DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Hard Knocks 2

Just finished watching the episode. It started off a bit painful, but man, that s... lifted me up. It was awesome!!!

Some takeaways:

--Taylor is a cool cat.

--Coleman seemed dumber than a box of rocks.

--Callaway isn't very smart either, but the dude has real potential.

--The so-called punishment now makes more sense.

--Hue is a great leader. I cringe while watching these because I know a certain segment of our population are waiting fot him to say something they can pounce on, but man, the dude was all over it in this episode. He freaking stood out as a man w/a plan and the balls to see it through. Jump on the Hue wagon, y'all........

--Haley is what he is, but I liked a lot of what he had to say.

--I saw Hue and Haley working together.

--I love Myles Garrett.

--The other dude, what's his name...Cajuste or something like that.........it was a cool story w/his dad.

--Gregg Williams is very shy and soft-spoken.

--Baker looked calm in the huddle.

--Y'all, this team is starting to come together.

from other Hard Knocks thread....

I know some hate Hue... but Hard Knocks has made me like him even more. The relationship he has with his players is golden.

For all the folks who questioned practices and the message he's sending to players.. Do you feel any better after tonights episode?

Random notes:

- Was corey coleman crying to Hue when he questioned about playing with the 2's? Looked like it.

- I'm cool with Myles and his poetry, but HBO.. please don't waste time filming this. I need action! I did like how Garrett checked the o-line. He brings it EVERY play.

- I like Cajuste.. I guess he's supposed to be the feel good story guy you'll care about if he gets cut.

- Crazy to see how Callaway was acting the day after his cop incident, as he didn't tell anyone about it. Guilty conscious all over his face. The sit down with Hue and Dorsey was interesting to watch.

- That moment when Nate Orchard told Njoku he needed to hit the jugs was priceless.. Njoku had some kind words for him, lol.


- I don't care for their personalities, but I do like how Gregg Williams and Todd Haley get into their players. Williams goes all in. Haley can go in, but flip it and be nice too.

Can't wait til next Tuesday. Absolutely hate that the HBO GO app didn't air the episode til 11. smdh.

LOL...............I just asked you to post that over here.

Awesome post, my man. You freaking nailed it.

Orchard needs to worry about Orchard.
6 7 career sacks.
hes a preseason standout then during the regular season disapears like
Amelia Earhardt.
Hue is a very compassionate coach who enjoys trying to turn people around
hes void of any ego.
damn shame Sashi Brown left him with 2 flat tires snd no seat and said hey Hue go compete in the Tour De France

My hype level is as high as it has ever been. There is so much to like about this team right now, and I honestly feel like we're a dark horse for a 2018 playoff push.

TT is good. Pretty damn good. Our receivers, especially when Gordon comes back, are so good. RB ok. O-line OK. DTs ehh. DEs good to great. LBs are top 10% in the league. CBs I think are a top 10% unit as well.

It's happening. Get ready. Sort of sad we're only going to see TT for a year tops, but I'm so excited to watch this man.

Go Browns.

am going to watch it this morning; good reviews on the EP 2

Ep.2 was pretty positive overall I thought. Liked the cameo of Cribbs. This staff is soft at times but hard ass where it counts, good balance.

New leaders are emerging and the team is starting to gel. I liked what I saw, pretty much all of it.

Just watched. Good episode. I really like our two QBs and their personalities.

Hue drew the line with Callaway ... if he screws up again and Hue keeps him around, Hue looks like a very weak leader. Making hard lines is good in theory ... until you have to hold true to them.

Njoku is a key to this team IMO ... good early returns this year.

Funny how some guys are rarely a focus: Duke, Bitonio, Collins, Kendricks, Ward, Schobert, etc

Everything we learned from ‘Hard Knocks,’ Episode 2 at Browns camp

Yoga, poetry, puppy dogs and some incredible behind-the-scenes footage that made for a vintage “Hard Knocks” episode.

We’re recapping everything we learned from Episode 2 of “Hard Knocks: Training Camp with the Cleveland Browns.” Pretty much everything below would be classified as a spoiler.

We’ll have a poll later to determine whether David Njoku’s gloves were pink or purple.

