surpass where we have been talent wise the past few years and we certainly met that goal. There is more work to do moving forward and after watching the moves made this off season, I feel more confident that we have the people in charge to rebuild this team than ever before.

IMO we are climbing up the ladder. We're not at the bottom like we were but we certainly haven't made it to the rooftop level yet either. Somewhere in the middle of it is how I see it.

U wanna start getting musical my fellow dawg .... well .... heres how i feel about this year ... feel the excitement my brothers and sisters, feel the excitement ... seriously .... this is worth checking out in and of itself ...







There’s plenty of room on the

Isle of Optimism where the sky is always blue and the waters always warm ... come on in dawgs ...

U FEELING GOOD .... ...

j/c

Kind of another concern I have is our pass rush. I think a lot of us know what Myles Garrett SHOULD become ... but will he? Same goes for Ogbah, although not with as great of expectations.

Garrett still hasn't done anything; it's all potential and expectation.

Kendricks should help with pass rush ... but we clearly won't get much from the interior DL

I sure hope so. I'd be happy with a .500 season at this point.

Garrett was very good last year when he was on the field.

Diam '

I really cant add much that hasnt already been said about why we should be optimistic and why we should temper that enthusiasm . I have the same concerns as everyone about our OL and running game.\

But touching on the losing culture thing. Here is my biggest fear. We for the most part are excited, the players seem excited, the coaches and front office seem excited. There even seems to be some buzz nationally about the Browns. So we come out week 1 and The Steelers want to put us in our place and smack our azzes. Then all of a sudden it becomes, " just the same old Browns, nothing has changrd" and the players and coaches start to buy into that.

I don't think it was all that cool to scream at mac. Let's keep it real.

I was curious as to how others view the Browns. I did a search for NFL power rankings. Here are the first 5 I saw:

ESPN: Browns were 31st.

NFL.com: Browns were 31st.

Bleacher Report: Browns were 28th.

Don Banks: Browns were 27th.

Yahoo Sports: Browns were 32nd.

Perhaps mac isn't as clueless as you claim? Perhaps some people on here are overrating the Browns because they are fans of the team? Perhaps you guys are smarter than everyone else in the NFL world? Who knows? But, there is no need to twist off over it.

I also would like to add [and I've been saying this for years and it has been consistently verified] but it is dangerous when the fans have such high and/or unrealistic expectations. Reality sets in and those same "fans" start screaming that people need to be fired.

The reason this season is different,the answer is simple.
We have gone thru 3 seasons of god-awful football,the likes of which have never been witnessed before.Therefore the expectations are extremely low.Sure we are more talented,but are we talented enough to even compete in our division,I don't see it.
I expect a 4 win team,if that gives you reason for optimism,so be it,but 4 wins will be cause for heads to roll.Then we'll be starting all over again.

All I ask from you my friend is that U have one of your kids take a pic of your face and the expression on it next game while u watch OUR competent QB play ... thats all i ask from u sir ....

U know me all to well my friend ... first word in my post was ..

TALENT

I forgot to mention my 2nd pet eve .... and so did u ..

GOOD FEET ....

Diam, I love your optimism friend ... I prefer *Hot* or Cold, over Lukewarm water though ...

Go Browns!

I'm guardedly optimistic, get it? Guarded... my two biggest areas of concern at this time are running the ball and stopping the run. Doing both consistently. You can see the improvement in the team in terms of execution, energy, organization and leadership. We are definitely headed in the right direction. Its too early for me to predict our record but I believe we'll have tangible success.