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https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/politics/west-virginia-supreme-court-impeach-trnd/index.html

The West Virginia House impeached the entire state Supreme Court
Doug Criss-Profile-Image
By Doug Criss, CNN

Updated 1:51 PM ET, Tue August 14, 2018
From left, Allen Loughry, Robin Davis, Elizabeth Walker and Margaret Workman
From left, Allen Loughry, Robin Davis, Elizabeth Walker and Margaret Workman
(CNN)Lawmakers in West Virginia did something Monday night that might be a first in American history: impeach an entire state Supreme Court.

The West Virginia House of Delegates' impeachment of the justices on the state's Supreme Court of Appeals is an unprecedented move spurred by an escalating scandal in the state's judicial system. But West Virginia Democrats charge it's just a ploy by Republicans to put more conservative judges on the bench in the state's highest court.
The court's justices -- Chief Justice Margaret Workman and Justices Allen Loughry, Robin Davis and Elizabeth Walker -- are accused of failing to carry out the court's administrative duties and wasteful spending during office renovations.
They were impeached on 11 articles of impeachment, dealing with wasteful spending, maladministration, incompetency, neglect of duty and potential criminal behavior, according to a press release from state House Speaker Pro Tempore John Overington.
The votes on the articles of impeachment fell largely along party lines in the Republican-led legislative body.
The House also OK'd a resolution that publicly reprimanded and censured the four justices for their alleged conduct.
"This is one of the saddest days in my 34 years in the Legislature," said Overington, a Republican who presided over the impeachment proceedings. "It has become clear that our Supreme Court has breached the public trust and lost the confidence of our citizens. This somber action today is an essential step toward restoring the integrity of our state's highest court."
The justices' fates are now in the hands of the state Senate, where they will be put on trial on the impeachment charges. West Virginia's Constitution requires a two-thirds vote in the Senate to remove a justice from office. It's not clear when the trial will happen.
A surprise retirement
On Tuesday morning, Davis announced her retirement from the court, and she chastised Republicans for going through with the impeachment proceedings.
"What we are witnessing is a disaster for the rule of law, the foundation of our state, and indeed our own society. For when a legislative body attempts to dismantle a separate branch of government, the immediate effects, as well as the precedent it sets for the future, can only be deemed disastrous," Davis said in a news conference. "The majority members have ignored the will of the people who elected the justices of this state. They've erased the lines of separation between the branches of government."
Democrats accuse Republicans of using impeachment as a vehicle to give GOP Gov. Jim Justice a chance to ultimately replace the justices with his appointments, so the timing of Davis' retirement is key.
Under West Virginia law, a justice who quits or is removed from office with more than two years left in his or her term and less than 84 days before a general election can be replaced by an interim justice who will serve until the next election cycle, in this case until 2020, according to the Charleston Gazette-Mail. Davis, who said her retirement was effective Monday night, stepped down with 85 days until the election. That means her interim replacement will only serve until a permanent replacement is picked by voters in the 2018 fall election.
If none of the remaining justices quit by the end of Tuesday, the governor will appoint the seats for any justice removed by the Senate vote and those interim justices will serve until the 2020 elections, CNN affiliate WCHS reported.
West Virginia's Supreme Court of Appeals comprises five justices, each elected to 12-year terms, though now only three positions are currently filled.
The governor accepted Davis' retirement and thanked her for years of service to the state.
An earlier retirement
The impeachment charges come on top of earlier federal criminal charges against Loughry and Justice Menis E. Ketchum II, who retired from the court in late July, just days before he was charged with federal wire fraud.
Loughry is accused of taking a historically significant desk, called the Cass Gilbert desk, to his private home for personal use. He also is accused of using a government vehicle and submitting mileage claims for reimbursement, as well as using a state vehicle and credit card on personal trips.
Loughry was also indicted on an obstruction of justice charge related to a pending federal grand jury investigation.
Loughry pleaded not guilty to the charges and was released on bond, according to court documents. He is suspended without pay and prohibited from hearing cases during judicial disciplinary proceedings, according to the court's website.
Meanwhile, Ketchum, 75, is accused of using a state-owned vehicle and fuel credit card to travel between his home and a private golf club.
A hearing in the case is scheduled for August 23, court documents show. US Attorney Mike Stuart announced that Ketchum has agreed to plead guilty, according to CNN affiliate WSAZ.
CNN has placed calls to Workman, Loughry, Davis and Walker and is waiting to hear back.
CNN's Eric Levenson and Amanda Watts contributed to this report.

Power at all costs.

so, something about this bothered me:

They were impeached on 11 articles of impeachment, dealing with wasteful spending, maladministration, incompetency, neglect of duty and potential criminal behavior, according to a press release from state House Speaker Pro Tempore John Overington.

____________

"potential criminal behavior". what does that mean? cause that could be interpreted a ton of different ways, by a ton of different people.

i dunno whether this is right or wrong, but were there any criminal court cases or something that went down?

its the same thing i said with Trump. impeachment is only good when you have something to actually impeach over, like federal charges.

i see they will be put on "trial" for impeachment charges, but thats only for impeachment, not actual charges that can lead to jail time.