-- The brains behind “Hard Knocks” opted to hold their Corey Coleman footage from the first episode in order for the story to develop. That decision made for a jolting way to start the second episode, as Coleman, who showed off his shoe collection to the “Hard Knocks” cameras at an earlier point in training camp, is shown inside Hue Jackson’s office venting his frustrations about a demotion to the second team. “If you don’t want me to play, why don’t you just trade me?” Coleman asks. The Browns did just that, sending him to Buffalo for a 2020 seventh-round pick.


-- Browns players are shown expressing their shock at the return Cleveland received for Coleman. Meanwhile, wide receivers coach Adam Henry is tasked with getting more out of a young receivers room that includes rookies Antonio Callaway, Damion Ratley and more. “Young guys, you’ve got to be on this,” he said. “Be famous or be forgotten.”

-- A heavy portion of the episode focuses on Callaway, who was cited for multiple infractions early last week during a road stop in Strongsville. He did not inform the team about the incident, leading to more frustration from general manager John Dorsey and Jackson. “This isn’t college football,” Dorsey said. “This is the National Football League.” Callaway lays out his story to Dorsey and Jackson and later apologizes to the team in a meeting. “You can’t take a chance. You can’t put yourself in that situation. You can’t put us in that situation,” Jackson said. “You’ve got talent but talent ain’t everything I’m looking for. I’m looking for you to become a man.”

-- Ultimately, the Browns opt to punish Callaway by making him play nearly every play in the preseason opener against the Giants. After Callaway catches a 54-yard touchdown pass, offensive coordinator Todd Haley urges Jarvis Landry to take Callaway under his wing.

-- Remember last week’s episode when Jackson implored No. 1 pick Baker Mayfield to follow the lead of Tyrod Taylor and start his daily routine even earlier? The message was heard loud and clear. Mayfield is seen studying the playbook shortly after 6 a.m., by himself inside the tight ends room. At a practice last week, Mayfield caught up with Browns legend Jim Brown. “You’re smart enough,” Brown said. “They tell me you’ve got the right attitude.”

-- With the coaches being mic’d up for the game, we learn the series in which Mayfield threw the 54-yard touchdown pass to Callaway would have been his last no matter what. Nice way to finish up your first-ever NFL action.


-- It wasn’t all fun in New York. Even though the Browns surrendered just three points in the first half, defensive coordinator Gregg Williams laid into his group for what he perceived was a lack of effort. “Young guys, this is not college football anymore,” Williams said. “We need to understand and we need to make a decision that I have a focus and I have an energy to go out and play our way.”

-- Jackson was not pleased one bit with the team’s pace at a particular practice, bringing it to a halt. “When did we start walking out here?” Jackson asks, leaning on veterans such as Joel Bitonio and Christian Kirksey to help deliver the message. Perhaps inspired by advice passed along by Taylor, Jackson shows the team cut-ups of players loafing in practice as a way to drive home the message. “That’s not a team that looks hungry and urgent in everything they do,” Jackson said. “You can not practice like this and be good.”

-- This episode’s deep dive centered on tight end Devon Cajuste, whose dad, Gregory, has dealt with a slew of health problems since Devon’s teenage years. Gregory’s had three heart attacks, a stroke and a tracheotomy during that stretch and was originally given five years to live when Devon was 13. Now 25, Devon is three years out of Stanford and still looking to make his first active roster. “If the world is weighing on you, we’re Cajustes,” Devon said. “And we’re fighters and we do not quit.”

-- We got some brief insight into Myles Garrett’s passion for poetry. He likes to compose his poems during his spare time, whether it be before bed or during lunch. “I was a boy who liked to write before I was a man who liked to hit people,” Garrett said.

-- Njoku, meanwhile, has turned to yoga as a way to find his center and picture himself making the great plays that are expected of him. It certainly worked this particular week -- or maybe it was all the JUGS work after some hearty ribbing from his teammates following a practice full of drops -- as he found himself on the receiving end of two touchdowns in Cleveland’s preseason win over the Giants.


-- Count center Anthony Fabiano among those who were skeptical of Carl Nassib’s financial advice last week.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/eve...medium=referral

Hard knocks episode 2 takeaways;

1) Baker Mayfield is learning to be a pro from Tyrod Taylor and Drew Stanton. It’s vital that every team has a veteran QB to pass on the knowledge of how to be a professional. These aren’t things you can learn from a coach.

The QB position has more intricacies than any other position in any sport, and the learning curve is the greatest. Having that veteran presence is priceless.

Jake Delhomme was there when Colt McCoy was a rookie and Colt picked him up every morning at 5:30am to get in early to the facility to get their work in. It’s building good habits like that which only a vet can teach. Tyrod is doing that for Baker

2) Todd Haley possesses the qualities of some of my favorite coaches in any sport; tough but fair, direct, demanding, honest, funny, even keeled. He also picked up a lot of things from working with Bill Parcells, including one of my favorite quotes of all time...

“get some shoes that work!” So obvious, insulting, and funny, but says everything in a simple way that even football players can understand.

3) Carl Nassib: stop insulting the RULE OF 72! It’s simple, 72/your interest rate is the number of years it takes for your money to double. S&P has averaged 9.8% over the last 90 years, but if you miss the big up years it’s way less. I personally think assuming 7% is safer

4) The offensive line’s “Hard Knocks Harry” fine is paying off. The OL room has a kangaroo court where they find each other for things that happen in the room. This year, if you do anything to intentionally get yourself on the Hard Knocks Show, it’s like a $650 fine.

Thus, those boys have avoided the cameras like the plague! While I understand, it’s a shame because that group is the funniest, most fun, most interesting, and smartest room on any team. And that’s an unbiased take

https://twitter.com/joethomas73/status/1029570142475378689

Thanks GratefulDawg for the recaps. I haven't watched it yet but the big story themes are good to know about in advance, IMO.

j/c

I just found the first episode on youtube, if anyone is interested:

2nd episode is on youtube also, just watched it.

I know that some posters won't like this, but Hue is rocking it. It's pretty obvious to see why his players like playing for him.

He's fair, but doesn't tolerate nonsense. He has that open-door policy and encourages them to come talk to him and to not go behind his back. I think he balances toughness w/fairness. It's pretty impressive.

I like Hue. This is his best chance to show that off. But at the end of the day, he'll be judged on W's. So he better get them winning right away or adios amigos by season's end. Sad but true. I hope he takes this group to the playoffs.

So that's how the Coleman thing came down.. Hey, he wasn't working they way they wanted him to, expected him to and paid him to,,,, Then he complains?

I'd have preferred they get more for him trade, but hey, in the end, it's addition by subtraction.

Njuko is really a beast and it appears to just be getting better and better.

Callaway is someone I can't tell if he's shy or not bright or if, because of the incident, was he just scared of what might happen?

I thought the way that Dorsey and Jackson handled that was pretty good.

Jackson seems to be the right guy for this. I believe that Dee and Jimmy Haslam saw that (something that we on the outside couldn't see) and decided that he wasn't the problem, talent level was.

It appears that, at least at this moment, that Dorsey was the right guy to bring in to find that talent. Looks good so far.

Man, Jackson got ticked off and showed it. I like Taylor telling him to show them the video of their actions..

Love cool Tyrod. The only emotion I've ever seen come out of him was after he threw a TD to Njuko last week.. That got him excited... LOL

Mayfield got the message!

Garret is a beast.

Cajuste seems like a good kid.. That thing with his dads health is kinda sad. He's the kinda guy you want to root for.

All in all, we got some good insights into how this is coming together. So far, I'm pretty impressed.

Go Browns

You're right and I agree w/you about the wins. They have to come. I was just saying that Hue has been very impressive w/how he balances toughness w/being a player's coach. It can be a really hard thing to pull off, but he is doing a great job of it.

That was a good post.

--Yes, Baker did seem to get the message. You could see the clock when he was studying the playbook. It was right around 6:15 and he was already settled in and studying.

--I also liked how Dorsey and Hue worked together when meeting w/Callaway. They worked as a team. Callaway looked like a little puppy dog when he looked at Hue as Hue was nodding his head in support of what Dorsey was saying. LOL

--And yes, you could tell Callaway was in some turmoil on the field the day after his arrest. That was priceless.

--The Tyrod scene w/Hue was cool. I think Tyrod is showing why he is a good leader.

They took it down already. Hopefully it will be back up again.

First episode I sort of asked about the ho-hum nature of practice. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed it, Hue got where I was day one….where are you supposed to be? Stop slacking off.