Fake ass power grab. Don't think for a minute that it amounts to anything real. The GOP is off the hook and going to start a civil war or usher in fascism. They are hell bent on destroying America.

Fake ass power grab?


W.V. Supreme Court Justices:

Allen Loughry. Republican. Charged in June with 8 counts of, basically, abusing finances.

Robin Davis - Dem. Retired/resigned hours after this impeachment.

Elizabeth Walker, Republican.

Margaret Workman - Democrat.

Menis Ketchum: Resigned in July before his impeachment.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/13/638252387...e-court-justice

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli...ment/944619002/




Republican, democrat - they ALL got impeached (or, rather, are under impeachment)

2 of them 'resigned/retired' when facing this.


But, it's a power grab? By who?

"with 8 counts of, basically, abusing finances."

is that a legal term?

I don't think so.

But, if you read the links, you'll see the charges.

yea i saw the links.

it seems odd, cause if you look at the npr link, it seems like the charges were selective.

look at this part:

Workman, Loughry, Walker and Davis have all been impeached for failing to carry out their administrative duties. Loughry, Workman and Davis also were impeached for paying retired senior status judges more than the law allowed.

Davis and Loughry were impeached for the use of state money to renovate their offices — but Walker and Workman, who spent less on renovations than their colleagues, were cleared of impeachment charges over the expenses.

______

thats why i said originally the charges for impeachment are odd, especially since one would figure that there should be some criminal charges being hammered out.

I don't know. I haven't seen the 'specific' charges towards each.

But I find it odd that 2 of the justices resigned/retired upon hearing of the impeachment possibility/charges.

And I don't know this, perhaps someone smarter than me will look it up: If you resign before being found guilty (IF any or all are found guilty) do you still get your benefits?

And, if you don't resign, but are impeached, do you lose your benefits?



Edited to add: Look at the post I replied to, about this being a fake .... power grab.

oh we see eye to eye on that.

"im innocent...but imma resign"

yea, sure you're innocent.

jc

As I see it, Loughry spending $363k in public funds to renovate an office is absurd. Davis manages to top that with $500k in renovations. Also that $32k couch looks gross. You should see it.

There's alot of finger pointing going on, especially toward Mr. Canterbury source

WV is the only state in the union that has no oversight over court budgeting according to that link. Hmm.

Now from a political point of view, the biggest issue I can see is that the house looked suspiciously slow in moving on this issue. It's suspicious that they approved this motion mere hours before a deadline that would allow a special election for judges. So now the governor will appoint a whole new court? Convenient. How the governor responds to this will demonstrate whether this was a power grab by the republican led executive/legislative over a democrat led court, or whether it was legitimate response to overspending. Considering two of the judges spent significantly less than their peers in renovations, there should be some proportional response here imo.

By the GOP. Can't you read? And don't start pitching BS false pretenses. You can build a case against anyone for anything if you work hard enough to do it.

There are so many signs that Trump is corrupt it boggles the mind. But we are watching Trump and company methodically dismantle the DOJ and FBI leadership investigating him doing this exact same thing. Smear, plant doubt, make ridiculous moves like this, and repeat the lies every day until all the people that are to damn stupid to see anything for themselves without having it explained to them on Fox News are parroting the lies!

It's not rocket science! This is how democracies die and dictators rise! This is how fools get duped into giving up their rights and letting hateful destructive people rule them. There are so many warning signs that you literally have to be blind, deaf, and DUMB not to see them!

So yes this is a power grab by a party that has sold out to a wouldbe tyrant and will stoop to any low to discredit and remove any opposition that could hold them in check. They want a GOP kangaroo court that will rubber stamp whatever moves the tyrant wants them to make, PERIOD.

But you go ahead and bury your head in the sand, pretend to be this righteous virtuous guy who is just validating the facts that the other side is spewing... Your blinders are so damn effective that you don't even know they are on! This is the reason I treat you with NO RESPECT most days. You have all but lost your ability to think critically on your own. You have joined the ranks of the parrot army! Who can respect that?

Impeachment of all of them is why it's a power grab. They want to stuff the court with Trumpian GOPers. Under any other circumstances this would be investigated by an inspector general or state level equivalent. Charges would be recommended by the AG if merited, and this would play out in the legal system... NOT A POLITICAL MOVE LIKE THIS.

A lot of the stuff that I saw on this is not in the article above.. stuff like each justice had recently renovated their office for about $400-500K each... one justice had purchased an expensive antique desk for his home office with government money, several of them were accused of inappropriate use of government vehicles for personal use.. there were other things but I can't remember them all.

From the other article I read, there was a lot of shenanigans going on with the way the justices were spending a crap load of government money on themselves.

I knew some would immediately latch onto the power grab by the republicans angle.. and I was pretty sure I knew who would be first but he gets a little weird when you mention his name, so I won't.

Was impeaching them all the right thing to do? Heck, I don't know.. if what I read was true, they definitely seemed to be taking a lot of financial liberties with their position..