Really good to see Baker take Hue’s words seriously about his prep. I was slightly concerned when Hue had to tell him to come in early but it makes sense now it was day 1, Hue set the tone on the first day for the #1 pick.

How dumb does Corey look and sound. Seems like a nice enough kid but when I hear Garret talk and Coleman, it’s like they are from two different planets.

Coleman not fighting through routes, being dominated and then complaining about running with 2’s? Definitely seems like a guy who got paid and is done. Sad.

I can’t remember being more excited about a player as I am Myles Garret, he has it all, as complete a young player as you will ever see.

Mayfield has that awe shucks disposition on the field, it calms guys you can just see it. He makes guys laugh with his off tilt comments. “How you doin?” such a ridiculous but funny question to a guy you know is getting his butt kicked in Chubb LOL

Callaway seems like a disaster waiting to happen. It will absolutely force Hues hand now that out there if he messes up again.

Cajuce is one of those hard knocks “cut guys”….Fells, Njoku, Devalve….yeah

Christian Kirksey has so much more value beyond his play, he is a great player to have in your locker room.

Tyrod is a quality veteran. Makes me a little uneasy that he is telling the head coach to show player mistakes on film, like how does Hue not know to do this?

I actually think the presence of cameras helps hold guys accountable. You better believe Baker wants to keep his image ... he KNEW he had to get into the complex early, or else Hard Knocks would show it.

I’m watching it right now.

https://youtu.be/vsQqg9HOJhU

Before i read the rest ... im sure your not ready for the Isle yet .. but it sounds like maybe your ready for the wading pool ... give it a shot bro ... u got nuttin to lose ... unless u hate blue skies and warm water ...

Had to ask before i read the rest .. figured it was a good time as whats said from here down may not go in the proper direction ... *L* ...

Can’t wait til the link to youtube is available ... hopefully its farther down in the thread ...

I wanna watch ..

Let me know if your ready for the wading pool ... if u are I’ll send kwhip right over in the ferry ..

Hard Knocks director Tim Rumpff tells us that crews followed Corey Coleman to Buffalo, and plan to have his interactions with the Browns Friday in episode 3.

https://twitter.com/KenCarman/status/1029710300377956352

Not just replying to you...

With some exceptions, I like Hue's approach to players during practice. I do think he's a little soft ala the exchange between Haley and him in Ep1, but the way he handled Mayfield getting in early, the way he 'reprimanded' Ward and the FS in practice when they were just chilling... I like that. It takes wit along with discipline to talk to players and convey "I'm in charge and you're not doing something right" and "I'm not an a-hole" at the same time in an environment like NFL TC. Just like vers said, hats off to Hue.

Regarding Tyrod telling Hue to show video, I have no problem with this. He's not telling Hue how to do his job, just making a suggestion. If anything, I like how two leaders of the team are bouncing ideas. I think it's just one of those things... Hue/everyone knows good ways to address something, it's just that someone needs to verbalize it in order to set things in motion.

good TV move

in terms of Tyrod "teaching" Hue ... I didn't take it as a negative. I always depend on my captains for a pulse of the team; sometimes they provide great insight.

You don't always have to DO what the players say/suggest, but hearing their side of it is not bad IMO.

Let them wallow in there own misery ... who gives a crap about them ... hue’s here and now he’s getting a fair shake ... u don’t need to defend him ... we all know the score ..

GOOD LUCK HUE .. go get um dawg ...



From everything i’ve Heard about him i was wondering what u would think .... actually i wondered how it would change your views toward him ... i knew you’d love his straight forward no BS approach ... just wasn’t sure how much it would sway u ... my guess is you’ll love that but stil not like him as an OC til he proves different ...

Also .. it made me think of something else and the internal dynamics on a team ... Williams and Haley are the PERFECT COMPLIMENT to Hue’s “players coach” style .... and i am not usually a fan of “players coaches” but Hue pulls it off ... the guys NEVER QUIT ... thats a testimony of their loyalty and respect for Hue ...

Anyhow ... THERE THE PERFECT COMPLIMENT to him .... every org needs it ... at least IMO its a plus .... and it’s HUGE to me ... no one else has mentioned so maybe its just me .. *L*



IMPOSSIBLE ... there mortal enemies ... ...

Hope Zamp’s involved also ... theres some O BRAIN POWER DAWG ...

How does this not excite U with TT at QB and Landry and Duke and Njoku and hopefully Calloway and Josh .. if we have Calloway and Josh ... LOOK THE F OUT!!!!!



I really want too .. and believe i will .... i want to see it for a prolonged stretch ... his ankles worry the ever living crap out of me ..


Hmmmm ... I know u love music ... whats your favorite “sunny day at the beach” artist and what songs in particualr ...

I’m gonna put it in the que on the Isle cause it sounds like your just a stones throw away from joining us on the ISLE OF OPTIMISM ...

A head coach either has to be very tough on his guys or have assistants do the job for him ... I think Hue has the latter.

It is a good balance IMO. Let's just hope we win a few games early so the players keep buying in

Thats just a smart thing to do in life as a general rule ... u should ALWAYS LISTEN to those in pretty much every area of your life regardless of what it involves or revolves around ..

Its simply SMART ...

Listening to those around U is a good thing ... them trying to cram things down your throat is an entirely different story ... *LOL* ...

https://twitter.com/BigTown_Brown/status/1029741117565222913

Thanks for posting it! I'll try to watch as much as I can before I leave (and they take it down again).

Hard Knocks lets you view Hue Jackson any way you want to: Doug Lesmerises

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Everyone knows, or thinks they know, Browns coach Hue Jackson a little more intimately now, how he leads meetings, how he swears, how he relates to players and how he deals with lackadaisical practices.

Here is but a sampling of the social media reaction, two random opinions that appeared back-to-back after my Twitter search of Jackson's name just after the second episode of this season's Hard Knocks aired on HBO on Tuesday night.

VIEW 1: "I couldn't have any more respect for Hue Jackson as a head coach. This man is impressive. Much respect."

VIEW 2: "Hard Knocks is not a good look for Hue Jackson. He looks like an incompetent head coach. No wonder they stink."

Frankly, view two seems a bit more prevalent, but view one is around. View two is not going to cost Jackson his job. I don't think even the Haslams would fire a coach during the preseason.

Hard Knocks is editing new offensive coordinator Todd Haley into a hard-edged, world-weary, no-nonsense, eye-rolling comic who dropped a bit in episode two questioning how any baby could be named Carl. People are loving some Todd Haley. Many are wondering if he's planning a coup to overthrow Hue.

Jackson has no such jokes, at least not in HBO's edit.

It only makes sense to give Jackson some benefit of the doubt in what you're watching because he's already been afforded that by his bosses, brought back for year three after one win in two years. But some moments have been jarring, a whiplash effect from Jackson telling his assistants last week that he's the one driving the bus, to this week taking advice on how to motivate his players from 29-year-old quarterback Tyrod Taylor.

Unhappy with the energy, Jackson called a huddle and asked when the Browns started walking around at practice. He asked veterans Christian Kirksey and Joel Bitonio when that happened. He told the team, "I'm not watching that (stuff) any more."

Cut to Taylor suggesting Jackson film practice from above and then show players walking at practice. Taylor believes showing it once in a meeting will get the message across.

Meanwhile, Jackson laments the state of things.

"We got baaaad habits," Jackson says. "Everybody ... Everybody so slow."

Cut to Jackson showing that practice footage in a meeting.

The true evaluation of Jackson should rely on how the Browns perform relative to their talent. Jackson's view of his 1-31 record is that he didn't have the talent to compete. Everyone agrees the Browns have more to work with this season.

"I don't care how much talent we got," Jackson says in that meeting, "unmotivated talent don't do (anything.)"

That's Jackson's charge.

If there are bad habits, if there is unmotivated talent, that's on him. He has the rest of camp to eradicate those habits and motivate that talent. My biggest issue with Jackson has been my opinion that he's viewed himself as a victim of 1-31, an opinion he disputes. But when he's telling his new veteran quarterback that the team has bad habits ... what's his point?

The true remnants of 1-31 are few. The Browns are relying on young players who need to find their way regardless of the past record and an influx of talent from John Dorsey's trades and free agent moves. This roster is not leaning on multi-year Browns who would have somehow been infected by one win in two years.