Could some of it be an excuse to oust the court and replace them with a bunch of right leaning justices? I guess it could. These were elected justices, not appointed. Now the governor gets to appoint the replacements.. and the governor is a republican...

My thought is that they probably deserved some type of discipline over what they did.. but the way the WV officials went about opens themselves up to the scrutiny they are getting...

Hey if they abused their office, then remove them. But not politically by impeachment, give them due process and use the LAW. That's why we have laws. Now if the law says you MUST IMPEACH them, then I am wrong, but I highly doubt that is the case.

And you damn sure don't remove them with impeachment until all the facts are in. For all we know, they had to use or lose their budget. I'm pretty sure they don't have blank checks and no accountability checks in place. I've seen so many smear campaigns by the GOP lately I don't trust anything they say or do AT ALL!

This reeks of what the GOP is trying to do to Rosenstein and just did to Strzok.

I see what you did there by mentioning not mentioning me.

That is Rich!

You calling for Due Process!

After hanging people for years on accusations alone.

When did I ever hang anyone? A verbal dressdown or proper troll whacking does not equal hanging. Silly little man.

I know.


I'm not aware of any other way to remove an elected official from office, even if that office is the SC of the state.

Now, since the story broke, more details are coming out but the one thing I haven't seen yet (can't say I've looked real hard, it's probably on the WV official state legislature website, is how the vote went. Was it completely partisan? I don't know)

One other thing I have learned, the SC basically controls it's own budget with no oversight.. so if they spent $3 million renovating their own offices in a state that has been struggling to stay afloat, then that might be pathetic and stupid, it's not illegal or against the state constitution... so I don't see how that could be grounds for impeachment.

From the OP Aritcle:

"The votes on the articles of impeachment fell largely along party lines in the Republican-led legislative body."

That says a lot to me right there.

Or maybe, just maybe, they are all crooked........

Still not a political matter, but a legal matter. Impeachment vote was divided across party lines... What does that tell you? Do you think it means liberals are just okay with judicial corruption, or could it mean something politically partisan is going on?

I believe they are ok with it.

I also believe that R's have voted to impeach Right winged judges - you realize not all these judges were leftys right? They voted to impeach them all. So there that tidbit you left out.

Also do you think that its not weird the leftys would not vote to impeach someone who is accused of breaking the law, when ya'll have tried to impeach trump for ALLEGEDLLY trying to break the law?

I think it means that already there has been judges charged and put in jail in the past with these same types of charges.

I don't the law, or the state law's, but perhaps you cannot charge a judge. Or a sitting one at that, so you would have to impeach them first. IDK, just throwing that out there.

I think there is a lot of smoke to this potential fire, and it absolutely should be dealt with. I live in WV, I can tell you first hand, this has been something been talked about for a long time, is almost a running joke about the corruption.

Well that explains everything.

Care to explain what you mean by that?

It explains everything. Nor does it explain everything anymore.

I hear you go through a lot of napkins with your goo.

Just a quick hypothetical question for you.. the governor of West Virginia has switched parties several times and has donated to both.. a couple years before the election, he switched back to being a Democrat, ran through the primaries as a Democrat, won the governors race as a Democrat... 7 months after being elected, changed his party affiliation to being a Republican.. then the SC thing happened...

Now, all things being equal, if he had stayed a Democrat, and sought to impeach the entire SC.. as a Democrat, do you think that party line vote would have been a lot different?

I would think the big fear is that you take away the will of the people and place that will in the hands of a single representative. The governor would select every Supreme Justice and they would remain there until a new election in May 2020.

The spending outrage isn't new. It was uncovered last year. Impeachment inquiries were placed by democrats in Feb, to leave ample time for a special election this year. It's curious that the Republican led delegates waited until the week of August 14th (the deadline for the special election clause) to formally file the inquiry and send it to the Senate.

I read something recently, not sure where, that contradicts that.. it said that a couple of the justices would be elected and a couple would be appointed..

And that they have a rotating election with a 12 year term, some due in 2020, some in 2024.. or something like that.

Are you saying the governor gets to appoint the whole SC but then it can be changed at the next governors election?

My information came from here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/west-virginia-impeachment-supreme-court.html

CBS says similarly:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/west-virgin...court-justices/

And just for balance Fox News also confirms:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/...-impeached.html

If you have information stating otherwise I'm all for it. My reading here is that the Gov would pick all of the replacements (if impeached) and they would serve until the next special election term in 18 months. Maybe I'm wrong and that's only for some, and others would be up for a proper election sooner.

Either way, it is concerning to me that the precedent in this case is to move to impeach the entire court without also weighing the gravity of what that means for the people of WV. The people should have a voice in any court cases that come across that bench. If the governor picks an entire bench, it will call into question any cases brought before it during that time. The precedent scares me. I know I don't live in WV, but these things have a way of being named in precedent in other states and even sometimes federally.

That makes sense.. tbh, I don't live in West Virginia so I'm passively concerned but not enough to do a ton of research to find out.


Very well stated and I completely agree.

Nope.

impeach all politicians