Through two episodes, we've seen Jackson fight something of his own making.

And it's a fight.

Corey Coleman walked in Jackson's office to complain about running with the second team and suggested the Browns trade him if they weren't going to play him. Jackson told Coleman, a player he had coached for two seasons, the initial first-round draft pick of his Cleveland tenure, to take it up with Haley, the offensive coordinator new to Cleveland this year.

Then Coleman got traded.

Some see that as Coleman getting what he deserved, as the Browns making a point. But what if Coleman hadn't said that? Would he still be here? Assume that we weren't shown the full Coleman confrontation, but would another coach have salvaged that relationship, attempted one more time to get something out of Coleman? Should Jackson's first reaction to Coleman in the moment (if that was his first reaction) have been to put that all on Haley?

There's disagreement of the Browns handling of Antonio Callaway, as well. Obviously, the Browns were right to keep him around.

What will determine Jackson's fate are the results. He hasn't been judged on results so far, and that's fair. My issues have been with his process. But after 1-31, doing the "right" thing won't matter if he's 2-14. So Jackson's in a tough spot.

He needs to seize control of his team, but with the humility of knowing he's not infallible. He needs to empower veteran coordinators Haley and Gregg Williams without looking like he's getting run over by them.

Whatever he does, the result needs to be right, because so much has already gone wrong. And even if Jackson had a riff on Carl Nassib's first name, he's past the point where anyone would credit him for a sly observation.

If Jackson, in year three, is concerned by bad habits, he should know where they came from. He knows it's his job to fix them. Maybe he can. Sundays will show us.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/08/hard_knocks_lets_you_view_hue.html

He comes off to me as just disinterested. IDK, i maybe wrong, but that's what i am getting. They are certainly not giving him much time on screen.

Yup, and has hands like them too.

He did not seem one bit sincere in his apology to the team. I think is going to regret his "2nd chance"

I find Hue to be a good man, but i still find him to be a horrible coach. That will not change until he can show me he can win, and make smart decisions on the field.

Haley is funny, because he to me is the opposite of Hue. I think personally he is a dbag, but i think he is great coach. I did get a feeling he truly felt something was wrong with Callaway, and was concerned, which surprised me.

IDK how anyone cant. But dude does need to stop going offsides

Cool story, and the kid has heart, but i don't see him making the team. Unless they cut Telfer. I haven't even seen Devalve yet, wonder why?

Greg is like haley personally to me (a dbag), and i think is boarderline like hue to me (coach-wise). I will give him the benefit of the doubt as he has been successful elsewhere, but i am losing patience with his defense gameplans.

Baker looked as tho he COMMANDED the huddle too. Very nice to see.

I am cautiously optimistic. The talent is much improved, but I still struggle to see Hue being able to put it all together to give us a great product on the field. I easily can see them going 0-4 or 0-5 to start the year still.

I love how he was having that conversation, and Tyrod is looking at him like, "You know I have the same name as an auto part, right?"

He was cut shortly after we signed Fells.

Tyrod looks good in 5 passes in a preseason game, lets not get crazy. He was benched in Buff, and still has a lot to prove. He is better than anything we had last year, I agree. But lets not build him a statue just yet.

Our receivers are much improved, more so than anywhere else on the field, yes.

No, not yet. We have no indication we can run the ball. Duke is good, but hes a rec. not a RB. Chubb and Hyde have a lot to prove. This is a big ? for me.

For something that was supposed to be our biggest strength last year, is now looking like one of our biggest ?. We cannot run block to save out life. Couldn't last year, and so far this year we cannot either. If you cannot run block, you will not win much come crunch time when you need to run a game down in the 4th.

I actually like Larry a lot. I think he is underrated.

If ogbah and myles stay healthy they maybe the best duel in the league, but those are TWO BIG IF's

See last comment about DE. Same applies.

I don't see that at all. Sorry, they are improved, but no way near the top level in the league.


I am sorry, but this will not happen. Do not be upset if we go 0-4 or 0-5 to start the year. We have a brutal schedule, a new Ocoord, a bad HC, a new QB on a 1 year rental, and lot of ? marks to go around. I like where the team is headed, but its just not near there yet.

Sorry, meant to type fells, brain fart. Thank you.

I don't think he beats out fells.